NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

[ArcAngel9]

^ I agree!!!

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: bulbazak

for trying to pass arguments on others to win the town cred.

What are you talking about?

[Bulbazak]

Answer that. Because I have no idea what you were saying.

[ArcAngel9]

Answer that. Because I have no idea what you were saying.

Its the way how you defend Jen, How do you know for sure that Jen is so town.
She was very scummy and have reached L-1, and your reasoning her defense just sounded very opportunist and it appeared like you wanted to defend to earn the town cred.

And how you suspected me for putting Jen at L-1, how does that make me your suspicious...?

[Bulbazak]

Its the way how you defend Jen, How do you know for sure that Jen is so town.

I don't. I just have a very strong townread on her, which I have explained several times.

And how you suspected me for putting Jen at L-1, how does that make me your suspicious...?

Actually, I never suspected you were scum for voting Jen. I just said your logic was bad. There's a difference.

[Voidedmafia]

Mod: Did Klick ask to be replaced? Or flake?

Flaked

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 3.06:

DrippingGoofball - Bulbazak, Syryana
Bulbazak - DrippingGoofball, arcangel, RainbowDash
Syryana - BBmolla, Human Destroyer, zdenek, Jennifer

Not Voting - Titan, DCLXVI, Antilles, Ms. Marangal, Metal Overlord, Klick

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch and to no-lynch.

The Deadline is in (expired on 2013-05-05 00:37:43) or by 11: 40 PM on May 4th, 2013.

Searching for a replacement for Klick

[Antilles]

I've read some Syryana posts. They stink. I'm perfectly fine with his lynch happening.

[Antilles]

Also, the more a slot is replaced in a game, the more likely it is to be a scum slot.

[Bulbazak]

Also, the more a slot is replaced in a game, the more likely it is to be a scum slot.

That's Correlation Implies Causation, and has no bearing on how scummy a slot is.

[Ms Marangal]

I'm done moping, Still not voting Bulb or RBD DBG, sorry

I stated that I was fine with Serra/Jen lynch, as well as TAM/Lurker/Syry lynch and those still remain to be my top two choices

VOTE: Syry

either way, we will end up getting scum lynch so I'm down with this.

[BBmolla]

Votes on Syryana

[Antilles]

Also, the more a slot is replaced in a game, the more likely it is to be a scum slot.

That's Correlation Implies Causation, and has no bearing on how scummy a slot is.

No it's not. I said nothing about number of replacements implying how scummy the slot is.

Learn. To. Fucking. Read.

[Bulbazak]

Also, the more a slot is replaced in a game, the more likely it is to be a scum slot.

That's Correlation Implies Causation, and has no bearing on how scummy a slot is.

No it's not. I said nothing about number of replacements implying how scummy the slot is.

Learn. To. Fucking. Read.

Actually you did. You said that the slot was more likely to be scum BECAUSE it had been replaced multiple times. There's an unsaid train of thought that behind this that goes something like this:

1. Players tend to replace out of scum slots more than town slots.
2. Syryana's slot has been replaced twice.
Conclusion: Syryana is more likely to be scum.

Now before anyone jumps on this for being Circular Reasoning instead of CIC, we need to first consider how Antilles first reached this conclusion. More than likely his experiences with player replacement involve a disproportionate amount of those player slots being scum. So we end up with this:

1. A player slot was replaced out.
2. That player slot flipped town.
Conclusion: Player slots that replace out are likely to be scum.

This IS Correlation Implies Causation. You've only compounded it with additional replacements. The simple fact of the matter is that player replacement is alignment neutral, as the reasons for it can never be known, and more often than not, they are never game related.

Say again that you didn't say that, and I will call it out for the contradiction and blatant scumposting that it is.

[Antilles]

Hey Bulbazak. You're going on full ignore because clearly you're a fucking moron.

"We need to first consider how Antilles first reached this conclusion" <-- You are clearly more interested in winning an argument than finding scum. Which means you're even more of an idiot than previously believed.

And whether or not

you think

the mental leap I made had anything to do with logical fallacies (and no, it did not), has no bearing on the fact that a) scum slots DO get more replacements -- I advise you to check yourself before you wreck yourself on this one buddy, and b) I know a lot more about mafia than you, I have played in countless more games than you, and my record as both town and scum blows yours out of the fucking water (yes, I checked your record out).

