Newbie 1343: Boatsauce (Game Over)

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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:16 pm

Post by jon_h61 »

In post 773, thenewearth wrote:So what... Jason for OMGUS,
me for not pushing you and being an easy target
, patzer for everyone else's suspect?
When did I imply you were an easy target? No, I think it's more that teaching spiel, and the buddying up to Jason. After replacing in this far into a game, am I supposed to suspect only one person? Is that what you really expect a Townie to do? You three seem to be in a race to
look
the scummiest.

Jason, you remind me of Majiffy. Just because you come off aggressive doesn't mean you're not scum. Remember that scum are out to deceive us? If I do something scummy, does that make me Town? I mean, really? I can almost see you laughing all the way to the win.

My gut says patzer is just noobTown, but if you are, learn to count! :lol: It may save you a lot of grief in later games.
AND please ask for a claim BEFORE hammering.

I promise tomorrow, I'll do a reread and decide who to tunnel. I do have a bad habit of that, and have even lynched Town enough times to know it's not the end all. We are close to MYLO though, so let's see if we can decide the right lynch today.

More to come tomorrow.
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:50 pm

Post by Sober »

JASON ANALYSIS

I noticed in the past few days there had been conversation brought up concerning Jason's individual merits to being a strong player. In an order to, for a lack of a better word, affirm this theory, I've had more difficulty reading Jason than any other of the players present in this game, graveyard or not. The purpose of this analysis is to first and foremost to help me get a grasp on Jason's alignment. That said, I'd first like to make known the current foundation this read will be predicated on. His replacement into the game was extremely lackluster; disregarding that respect, he comes in aggressive and on smaller levels of magnitude, hostile. There's a snarky air that surrounds some of his comments, and a bit of some reactive element is present in some sense (see the way he reacts to a mere ). I can probably point out a few posts I thought that were Town (he had a couple that discussed the merits behind arbitrary motivations), but what I really want to get at is the on Patzer; this will be the comparison default by which I'll be comparing other cases he has made in different games as different alignments. This case is incriminates Patzer with superficial reasons. Unless I missed something, there is no motivation seeking. Jason accuses Patzer of backpedalling, but again, does not appear to consider if it appears reasonable from a newb-Town perspective. A later post (514) is an attempt to push the lynch through with a summary of bad reasons. Again, as of this point, Jason is not necessarily scum. This is the baseline for meta. The following argument with Patzer (517-567) maintains the tone in which he first identified himself in with dripping exasperation. Here's a few games (tried to select a few of the most recent) as both alignments (these will be Newbie games to preserve consistency with this game):

TOWN
:
Newbie 1342 - His early posts again start out hostile. His affirms his bit of a reactive nature. He seems relatively engaged in this game. I feel like his that game is reflective of the fact of how he's thinking more about motivation than on-the-surface aspects.

Newbie 1336 - Again, his first few posts give the impression that he's very involved with the game. He's a lot more logical here, and almost begins to lean apathetic before his reaction in . Most importantly though, his that game is almost
entirely
different in tone that the case on Patzer. He's more focused in this, more speculative, and more drilled in to the whole motivation issue.

Newbie 1321 - Seeing more logic in here as well. Wasn't so meaty, so I'll throw in another game.

Newbie 1301: Revenge of the Van - This is a game where Jason replaces in as Town. He replaces in, and right off the bat, refers to the motivation behind arbitrary actions. His first reads list in is reflective of just that. Pretty thoughtful play, and again, he's extremely involved in this game.

Overall: Jason's oftentimes is hard-engaged into discussion/finding scum as Town. This is extremely prevalent in his early game as Town, but sadly we don't have the option to see this here as he replaced into a slot. There's a myriad of general arguments that JasonTown makes on whether things are actually scum tells or not. He's not afraid of back and forth rebuttals, and doesn't shy in tone.

SCUM
:
Newbie 1309: Never Say Never - His play during the RVS stage here is a lot more sidelined. He's far less attached to this game as he is in any of the above Town games. Of course, this instance isn't really that significant because he replaced into our game right now, but I feel compelled to point this out. His play here is also far less confident/cocky than it is in his Town games. he is careful with hypotheticals on theory. There's a clear nosedive in the amount of motivation-seeking.

