Why prod? (split from Scummies Ideas)

[Shadi1337]

First of all my apologies if it's the wrong place to post this also my apologies if it doesn't apply to every single game. However, I trust the moderation team with that they'll tell me where to post this if it isn't the right place and see I mean no evil by posting this (here).

I have a question regarding a certain rule, now I do not know if the rule applies in every game thread but here goes. Your way of anti AFKing people is to check whether they have posted the last, approx, 72 hours/3 days in that game. Now, I don't see the need for this if a vote has been posted that round. Let's say I have voted and I simply don't have any additional words/points to say/add. Wouldn't it be better to judge whether a vote has been placed by a player each round? I'm steadfast about a vote/my words and nobody's voting against me so I don't have to justify myself?

Again I'm not here to complain, the forums seem pretty nice. There's only that (and the really long rounds) which bother(s) me a little. I know you probably have a really good reason and you're all accustomed to the way it is; if there is a really good reason I'd like to hear it though. If not, then maybe a method to keep yourself from getting modkilled when you're active but judged as not being. If I'm very lucky, maybe even a change of that rule That's probably wishful thinking though; I can see that not having it would cause a bit more AFKing but there's no reason for redundant/useless activity either.

Thanks for reading,
- Shadi.

[animorpherv1]

The reason is that a player who isn't doing anything, regardless of if they have voted or not, is not an asset for their side, and in several cases, it can actually be harmful.

[Shadi1337]

The reason is that a player who isn't doing anything, regardless of if they have voted or not, is not an asset for their side, and in several cases, it can actually be harmful.

Well if they have given a reason for their vote and there's absolutely no reason to post? Do I just post "Hey" to prevent being modkilled or? (Coz that'd be quite silly)? I mean I have been in games on other forums where I simply cannot dig further.

[Vi]

Miriel banishes this thread to its proper residence.

The reason why these prods exist is because you can't tell if someone who doesn't post in 72 hours has flaked (e.g. left the game entirely) or is just not paying attention for whichever reason. Usually in the cases you describe people will just "prod dodge".

With that said, in most cases it's really not a good idea for Townies to lurk.

[zoraster]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22551

Play here for longer than 3 days, preferably a while, then come and tell us how we can do things better. This is a life lesson: don't come into an established place, whether a job, a family, or a forum site and try to tell everyone how they should be doing things on the day of arrival. There are reasons for the things you see, but they're reasons that are best experienced rather than played.

Forum mafia runs on communication. If everyone stopped talking it would completely fail. That's why you have to post.

[Tierce]

If you placed a vote and then lurked for 72 hours in which a lynch has not occurred, you clearly are not campaigning hard enough for your chosen lynch, so there

is

absolutely a reason to post. Go back to the thread and get that person lynched already instead of letting the game fall into apathy.

Imagine if all the players did that? "Okay, we are all voting for someone, but it's not enough to get anyone lynched because we are all voting different people. Don't care, I've already voted, I'm going to lurk the rest of the Day." That mindset is far more hurtful to Town than it is to scum, which usually revel in apathetic Towns. And it makes for boring games all around--people come back t the thread and go "oh, I don't know, don't really care,

VOTE: XYZ

." Don't let that happen as a player. And as a mod, you frankly don't want to risk players flaking without knowledge.

[Shadi1337]

If you placed a vote and then lurked for 72 hours in which a lynch has not occurred, you clearly are not campaigning hard enough for your chosen lynch, so there

is

absolutely a reason to post. Go back to the thread and get that person lynched already instead of letting the game fall into apathy.

Imagine if all the players did that? "Okay, we are all voting for someone, but it's not enough to get anyone lynched because we are all voting different people. Don't care, I've already voted, I'm going to lurk the rest of the Day." That mindset is far more hurtful to Town than it is to scum, which usually revel in apathetic Towns. And it makes for boring games all around--people come back t the thread and go "oh, I don't know, don't really care,

VOTE: XYZ

." Don't let that happen as a player. And as a mod, you frankly don't want to risk players flaking without knowledge.

Campaigning that hard for a lynch with small hunches/traits seems suspicious imo; not to forget that you may already have convinced (several) people to follow your vote on the tally and therefore don't really need to keep talking. It's especially hard the first 1-2 rounds, round 1 is usually pretty much a giant RVS although people quickly say/claim it's done early. Once you have 2-3 rounds and thus 2 (final/finished) tallies to compare you can start getting some real results. If you're extremely lucky, a scum slips very early somehow or someone seems very suspicious and you can commence the wagon.

Miriel banishes this thread to its proper residence.

The reason why these prods exist is because you can't tell if someone who doesn't post in 72 hours has flaked (e.g. left the game entirely) or is just not paying attention for whichever reason. Usually in the cases you describe people will just "prod dodge".

With that said, in most cases it's really not a good idea for Townies to lurk.

The prod dodge thing is kinda what I needed to hear, Vi. As long as I know that it's smartly handled by the moderation team/hosts I'm satisfied enough already. You could also check in these cases, has user voted

No? --> Replace
Yes? --> Check status, when was the last time he was online on the forums, does he have a reason not to post the past 3 days (which is the case I'm trying to talk about and where the prod dodge comes in place).

