Micro 163: Maestro has a Great Idea! (DAY 2)

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: GIF

cause touhous

[borkjerfkin]

Xeg gotta be Xeg, eh?

[borkjerfkin]

wouldn't dream of it.

[borkjerfkin]

yeah that's wonderful

xeg how long you planning on leaving your vote there?

[borkjerfkin]

Idk, till he says something amusing?

This is exactly the response I wanted. Ok.

[borkjerfkin]

Yep.

[borkjerfkin]

Lol how the fuck is that buddying

You did a marginally town thing (being candid with me), I called it good.

Christ.

[borkjerfkin]

yes you should quote my whole ISO and say "look buddying"

9 and 11 were fluff

20 is a question

22 is what I just talked about

what the fuck?

[borkjerfkin]

Ok wake me up when you're done with the shenanigans

[borkjerfkin]

So either we're scum together or both town? How did you come to that conclusion?

[borkjerfkin]

I can't tell how serious you're being so whatever.

[borkjerfkin]

K.

[borkjerfkin]

Why is this a thing

[borkjerfkin]

I think xe is town. I want to put borky in that place too but no, no I won't.

fuck that shit

why not?

[borkjerfkin]

((If that's really what you think, outside of game, sorry))

Otherwise OKIE DOKIE

[borkjerfkin]

cool I found something to put on my wiki page

[borkjerfkin]

And btw, No quick lynches please.

Unvote

I find it odd that you are worried about quick lynches.
I understand that this is a 7p game and so it only takes 4 votes. But surely it would be suicide to quick lynch.

I don't see anything wrong with AA's attitude here, especially in a game like this.

[borkjerfkin]

bork was at rehearsal.

Xeg what are you getting at in #115? Cause it sounds like you're trying to call that omission scummy.

[borkjerfkin]

i knew bork was available

[borkjerfkin]

I think AA9 is town from early posts. Xeg/Mollie I would agree on so far. Xeg moreso than Mollie.

Ferret is noobsomething, but null.

[borkjerfkin]

Sure, I'll give him a weak town for your first point. I call the second point null since it involves a lack of reading.

p-edit: Nobody is pressuring ferret; why not call a spade a spade and say GIF has a townread on ferret?

[borkjerfkin]

How does that help scum, excepting the case where they are scum together?

[borkjerfkin]

I thought her line of questioning in #79 and #83 came from a town point of view (more specifically - that she felt her reasons for doing what she did were self evident and Xeg shouldn't be questioning them)

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

Erm what I said about iso was mentioning his later posts of CURRENT ISO.
So yeah. What you did is a misrep.

or a misunderstanding

[borkjerfkin]

As of my answer to GIF I thought she was town.

I don't like her vote on GIF.

[borkjerfkin]

So are you retracting what you said in #154 or do you still feel this was a scumslip?

[borkjerfkin]

Tbh I thought they were same thing.
/englishismysecondlanguagelol

Except your response to AA9 had a pretty accusatory tone to it.

[borkjerfkin]

What I'm saying is that misrepresentation would be deliberate. And GIF's response to AA9 sounds like an accusation.

[borkjerfkin]

I agree. Doesn't seem that's the page GIF was on in #155.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Mollie

I feel like at least everyone else is at least attempting to do something useful. I don't feel that from this slot.

p-edit: I generally wouldn't vote for a no lynch on D1 in any game.

[borkjerfkin]

I've played with Mollie quite a bit; she usually doesn't fuck around this much and when she probes people there is usually some sort of follow up

[borkjerfkin]

my daughter is in meltdown mode so I'm gonna deal with that, but did you mean how you think he's lying about his experience level?

[borkjerfkin]

bork, yes.

Xeg, I disagree. You'd only want people to think you're new so you could use it to appear like newbtown later.

chk, I don't really agree, mainly because 1) it's a charade that's hard to keep up the whole game and 2) I don't see any inherent scum motivation for it

I don't understand the assertion that if we write him off as a newb that we're necessarily writing him off as newbtown.

[borkjerfkin]

GIF you're being dodgy as fuck about calling Xeg scum for....what exactly?