Newbie 1302 - Stark differences here and his Town games in terms of substance. Again, a lot of superficial reasoning.

Overall: As scum, Jason's less aggressive in refuting arguments. He isn't too capable of making the same, intent-analyzing, meaningful posts (that actually have a deeper depth to them) as scum. He is not readily available on the forefront of things happening, as he is Town; as a matter of pattern, his tone is slightly lower in "volume" as if to not attract that much attention. The arguments he tries to incriminate scum with are fairly weak here, but I've also seen that in a few of his Town games, so that leans more to a null tell for me.

This is my first meta case, and if someone sees something that I'm messing up on really hard, you need to point that out. The information above is open to interpretation, but from what I'm saying here, Jason is playing up to his Town meta. Granted, it isn't a clear cut reflection of Town meta, but it leans that more than it does Scum. I still have Patzer down as Town, so by PoE, jon is scum.
I won't be voting him because he's at L-1
. At the same time, I do not want a claim yet since I want a chance to have a brief look into his meta.
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:54 pm

Post by thenewearth »

Wow... you had the time to do all that?
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:55 pm

Post by Sober »

Forgot this:
Unvote:


And a *disclaimer* to the above: The town read is only a leaning town read. There is still a lack of motivation seeking that's available in a majority of his Town games that aren't available here. I'd heavily scrutinize Jason if I were in LyLo with him.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:56 pm

Post by Sober »

In post 777, thenewearth wrote:Wow... you had the time to do all that?

Not being able to grasp a specific read on someone stirs me up inside. :(
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:59 pm

Post by thenewearth »

I would never have the diligence to do all of that.

Even reading 1 game is a hassle enough for me.
Heck... reading a game I'm in, is a hassle.

Actually... I would not result to using meta unless it's personal experience (Playing with the person in the past)
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:45 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 775, jon_h61 wrote:
Jason, you remind me of Majiffy.
Just because you come off aggressive doesn't mean you're not scum. Remember that scum are out to deceive us? If I do something scummy, does that make me Town? I mean, really? I can almost see you laughing all the way to the win.


My foot was gonna go up your ass if it wasn't for the rest of the sentence >.>

In post 776, Sober wrote:
"Massive long ass meta post"


Jesus christ and here i was thinking my scum and town games were similar :eek:
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:16 am

Post by patzer »

In post 762, jon_h61 wrote:
Pedit I get to OMGUS
I'll read your post shortly.

Did you ever read the post?
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:17 am

Post by patzer »

In post 782, patzer wrote:
In post 762, jon_h61 wrote:
Pedit I get to OMGUS
I'll read your post shortly.

Did you ever read the post?

Ignore this, for some reason I thought #764 was towards Sober
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:32 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

Votecount 3.3


[2] jon_h61 (patzer, JasonWazza)
[1] patzer (jon_h61)

[2] Not Voting (thenewearth, Sober)

With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-04-19 08:30:00)
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:51 am

Post by jon_h61 »

In post 719, thenewearth wrote:Again... This is a newbie game.
Teaching the ropes to a newbie would be prior to any player that has experience in newbie games.
How can you teach someone whilst continuing to pressure them?
Doens't make sense. You can't teach a person under frustration of pressure. Unless that person has an IQ which exceeds the normal amount

I'd rather not coddle new players, when they leave Rome they'll be overwhelmed if we baby them too much here. Hit 'em hard to see their true colors. This teaches them to express themselves in a clear manner, or it's consequences.

In post 727, thenewearth wrote:And what more answers do you want? I gave you my answers and yet you shun them.
I can very much vote you for OMGUS and shit like that, but no... I'll be the mature one.

This makes you sound, um, like you're acting. The frustration, your buddying, the teaching before scumhunting, etc. I don't think your actions are sincere, which makes me think you're the remaining scum. If you want to OMGUS me, that's cool. It'll seal your fate tomorrow.

In post 729, thenewearth wrote:I keep saying that teaching priors pushing.
What part of that can't you understand?

Now get that phrase onto your little head.

Your wincon should come before teaching, even if you're the IC. But I believe you are playing to your wincon.


In post 746, thenewearth wrote:Yeah... I still don't think patzer is scum but... He's the best candidate to pressure so yeah...
Weak scumhunting, you don't think he's scum, but want to pressure him? The statement takes any pressure right out of any would be scumhunting. Again appearing to scum hunt without any real effort.

thenewearth wrote:I would never have the diligence to do all of that.

