Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)


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Post Post #3250 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 10:38 am

Post by Remembrance »

That was impossible to discern from how you wrote that. I thought you were asking Kuror0.

Associative tells are false. Some specific reasons that come though my head is that Kuror0 coached me in my last newbie game, the whole time, constantly warning me of my over confidence in my reads and such. Also, scum tend to coach inside of the scum chat, so that's definitely a jump. Do you coach in thread when you're scum? Or do you wait and bus when appropriate? If you want you can find Nacho's post where he links to my town game, here Rem town. in that thread you have Kuror0, giving me advice the whole way through, and we're both town. A lot of what Kuror0 is saying in regards to me is referencing that game. And there was a huge argument about town hunting in that game, it was very much a strange game where I was trying out a style that was extremely scummy. And it confused a lot of people. I'd also say that you're using the wrong word, that isn't town reading (he only did that more recently) he was at first fence sitting and then it gradually progressed to town. Similar to his gradual progression from null-Nacho to town Nacho.


Can you explain your Se-Asians scum read? Or did I miss it somewhere?

kuror0 (L-3): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-2): kuror0, Remembrance
jon_h61 (L-3): pirate mollie

Not Voting: buldermar, SE-Asians, jon_h61

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is on Thursday, May 30th, at 10:00 PM EST.
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Post Post #3251 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 10:39 am

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 3246, buldermar wrote:
In post 3231, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 3204, buldermar wrote:mollie, why do you want to lynch jon now as opposed to tomorrow? I don't see any drawbacks in postponing lynching him a day (assuming that we were otherwise going to lynch him today) - do you?
I see what you are saying. I have you and rememory as for sure town otherwise I am wandering in the dark. what is your read on IaI and also can tell me what that big combo posting said it was tl;dr for me :P
I didn't carefully read it either. I saw it was full of self-meta and got demotivated.

I think I may have caught IAI in a scumslip, but we'll see. I'll summarize:

IAI said in a post that he was looking into who "pushed Rubi to claim".
I checked his ISO. Coincidentally,
he
was the one asking Rubi to claim when Rubi was on L-1.
I confronted him with this, and he stated that he, by looking into who pushed Rubi to claim, meant to look into who pushed Rubi to L-1 because being on L-1 automatically justifies asking the person on L-1 to claim, perhaps accidental hammers do happen (this was his excuse, which I'm not convinced I buy).
Right now I'm awaiting that he identify a single post in which he pointed out that he was only asking Rubi to claim because Rubi was on L-1, because I don't trust that he didn't simply forget he was the one pushing Rubi to claim (which would be a scumslip).

I think very likely the two scum will be in Rubi-slot, kuro and IAI. I think we shouldn't lynch Rubi-slot today for reasons already explained, so that makes it an option between IAI and kuro. I still have to look more into kuro as well.
okay. I was leaning towards IaI too.
whew!
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Post Post #3252 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 10:43 am

Post by jon_h61 »

Remembrance, say I buy that you're Town. What do you think about the posts where I pointed out kuror0 scum reading our dead Townies?
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Post Post #3253 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 10:53 am

Post by jon_h61 »

In post 3234, jon_h61 wrote:I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.
I screwed up, I did mean kuror0. I was reading back over the last page and caught that. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post Post #3254 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 11:05 am

Post by Remembrance »

It's by no means bad. I'm thinking about it. In general you're right, usually Kuror0 pushes at least one lynch per game, but he has acted weak before (my first newbie game for example where he didn't really take a stand at the end) I don't mind if you think I'm town or not, the only thing that bothers me about it is that 1. if the scum do something dumb and let you live we end up with with "rem is town" which doesn't help me much. And your contributions now, which won't amount to much if you have me as a scum read and I'm like, "Well, I'm not :neutral: ."

Kuror0 is something I have been thinking about a lot. I've isoed him three times and each time I looked at what got you confused, a natural progression that landed with him leaning town. I want to ask you something though, in the context of those words he used on Wisdom, do you think them inappropriate? What do you think of Kuror0's response to what Fate said about him?
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Post Post #3255 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 11:53 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3251, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 3246, buldermar wrote:
In post 3231, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 3204, buldermar wrote:mollie, why do you want to lynch jon now as opposed to tomorrow? I don't see any drawbacks in postponing lynching him a day (assuming that we were otherwise going to lynch him today) - do you?
I see what you are saying. I have you and rememory as for sure town otherwise I am wandering in the dark. what is your read on IaI and also can tell me what that big combo posting said it was tl;dr for me :P
I didn't carefully read it either. I saw it was full of self-meta and got demotivated.