Therefore, you can suck a dick.

Because I'm not going to dignify your posts with a response from here on out.

[DrippingGoofball]

Which means you're even more of an idiot than previously believed.

He's not an idiot, he's quite smart, but he's scum. He's working against your wincon. I commend him for keeping up after losing two buddies in a row. He doesn't deserve to be called names.

He can suck a dick if he's into that, but not because you tell him to. I can't believe I just wrote this <<<

[Klick]

(I'm replacing out because I'm playing my last game and I want to only be playing that game right now, to answer that, Zdenek.)

[DrippingGoofball]

(I'm replacing out because I'm playing my last game and I want to only be playing that game right now, to answer that, Zdenek.)

Thanks, now I'll know your alignment here, from your flip in another game.

I HATE HATE HATE when people make allusions to ongoing, NO MATTER HOW INDIRECT they THINK these allusions are.

AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh

YOU are going to make me

SET
YOUR
TOES
ON
FIRE

[Klick]

Um... no?

[Voidedmafia]

Take it to PMs, you two.

Klick, since you're not playing anymore, I expect that you won't post again, not even to reply to this.

[Rainbowdash]

Because I'm not going to dignify your posts with a response from here on out.

You should stop acting like a real life scumbag and vote instead of just doing the "I agree with all the wagons" play.

Also absolutely no ongoing comments. Ive seen two scenarios where entirely offhand comments (okay one was kinda blatant but still game broke) where some small thing forced an ethic driven replace out.

[Syryana]

*cracks knuckles* Wall response time!

First off, HD makes a special point of mentioning repeatedly that I don't detail why my reads are what they are. I replaced in on the day of the deadline with I think something like 12 hours or less left and 60 pages to read. I'll do my best to highlight why my townreads are what they are, but I'm not going through 60 pages of crap again to justify reads on 15 players.

Lastly, Syryana him/herself.

Page 11 break time!

Thoughts:

People I like: Titan, HD, AA9, serra
People I don't like: KBW, TUA, Bulbazak, Reek, Otterhorse
People that haven't made an impression one way or the other: Errbody else.

At this moment, probably would vote for TUA if I had to vote. Lunch time nao.

I guess this isn't a terrible reads list based on when he made it? I don't understand Otter-scum or serra-town though, those seem kinda out of the blue.

First off, my reads hadn't even evolved to scum/not scum at this point. My reads were more or less "this person gave me good vibes, that person gave me bad vibes, nobody else made an impression." I didn't like Otterhorse for pushing a policy lynch and they were vague about their reasons for the lynch list in #177. I don't like policy lynches except in very extreme circumstances and that's essentially what OH was pushing for the first 10 pages. Serra I liked because he was arguing against policy lynches and I mostly agreed with his early reads(except MsM, but I always think MsM is scum <3).

My early scumreads list was primarily gut-based. Bulba gave me a decently solid scumread early on with his self-vote, then his apparent rush to lynch BT and his fairly terrible reasons to vote Titan. His #245 in particular troubled me. I didn't like how he went from voting Titan to townreading them, calling Otterhorse scum for wanting a PL but only calling Reek null for the same, his stance on TUA felt really off (I had TUA as scum from really early, that in a sec). The whole damn thing just felt fake.

TUA got a gut-scumread from the first few posts they made and they simply got worse from there. #56 is patently awful. They declared Bulba "incredibly town" right after the self-vote exchange between him and BT, the AA scumread was garbage, the Otter scumread was okay until I read the "Forcing heads to claim has always been something I've despised" and I thought what the hell does that have to do with anything. Calling Titan seriously town after two pages of RVS was also shit. Reads are bad, reads are bad, explaining makes them looks worse, AA read is horrid, "I'm never scum" is so forced (#87), God make it stop it's terrible. Like, reading their ISO is just horrifying. In 60 pages of content, that read was one that never wavered.

Reek was scum because policy lynches. Like Otterhorse.

KBW was scummy because apparently in 10 pages of fairly dense content he had nothing to say. Not to mention his unexplained reads in #73.

