/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Tierce]

Tue 9 Apr 2013 22:04:45

Mine wasn't such a difficult question for you not to give it a quick answer when you logged in, at least to justify your reaction somehow and/or address Tammy.

VOTE: Shadoweh


CES is probably V/LA throughout the UK meet. Those votes on him are pretty useless at the moment.

[Faraday]

Day 4, Votecount 1

Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Empire, Llamarble, OhGodMyLife

Shadoweh (1) - Tierce

Not voting (5) :

Benmage, Cogito Ergo Sum, Deasvail, Shadoweh, Tammy

• With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 23rd of April at 3:59am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-22 22:59:59)
  
• NO ONE is V/la

[Benmage]

I'd say Deas is Town. Empire and Tammy are definitely Town.

That leaves Benmage

, CES, Llama, OGML and Shadoweh. Have to think about this game. >.>

Benmage..... The only one to lynch scum thus far.

Okkkkayyyyy

[Tierce]

I'd say Deas is Town. Empire and Tammy are definitely Town.

That leaves Benmage

, CES, Llama, OGML and Shadoweh. Have to think about this game. >.>

Benmage..... The only one to lynch scum thus far.

Okkkkayyyyy

Excuse me?

Yes, you were in the Nacho wagon. So were five other people. What was more, I was going off the interactions at the end of Yesterday for Deas and the really blatant obvTownness that Empire and Tammy have. Got a problem with that?

[Benmage]

I'd say Deas is Town. Empire and Tammy are definitely Town.

That leaves Benmage

, CES, Llama, OGML and Shadoweh. Have to think about this game. >.>

Benmage..... The only one to lynch scum thus far.

Okkkkayyyyy

Excuse me?

Yes, you were in the Nacho wagon. So were five other people. What was more, I was going off the interactions at the end of Yesterday for Deas and the really blatant obvTownness that Empire and Tammy have. Got a problem with that?

Yes?

See if you want to go off interactions and not just votes... Note who created, and pushed the wagon, when most for the majority of the day were content to ignore Nacho.

Whereas your obvtown pals didn't join until the final hour. Empire was pretty useless yesterday(Hi pot, its kettle again). And all three of you, "TET" may look town... but you guys haven't done much to help this town win.. other than look town, and buddy one another.

And I find it ironic that I, the sole person to find and succeed in lynching scum this game would still be in your PoE pool. What I'm trying to say is... getfuckingbetter.

[Benmage]

Tue 9 Apr 2013 22:04:45

Mine wasn't such a difficult question for you not to give it a quick answer when you logged in, at least to justify your reaction somehow and/or address Tammy.

VOTE: Shadoweh


CES is probably V/LA throughout the UK meet. Those votes on him are pretty useless at the moment.

Whats the worth in any vote right now outside of aiming to lynch someone....

D4 pressure vote

[Llamarble]

Eh Benmage, there are decent odds you'll still get lynched this game. Very high odds if you're scum.
TET / me are the only ones I can pretty much guarantee won't.

[OhGodMyLife]

Credit grabbing is scummy. Stop that.

[Tammy]

I think I might have a heart attack if benmage ever acknowledges the part anyone but himself ever plays in a scum lynch.

[Benmage]

I wouldn't need to point it out, if the level of play could put 2 + 2 together.

@Llamarable what gives you the idea your safe from being lynched?

[OhGodMyLife]

There goes Ben, sliding back ahead of Shadoweh on my scumlist.

[Benmage]

OGML, can make a full town-scum playerlist?

[OhGodMyLife]

OGML, can make a full town-scum playerlist?

CES - scum
Shadoweh - likely scum
Benmage - scum, if one of the above is wrong
Deas - likely town
Tierce - town
Empire - town
Tammy - town
Llamarble - town

Your turn

[Llamarble]

@Llamarable what gives you the idea your safe from being lynched?