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah no, #201 was an exasperated response to #170, where you got up in his shit for ruining your test.

[borkjerfkin]

annoyed

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not confident enough here to want to lynch GIF right now -- I think his points against you are somewhat obtuse, but I also don't think a obvfake dayvig on D1 is any sort of scumtell like you do.

I can't stop you with an unvote as I'm not on the wagon.

[borkjerfkin]

Ferret?

[borkjerfkin]

Sweet.

Let's lynch mollie.

[borkjerfkin]

dude read

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

I don't even understand what you're asking me

[borkjerfkin]

Just look at like any Mollie game ever: she's competent. My beef with her isn't meta based; her attacks are hollow and she's not following up her inquiries with anything.

[borkjerfkin]

Truthfully I didn't read #206 as a loaded question/disguised jab when I answered it, mostly because it did not occur to me that he'd really think that about her -- I thought he was really asking in earnest.

[borkjerfkin]

uh?

[borkjerfkin]

uh?

[borkjerfkin]

I think we should lynch outside of the claimed Masons today just because if they're town scum pretty much have to kill them soon or risk an innocent investigation on them which gives 3 confirmed town.

Any way you slice it scum claiming mason pair is a ballsy as shit play.

That and Mollie has done nothing but try to snark people into not pressuring her.

[borkjerfkin]

couldn't it be like 6 town vs 1 scum?

[borkjerfkin]

all kills would happen simultaneously, AFAIK - that's how other games work

[borkjerfkin]

bunch of dead guys

[borkjerfkin]

yep. same deal if we've got a kill on our side too.

[borkjerfkin]

you know what they say about people who assume

btw I believe the mason claim more because of ferret's last post.

[borkjerfkin]

also the fact that I guessed the partner before GIF even told me

if they're lying then I got fucking played. I don't think that happened.

[borkjerfkin]

The fact that he didn't think a vig could be in the game means he's not paying attention to the setup and trying to game it. Meaning he didn't look at it prior to the claim, see that mason was possible, and prepare on claiming it with GIF.

This makes it more likely to me that they are, in fact, really masons.

[borkjerfkin]

That was a scum daykill (look at the setup thing I linked earlier).

I'm honestly surprised that didn't just happen at start of game.

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway you two are town, so at least 1 of Mollie, Xeg, Arc is scum. I don't think it's Xeg.

[borkjerfkin]

lol

Also please prod AA9

[borkjerfkin]

...that's all you got?

[borkjerfkin]

I think we'll have a clearer picture on GIF/Ferret tomorrow, even if we lynch outside of that group.

I'd lynch Mollie or AA. I don't have particularly strong reads on either; Mollie hasn't done a damn thing the whole game, and AA9 is very much doing nothing right now (although I thought she was somewhat pro-town earlier, but that doesn't explain her fade.) I'd expect scum to be clamming up right now in the wake of that dayvig, and AA has proven she's around. I'm fairly sure Mollie is just not online right now.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah, they would, regardless of alignment, I would think. Why?

[borkjerfkin]

Oh fuck, I just realized

Werewolves can fucking be masons in this (well, 1 could)

Mod: what would happen if Town Mason and Werewolf Mason were both pulled? Would they be grouped together and not told true alignment? How does that even work?

[borkjerfkin]

@Mod, that's great, but would the masons be told straight up that their partners are town masons? or would they just say "mason"

I'm pretty sure we're entitled to know this.

[borkjerfkin]

@AA

meet Elena

Spoiler:

[borkjerfkin]

year and a half

[borkjerfkin]

@Mollie -- I didn't see that you asked me a question.

If you mean #289 -- #146, #269, #279, #280 all make it look like you're trying to make your target feel like a jackass rather than make a point.

Anyway, I want ferret to verify that his role PM guaranteed his partner was a TOWN mason. We know that they're definitely not Mafia, but one could be a wolf.

AA9 is ridiculously genuine in her references to chkflip post kill and therefore is definitely not the one responsible for the kill. The masons are not scum either. I don't think Mollie was around today, and therefore:

VOTE: Xegarus

PoE, and #324, #327 actually do look like playing dumb.

