Micro 148: 50/50 Mafia (OVER)

[thenewearth]

Also, using your anon vote to lynch me could horribly backfire, just saying.

Btw... This makes me think CE is actually town

[KX]

I like how you completely misrepresent and misinterpret what I've said. Want me to use quotes to prove it, or can we just admit you're wrong? Also, even if you weren't making a completely false case against me, I like how you go off of scum-hunting methods, when by your own admission the main reason for labeling me as scum, and as your main scum read I might add, is that I made a remark you "don't like" that you can't show is alignment indicative in any way.

[KX]

This, btw, is kinda exactly what I'm talking about when I say policy lynch them. I really can't tell if they're scum or VI, and they aren't helping at all. Factoring in the other choices, seems like a really good option.

[mothrax]

Forgive me for not quoting the offending matter, I'm not at my computer, but I see it. KX pushing TNE and then saying: I'm fine with policy lynching is teriscum. 2nd choice found.

[thenewearth]

that way we can make sure that the mafia cant outvote us with the anon vote

Wow what a softclaim...

FoS: Kid A

If we do that, we make sure the mafia aren't able to use their own agenda for the anonymous vote

??? 23 < 34, so why give a notice to only Kid A? Am I not important enough?

Also,

Vote: Alexcellent

Care to join the discussion, even if, as it stands, there isn't much?

And Happy Scumday D3f3nd3r!

also,

Vote: PemHel

, you've been lurking through this whole thing, care to add on?

@PimHel, I was already slightly irritated at the amount of discussion over what I believed to be an extremely simple topic with an obvious answer, I just didn't really express it until the second post. As for the fence-sitting with theNE, I'm honestly unsure at this point, hence the lack of a definite opinion.

@Hamlet, I was referring to the quick agreement of opinion rather then anything with voting, specifically in

Alright, Kid A, you're not looking so hot, man. What gives? Is there something you need to tell us?

At that point, I felt the accusations against Kid A were extremely weak, and was curious as to why you would sound persuaded.

Vote: Alexcellent

back to my original prod vote.

Prod voting

Wow, like, nothing is getting done. Anyway, time to contribute.

KX all your votes so far are prods, please say your top scumpick and why you think they are scum, even if you dont want to vote yet

Wtf was the point of saying this? And unless I missed it, I think the vote on me are srs votes. Maybe PimHel's isn't, but even so.

@PimHel/Zach, why the big deal over me keeping a prod vote? It's not like there's a wagon against you or something, so unless you can provide some other problem. Either way, since you insist, UNVOTE: .

So far, reads are as follows:

Town

Hyperion - I've got to be honest, at least from what I've seen, they seem to be the only smart person in this game. Most of their posts actually have meaning and are semi-helpful or hold a good point, so I'd say Town. Only thing I hold against them is voting me, more later.
PimHel - Mixed feelings, something seems off, but I can't say exactly what. Otherwise, they've made quite a few good points/observations, and so I'd say Town.
Thenewearth - As previously stated, I think I'm going to have to say Village Idiot, so barely town.
Kid A - They seem ok, however, they really haven't done much of relevance but defend themselves. They did that ok though, and I already mentioned #154, so I guess I'll go Neutral for now, I need to see more. However, if their contibution to things outside themselves remains horrible, Scum.
Hamlet - The interaction between heads is horrid, and I so no reason why if town they should keep who's posting a secret. In addition, what they've said separately is very minimal and pretty bad, so Leans Scum. Only redeeming thing I can see is the interesting RVS play, which led to something unique to start the game off with.
Zachattack - It seems like they've done very little, and his #87/89 about possible PR implication was strange to say the least, so Leans Scum
Temphdq - One Post. Nuff Said.
CityElectric - The lack of posting doesn't stand out too well, and their two most recent posts are extremely bad. This game really isn't that long so far, and it seems like it would be extremely easy to take a precursory glance at it and say a few words. A second post on them not being able to post is what really tips it. Leans Scum.

scum

All scums are inactive people

[KX]

@Mothrax, you seem to be implying that suggesting a policy lynch is scummy. Enlighten me on how exactly. It's one case were if a person is highly believed to be village and you suggest lynching them anyway, but considering the target, I think they've done quite a bit that could be considered scum as well. Yes, they could just be a VI, but they could not be as well. If you think I'm somehow trying to avoid saying they're scummy, and this is somehow a fallback so I can say "sorry guys, but hey, remember, I said they seemed village" if they flip village, then let me plainly state this. I have never read them strongly as town. They are scummy in my eyes.