Now at page 21. Time to update my reads!

Thoughts:

People I like: Titan, HD, AA9, serra
People I don't like: KBW, TUA, Bulbazak, Reek, Otterhorse
People that haven't made an impression one way or the other: Errbody else.

I'm putting this crap in a table.

Town	Null leaning Town	Null	Null Leaning Scum	Scum
Titan HD BT AA9	serra/Jennifer	Ms Marangal Klick	MO Robocopter87 Otterhorse RachMarie	TUA Bulbazak Reek Antilles KBW

No particular order (in terms of the order of names in each column) yet. I'll let you know if I fix it such that the order means something.

This is so much more difficult to look at because of the way I make these posts but anyway

I forget what page it was where Titan started to scum. It was some page though. idk if Syr's gotten to that point yet.

Why the fuck is serra/Jennifer slot null-town? Why isn't MM town? Why is OH null-scum? Why is Bulbazak scum? (Sorry DGB, still disagree with you on that slot being scum.) Why is KBW even here? I don't remember Rach very well but what makes her null-scum?

Titan didn't enter the wild insane tailspin until DGB joined the game. I dunno when that happened right this second, but it was after page 21. Serra/Jennifer is null/town because I liked Serra for town, but I downgraded the slot after Jen replaced in. She had only made three posts by this point, so I didn't move her slot anywhere. MM's null because I can't read MM for shit, ever. I've been in probably a half-dozen games with her or a hydra of her and I've been pretty much wrong about her every time. OH got onto the nullscum list because they kept talking about policy lynches. However, my rampant dislike of policy lynches wasn't enough to bounce anyone off the already-full scum list since the five already on that list were pretty solid scumreads. KBW is there because I didn't know he was dead at that point; I didn't read ahead except the final page where I posted "Hai gaiz, 60 pages bbl". Rach was on the nullscum list because her "TAM always lurks lol" posts (#273, #274, #287) gave me bad vibes and she started advocating policy lynches in #287. However, much like OH she ended up in the nullscum pile because it wasn't enough to pop anybody off the scum list.

Bulba stayed a scumread here because in the preceding 10 pages he didn't really do much of note other than townread TUA and go "hey let's lynch any of these several people(TAM, Antilles MO), go!", which combined with my scumread from his #245 really didn't go over well. Antilles made the list because he was lurking hardcore and the rare occasion when he did post the posts were on a level of awful until recently reserved for TUA. He'd lurk, ask questions, do little with the answers (it looked like he didn't even care to get answers), lurk some more, post unjustified reads and one-word answers. Then he townread TUA for no apparent reason.

The rest of the reads were more or less constant, which is to say I didn't see anything townie enough from them to swap with one of my null/scum reads.

Page 31. The sheer volume of Amished tells in the last 10 pages made my head explode.

Town	Null leaning Town	Null	Null Leaning Scum	Scum
Titan HD serra Jennifer	BT zdenek AA9	Ms Marangal Klick	Bulbazak Robocopter87 Otterhorse RachMarie	TUA MO Reek DGB Antilles KBW

Wide net of suspicion is widening. Town reads are beginning to disappear.

Townreads are beginning to disappear for a good reason. BT was replaced by zdenek and just like I did with Serra/Jen I moved the slot to null-town until I could get a handle on the replacement. AA9 got moved to null/town because I realized I'd given her a pass because a few of my townreads had pointed her play matched her town-meta almost perfectly. It was around this point I realized how bad I was being w.r.t. her slot, so I moved her down to get a personal and hopefully more accurate read. Jen got put back in the townpile because I liked her posts about MO, TUA and KBW.

Bulba got swapped with MO because his latest posts felt pretty genuine and MO became a much more solid scumread. I put MO in the null-scum category after their #395 because, well, #395 sucked. Seriously, 1 townread and 2 scumreads after 20 pages of content? Lol? Their defense later was also pretty awful, particularly once it descended into immaturity with #541 and #550. Their play after narrowly avoiding death also came off as "we're not dead, thank god, let's try to lynch anyone else" (#657, #658). #658 was a pretty transparent attempt to gain towncred by voting then unvoting KBW.