I think I may have caught IAI in a scumslip, but we'll see. I'll summarize:

IAI said in a post that he was looking into who "pushed Rubi to claim".
I checked his ISO. Coincidentally,
he
was the one asking Rubi to claim when Rubi was on L-1.
I confronted him with this, and he stated that he, by looking into who pushed Rubi to claim, meant to look into who pushed Rubi to L-1 because being on L-1 automatically justifies asking the person on L-1 to claim, perhaps accidental hammers do happen (this was his excuse, which I'm not convinced I buy).
Right now I'm awaiting that he identify a single post in which he pointed out that he was only asking Rubi to claim because Rubi was on L-1, because I don't trust that he didn't simply forget he was the one pushing Rubi to claim (which would be a scumslip).

I think very likely the two scum will be in Rubi-slot, kuro and IAI. I think we shouldn't lynch Rubi-slot today for reasons already explained, so that makes it an option between IAI and kuro. I still have to look more into kuro as well.
okay. I was leaning towards IaI too.
I'm confident that we'll win by lynching through these three people so it really doesn't matter to me who goes first. Still, we should delay Rubi-slot a day for reasons already explained.
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Post Post #3256 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 1:08 pm

Post by pirate mollie »

I am pretty confident about it too. let's do IaI

VOTE: IaI
whew!
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Post Post #3257 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 1:21 pm

Post by Majiffy »

Jesus you guys made a whole other page?

Fuck someone just PM me when this day is over.
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Post Post #3258 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 1:41 pm

Post by Remembrance »

@IaI, answer Buldermar's accusations.
@Kuror0 answer Jon's accusations.
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Post Post #3259 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 2:31 pm

Post by Remembrance »

Se-asians has not posted in 5 days. *sigh*

Requesting another prod
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Post Post #3260 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 2:33 pm

Post by Majiffy »

Done.

This will be their last prod. If I have to prod them again for any reason, they will be force-replaced.
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Post Post #3261 (ISO) » Sat May 25, 2013 7:25 pm

Post by kuror0 »

Huh sorry I have been a little inactive lately. I had finals Thu and Fri and will have some more Mon and Tue so I am kind of busy and tired mentally, I will catch up and make my input on Tuesday night. If I can get some time I will try to post something later today but can't promise anything.
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Post Post #3262 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 1:28 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

KUROR WHO DO YOU SUSPECT AS SCUM BESIDES ME?!?!?
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Post Post #3263 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 1:55 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

Bulder, here is the post with my plan. You and Remembrance had votes on Rubicon. I suggested "we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today"

At this point, there were two votes on Rubicon, you and Remembrance. If I am being lynched today because I didn't specify "Please remove votes on these players" well then I guess I am getting lynched for what I didn't think needed to be spelled out.

At my mom's sucky computer, so feel free to follow the trail from this post. Basically from my recollection, there was some reaction that I was protecting players (HD, Mantis, or Rubicon). There was Remembrance being wishy washy etc. But those unvotes never happened, nor did people heed my plan as two more votes came by people I knew/or sure was town (HD, and Mollie if I recall correctly). At this point I knew my plan was not being heeded, so for fear of a quickhammer on someone who many people suspected, I asked for a claim of someone who could be a N3 doc.

Asking for a claim is DIFFERENT than who pushed for a claim. Pushing Rubicon toward a claim were all those against my plan, as well as all those who had votes on him. If you can't see that difference, then let's chat more on this postgame. Don't know how else I can spell that out for you now.

Before anyone hammers, ask yourself this:

I asked for top 2's, and other than SE Asians (who provided the list AFTER my HD investigation result was announced), I was on 0 TOP TWO LISTS. So why the gambit like people are suggesting. Why come up with plans that draw attention to me, why try to protect HD and even more, Mantis, an unknown many suspected. What scum motivation was there? Why not lay low, because that is how scum IAI would have played it at 7-2 with nobody suspecting him. Even if Rubicon was my partner, then that means only HD was the last living cop....and based on his top 2 was not going to investigate me. Why not lay low....I obv didn't need town cred (like Kuror suggests) because nobody suspected me!!!

