Newbie 1378 - Game Over! (Town Wins)

[mastin2]

Gonna stop at ~120 from now, but still kinda seeing Radiant-Lucky as a scumteam. Will elaborate on my return.

[mastin2]

I am here just a bit confused. I had played one mafia game before but it had a storyline intro. I am guessing we just randomly vote for someone and let it go from there?

Some mods like to have stories, some don't. In all forums except Mini Theme and Large Theme (you might wanna wait a while before going there, but by the sounds of things, you'll enjoy 'em), the flavor is forbidden from influencing the game. Flavor, therefore, is largely optional when it comes to mafiascum.net.

Normally, yes, we'd have a random voting stage, and to some extent we did, but you came in late, and we've already begun debating.

Right now, looking through it is hard to pinpoint anyone.

My vote is going to someone who seems to be trying to deflect votes from another memeber.

Vote: crazygoat.

This is actually an excellent start, but it's one of the reasons I am actually suspicious of Lucky2u, who seems to have done the same. That said, however, scumhunting purely off of interactions with another is a bit of a tricky business. I definitely advise it for players who need to step up their game, but for newbies who haven't developed a scumhunting strategy, I'd actually advise against it; you've got a 2/3 chance of being wrong.

Instead, look for scummy things which have been said and analyze them--think if they're more likely to come from a town player (there are plenty of scummy things which in practice are actually townie things), or a scum player. Do the same for statements you see as town. You might have already picked this up, in fact, that plenty have said, "*player*'s posts look like they're town, but they might be scum because they're faking looking town", or things to that effect. That's actually a very, VERY solid scumhunting method, once you refine it.

[mastin2]

/caught up.

My mind is

still

on a Lucky2u-Radiant scumteam, but I'm far from positive about it. There's a lot of words, and quite honestly, I skim walls. Seriously, how can you make a wall out of so few pages?

IC hat time, by the way:
If your case against someone is longer than a screenwidth, you're doing it wrong. Almost nobody's going to read it. Summarize, and only provide the detailed version on request.

And mafiascum has these nice, neat spoiler= tags to use.

Code: Select all

[spoiler=this is what the code is]to hide a wall of text]

Spoiler: it looks like this

to hide the text

So when you

must

wall, at least wall with those, 'kay?

[mastin2]

Oops. Messed up the [/spoiler] in the code part. End all the spoilers, else they don't work.

[Lucky2u]

I think you are mistaking a shared fandom for a sign of a scum team Mastin, but I won't say anymore. I am taking Jason's advice to scum hunt. Here is my updated reads.

----------------------------

Ucrit - Hasn't posted since my last reads so not alot to go on. Did he go V/LA and I missed it? I ISO'd him and I can't find a sign of him saying he'd be gone.

Paradigm - His behavior is odd to me and I don't know enough about the game online to know what his vote on Mastin and subsequent posts would be signs of. I pictured that happening in a RL game and I imagine it would raise a lot of suspicion. Sort of Scum read.

Crazzy - He is currently V/LA, but the way he is going about his scum hunting lately is good enough for a town read from me.

Mattel - Has had a total of three posts. The thing is, I think he is just a disinterested player and not a lurking scum. He gets a Lazy read from me.

Nul - Already said.

Radiant - I spent some time thinking about what happened last night and Jason's view of it and I see his point now. I think I let our new friendship get in the way of me seeing that you dumping the blame on me was a scummy scummy move. Scum read.

Moose... I mean Jason - Rude, Huge ego, and intelligent. If he is a scum, I doubt I would be able to tell. He is too good for a day 1 read. If the scum have any intelligence at all they will kill him night 1 and take him out the game since he is clearly the best player. If he lives though... it might be because he IS the scum. No read.

Mastin - Our IC. The guy who has to teach us and play the game at the same time. We can both trust and not trust him. Clearly he is good, or he wouldn't be an IC. That's why this statement

There's a lot of words, and quite honestly, I skim walls. Seriously, how can you make a wall out of so few pages?

worries me. He basically said "too long didn't read". How did you become an IC with a tl:dr attitude? That's what bad players and noobs do. Unless it was a scum setup. Feign that attitude and if you get got caught lying about something you could say you misread it because you skimmed it. It's a weak argument I know. But FoS for Mastin.