[borkjerfkin]

hhhhmmm...makes me wonder why you are viewing everything I say in the worst possible light. might not be game-related though and I am sticking with my read on you.

I don't have any out of game grudge against you, if that's what you're implying, and I'm not sure why you would think I did. I thought you were trying to shut people down early game by being abrasive. You're not doing it now and I've got bigger fish to fry.

I have seen her play dumb as scum before but you were on her team in that game so I will take what you say into consideration.

Honestly, trust me here -- Arc's continuation as if chkflip were alive was seamless. She didn't make this kill.

[borkjerfkin]

Being abrasive while making a point is one thing, but you're not making any points. There is no analysis in any of those posts, just cryptic one liners and snark. Prior to #291 I honestly had no idea where you stood on

anything.

You say you think your point was made - what point?

[borkjerfkin]

Who is trying to manufacture a case? Seriously, explain your shit better. What were you trying to say about your reaction test in #279? What does #269 even mean? You asked me what I thought about Arc and never responded to my answer.

I'm tired of you using "I should know you better" as an excuse in every game we're in together. The fact is I have zero reason to read you as town right now because you're not fucking explaining anything.

[borkjerfkin]

No, I'm pretty fucking town

and you're giving out a bunch of nonanswers

[borkjerfkin]

first I was suspect cos I was abrasive. blew that one out of the water.

That's not what I said:

That and Mollie has done nothing but try to snark people into not pressuring her.

#146, #269, #279, #280 all make it look like you're trying to make your target feel like a jackass rather than make a point.

I said you were being abrasive to the end of getting people not to interact with you, as people generally don't like being actively antagonized.

I'm not going to belabor the point -- if you think you were being helpful and easy to read early game I don't know what to tell you, because you weren't. You're engaging me now and I like that, but I still don't have a very good feel for you this game.

Why am I insisting on going down this trajectory? Because I don't understand most of your posts. I'll organize what I don't understand here:

1) Re: your reaction test: yes, I understand that it was a reaction test. That tells me nothing. What were you testing and how was the response?
2) I seriously just don't understand #269 at all and I don't know what "flow of the convo" means or how it works as an explanation. If it was a flippant comment then fine, but GIF didn't understand it either.
3) (Not terribly relevant anymore due to claims, but I asked this earlier) what is the difference between white knighting and just defending a townread?

[borkjerfkin]

Xeg replaced out of other games too. I still think he's the shooter.

[borkjerfkin]

Ok, I'm back to straight up believing their claim.

[borkjerfkin]

If I didn't answer something it's because I didn't see it. Sec.

[borkjerfkin]

with 6 live.. 1 mislynch and 1 night kill... it will be 2:2
BORK, do you believe GIF & Ferret mason claim.. . ?

This? I already mentioned that I do. Otherwise I have no idea what you want me to answer.

[borkjerfkin]

And yeah this is a swingy as balls game and I'm aware of the risks. That's why I'm evaluating the viability of the claim itself rather than hedging the risks of what happens if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong either way we're pretty fucked.

[borkjerfkin]

I see what you're saying AA.

Yeah they would gain parity if we mislynched today and they were both Mafia.

On the other hand, if they're legit, and 2 of (Xeg, Mollie, AA) are scum aligned together, THAT faction gains parity tomorrow if we lynch a mason.

So I don't see how there's a clear roadmap that guarantees not to end the game in a loss today.

[borkjerfkin]

I am V/LA Friday morning - Sunday evening

[borkjerfkin]

some people get me and some people don't. we have at least a couple of completed games together and they were long ones too, so it isn't like you don't have a baseline for understanding. go read the first few pages in the posh game.

I was also scum in many of those so I didn't really care what you did -- I hate to self-meta but I get off to a rocky start with you whenever I'm town (look at Micro 99, open 459, etc). I've also never seen your scum game so I have nothing to compare to this.

[Reaction Test]...this is what puzzles me, is what exactly are you not about this? like how are you not getting it?

You weren't clear that that GIF post was related to this. Ok.