Kuror continues to say he is lazy, insisted on his investigation list, didn't change it when 3 other plans were brought forward, then a town read who already used his power rendering him vanilla the rest of the game, who he says he investigated over his scum read, conveniently was the kill. Then his only scum read today is me, someone he did not suspect until D3 AFTER I STARTED ATTACKING HIM.

And you are picking me as the lynch before him. Shame on all of you. Whatever, at this point I am done playing with most of you. Many of you need a lot of work on your game. And Mollie, get over the last game already. Posh is over. I know I fooled you bad, but don't let the paranoia get to you. Read the section above and ask if you really think I'd play that way as scum?

Good luck, hope I am right about Kuror, cause if I am not, he is going to be the easy mislynch D5. And don't automatically believe jon D5 either, in LyLo fake scum can go for broke in that situation.
In post 2836, I Am Innocent wrote:Changed my mind, I am not going to wait for SE Asians.

I investigated Human Destroyer last night. He came back as town.


That means between Rach, myself, HD, and Mollie, I am very certain that is 4 cops. We have between 4 & 6 cops. With Rubicon, Mantis, and SE Asians all still unknown, it makes Kuror0 seem a little more suspicious. Factor in the investigation target coincidentally ended up getting NK'd, and he insisted on his target list, I am believing less and less that he is legit.

Unless you think the scum team is HD & myself, he is a legit cop. We need him to be protected, or at least seem possibly protected, hence why I think we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today (unless they are a N3 cop, then they claim and we split the investigation targets again, this time with Mollie dividing the list).

Thoughts on the plan?

PS - Those who had HD in their top 2, would you please replace him with someone else?

vote kuror0
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Post Post #3264 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 1:58 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

In post 1600, Remembrance wrote:^ L-2

My feet are getting cold.

UNVOTE: Remembrance

L-3.

If you survive to day 2, what will you do?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Wisdom (L-4): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie
Fate (L-2): Remembrance, SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST
Also, don't forget this post. This unvote derailed the Fate wagon D1, and once my flip is revealed, the only living people not on Fate are kuror and pirate mollie. so unless you feel both of these are scum, that would mean at least one scum was on the Fate wagon. Why not the person who got cold feet...
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Post Post #3265 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:00 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

In post 2836, I Am Innocent wrote:Changed my mind, I am not going to wait for SE Asians.

I investigated Human Destroyer last night. He came back as town.


That means between Rach, myself, HD, and Mollie, I am very certain that is 4 cops. We have between 4 & 6 cops. With Rubicon, Mantis, and SE Asians all still unknown, it makes Kuror0 seem a little more suspicious. Factor in the investigation target coincidentally ended up getting NK'd, and he insisted on his target list, I am believing less and less that he is legit.

Unless you think the scum team is HD & myself, he is a legit cop. We need him to be protected, or at least seem possibly protected, hence why I think we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today (unless they are a N3 cop, then they claim and we split the investigation targets again, this time with Mollie dividing the list).

Thoughts on the plan?

PS - Those who had HD in their top 2, would you please replace him with someone else?

vote kuror0
In post 1600, Remembrance wrote:^ L-2

My feet are getting cold.

UNVOTE: Remembrance

L-3.

If you survive to day 2, what will you do?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Wisdom (L-4): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie
Fate (L-2): Remembrance, SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST
Also like the "If you survive to day 2, what will you do?"

....like, give me some justification for letting you live partner....

Kuror & Remembrance, that is my best guess at this point in the game.
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Post Post #3266 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:04 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

Only other thought I had was Fate claimed N3 cop. If Fate knew there were 6 real cops, he was putting himself in danger end game as cops died and came out. Plus the Nacho kill with 2 claimed N2 cops investigating, HD a N3 cop, Rubicon a claimed N4 cop, does not add up as scum worried about many future claims.

One cop is lying. I know I'm not, so it must be kuror and Rubicon, I am sure (at least) one of these are scum.
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Post Post #3267 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:15 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3260, Majiffy wrote:Done.

This will be their last prod. If I have to prod them again for any reason, they will be force-replaced.
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Post Post #3268 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:18 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:Bulder, here is the post with my plan. You and Remembrance had votes on Rubicon. I suggested "we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today"

At this point, there were two votes on Rubicon, you and Remembrance. If I am being lynched today because I didn't specify "Please remove votes on these players" well then I guess I am getting lynched for what I didn't think needed to be spelled out.
This is not what I'm pointing out. I'm pointing out that you said you were going to look into "who pushed Rubi to claim" when, in fact, you were the one asking Rubi to claim.