It just isn't going to happen. There's no outright threat or even thread-volatility, I have enormous amounts of towniness-ammo, I always win duels, etc etc.
I've more or less chalked this one up as a win with some work left to do since my "scum are pretty effed" post.
UT & Vi flips + a sprinkling of obvtowns / Zachconf left us a 'find one townie in this pool and victory is guaranteed' situation, and it doesn't even seem that hard to pick the scums out of that pool.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh: Can you provide me with games, as scum and as Town, where you had this kind of reaction to not being in a scum lynch? Because it seems rather excessive and you have been

not

in scum lynches before, up to and including defending scum. Why the sudden "woe is me"?

Probably not, I think you need an account to see the ones on the site I usually play on. There is a difference between defending scum and swearing up and down that they're the towniest obvtowns you've ever seen and you will never ever Pinkie Promise lynch them. I like to think I'm good at mafia sometimes. (Also I didn't read this when I last logged in, so I didn't see you wanted a question answered.)

Tammy: I did kind of read just before the lynch, I still don't get what happened because most of it is you and Empire arguing with each other. But you mean stuff like this?

Okay empires reaction to the dv/nacho thing is what I was looking for. I had the same reaction to the case and dv's response, But empire's better at reading dv than I am so I wanted his take.
VOTE: nacho
So we should now have truly competing wagons. This places them at 4 each. Empire it's up to you to make the choice.

Yes excellent reasoning. I understand why Benmage, Deasvail and Tierce voted Nacho. Your reasoning to vote Nacho was to pressure Empire which is kind of dumb but I've done it before so etc.
Actually now that I've finished reading the whole Nacho/DV thing which was pretty terrible I get it. Why did you need Empire to tell you that Nacho jumping on his supah town read was scummy?

How does this explain why the natural thing to do next is lynch CES? I mean, in this world we're living in where one of me/Benmage/OGML is scum with the two of them either Benmage ramped up a wagon on his other scumbuddy or I started the day bussing CES for no reason while ignoring the way my buddies were trying to start alternate wagons. OGML's vote is the only one that makes sense to me in that circumstance since he'd have jumped late on the wagon for cred. I guess we could be the worst most inconsiderate scumbuddies ever.

I've 100% changed my mind on OGML in general actually since his posts are absolute shit.

I might have been wrong about Benmage, because Shadoweh really seems like he wants us all to know he's scum too

Benmage shouldn't even be in consideration anymore, especially if you believe CES is scum too, because it would mean he avoided bussing the buddy everyone suspected and still suspects to drive a lynch on the buddy the majority of people weren't going to lynch. At least if OGML flips scum it would prove I'm not his buddy because I'd never let him call me a dude. One of Benmage or Shadoweh is a sucky position to take when you're running out of PoE slots, our alignments aren't related. I'm also quite sure this guy has never read any of my posts, I know I have no idea why he suspects me, he's never mentioned me before. Maybe it's because I pointed out he's voting for the sake of voting yesterday.

##Vote: OhGodMyLife

I guess I'm not against a CES lynch with that in mind, but it really seems like CES was the lumpy scum-driven lynch and Nacho was the out of nowhere townie sweep.

[Tammy]

Shadoweh - Really really...now it is bloody obvious to me that you are legit not reading the game or my posts. How could you be confused why I voted Nacho and why would you think it was for that. I feel like you've made it your mission to just annoy me this game, and I just can't figure out why, if you're town, you're just not reading the game. You've shown time and time again that you just aren't reading the game. Reading it would give you the answer and you wouldn't be wasting my time.

For instance did you miss this? By the way, this is is just a smattering of my posts about nacho yesterday. The remaining ones are me interacting with him and very clearly not being satisfied with the answers. My posts yesterday are a virtual road map for why I voted nacho, and you're confused?

So Nacho / CES / maybeN until further notice.

I like this because I don't trust Nacho.

Last night when I was reading over the game, the sense that I got of ces today is that he's mostly arguing about argument types, and talking about how scum buddies interact and less about actual scum. CES - who do you think ogml's partners are? Reading his iSo I don't feel it as much but it's still there. (I still have some punts about him for sure coming back scum, not going to repeat them again since they're in my ces wall. I still like those things but he's capable of doing that as scum too.)