That makes me feel more comfortable. If I do have something to say or question posts I will post, I can, however, imagine myself not really finding anything to say for 3 days.

[Tierce]

Yes? --> Check status, when was the last time he was online on the forums, does he have a reason not to post the past 3 days (which is the case I'm trying to talk about and where the prod dodge comes in place).

The only 'reason not to post' ever in which a moderator would (should!) see it as acceptable not to prod is if the person has a listed V/LA. Otherwise, the moderator is being a partial figure in the gamestate. That should never happen. And "last online" is not as reliable as you might think.

[Vi]

I think that you're putting an oversized weight on whether a player has voted. (This is not EpicMafia; whether you have cast a vote has no bearing on how long the Day lasts unless there is a lynching wagon.)

Also if nothing worth talking about happens in three days you should (as Town) probably consider doing something about that.

[Shadi1337]

I think that you're putting an oversized weight on whether a player has voted. (This is not EpicMafia; whether you have cast a vote has no bearing on how long the Day lasts unless there is a lynching wagon.)

Not necessarily on a vote, but on a vote/words placed in a way that no more needs to be said about a situation. No I never implied that voting (amount) is dependent to the round length. Just the requirement to say more when it is not needed.

Also if nothing worth talking about happens in three days you should (as Town) probably consider doing something about that.

I guess this must have happened before though? Also, if no one else is posting for 3 days; does everybody get replaced/poked or prodded then?

I don't know how often those 3 days thingies without a post will happen, I haven't really played that much to speak about tendencies. I'd just like to know what happens if lack of voting/posting for 3 days happens and it's justified by the situation (no more words to be added/nobody else saying anything meaning no more additional information given) and it seems like you tend to dodge in these situations. If not, then (despite the lazy players that have nothing to add) it's quite silly.
I'd daresay that it could be a little different there, how exactly, I don't really know as I can see how much activity would drop with it. Perhaps shorter rounds (I personally barely see the need for such long rounds) but anyway as I said I'm not here to complain although I guess I have since the first post so I apologise and thanks for the answer Vi, I hope it's indeed like you said.

Appreciated! Oh and of course, thanks to everybody else who posted and to whomever made my post into a split thread. Although it wasn't exactly what I searched for.

[Master Mew]

I'd just like to know what happens if lack of voting/posting for 3 days happens and it's justified by the situation

I cannot actually think of a situation where this would be justified. "I have nothing to add" is a reactionary attitude that demands someone else generate content for you to respond to. If no one has anything to discuss, be proactive and generate discussion.

It's an interesting hypothetical to discuss, but the only plausible scenario I can conceive where a total lack of posting in a game for three days would be justified is... endgame.

[Mr. Flay]

I cannot actually think of a situation where this would be justified. "I have nothing to add" is a reactionary attitude that demands someone else generate content for you to respond to. If no one has anything to discuss, be proactive and generate discussion.

This.

[kuribo]

There's always a reason to post. *

Someone you want lynched not getting lynched? Post.
Someone you think is town getting lynched? Post.
Town not posting enough? Post.
Someone makes a scummy case against someone? Post.
Someone makes a good case against someone? Post.
Someone refutes the case against them in a scummy way? Post.
Someone refutes the case against them in a towny way? Post.
Your wife left you for some guy she met on World of Warcraft? Post.

*Alternatively, think of it this way: There's never a reason to not post.

In general, being in the thick of things is almost universally seen as pro-town, so it's to your advantage to post. People who don't post and sit back watching things happen are generally read as scum.

If you're town, you owe it to your team and win condition to post in order to help the rest of the town establish a read on you. One of the worst things is winding up in LYLO with someone who's barely posted and whom you can't get a decent read on.

If you're scum, you owe it to your team and win condition to post in order to fool the town into establishing a read on you and give your buddies something to work with. One of the worst things is having to bus your own buddy just because he's not posting. You can't defend him for this, and you get no town cred from the bus because it's a lurker lynch anyway.

If you're third party, you owe it to yourself and win condition to post in order to prevent town from thinking you're scum, and prevent scum from pushing your easy lynch as a lurker. One of the worst things is becoming the scum's designated mislynch as a third party just because it was easy to push you and town figured out that you weren't town.

In short, A.B.P.- Always Be Posting. Or N.B.N.P.- Never Be Not Posting.

But then again I tend to post as if I'm a crack addict and only by posting more can I obtain more sweet, sweet crack.

I feel that my free-and-easy stream-of-consciousness posting style tends to be one of the reasons I don't get mislynched--- when you're posting, people can see if you're typing whatever pops into your head or if you're sitting there worrying about how it will come across.

[zoraster]

kuribo is the Alec Baldwin from Glengarry Glen Ross of Mafia.

[kuribo]

kuribo is the Alec Baldwin from Glengarry Glen Ross of Mafia.

You're talking about what? You're talking about... B----ing about that townie you vigged, some sonofab---- who don't post, some broad who fakeclaims, so forth. Let's talk about something important. They all here?

