Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[buldermar]

There is one thing that bothers me about you, IAI. I don't usually meta, but I think I may actually look into this one because it should be easy to confirm/disconfirm. Just writing it so that I remember once I have better time.

- b

buldermar (L-2): SE-Asians
Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent

Not Voting: I Am Innocent, pirate mollie, buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[Remembrance]

You avoided acknowledging his case on me Buldermar. But you considered his plan. Why?

[Remembrance]

Oh you just don't have any time. Never mind. I'm not quite sure how to approach this. Still, I have to decide. Someone here is scum. I guess I'm going to go meta Buldermar, he is the only person I haven't meta'd yet. Mollie, you're familiar with his scum play. Is this it?

IaI's plan is ideal, but it fails in practical application. I'm not going to elaborate.

[Remembrance]

Never mind to the Mollie question. Just focus on rereading. I'm stumped.

[Remembrance]

Actually, never mind to both my never minds. Buldermar decided to focus on a plan in the possibility of a mislynch instead of taking a stance. questioning a player's allocation of time being questionably used is probably a good thing. So I would like to know why you devoted time to IaI's plan rather than on his case, which you specifically asked for.

@IaI, if I'm not scum who is scum and why? I'm not scum, so it's worth you thinking it over. Similar question to anyone else that considers voting me.

[I Am Innocent]

@IaI, if I'm not scum who is scum and why? I'm not scum, so it's worth you thinking it over. Similar question to anyone else that considers voting me.

I'm pretty sure I know who it is if it is not you.

Question to you. If you are town and the lynch candidate today, you know this game goes into D6.

What do you think is best for town, that Mollie is guaranteed to be alive D6 or that we possibly have a no kill N5?

Also, what do you think is better for town, that scum know who the backup targets are, or are kept more in the dark.

I have already expressed that I think it is better to have Mollie alive D6 (if we get to that point) than anything else. And if I am wrong about you, I don't think I want the scum in {Asians, Bulder} knowing who I am leaning towards. I did this once, where I kept the scum in the dark when town was up 4-1, and I ended up being the NK cause scum wanted to keep around the players he thought he knew where they were leaning (he ended up being wrong and town won). Had I not been the NK that game, I would have picked wrong (had that scum marked as town).

Long story short, not sure I want to tip my hand in case I am wrong about you. Still you must admit, Kuror insisting on keeping you on his investigation list despite you being very town to him + your cold feet unvote of Fate which derailed his wagon is the most condemning evidence we have, is it not?

Assuming you are being honest that you are town, who do you think is scum and why? You are asking player x to tell you why player y is town, I don't like that. Here's your chance, sell me on D6 if I am truly wrong about you or sell others on why Player x, y, or z is the better lynch day 5 than yourself.

[I Am Innocent]

Here is the said game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=575

[I Am Innocent]

IaI's plan is ideal, but it fails in practical application. I'm not going to elaborate.

How so? There is a mafia goon who cannot interfere with a doc protection.

We have mollie who everyone feels is town, or so much that three people have already stated they find her town/won't vote for her.

The other 4 players do not trust each other to different levels of degrees.

Regardless of a doc protection or not, we have 2 lynches to nail one scum.

If there is a NK not named mollie, you got a 3/4 shot (NK + 2 lynches) of nailing scum assuming we are all right that mollie is not scum (the NK gets rid of one of the players the others don't trust to some degree).

MyLo (3 town 1 scum) and LyLo (2 town, 1 scum), I think I'd prefer LyLo if one of the of the 3 is Mollie, wouldn't you?

[Remembrance]

1. This question is difficult. There's the ideal, the realistic, and the optimal choice given the factors that could go wrong. You try to minimize these factors. Answering this question with what I think is right, increases the chances of it not working. I want the ideal. I don't expect the ideal. I'm not avoiding this question. If You want me to answer it, I will. But it does no good for the town.
2. Beyond anything else, I want them to be accurate. Thinking about what you will do in mylo/lylo is what I want. You don't have to show it to me. But the work should be there. But the problem is, is that a scum just nods his head and is like "Yeah, Okay, I'll think about it" but they're not going to do anything, but prepare a case to mislynch someone, if they prepare that case now, they have more scrutiny to go over, you are using your personal experience here, I've never been to mylo or lylo before as town so I'm not sure what is best. I want to believe that after spending about 3 months of turning this game over (like I have) a player would take it seriously and that I wouldn't have to tell them. But there is also the chance of burn out, which I just experienced.
4. I deny this. A Mafia player is not indistinguishable from the town members. Mafia are distinguishable from town. Therefore there must be a better, cohesive and more implicating and likely case than yours. Writing analysts would agree with me.
5. Okay. Give me time to think about it (I've been doing that). Your last line, actually, Buldermar asked you that. I asked you to create an alternative case in which you looked for things that were more likely to come from town than scum. But I don't think you're going to do that.