I need to think about it but I almost think nacho is the better lynch just because there are fewer things I like there. Additionally, I hate Post 1348. He left several colors at home in his attempt to paint a picture that lead to benmage scum because of the hammer. He totally left out me questioning the claim and target, vi agreeing with the points I raised and not moving, tierce not moving, and then the post Ben pointed out. That just is more scum motivated to me than town. I did like his reads posts, but I can't shake the suspicion I've had of him since early on, and I can't put my finger on exactly what but ctd's interaction with him is suspicious too.

I'll get back to this is just a little bit, but something just struck me as rather odd.

Nacho worked like hell to save N day one. By his most recent reply to me, I would guess he has a town read on CES. He's caught up in a silly argument with Llamarble in which he's not actually trying to prove that Llamarble is scum though that is where his vote is.

So, if he thinks that ces is town and Llamarble is scum, why is he limping about not actually trying to get his scum read lynched?

So, if he thinks that ces is town and Llamarble is scum, why is he limping about not actually trying to get his scum read lynched?

Do you really think I've been "limping about trying to get my scumread lynched"? Because if so, there's a problem.

No, I believe you were limping about

not

trying to get your scum read lynched. And yes, I agree that's a problem, glad you recognized that!

What I think is a more interesting problem is that you get called out for limping about, and you don't actually then try to get the person you are scum reading lynhced. The person you've been misinterpreting and making silly arguments with but not actually trying to prove anything against. The person you warned should kill you last night but have not done anything with. Instead, instead, you get called out for limping about and what do you decide to do? Make a case against probably the easiest target save OGML here. You havent even talked to him all day save you asking why he had llamarble as a town read in Post 1282

Why in Post 1504 do you just question deas about his scum read on you? I've said for the past few days that I might prefer a lunch of you over ces. Tierce has mentioned that she would lynch you too, so why are you just questioning deasvail?

Post 1506 is scum posting. "I can't dismantle your thoughts if the only thing you say is you think I'm scum". Don't be that guy. Post 1509 is also pretty terrible.

What it very much looks like to me is that you were very satisfied to pretend to contribute today when it looked like ces was getting lynched and not you. And that once you got a few votes and more people started questioning you, you went uh-oh that other lynch I was avoiding might not actually happen, and people are actually starting to notice me in a negative light, I should probably do something, let's get aggressive and try to act town. Problem is I don't believe you believe half of what you're saying.

I don't understand why people are town reading nacho; I think it's a good lynch would lynch twice.

And furthermore where is the hell would you get that I needed Empire to tell me it was scummy? Did you miss this post?

I'll respond to some other things when I get home, sitting at a bar editing my dissertation fml, but this is not how I'd expect deasvail to respond to the case against him as scum. I have some things to say about the case in the first place but was waiting to see how deasvail responded before saying anything.

Empire - if you have internet and see this, will you tell me what you think of the case and deasvail's reaction?

okay later.

Which should make it quite clear I didn't like Nacho's case and thought DV's response was townish. I didn't need Empire to tell me it was scummy; I wanted his feedback. I wanted to see if he had the same reaction I had. He did and that helped me believe that I had the correct reaction in the first place.

This you would know or would realize if you actually read the damn game.

[Tammy]

And the Nacho lynch was not out of nowhere; we had been discussing it all day.

[Tammy]

And by we, I mean the people who are actually reading the game.

[Shadoweh]

I assure you it's not about annoyance at this point. And as of now I went back and reread, though there's some posts before my last one that day that I missed/don't remember. <_< You did explicitly say you were waiting for Empire. And you make a point about Nacho that I'm collecting lovingly crafted quote walls about, so I will admit I bothered you about that in error. Can you tell me why you still think CES is scum with him?