Lucky2u - Everything this guy does is scummy, lynch him.

---------------------------------------------

If I had to put money on it, I'd bet on Radiant.

[Nul]

Lucky, please address #167.

[Lucky2u]

No. Your mind is made up already, so arguing with you further will detract from reading others. On that note Nul, since there are two scum in a game, and you clearly think I am one... who do you think the other is?

[Nul]

No. Your mind is made up already, so arguing with you further will detract from reading others. On that note Nul, since there are two scum in a game, and you clearly think I am one... who do you think the other is?

Read #134.

Not acknowledging arguments and ignoring cases against you is a scumtell. At least answer the questions I asked in #167:

Why do you think that none of the people being voted on are scum?

We're not voting randomly here, all the votes are based on people's reads and deductions. You don't take a position on anything at all in this entire game, just throwing around possibilities (maybe this, maybe that) and it is apparent you are trying not to rustle any feathers (shown by you going for easy lynches e.g. inactive players). Your post just seems to me like you are trying to lead the discussion away which in itself is scummy.

Backpeddling

, somehow I go from scum read to your strongest town read throughout the game.

Am I scum or town? Make up your mind.

[Lucky2u]

According to Jason, defending myself is scum. According to you, not defending myself is scum. Jason has the experience so I'll take his advice. Since your first question is mainly about people who aren't me, I'll happily discuss THAT.

1st. I said:

This means that whoever you are voting for, probably isn't scum.

There were five votes on five different people. Even if two of those people ended up being scum, that means THREE people were voting on townies. In other words, if you were one of the voters, you were more likely to be wrong than right (3:2 at best, possibly 5:0 at worst). Before someone says this is wifom or useless, I am only discussing it because he asked.

I'm not going to defend my backpedaling or we'll be right back to going nowhere. So how about my question?

[Nul]

According to Jason, defending myself is scum. According to you, not defending myself is scum. Jason has the experience so I'll take his advice. Since your first question is mainly about people who aren't me, I'll happily discuss THAT.

1st. I said:

This means that whoever you are voting for, probably isn't scum.

There were five votes on five different people. Even if two of those people ended up being scum, that means THREE people were voting on townies. In other words, if you were one of the voters, you were more likely to be wrong than right (3:2 at best, possibly 5:0 at worst). Before someone says this is wifom or useless, I am only discussing it because he asked.

I'm not going to defend my backpedaling or we'll be right back to going nowhere. So how about my question?

Read #134 for your question.

You're supposed to defend yourself

while

scumhunting. When you defend yourself, that's all you seem to do. You haven't been actively scumhunting, therefore you are scummy.

[Lucky2u]

Your reads are still mastin and ucrit after me? Radiant doesn't even come up on your radar? Is he a null read to you or a town read?

[Nul]

Radiant is a slight town read. I have strong scum reads on you and mastin.

I also find it funny how Lucky was claiming that Jason was "borderline crazy" (#84), "going to lose the game for town regardless of whether he is scum or not" (#93) and "will do more damage than good for town" (#84), and now after it was pointed out that Jason has over 3000 posts, Lucky seems to have retracted all his previous accusations choosing to call him "intelligent" and "experienced". How many times are you going to backpeddle?

[Lucky2u]

Views change, things happen. I may have been under the assumption he was a noob when I said that stuff. (I still think he is borderline crazy, he hit me with an inflatable hammer)

We agree on Mastin but not on Radiant. I've given my reason for Radiant, why did that not raise a flag for you? What did he do that makes you read town?

[Nul]

Views change, things happen. I may have been under the assumption he was a noob when I said that stuff. (I still think he is borderline crazy, he hit me with an inflatable hammer)

We agree on Mastin but not on Radiant. I've given my reason for Radiant, why did that not raise a flag for you? What did he do that makes you read town?

You have strong scum reads on Mastin? This is quite contradictory to your read in #179 where you simply FoS'd him because of a "tl;dr". Can you give me more reasons why you think Mastin is scummy?

Radiant gets town reads from me because of #127 and #139.

[Nul]

There were five votes on five different people. Even if two of those people ended up being scum, that means THREE people were voting on townies. In other words, if you were one of the voters, you were more likely to be wrong than right (3:2 at best, possibly 5:0 at worst). Before someone says this is wifom or useless, I am only discussing it because he asked.