[I Am Innocent]

Please reassess you've played Mafia for 2 years. You should know what town looks like by now.

Mollie saving my neck when multiple players were ready to lynch me by the end of the day. Following a claim on D2 that gave us a scum on a platter? Does that look like town?

SE Asians attacking kuror the whole day, and refusing to hop on jon with me. Someone on the Fate wagon D1 that did not hop off at L-2. Does that look like town?

2 of 4 nights where scum left cops alone, and 2 nights where cops were killed. The difference, there were no known docs N3 or N4. N1 had nacho, N2 allegedly had Bulder, who was in my scum pool. If Bulder is the last scum, why not kill me (scum have already shown a propensity to want cops dead before investigations are produced) and say he protected his teammate instead? Another player on the Fate wagon D1 that did not hop off at L-2. Does that look like town?

Funniest part is how your opening post agrees with all this, and includes me too:

The problem being, Is that I was pretty convinced yesterday that they were all town. That is literally it.

...but let me reassess...

[Remembrance]

I refuse to further this line of reasoning to its logical weakness. You're supposed to deceive the scum team. Not announce your plan of attack to them.

I voted Kuror0 before Mollie saved your neck.

[pirate mollie]

I am reading you as scum IaI cos you are buddying me hard for weird reasons that are wrapped up in your analysis for why I should be protected.

I mean why should town tell scum whom the doc should protect in mylo when town have the advantage

there is only 1 scum left

that angle is weird

[pirate mollie]

I guess it isn't mylo cos I keep forgetting about SE

[pirate mollie]

but my point still stands

[I Am Innocent]

Need something definite.

@Buldermar, can you tell me about those town slips you found on Se-Asians. Quote, reasoning, everything?
IaI made a pretty good case for town you.

Remembrance, this is what I was talking about with regards to player x explaining why player y is town.

[Remembrance]

if I can't detect the town slips, then I need to go to someone else. Further, I was looking for his reactions to asking him to cut himself off from undermining Se-Asians if he were scum.

[Remembrance]

Buldermar has occasionally been vague. Now is the time to look at the evidence and see if it stands up to scrutiny. Asking him that question is normal. Especially with my line of reasoning, that "hey, I'm town and I really think Mollie is town and we have a mislynch, so I guess I just need to find one more town and GG"

[I Am Innocent]

but my point still stands

Posh has scarred you for life, hasn't it??? Lol.

Would it help if I traded my being lynched/falling on the sword D5 for SE Asians guaranteeing you protection N5? Can you guarantee me a win once the IAI paranoia is gone, cause the remaining two are just going to vote each other and you are going to decide this game...

[I Am Innocent]

PS - Cause that is how much I believe that is the right move strategically (killing 3 of the 4 players total that the 5 players are willing to vote out...)

[Remembrance]

IaI,

Kuror0, Buldermar, and Jon were all voting you. It takes 4 votes to lynch.

Reassess. I am doing so. You do so as well. I have already demonstrated, I am willing to be convinced by others arguments, (when you argued Buldermar was town, I decided that you were town + your ATE-whine tell) and so came to the conclusion Jon and Kuror0 were the remaining scum. I assumed Jon had prioritized using associative tells on me in case we ended up in a mylo situation with your lynch and that he had decided to use Buldermar as an excuse to vote you as the mislynch reason. But it turns out that wasn't the case, it seemed so perfect too.

Please read Mantis's and Nacho's arguments. Read mine. I am not perfect. I doubt myself (Hence why I unvoted you, hence why I unvoted Fate). I even doubted myself on the Rach lynch. I changed my mind on my argument for your lynch deciding it was better to lynch a probable scum (kuror0) than to ensure I was not end-gamed the next day as town, by someone who had, had some tell tale signs of tunneling(The day chat accusation, the "why aren't you immediately providing content at all times" accusation.)

[Remembrance]

Hell, I could have just walked away and said I needed to get some groceries and Mollie would have been forced to hammer you. Rethink. Please. We have a good chance of winning. Make it better.

[Remembrance]

Well, okay, I'm going a bit overboard. Mollie might have convinced Buldermar. I don't know. I can't predict that kind of thing.

Point stands though.

[Majiffy]

Nooooboooooody knoooows

[Majiffy]

The trouble I've seeeeen

[Majiffy]

Noooooobooooody knooooows