Mini 1452 - Inevitable Mafia (Game Over)

[Yates]

THERE ARE/COULD BE BETTER LYNCHES

Like TMT. And CoolDog.

[Does Bo Know]

Yes.

Are you agreeing Yates? Or are you picking at how eager I am to target those players? (I understand I'm being loud about other lynches but that's because I'm trying my hardest to keep players from only focusing on DCL when there should be more than one scum.)

[Yates]

DCL isn't scum. With that stated, I obviously agree that there are better lynches than DCL. Two lynch candidates I like better than DCL are TMT and CoolDog. I like TMT and CoolDog for numerous reasons. Most recently I like them as scum for an obvious role fishing attempt while trying to make it sound proTown.

[Rob14]

^ Why am I not in that list if you're going after those who supported a partner-reveal?

[Yates]

You didn't support it - you proposed it. Being wrong or having a bad idea isn't inherently as scummy as the people following the wrong information or bad idea.

You require further scrutiny and therefore aren't a Town read if that makes you feel better?

[Rob14]

No, I blatantly pushed it until like a page ago.

[Yates]

Being wrong or having a bad idea isn't inherently as scummy as the people following the wrong information or bad idea.

[ThAdmiral]

Like the guy's vote has been on DCL because DCL was subtly pushing a lynch on TMT, even though DCL is very clearly claiming TMT is scummy and voting him.

This is actually slightly misrepresentative.
He voted dcl in the rvs stage and never moved his vote off. In fact he seemed unsure of the case on dcl and it was his interpretation of other peoples arguments that dcl was subtly pushing him, rather than his own case.
He seems a bit lurky, a bit inexperienced. Not lynch worthy yet for me.

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

UNVOTE:

look townie by participating in Mason discussion

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

And then TMT stops confronting me about my vote.

Clarify, please.

And that Yates callout from TMT was very, very good.

I really do hate to say it, but it looks like a scumtell to me, because after Yates' 248 it looks like Rob is grasping at straws.

DCL isn't scum. With that stated, I obviously agree that there are better lynches than DCL. Two lynch candidates I like better than DCL are TMT and CoolDog. I like TMT and CoolDog for numerous reasons. Most recently I like them as scum for an obvious role fishing attempt while trying to make it sound proTown.

A role fishing attempt? You're saying I'm making an obvious role fishing attempt for a Mason?
And you seem to be ignoring Radiant's push for the mason out, which makes it look like you're gunning for me and ignoring other people in the process.

3. I will absolutely not reveal who that person is day 1. I will explain that more later today but there is no good reason for me to be outing my partner at this point.
4. If I were to die before naming my partner, at latest he or she should claim the day before lylo is likely to occur.

There is a very good reason for us to want you to out your partner today. If you are mason as you claim, then that gives us a clear assuming one of you dies tonight without the possibility of a counterclaim. If you're scum, then you have to throw one of your partners under the bus, which in the likely chance this save has at least one investigative role allows us to confirm both of your identities. In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity, because if scum knows you're telling the truth, they'll kill you tonight and then your partner will function as a counterclaimable named townie; mostly useless. However, if you out your partner then you will still die tonight, but then we have a confirmed clear tomorrow to lead us. Also, if you continue to not out your partner, I will continue to vote you and push for your lynch, and I will make damn sure that no votes are getting split; it's me or you, and if I get lynched, fine, but I promise that you will lose your head tomorrow.

Why is radiant self-voting?

Because why not.

Uh, what the fuck? Looks to me like a weak attempt to towntell.

@everyone else, stop letting DCL divert attention with the shitty wagon on me. Rob is also a strong contender for partner status, making DCL/Rob potentially two members of a 3 person scumteam. His responses to the pressure on him sucked elephant dick and he doesn't do anything for town except strut around playing passively while acting like his mason claim makes him confirmed town.

This accusation really doesn't make sense to me and looks like namedropping.