@TNE, congratz, you pulled three quotes were I prod somebody. Forgive me for being obviously stupid, but how is prodding somebody scummy? I certainly can understand why prodding people isn't a reason to say the prodder is conf-town, but how exactly is it anti-town? If it's as been suggested that it's being used as a way to avoid making actual contributions, then once again, I can understand, but lets face it, you have three quotes. I have a total of 32 posts in the thread. I admit quite a few have little meaning, but what about the rest?

With regards to your quoting of my reads, yes, generally those who were more active are ranked higher, however, did you bother to read the reasons why? Those who were more active I found had more good points and things which I found to be village indicative, however, you, one of the most active players, was barely above a null read, and Hamlet, who was semi-active I believe, is quite low down. CE and Zach, who were inactive, are labelled scum for more then just being inactive, even if being inactive was a factor to it. Also, in retrospect, Temphdq should be above Hamlet, as I had no read on them at that point, but whatever. Just saying, if you bend the facts, you can make anything look true, but please examine in more detail. Also, if you don't have a at least general trend of people who do things are town, and those who don't are scummy, you're doing it wrong. Helping is town, and doing nothing hurts the town.

Summed up, your points (and all those against me) seem to be that I'm avoiding actually contributing, in ways such as taking the easy way of doing reads by saying activity=village. If you looks closer, the ladder statement can be found as only a generalization, and not the truth. As for not contributing, if you think I haven't done anything for the game, I don't even have words. Just read over the thread, or even my ISO. I present opinions, request information, answer questions, and ask questions of my own. Honestly, I don't know what more you think can qualify. Maybe I could have done more, but hey, as mentioned, I've been doing stuff, and I certainly don't see how I've done nothing.

[mothrax]

@KX going back and forth is scummy. It's wishy washy and implies you have some knowledge of her alignment. Is TNE scum or is she a policy lynch? Because there is a big diff.

[Hyperion]

So ZAch for lynch one, KX for lynch 2
VOTE: zach

[KX]

Personally I think it would qualify as a policy lynch, hence why I called it such initially, but if that term means something different between us, then fine, call it a lynch on somebody who I think has sufficient chance of being scum.

[KX]

btw, that's L-1, right?

[thenewearth]

Zach: Are you done meta-ing me? >.>

[mothrax]

KX still not impressed. You third to last post (drunk, can't bother looking it up) screams scum. Anyways. Hammer phlox. Or Zach claim. Whatever.

[KX]

Playing mafia while drunk, gj, totally not counter intuitive or anything. And we probably shouldn't hammer until a definitive anonymous lynch is chosen and agreed upon, unless it is needed since lack of time. Care to say why it's scummy once you've sobered up, or now if you can?

[mothrax]

It seems to me you are the definitive alt lynch.

And the way you interact with TNE is scummy because of the aforementioned reasons. Pushing a lynch on her while saying simultaneously "scum" and "would be happy policy lynching" is scummy because it allows you to come back after the flip and say "oh, just a VI, see, told you."

IMO TNE is cleared if you flip scum.

[KX]

Unless I missed something, you have four people who want me lynched. As voting myself is against my win-con, I won't do that. So while it's a reasonable assumption mafia alone wouldn't be able to outvote that, since I won't be going for it, and who knows how the other four will vote, plus some of you are probably scum yourselves, it would be entirely possible for mafia to take the vote with good coordination and prediction. If you get more, then alright, but for now, I think it's far from agreed upon. As for the argument you make, have I not specifically stated I find them scummy? I'm not sure how calling it a policy lynch as well means suddenly I can come after the vote and say something else. Also, all this is assuming they flip village, which they quite possibly won't.

As for the "aforementioned case" haven't I, you know, disproved that? If any arguments from it still stand, tell them to me.

[Hamlet]

Hamlet

- What's going on between the heads?

There's one read we don't agree on.

Oh yeah and it's you.

[thenewearth]

Or Zach claim.