[Llamarble]

Yeah, Nacho lynch was by no means out of nowhere.
I didn't even end up voting him but it would have surprised no one if I had or if CES had for survival, so it had at least 2 more potential votes than it got.

Day 1, Votecount 26

penguin_alien (4) - Deasvail, Konowa, Shadoweh, Llamarble

N (6) - Tierce, CrashTextDummie, Empire, penguin_alien, Tammy, Vi

Vi (2) - Benmage, Cogito Ergo Sum
CrashTextDummie (4) - WickedestJr, N, Nachomamma8, Johhog

Not voting (0) :

NO ONE

If CTD did not know who his buddies were, the N wagon was very town or the Empire/Tierce/Tammy is bad.

Day 1, Votecount 31 aka End of Day Votecount

penguin_alien (9) - Deasvail, Konowa, Shadoweh, Llamarble, Wickedestjr, Nachomamma8, Vi, Benmage, Johhog

N (6) - Tierce, CrashTextDummie, Empire, penguin_alien, Tammy, Cogito Ergo Sum
CrashTextDummie (1) - N

Not voting (0) :

NO ONE

Nacho, Wjr, Benmage help PA wagon surpass N wagon.

Day 2, Votecount 15

Vi (1) - Tammy
Untrod Tripod (1) - Deasvail

Shadoweh (6) - Tierce, Cogito Ergo Sum, Vi, Llamarble, Untrod Tripod, Empire

Benmage (3) - Nachomamma8, OhGodMyLife, Shadoweh
OhGodMyLife (1) - Benmage

Not voting (1) :

Zachrulez

Shadoweh, CES, or both are scum unless TETbad or scum are furiously avoiding causing anything to happen.

Day 2, Votecount 16

Untrod Tripod (4) - Deasvail, Tammy, Zachrulez, Tierce

Shadoweh (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Vi

Benmage (4) - Nachomamma8, OhGodMyLife, Shadoweh, Llamarble

OhGodMyLife (1) - Benmage
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Untrod Tripod

Not voting (1) :

Empire

Day 2, Votecount 18

Untrod Tripod (7) - Deasvail, Tammy, Zachrulez, Tierce, Vi, Llamarble, Benmage

Shadoweh (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Benmage (3) - Nachomamma8, OhGodMyLife, Shadoweh
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Untrod Tripod

Not voting (1) :

Empire

DV, Zach, or Benmage.

The TET assumption is pretty helpful, so you TET folks had better be pretty confident about each other. I personally don't see much wrong with y'all.
So this narrows things down to... People not me or TET assuming me and TET town. How wonderful.
I don't really believe in Shadoweh scum though, so voting CES still seems about right.

The Shadoweh / OGML / Nacho team does look pretty good. I could explain UT via scum vote-stacking earlier to CW for shadoweh and then not bothering to move when the situation became UT vs Benmage.

But then there is this:
Llamarble (8) - Benmage, Empire, Deasvail, CrashTextDummie, Vi, penguin_alien, Tierce, Cogito Ergo Sum

You're not even going to try, then? Very boring.

Vote: Llamarble

Was vote L-1. But:

Empire, if I had given an early opinion on the 'marblewagon, it would've been to reject it based on readability shenanigans.

So CES is of the "marble will eventually be super-readable" persuasion but stuck me at L-1 mid D1.
I mean Benmage's derpvote was already on me at the time, but that still created substantial opportunity for a wasted lynch.
Shadoweh/OGML/Nacho would imply two very large wagons on town with zero scums on them. That just doesn't happen often.

Actually, we are obligated by our current assumptions to accept a large scum-free on town at this point.
N (6) - Tierce, CrashTextDummie, Empire, penguin_alien, Tammy, Vi
N would have to be scum to prevent this one.
Shadoweh (6) - Tierce, Cogito Ergo Sum, Vi, Llamarble, Untrod Tripod, Empire
CES or Shadoweh has to be scum to prevent this one.
Untrod Tripod (7) - Deasvail, Tammy, Zachrulez, Tierce, Vi, Llamarble, Benmage
Neither of those two groups were on this one.