You claim that you wanted to avoid Rubi claiming.

I ask for you to prove this claim by means of quoting a post in which you either a) ask people to unvote or b) mentioned that you only asked Rubi to claim because Rubi was on L-1.

You did neither - ergo, you're full of shit.
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Post Post #3269 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:19 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:At this point I knew my plan was not being heeded, so for fear of a quickhammer on someone who many people suspected, I asked for a claim of someone who could be a N3 doc.
Prove that the supposed "fear of a quickhammer" can't just be fabricated? From what I see, it looks like a complete bullshit made up on-the-fly kind of excuse for asking Rubi to claim for no good reason.
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Post Post #3270 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:23 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:Asking for a claim is DIFFERENT than who pushed for a claim. Pushing Rubicon toward a claim were all those against my plan, as well as all those who had votes on him. If you can't see that difference, then let's chat more on this postgame. Don't know how else I can spell that out for you now.
YOU were the only one who explicitly asked Rubi to claim. Nobody else. Nobody mentioned intention of hammering. Literally every player in this game is experienced, which doesn't really support your claim that you did it in fear of a quickhammer. Also, if you indeed did it for a quickhammer, I'd expect that you'd mention it when doing it, which (to my understanding) you did not.

I do see the difference between voting (i.e. pushing), and asking, but I don't see why Rubi was in a position where he needed to claim at the time, nor do I trust that you actually meant "who voted for Rubi" when you initially said you were going to look into who "pushed for a claim". I think that when you said you were looking into "who pushed for a claim", you actually meant "who asked Rubi to claim", but since you were the one doing so, you have made up this distinction between pushing and asking ad hoc.
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Post Post #3271 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:26 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:Before anyone hammers, ask yourself this:

I asked for top 2's, and other than SE Asians (who provided the list AFTER my HD investigation result was announced), I was on 0 TOP TWO LISTS. So why the gambit like people are suggesting. Why come up with plans that draw attention to me, why try to protect HD and even more, Mantis, an unknown many suspected. What scum motivation was there? Why not lay low, because that is how scum IAI would have played it at 7-2 with nobody suspecting him. Even if Rubicon was my partner, then that means only HD was the last living cop....and based on his top 2 was not going to investigate me. Why not lay low....I obv didn't need town cred (like Kuror suggests) because nobody suspected me!!!
This is the type of backwards self-meta that's utterly useless.

For all I know, you could do the gambit so that you can point out how unlikely it would be for you to do it as scum. IIRC, mollie even pointed out previously that you have done similar stuff in the past. That itself can potentially constitute scum-motivation.

Don't tell me "how scum IAI would have played it" - I trust that you're smart enough to understand why.
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Post Post #3272 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:29 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:Kuror continues to say he is lazy, insisted on his investigation list, didn't change it when 3 other plans were brought forward, then a town read who already used his power rendering him vanilla the rest of the game, who he says he investigated over his scum read, conveniently was the kill. Then his only scum read today is me, someone he did not suspect until D3 AFTER I STARTED ATTACKING HIM.
To me the two options for todays lynch are you and kuro, so I'm the wrong person you're trying to convince here.
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Post Post #3273 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:32 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:And you are picking me as the lynch before him. Shame on all of you. Whatever, at this point I am done playing with most of you. Many of you need a lot of work on your game. And Mollie, get over the last game already. Posh is over. I know I fooled you bad, but don't let the paranoia get to you. Read the section above and ask if you really think I'd play that way as scum?
I havn't picked you before him as a lynch - you seem a bit quick to jump to conclusions? I've explicitly said that I don't actually care who gets lynched first as long as we lynch Rubi tomorrow instead of today.

Am I included in the group of people you are done playing with who needs to work on their game? This is an important question for a reason I will not disclose yet.
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Post Post #3274 (ISO) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:33 am

Post by buldermar »

In post 3263, I Am Innocent wrote:Good luck, hope I am right about Kuror, cause if I am not, he is going to be the easy mislynch D5. And don't automatically believe jon D5 either, in LyLo fake scum can go for broke in that situation.
You must really think I'm retarded.
I ♥ pirate mollie and I slurp her bathwater. I also have a big fat mancrush on awsum gandalf.

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