Also this is terrible. Your theory only works if the votes were random. Discussing useless mathematics/game theory is attempting to divert discussion the wrong way. This is a scumtell.

[mastin2]

Clearly he is good, or he wouldn't be an IC.

Well, yes, I am good, but this is a faulty assumption.

Literally the only thing you need to become an IC is five completed games--that's it. You can still be a newbie in skill level, and yet be teaching others to play. (Scary stuff, I know, but for the most part, that doesn't happen.)

You also assume that more words = better.

We have a saying around here. Succinctness = Pro-town. More words is just more problems. I'm good

specifically because

I learned to skim walls.
I'm good because I learned not to wall when making my case.

Believe me when I say that. Nobody reads walls on mafiascum.net. Bit of a history lesson for ya, but my first account wasn't mastin2; it was Mastin. If you search for a game with that name, you'll see I have the title of "Unabridged". You'll see massive wall posts.

...And you'll also see my reads completely and totally ignored, with me frequently being mislynched in early day phases. There IS a strong correlation, there. That's one part of the site meta that's timeless. So nobody knows better than me the damage walling can do. Which is exactly why I said you need to stop it. The behavior I show is not atypical of the site--in fact, it's the norm. Nobody except the crazies will read an entire wall; it's a credit to your writing skills if you can get someone doing more than just a skim, and even then, many skip walls altogether.

Cut the words down and you improve the efficiency and effectiveness of scumhunting drastically. Less is more. [/IC]

[JasonWazza]

Mastin i wall regularly and i read most walls (key word being most) i think if you don't you probably shouldn't play a game based on a forum.

Yes less words can sometimes be better (Nachomamma8 is a good person i think of for that to be the case.)

But i also believe that if you have to say more it shows more of what your casing is.

basically a case is more convincing when it is thought-out and makes logical sense (and isn't just YOUR SCUM DEAL WITH IT or AtE bullshit).

On another note, when are we lynching lucky, and where is our mod?

Someone should prod our mod, so he can prod Paradigm, and mattel, and crazzygoat, and you know make this a 9 person town rather then a 6 person town.

[Nul]

@Mastin, just why exactly is your read on Lucky only weak? Look at all his posts!

He hasn't been doing anything.

He has not been scum hunting. He has not addressed the recent case against him. He has backpeddled half his scum reads which were OMGUS. All he's done is talk about the probability of randomly voting scum and some other anti-contributive mumbo jumbo.

@Jason, can you answer #169?

[uctriton00]

prod dodge, going to catch up in this game i hope by tonight or at the very least tomorrow.

[Lucky2u]

Ah hell, just go ahead and do it. I've played terribly. I think my lynch might contribute more to the team than me sticking around and still talking.

Ucrit! Where the hell have you been?

[uctriton00]

I forgot to say I'd be on VLA but I'm back now; just got to this game.

Nul I still see as town, the reading process is just so damn similar.
Jason I think is going to get a free ride in this game by being overly aggressive, and he will just cite "that's my playstyle" and I think that's going to bone us over if he's scum.
Paradigm looks bad, the reasonings behind the posts just don't look like they're there. "I'm going to focus on someone" is like you're pretending to scumhunt, and then a fake vote on mastin earlier.
Lucky2u I don't like the last post (194) which looks like a scum slip, and 135 the invite to be asked questions looks false too. There's flailing as town (which I get, and I've done it many times in scum), but it's independent of alignment. You can flail as town, and flail as scum.

Vote: Lucky2u

[mastin2]

@Mastin, just why exactly is your read on Lucky only weak? Look at all his posts!

He hasn't been doing anything.

He has not been scum hunting. He has not addressed the recent case against him. He has backpeddled half his scum reads which were OMGUS. All he's done is talk about the probability of randomly voting scum and some other anti-contributive mumbo jumbo.

My read's only weak because I can maybe see a town mindset.

Maybe

. I'm waiting for a while to see if it is or not.

[Jackal711]

Apologies for my absence the past few days. Had some things keeping me away from the computer.
Updated vote count coming.

[Jackal711]

Prodding Crazzygoat, mattel, Paradigm

[Jackal711]

(bump so VC post will be top of next page)