I was following chikflip's lead and then made a joke. again how is it that you are not getting this.

Could've just said it was a joke. Ok.

wking is what scum do and defending a town read is what town do. does that answer your question?

Well, that's a tautology; you can't use that as a reason for someone being scum if you can't tell the two apart by anything other than a flip on that person. Since you believe the mason claim, I don't really see a reason to continue this line of questioning.

Let's lynch Xeg; assuming the mason claim is legit, I'm seriously like 75% certain he shot chk out of (you/AA/Xeg)

[borkjerfkin]

we should talk about booze

booze is great

[borkjerfkin]

you're also town

that's fucking cool

vote xeg

[borkjerfkin]

not at all mollie

[borkjerfkin]

read #340

[borkjerfkin]

and #344

she did not know

[borkjerfkin]

Stop it Arc. You're town, just be content that she'll figure it out.

[borkjerfkin]

No

[borkjerfkin]

Probably one:

I believe you are town.

Mollie is kinda doing her town meta thing, but if there are two it's her by PoE.

Xeg is probscum.

I don't think mason claims are scum. Therefore one is most likely.

[borkjerfkin]

Lol did he just straight up admit to killing chkflip?

Bye

[borkjerfkin]

Oh I can guess too.

My guess wouldn't be bullshit though.

[borkjerfkin]

btw who is your buddy?

[borkjerfkin]

Was worth a shot.

But yeah Arc hammer away

[borkjerfkin]

Yep, and I also think AA is town

[borkjerfkin]

Sure. Start the popcorn.

[borkjerfkin]

I am a seer - I checked mollie for werewolf-ity last night and she isn't one.

My scenarios (in order of high to low probabilities):

1) AA is full of crap and is a werewolf -- supersaint does not do what she says it does, and IMO there's no reason to think that Maestro would have changed the role to be a supersaint-bomb (and he won't tell me shit about it). I do NOT think she is mafia aligned with Xeg because her confusion to the chkflip kill looked genuine, and she's not an SK if mollie is town.
2) mollie is an SK (more likely than mafia since she totally discounted the possibility of another mafia/a werewolf, which she had no reason to do, because SK is on the brain for her)
3) mollie is mafia aligned with Xeg. See 2) for why this is less likely than it.
4) GIF is a werewolf mason. Doubted this from the start and I still doubt it.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not an SK. For re-emphasis:

2) mollie is an SK (more likely than mafia since

she totally discounted the possibility of another mafia/a werewolf

, which she had no reason to do, because SK is on the brain for her)

AA9 you wanna change your tune or what? I don't believe you are a supersaint-bomb.

[borkjerfkin]

Actually I think two questions can very much put this to rest:

1) What can you tell me about the setup we're playing?
2) Where is your crumb?

[borkjerfkin]

I

did

ask Maestro. He won't tell me shit.

From that same article: "A Super Saint is a Vengeful Townie who only kills the person who placed the hammer vote (they do not get to choose). The Super Saint is notably featured in the mafia variant SS3."

Says nothing about this person being a nightkill bomb. I don't think Maestro is that sloppy.

[borkjerfkin]

I did read the damn link. There is "vengeful" which can mean anything that reflexively kills, and "supersaint" which means one specific thing as a subset of that. A thing that is not what you claimed.

[borkjerfkin]

I can't tell if Mollie is playing me or not with her setup ignorance

[borkjerfkin]

That crumb kinda sucks, btw.

[borkjerfkin]

You're scum.

You're calling a piece of advice for something you should do every game pre-flip a "crumb".

Half the time you're guaranteeing the existence of an SK even though as town

you should have no idea there even IS an SK

due to the setup. Reading back, you slipped and said "If we have one" in #490. All you supposedly know is that ArcAngel ISN'T an SK. This is feigned ignorance.

If Maestro actually fucked up the supersaint role and made it something different than I've seen it used EVERY time I've seen it then I'm going to have words post-game.

VOTE: Mollie

[borkjerfkin]

Nice deflection. Keep waffling about your knowledge of the gamestate and how many scum there are.