[Tierce]

Hey Shadoweh.

What about the fact that you-Town considers people who don't read the game during Night lazy and it is something you feel rather strongly about?

How about the fact that you didn't read the Nacho/Deas interaction

until now

? I understand not having read it before the lynch if you weren't around (unlikely that you were gone

altogether

, but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt), but

over two full days

to read what was frankly a visible scum meltdown? If nothing else, it was entertaining, so why didn't you even read it? Over two days feeling depressed that you had defended scum? COme on, how long have you been playing mafia?

What's worse: I'm going to toot my own horn here, but iirc you like reading my posts. My follow-up to my vote on Nacho specifically mentions the Deas/Nacho interaction.

And you hadn't read it.

Lazy, lazy scum. Tammy is right.


(And no, Benmage, I am not using a "pressure vote". I'm being practical when I say CES won't be lynched during V/LA.)

[Shadoweh]

...I'm still puzzling through the argument Nacho and CTD were having oveer N's alignment, so I'm not sure what to make of it, but Nacho's content on CES is horrible. By horrible I mean it doesn't exist.

CES seems fine so far although the penguin-N-Vi scumteam doesn't really feel like something that's anywhere close to valid to me, but that's fine for now. The exchanges with Vi (with Vi's response being "oh, CES isn't trolling right now!") feel doubleplusgood to me, so he's a townread for me at the moment.

In a wall of reads that definitely state town-scum reasons, this is too waffly to be believable. Alot of seems fine for no reason. He does very little talking to him afterwards, and then commits this:

Meanwhile, I need to do a little reanalyzing. I still am watching Empire, but I don't really think he's scum this game. Still feeling fine with a Wicked lynch, but I want to focus a lot more on CES-Vi today.

That focus involved asking CES who his scumteam pick was, asking why it was me, and then we're done with CES and back to voting Llamarble. Also slightly chainsawing by attacking Llamarble for his voting reasons on CES. (The Nacho/Llamarble fights probably clear Llamarble as well.) He keeps saying he'd lynch CES and even voted him briefly before jumping off, but there's no why behind it ever.

So I answered my own question I guess. Thanks guys!

You all cut me a bunch but I'm gonna post this first.

[Shadoweh]

Hey Shadoweh.
What about the fact that you-Town considers people who don't read the game during Night lazy and it is something you feel rather strongly about?
How about the fact that you didn't read the Nacho/Deas interaction

until now

? I understand not having read it before the lynch if you weren't around (unlikely that you were gone

altogether

, but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt), but

over two full days

to read what was frankly a visible scum meltdown? If nothing else, it was entertaining, so why didn't you even read it? Over two days feeling depressed that you had defended scum? COme on, how long have you been playing mafia?
What's worse: I'm going to toot my own horn here, but iirc you like reading my posts. My follow-up to my vote on Nacho specifically mentions the Deas/Nacho interaction.

And you hadn't read it.

Lazy, lazy scum. Tammy is right.
(And no, Benmage, I am not using a "pressure vote". I'm being practical when I say CES won't be lynched during V/LA.)

It is pretty lazy. I'm not denying that I've been outright avoiding the thread ever since I saw the big red flip. I'm feeling more perky though. And to be fair I didn't read up to the part where Nacho started melting in the first place so I couldn't have known he'd done that! (Or that you'd posted that thing either, I read it now though.)

I'm not sure if it even matters if you lynch me eventually because right now the game is on its way to lockdown. There's a good chance Me/CES/OGML will just end the game. I feel like reading anyways just in case.

Also it's not like CES was going to respond very much if he wasn't V/LA. You don't think he's scum though, so I can understand why you'd push in the other direction. What do you think of what I've brought up?

[Shadoweh]

ps i noticed you don't think he's scum because i read your posts

[Benmage]

(And no, Benmage, I am not using a "pressure vote". I'm being practical when I say CES won't be lynched during V/LA.)

Who is your ideal lynch/flip for today?