I'm not even going to bother discussing why DGB is in the scumpile. They've been dropping scumtells like the little girl at a wedding with a bushel basket of rosepetals.

Page 41.

Town	Null leaning Town	Null	Null Leaning Scum	Scum
Titan HD serra Jennifer	Bulbazak BT zdenek	Ms Marangal AA9 Klick	Robocopter87 Otterhorse RBD RachMarie	TUA MO Reek DGB Antilles

Now this is pretty odd. Not sure why Syr even started with Bulb-scum, but I'm also not sure what propelled his change to Bulb being null-town. Scumreads don't appear to be fluid or reconsidered with the exception of Bulbazak, nothing's explained at all.

there's another post but it has more unexplained reads so not worth looking at

None of the scumreads have done a damn thing to make me consider my read on them with the exception of Bulba, so what's your point? Bulba's interactions with MO were ultimately what convinced me to rethink my read on him. I really liked his analyses in his posts in the 800s to 900s range.

Long fackin read.

Town	Null leaning Town	Null	Null Leaning Scum	Scum
Titan HD Bulbazak	Otterhorse RBD Robocopter87 BBMolla	AA9 BT zdenek serra Jennifer Klick	Ms Marangal RachMarie	TUA MO Reek DGB Antilles

Alrighty. I frankly don't care whether we lynch goof or TUA; they're both on my lyst of lynchables. I'm voting for TUA though, since I've had a gut scumread on that slot since the first few pages.

VOTE: TUA

"Give me towncred pls"

Still no reads explanation. Somehow Bulb went from obv-scum to obv-town.

You got your reads explanation. Bulb went to obv-town because I reconsidered my scumread on the slot and I've liked his posts from roughly Page 30 on. There were some points I disagreed with here and there, but as I'm tired I don't feel like running through all that for the things I disagree with him on right now. If you really care ask me again later and I'll answer questions.

Cool. So, DGB or Antilles next?

One town, one scum buddy. Mm hmm.

What makes you so certain DBG is town?

I'm good with Antilles.
VOTE: Antilles

@MO: You're on my scumreads list along with DGF, Antilles and UA. Considering the two available lynches were both your scumbuddies (UA and DGF), you bussing one of them doesn't earn you towncred with me. Your "twilight post" (such as it was) was the first thing you've said in quite a while I didn't outright hate. It's not enough to put you out of my scum category, but it's a step in the right direction.

Why is xe so hesitant to actually push MO here? Xe talks about how certain xe is about the scumread...but never EVER follows through.

I'd look here on a Syr scumflip.

I'll assume "xe" means "he". Honestly, MO is the weakest of my scumreads at this point. Their twilight post went a good ways towards getting me to reevaluate the slot. Not enough to get me to swap them out with one of the null/scums at this time, but enough to make me doubt my read on the slot. I'd rather see a DGB/Antilles lynch.

I'd much rather see a lynch on DGB or Antilles than Jen. However, it would hardly break my heart if we lynched Jen instead; her play in the last 20 or so pages was enough to downgrade her from a decent townread to a null read.

RBD, BB: Why do the two of you think Jen is scum?

Bulba: Who are your current scumreads? BB can answer this too (not counting Jen).

???
I'd also look at Jen as a potential Syr partner.

I was going to continue but I'm legitimately bored of this. Let's just wagon the slot.

How many potential partners do I have at this point? Four? I've lost count. You do realize there's only three scum left, right? You're getting pretty lazy with your analysis, HD. Pretty out of character for you.

[Rainbowdash]

Syryana is more in the "if the game is still going" camp for lynches here.

HD is still scum. Klick is scum. Bulb is scum.

I think it something like that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yeah, no, I detect a flavor of

"I thought my buddies were scum at first but then I was reading and I think they're town. I would rather lynch townies, they are in my scumpile."

Pretty much everyone had Bulbascum as town, right? But Syryana comes along, and does a retroactive distancing act. He finds Bulbascum scummy at a time when everyone found him townie. But later in the game, he became more townie.

I'd still way rather lynch Syryana's buddy Bulbascum, because I'm more certain of Bulbascum.

[Ms Marangal]

Why is Bulb scum Rainbow?