VOTE: Radiant

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

UNVOTE:

look townie by participating in Mason discussion

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

And then TMT stops confronting me about my vote.

Clarify

And that Yates callout from TMT was very, very good.

I really do hate to say it, but it looks like a scumtell to me, because after Yates' 248 it looks like Rob is grasping at straws.

DCL isn't scum. With that stated, I obviously agree that there are better lynches than DCL. Two lynch candidates I like better than DCL are TMT and CoolDog. I like TMT and CoolDog for numerous reasons. Most recently I like them as scum for an obvious role fishing attempt while trying to make it sound proTown.

A role fishing attempt? You're saying I'm making an obvious role fishing attempt for a Mason?
And you seem to be ignoring Radiant's push for the mason out, which makes it look like you're gunning for me and ignoring other people in the process.

3. I will absolutely not reveal who that person is day 1. I will explain that more later today but there is no good reason for me to be outing my partner at this point.
4. If I were to die before naming my partner, at latest he or she should claim the day before lylo is likely to occur.

There is a very good reason for us to want you to out your partner today. If you are mason as you claim, then that gives us a clear assuming one of you dies tonight without the possibility of a counterclaim. If you're scum, then you have to throw one of your partners under the bus, which in the likely chance this save has at least one investigative role allows us to confirm both of your identities. In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity, because if scum knows you're telling the truth, they'll kill you tonight and then your partner will function as a counterclaimable named townie; mostly useless. However, if you out your partner then you will still die tonight, but then we have a confirmed clear tomorrow to lead us. Also, if you continue to not out your partner, I will continue to vote you and push for your lynch, and I will make damn sure that no votes are getting split; it's me or you, and if I get lynched, fine, but I promise that you will lose your head tomorrow.

Why is radiant self-voting?

Because why not.

Uh, what the fuck? Looks to me like a weak attempt to towntell.

@everyone else, stop letting DCL divert attention with the shitty wagon on me. Rob is also a strong contender for partner status, making DCL/Rob potentially two members of a 3 person scumteam. His responses to the pressure on him sucked elephant dick and he doesn't do anything for town except strut around playing passively while acting like his mason claim makes him confirmed town.

This accusation really doesn't make sense to me and looks like namedropping.

VOTE: Radiant

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

look townie by participating in Mason discussion

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

And then TMT stops confronting me about my vote.

Clarify

And that Yates callout from TMT was very, very good.

I really do hate to say it, but it looks like a scumtell to me, because after Yates' 248 it looks like Rob is grasping at straws.

DCL isn't scum. With that stated, I obviously agree that there are better lynches than DCL. Two lynch candidates I like better than DCL are TMT and CoolDog. I like TMT and CoolDog for numerous reasons. Most recently I like them as scum for an obvious role fishing attempt while trying to make it sound proTown.

A role fishing attempt? You're saying I'm making an obvious role fishing attempt for a Mason?
And you seem to be ignoring Radiant's push for the mason out, which makes it look like you're gunning for me and ignoring other people in the process.

3. I will absolutely not reveal who that person is day 1. I will explain that more later today but there is no good reason for me to be outing my partner at this point.
4. If I were to die before naming my partner, at latest he or she should claim the day before lylo is likely to occur.

There is a very good reason for us to want you to out your partner today. If you are mason as you claim, then that gives us a clear assuming one of you dies tonight without the possibility of a counterclaim. If you're scum, then you have to throw one of your partners under the bus, which in the likely chance this save has at least one investigative role allows us to confirm both of your identities. In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity, because if scum knows you're telling the truth, they'll kill you tonight and then your partner will function as a counterclaimable named townie; mostly useless. However, if you out your partner then you will still die tonight, but then we have a confirmed clear tomorrow to lead us. Also, if you continue to not out your partner, I will continue to vote you and push for your lynch, and I will make damn sure that no votes are getting split; it's me or you, and if I get lynched, fine, but I promise that you will lose your head tomorrow.