[borkjerfkin]

fbi agent. I viewed arc last night. she isn't an SK.

I am pretty confused about my role. the SK has got to be borky

it is arc or borky today, arc is scum and borky is the SK

Might be? You're telling the truth that you know there is one, and the only reason you know is because it's you.

Your AA read is tenuous and unexplained. You thought she was scum pretty definitively in #498, now you don't know? She hasn't posted basically anything of interest between that change.

Lynch this.

[borkjerfkin]

So I'm wondering why someone killed ferret, not me.

WIFOM dickery?

[borkjerfkin]

Most likely - I doubt both would have collided on Ferret.

Oh hey now Mollie is sure there's an SK again. Bloop.

p-edit: it's probably a solo mollie show and AA is doing some gambit as she is wont to do, or Maestro fucked up. That's a dumb thing to claim at MyLo as scum (although it's smarter at LyLo)

[borkjerfkin]

I feel like Mollie would have just claimed a guilty on me if she were a lyncher on me. This is more subtle.

[borkjerfkin]

cool man

[borkjerfkin]

Wait did it really say "Nervous Saint" in your role PM? I thought you just mistranscribed it.

[borkjerfkin]

That is not in the great idea role list. That is not anywhere on the wiki at all.

So either Maestro just randomly reworded a role for no reason.
Or you are BSing us.

VOTE: AA

[borkjerfkin]

If you expect me to believe a totally fake role name that you just made up, I don't know what to tell you. I'll hammer you if it comes to that but if you're town you're handing Mollie the win.

[borkjerfkin]

Making up a role is not your town play. There's no fucking way Maestro just arbitrarily changed the setup and made a new name for a role. He didn't do that with anyone else's role.

Test my resolve on this. I dare you.

[borkjerfkin]

mollie please get it through your hypothetical town head that

there is not guaranteed to be an SK in the game. Roles are drawn randomly.

Jesus christ.

[borkjerfkin]

All I know is that I think you're fakeclaiming, irrespective of what I think about mollie's alignment. If there are two scum left then town is essentially playing kingmaker on which scum faction gets to win -- if you're both scum then one of you has already won.

Why is mollie scummier than I to you?

[borkjerfkin]

I am town.

Besides, I think you're supposed to reroll great idea if you get <%50 town.

whoops

[borkjerfkin]

Maestro pretty much just confirmed that AA is lying.

What now?

[borkjerfkin]

...you're a fucking SK aren't you?

[borkjerfkin]

Ok, we won then.

Sorry, that looked like a quickhammer.

And yes, I do suck at reading you. I've seriously never seen you play scum.

[borkjerfkin]

I couldn't have done it without you AA. I have no idea why you did what you did.

[borkjerfkin]

Lolololol.

If I were the other SK (the mafia immune one) I'd have probably tried to save you.

[borkjerfkin]

What she should have done is to claim VT or something then tried to act scummy. I'd have quickhammered her and died, but there was no way I was touching her with that SS claim in the open.

[borkjerfkin]

This also keeps the streak alive that I've been scum in every single game I've ever played with AA9.

[borkjerfkin]

that's not very nice

[borkjerfkin]

If I were town I'd probably have thought you were town just because I know you're prone to fakeclaim gambits

That doesn't make them a good idea, especially when you make up a role.

[borkjerfkin]

Like, how did your gambit potentially help town? I don't see how it would. I'd have not been afraid to nightkill you because I knew that role was bunk.

[borkjerfkin]

I can't even say that bork played a good game, though.

He won because ArcAngel is... I just... I can't.

huh!!!!!!!!!

You're just determined to rain on my parade today, aren't you?

[borkjerfkin]

Actually the more I think about it, supersaint is a good role to fakeclaim something else -- but you didn't handle it well. You basically should've claimed VT or something non-threatening and tried to act somewhat scummy.

I'd not have hesitated to quickhammer you and I'd have gotten blown up.

[borkjerfkin]

Actually I just killed the one of you I thought was less likely to draw protection

[borkjerfkin]

I had no idea ferret was suspecting me at all.

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

dude