Rather wait for a zach claim first

[thenewearth]

but how is prodding somebody scummy?

It's not the prodding that's scummy.
It's sticking to your prod votes and calling the inactives as scum is scummy.

[D3f3nd3r]

VC 1.3 (4/6/2013)

Zachattack (L-2) Mothrax, PimHel, Hyperion
Hyperion (L-5)
Thenewearth (L-5)
Kid A (L-4) Hamlet
Hamlet (L-3) Zachattack, Kid A
Mothrax (L-5)
CityElectric (L-5)
PimHel (L-5)
KX (L-4) Thenewearth
Not Voting (2) CityElectric, KX

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline is the night of 4/7/2013. About 36 hours!

Post 257's vote was invalid. Hyperion was already voting zachattack.

[PimHel]

Also, @All, thoughts on policy lynching TNE since all current options seems to be shaky at best and disputed, and TNE is undoubtedly a poor contributor who seems incapable of helping, is difficult to obtain information from, and the loss of whom shouldn't be missed?

I want to address this vote seperately. Mainly due to the 'all current options seem to be shaky at best and disputed'. You said to mothrax that nothing's been decided yet. Yet, you opt this, while being uspicious of at least theNE and CE.
This doesn't add up to me and is very scummy.

[PimHel]

@KX
Post #246 just screams that you agree with me and that it would make more sense to vote CE. 1. You admit that CE has read the game, so it's likelier for her to see the vote. 2. You admit she's scummy.
As for the WIFOM, if CE is town, it's scum who has to deal with it. Just think of some powerroles. What could happen if CE is powerrole X, Y, Z, etc. and survives the night? They have to think then if the worst possible outcome is the risk to take or kill her and get that risk out.

@Hamlet
So, apparently, you are mostly in sync now. Where are the reads and your thoughts on the latest discussions?

[zachattack]

Done meta on TNE. Won't vote there. Still like Ham for scum. Willing to vote KX for self preservation, I'm null on him though.

Won't claim under any circumstance in this game. Neither should anyone else just because its L-1. Hammer isn't necessarily death, so L-1 doesn't take on the same connotation.

[Hamlet]

@Hamlet
So, apparently, you are mostly in sync now. Where are the reads and your thoughts on the latest discussions?

Strong townreads on KX and mothrax, scumread on Kid A, null to weak townreads on everyone else but you.

Given that there's more than one scum, these reads will have to change. Working on it.

[thenewearth]

Done meta on TNE

What have you found?

[KX]

Also, @All, thoughts on policy lynching TNE since all current options seems to be shaky at best and disputed, and TNE is undoubtedly a poor contributor who seems incapable of helping, is difficult to obtain information from, and the loss of whom shouldn't be missed?

I want to address this vote seperately. Mainly due to the 'all current options seem to be shaky at best and disputed'. You said to mothrax that nothing's been decided yet. Yet, you opt this, while being uspicious of at least theNE and CE.
This doesn't add up to me and is very scummy.

Yes, nothing has been decided yet, there's nobody who even a minor majority believe to be scum. We still have yet to decide as a whole upon our lynch targets. Nobody stands out as obv scum, or has a great case against them. And, I personally, as a single individual, am suspicious and would like a vote on TNE and CE. Please tell me why this doesn't add up and results in you reading me as scum.

@KX
Post #246 just screams that you agree with me and that it would make more sense to vote CE. 1. You admit that CE has read the game, so it's likelier for her to see the vote. 2. You admit she's scummy.
As for the WIFOM, if CE is town, it's scum who has to deal with it. Just think of some powerroles. What could happen if CE is powerrole X, Y, Z, etc. and survives the night? They have to think then if the worst possible outcome is the risk to take or kill her and get that risk out.

@Hamlet
So, apparently, you are mostly in sync now. Where are the reads and your thoughts on the latest discussions?

And while I see you're point as well, if we say "alright, we'll give them one night, since that's when they would likely kill her" it should be a relatively simple decision for them not to kill her. OR she could actually be scum, and because of your thought process, we won't get around to lynching them ever, and mafia not killing them won't point to anything. Add onto that how mafia only has a 50% chance of hitting the desired target, and even if they do select her as a potential target, she might not get hit, and will face this situation once more, even though your best case scenario of them targeting her happened.