Why is radiant self-voting?

Because why not.

Uh, what the fuck? Looks to me like a weak attempt to towntell.

@everyone else, stop letting DCL divert attention with the shitty wagon on me. Rob is also a strong contender for partner status, making DCL/Rob potentially two members of a 3 person scumteam. His responses to the pressure on him sucked elephant dick and he doesn't do anything for town except strut around playing passively while acting like his mason claim makes him confirmed town.

This accusation really doesn't make sense to me and looks like namedropping.

VOTE: Radiant

This post triggered my alarm bells, and others have been pushing for his lynch, so I did a full ISO of him to be sure.

1452 are the digits of my address number

I used to live in Austin

Kitoari what is this WHAT IS THIS

Null. No one had really moved past RVS at this moment but neither did he push to end it.

VOTE: DCLXVI

All caps username competitor

Also roman numerals are dead get over it

Except for Super Bowl

[quote='Does Bo Know"]The only players I know in this game are Jmo and TMT.

Way to throw a pal under the bus then, bro[/quote]

Interesting that his supposed RVS stage targets the person who would be a target for most of the day. I've noticed that scum tend to RVS their partners; perhaps this could indicate that TMT/DCLXVI is a scumteam, but if DCL is indeed mason, TMT is probably not the mason. Scummy, but possibly coincidental.

Well not I'm embarrassed for messing up the quotes

Slightly town. Mafia generally apologize for things like that, to seem compliant.

I'm not an alt. I'm new to forum mafia.

Irrelevant.

Someone, please let me know what I did. I feel like it's one of those situations where people are talking behind your back, but in a way so that you can hear snatches of the conversation.

This is where we start to look scummy. Town are generally disinterested in cases upon them, except for the purposes of figuring out who could be legitimately scumhunting or who is simply throwing out a random lynch. This looks like he's on the defensive, and trying to be compliant like I asid above.

Note that I am reading the last 3 pages and formulating a response. Please stand by

Null, since his follow up post justified the prod dodger.

Splitting up his next post.

I understand your reasoning, but I really didn't realize that we were out of RVS. And that doesn't explain DBK's reasoning.

Not realizing that we were out of RVS shows inattentivity, which shows that he is not scumhunting. So, either extremely lazy townie or scum who doesn't need to do anything.

Note I say this with extreme caution lest you believe that the frivolous content of this is an anti-town action, but Doctor Who is a great show.

Refusing to get into WIFOM on this point.

Also, from that I understand, DCL is being called scum because

1. Confidence in gorkcat being town
2. Subtly pushing lynch on yours truly
3. Dodging questions

I really only think number 2 is a legit scumread on DCL, unless I missed something.

This is wrong. He had no reason to believe that gorkcat was being town, and dodging questions is generally scummy in its own right, whereas subtly pushing on you is only scummy if he has no or sloppy justification for it. Why are you so defensive that you think that pushing on you makes someone scum but doing scummy things is something you're ok with?

Also, DBK, I'm still interested in your vote on me, as it obviously has to be different from Rob's, because you made it clear that you thought I was scum before I posted my mistimed RVS vote. You said you would explain, so please do so.

Null, leaning scum. A town explanation could be he wanted to read DBK's explanation to figure out if he was scum, but it's more likely that he's just overly concerned with self preservation, and by extension the arguments against him.

I'm not sure about this, but I don't like that mason claim, partly because masons were discussed earlier in the game...
Should we get the other mason to confirm?

Why is radiant self-voting?

Very scummy. He's being compliant and asking others for their opinions, instead of having the balls to decide for himself what he thinks is best for the town.

Also, every single person in the game noticed that I was self voting. No one else commented because no one cared; it's irrelevant, and everyone else realized that it didn't matter. It seems to me like you're trying to look like you're scumhunting by pointing out things, even if they're meaningless.

Anyway, I think Does Bo Know is scum.