Even reading 1 game is a hassle enough for me.
Heck... reading a game I'm in, is a hassle.

Actually... I would not result to using meta unless it's personal experience (Playing with the person in the past)
A little buddying, and an excuse for weak scumhunting. No I'm not liking this slot much at all. If it were earlier in the game, I'd be on you like glue til proven wrong, and still may. This point in the game deserves a little caution though.

@ TNE You accused me of attacking an easy target (you) earlier. You may have said how much experience you have with Mafia, but for my sake could you please tell me. Mine is all on Mafiascum. A few games were eaten by tigers though. My wife and I used to do Murder Mystery Dinners which is vaguely like Mafia.

I don't want to vote til you respond. I don't want to get caught up in confirmation bias this late in the game. If you aren't scum it has to be Jason.
UNVOTE:
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:59 am

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 785, jon_h61 wrote:
Your wincon should come before teaching, even if you're the IC.


*bzzt* IC is a teaching role first, a player second, winning the game should never ever come before teaching the newbs properly for an IC (which is the whole point of having IC's)

If you [patzer] aren't scum it has to be Jason.


Oh dear did you just give yourself up on a silver plater?

Can i point out that you just had a massive back and forth with TNE, why would you bother arguing with her if she ain't scum?
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:27 am

Post by jon_h61 »

@ Jason I am bothering with her. I really want to hear what she says. That'll decide where I go from here.

I still disagree, you can help new players with acronyms, and the basics. Point them to the wiki, point out blaring mistakes their making, but they still need to see real pressure if they are to get Mafia.

"
If you [patzer] aren't scum it has to be Jason.
" No, I've decided patzer is Town, NoobTown but still Town. His frustration earlier felt sincere, even with the noobmistakes. It's TNE who concerns me. I still feel
you
might be pulling the wool over our eyes though.
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:28 am

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Dude if i was pulling the wool over your eyes you wouldn't notice (and this wouldn't be the living player list)
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:30 am

Post by JasonWazza »

*easily could have diffused the freshman wagon*

Anyway, jon is still scum, TNE can you vote him to finish this up?
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:43 am

Post by jon_h61 »

The good thing about being Town, you don't need to worry as much about being lynched. And others take your reads more seriously after the flip.
Let's see where this Day lands.
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:44 am

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 790, jon_h61 wrote:The good thing about being Town, you don't need to worry as much about being lynched. And others take your reads more seriously after the flip.
Let's see where this Day lands.


Lol i fucking wish they took reads more seriously after flips :P
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:13 pm

Post by Sober »

Pretty much gave up on meta-ing jon. I don't really think his posts this game have been too substantial to really get a grip on the slot's alignment via meta, so. It's either that, or I'm just feeling lazy today. Or both. Anyway,
I'm claiming intent to hammer
, jon. You should claim.

I think it's extremely likely that scum lie in { jon, Jason }. I don't think Patzer should ever be lynched. I don't really have much else to say right now.
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:28 pm

Post by thenewearth »

In post 792, Sober wrote:I'm claiming intent to hammer, jon. You should claim.


Well... Sober already beat me to it.

So claim please.
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:38 pm

Post by jon_h61 »

I'm just a VT, no big deal. CYA on the other side.
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:40 pm

Post by thenewearth »

Aren't we all... >.>
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:55 pm

Post by Sober »

In post 795, thenewearth wrote:Aren't we all... >.>

Why haven't you hammered? Do you believe the claim?
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:00 pm

Post by thenewearth »

Nope.

VOTE: Jon

Sorry I was "studying" for interview (forced by parents)
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:03 pm

Post by borkjerfkin »

Votecount 3.4 (Final)


[3] jon_h61 (patzer, JasonWazza, thenewearth)


[2] Not Voting (Sober, jon_h61)

With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

A lynch has been reached! Flip incoming.
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:06 pm

Post by borkjerfkin »

jon_h61,
Mafia Goon,
was lynched Day 3.

thenewearth,
Vanilla Townie,
survives.
JasonWazza,
Vanilla Townie,
survives.
Sober,
Vanilla Townie,
survives.
pazter,
Vanilla Townie,
survives.

Game over.
Town
wins!
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