(All but one)

I'm going anyway. Let's talk about something important. Put. That Scummie. Down. Scummies' for winners only. You think I'm f---ing with you? I am not f---ing with you. I'm here from Theme Park. I'm here from the Large Theme Games. And I'm here on a mission of mercy. Your name's Shadi? You call yourself a mafia player you son of a b----?

(I don't gotta sit here and listen to this s---)

You certainly don't pal, 'cause the good news is - you're lynched. The bad news is - you've got, all of you've got just one week to regain your town cred starting with tonight. Starting with tonight's MD thread. Oh? Have I got your attention now? Good. "Cause we're adding a little something to this month's posting contest. As you all know first prize is towncred on a scum lynch. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a trip to the dead QT. Third prize is you're modkilled for inactivity. Get the picture? You laughing now? You got reads. Tierce and zoraster did good scumhunting, get their names to lynch scum. You can't follow the reads you're given you can't post s---. You ARE s---. Hit the bricks pal, and beat it 'cause you are going OUT.

(The reads are weak)

The reads are weak? F---ing reads are weak. You're weak. I've been on this site 5 years.

(What's your name?)

F--- you. That's my name. You know why, mister? You were still alive in LYLO. I got night-killed by the scum to protect themselves. THAT'S my name. And your name is you're wanting. You can't play in the man's game, you can't post townishly- go home and tell your wife your troubles. Because only one thing counts in this life: Post. You hear me you f---ing f-----s? A-B-P. A-Always, B-Be, P-Posting. Always be posting. ALWAYS BE POSTING. A-I-D-A. Attention, Interest, Decision, Action. Attention - Do I have your attention? Interest - Are you interested? I know you are, because it's f--- or walk. You post or you hit the bricks. Decision - Have you made your decision about who scum is, for Christ? And Action, push that wagon. A-I-D-A. Get out there - you got the players coming in. You think they came in to get off EpicMafia? A guy don't join a game lest he wants to play. They're sitting out there waiting to see you as town. Are you gonna take it? Are you man enough to take it? What's the problem, pal?

(You're such a hero, you're so good at finding scum, how come you're coming down here wasting your time with such a bunch of bums)

You see this avatar? You see this avatar?

(Yeah)

That avatar is more well known than your sig. I made thousands of posts last year. How many'd you make? You see pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing. Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? F--- you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna play here - post! You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you c---sucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get playing with Fate? You don't like it, leave. _I_ can replace tonight into the games you're in and post thirty times. Tonight! In two hours! Can you? Can YOU? Go and do likewise. A-I-D-A. Get mad you son of a b-----s. get mad. You want to know what it takes to lynch scum? It takes BRASS BALLS to win at mafia. Go and do likewise gents. Wagon's out there. You pick it up, it's yours. You don't, I got no sympathy for you. You wanna go out on those threads tonight and post, POST. It's yours. If not you're gonna be posting about me in the Dead QT. And you know what you'll be saying - a bunch of losers sittin' around in post-game. 'Oh yeah. This game was tough, I got lynched Day 1' These are the new reads. These are the reads to the games you're in. And to you they're gold, and you don't get them. Why? Because to give them to you is just throwing them away. They're for posters. I'd wish you good luck but you wouldn't know what to do with it if you got it. And to answer you question, pal, why am I here? I came here because the town asked me to. They asked me for a favor. I said the real favor, follow my advice and lynch your f---ing a-- because a lurker is a loser.

[zoraster]

awesome. by the way, if you are wondering what the hell kuribo is going on about:

[kuribo]

That speech can seriously apply to every person in every walk of life.

Any person who takes the proper message from that speech will vastly improve their lives.

(the proper message is "Stop feeling sorry for yourself. The world is a cruel place and only by doing what needs to be done can you ever get ahead. Figure out what you want in life and do what it takes to get it.")

[zoraster]

I mean it's a fantastic performance (as is your rewrite), but I don't think it's particularly compelling as a life lesson.

[Shadi1337]

lold, Kuribo.

[quadz08]

holy shit

brb asking singer if we can make that the new Newbie Guide To Mafia

[T-Bone]

Well if everyone took the attitude of "I'm gonna vote and stop talking" then how does the game of mafia get played?

[MattP]

I mean it's a fantastic performance (as is your rewrite), but I don't think it's particularly compelling as a life lesson.

Mamet is a God among Gods and he did a half decent job at portraying that

fixd yw

edit: also I have a mild distaste for the scenes added to the film adaptation anyway so it's probably a bias

[zoraster]

Dr. Pretention

[MattP]

I'm not pretentious I saw Glenn on Broadway and I thought it was great

Just I hate everything else in the world

[Zachrulez]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22551

Play here for longer than 3 days, preferably a while, then come and tell us how we can do things better. This is a life lesson: don't come into an established place, whether a job, a family, or a forum site and try to tell everyone how they should be doing things on the day of arrival. There are reasons for the things you see, but they're reasons that are best experienced rather than played.

Forum mafia runs on communication. If everyone stopped talking it would completely fail. That's why you have to post.

This basically. I understand where he's coming from... but having played games that have really stagnated, having a prod system is far better than not having one.