Nearly no content posts, almost all fluff.
Pushes me early with no explanation.
Very mitigated statements.
I'll make my verdict after Bo's catch up post.

Ok, so Bo's catch up post happened.

I can't agree with any of the comments on DBK, but I do feel the need to point out that his OMGUS only extended to the person with the weaker argument for the lynch; that looks like town trying to figure out which scum are on their wagon.

Other content-
JMO is scum because his inconsistency
DCL is probably town but could be scum (again, mitigation)
Rob is town but you say "Bad bad bad" (what?!)

I disagree with two of those reads, but they do have substance behind them. Slightly town.

really do agree with rob in the other mason claiming.

If dcl is mason, then we'll have confirmed town tomorrow.
If dcl is scum, we'll have confirmed scum or two tomorrow.

Quite scummy that you're not willing to say that and have it stand on your own shoulders.

Yates. So you think that asking the mason partner to claim is a reasonable request, as per your #200.

And yet when I say that I think the other mason should claim it's the so called "straw on the camel's back" that makes you vote me?

Overall a good point, even if the self preservation instinct does look slightly scummy.

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

Scumdar triggered. Only scum need to point out that their thought process isn't scummy in this manner; it's not argumentative, it's just matter of fact. Especially in a situation like this where multiple people all agreed the partner should out, I don't see why a town player would feel the need to talk about their thought process with such a decision.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

I find your lack of original content disturbing.

I really do hate to say it, but it looks like a scumtell to me, because after Yates' 248 it looks like Rob is grasping at straws

Perhaps. Do you find ANYONE to look town?

A role fishing attempt? You're saying I'm making an obvious role fishing attempt for a Mason?
And you seem to be ignoring Radiant's push for the mason out, which makes it look like you're gunning for me and ignoring other people in the process.

Bingo, but perhaps he's doing so because your push is corroborated by other evidence of your scumminess? This looks town however, because town are less likely to be able to understand arguments against them, because they know they are town.

Uh, what the fuck? Looks to me like a weak attempt to towntell.

Again, you're wasting time pointing out something that everyone else realized was irrelevant. So either you're inexperienced, or you're scum. The fact that you think that my selfvoting has made me scummier than any other person in the game leans towards the former though; I can't see scum pushing a wagon for this reason.

This accusation really doesn't make sense to me and looks like namedropping.

VOTE: Radiant

Do you even know what namedropping is?



Summary: Either very inexperienced town or relatively inexperienced scum.
I really think he just doesn't really know what he's doing, explaining the self preservation and sheeping, so I support the CoolDog and DCLXVI wagons more than I support this one.

My vote stays where it is for now.

@Radiant: What do you think of CoolDog wanting to lynch DCL even if he claims a mason partner and the partner confirms?

Very scummy. The value to town of having one mason left alive is almost null, because the remainder is almost certainly going to be killed that night anyway. Lynching DCL without him naming a partner makes sense, because that leaves the partner free to claim before lylo and give us a confirmed clear on any date. If he names a partner, it makes more sense to leave him alive for now, and who knows? If they're both scum, maybe a cop will check them and give us two confirmed scum at once.

At this time, I still support a DCLXVI lynch and a CoolDog lynch. Unless I see something else from TMT that makes me think he's scum, I am not willing to support that wagon unless the choice is TMT or a NL.

[RadiantCowbells]

I fucked up the formatting, but hopefully you guys can figure it out.

[Rob14]

You called TMT very scummy several times. Why are you not willing to lynch him?

[Rob14]

Also, what specifically did you find scummy in TMT's wall? You quoted the whole thing and said it made you check his ISO. Why? Be specific.

[RadiantCowbells]

The major thing that made me check him was the fact that he voted me with really shitty justification.

But after reading what he's posted so far, I'm more inclined to consider him just an inexperienced player in general, and I think that if he was scum, he would have made many more obvious scumslips than he has so far.

Also, most of what I read that made me lean town was his excessive self preservation focus and his misguided push on me, which can also be attributed to him just being a new player.

I wouldn't strongly object to the lynch normally, because I think he's useless to town unless he's a PR, but as DBK said, there are much better lynches today. Hell, I'd rather lynch at least half of the game over him, most notably CoolDog and DCLXVI.

Furthermore, TMT isn't the only person voting me, and he at least gave rationale; I don't like the fact that anyone is trying to wagon me right now, and I'm still trying to decide whether the others are misguided town or scum trying to avoid attracting attention by sitting on an side wagon. That includes you too, by the way, but, for now, I consider you fairly town. Your current vote still sucks, though.


Last thing: I said his posts were scummy, not he was. Scummy is here defined as coming from a non pro-town viewpoint, but there's the mitigating factor of him being inexperienced and not understanding that win condition, and so not acting in that self interest as I would typically understand it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, can we get a vote count either at the top of this page or in an individual post?

[gorckat]

v/la 48 hours. Might be taking the spouse back to the doctors and have a load of work put off during her recent hospital stays hanging over my head.

[BROseidon]

no, because we need to know if there are masons. We don't want a 2/3 chance of hitting scum.

2/3 is bad? Wat?

As scum, I would absolutely gamble, in a 4 v 3 LYLO, on having a scum bud claim. Get caught out and you are now gonna have a quick 3 v 2 day then go 2 v 1, texbook lylo. Not shabby.

Which is why second mason claims BEFORE LYLO.

@CoolDoG what is your opinion of TMT?

@TMT what is your opinion of CoolDoG?

[Does Bo Know]

@ThAdmiral: TMT did

keep

the random vote on DCL, but since then, hadn't really expressed any other scumreads of his besides people on his own wagon. Earlier, he stated the "general" scum case on DCL at the time, before the Mason shit, and said that only point 2 held some merit. And since TMT didn't show intention on unvoting or changing the vote, it looked like TMT still thought DCL was scum, and that only point 2 was TMT's case on him. Which is incredibly biased and defensive.

look townie by participating in Mason discussion

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

WIFOM. Also, your 150 was the first time you brought up your opinion of the Mason claim. But you state an opinion, and then ask a question asking if the other Mason should confirm. How can you not see anything that changes that opinion, when you were asking people as if they could sway your opinion?

And then TMT stops confronting me about my vote.

Clarify, please.

Well, this isn't exactly a scumpoint against you; it's that as soon as I refute my vote against you, your next post is asking the next person on your wagon why their vote is on you. It's like you give up when one person is solidly on your wagon, and again, instead of looking for scum to hunt, you're focused on your wagon. Granted, Yates's reasoning was off, you still hadn't exactly done anything to advance scumhunting.

However, you're starting to actually look at things that aren't directly related to you. You seem to catch things that Yates and Radiant are saying.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CooLDoG

[RadiantCowbells]

I am certain there is at least one scum on my wagon and need to reassess my reads on Nhammen and Rob13.

When I get back tonight there will be more on this.

[Rob14]

TBK - you seem to think that focusing on your own wagon is a scumtell. Why are you not all over Radiant based on that? I mean, he's done nothing but opportunistic voting and focusing on his own wagon.

[Does Bo Know]

TMT was only focusing on his own wagon to come to conclusions, and saying their reasons for voting him were scumtells. Not the case anymore, but it was the case earlier.

Radiant looked at people on his wagon, and came up with some conclusions not related to their votes on him.

Granted, I'm still unsure about Radiant being town or scum.

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

Slightly town. Mafia generally apologize for things like that, to seem compliant.

Is this not contradictory?

[gorckat]

vote:radiant

Phone at the er, wife pending admission.

Skimming during day as i could. Dont like the lack of dcl lynch selling being done. Lots of focus on others and linking og rob-dcl way thin.

[Kitoari]

Roflcopter replaces guru guru.