Newbie 1381 Oakhaven is Overrun Game Over

[talah]

Anyway, because I'm not great at not saying things I think, and because I think RVS is overblown and referred back to, and because also, I want to prove my slot is town:

Right, so next time, make it seem sillier. Got it. Maybe I'll put it in pink.

Anyway, onwards!

At that early stage this is totally down the line. And while I agree +1 -1 tracking is going to give you a lot of fuzz on Luigi I think actually, he was straight down the line and not duplicitous about anything. I simply note that because, I think if you are sane, it tells you a lot about the slot. There's generally a lot of crazytown about RVS or perceived RVS and that is a challenge. But I challenge anyone to find anything actually and seriously wrong with Luigi's statements. Defensive, yes. Reasonable? Want to say no just to move things ahead? Think about it.

And that is my from now on two-post nightly update.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PUT TO YOU FOR FROCK'S SAKE

[Honey bee]

*yawn*

prod Mr. Thanearvan please Mod or maybe replace him. He hasn't been any more active since the post where he said he would be.

Grey do you have any other reads other than Talah?

You are a very strange player, talah. First off, when I asked for reads I meant scum reads. I don't care about town reads either, I only see scumminess and lack there of. So far, I haven't really gotten an idea of what you find scummy. You back down from things, double-thinking, and a lot of strange side comments. Like right now you have your vote on Grey, but you call him a good questioner. Isn't him mostly questioning what got you suspicious of him? And doesn't this criticism apply to jmo too? I can not see consistent suspicions in your posts, and for all the discussion in the thread you should have a stance on something.
Why am I strong read? just cause I put effort into my posts does not make me town.

But I challenge anyone to find anything actually and seriously wrong with Luigi's statements.

I already did.

Still hasn't voted, and with a lot of discussion and accusations going around, even a couple in my direction, I can think of a few reasons, but the most prominent in my mind at the moment is unsure of who to put pressure on to get lynched. Which is mainly done as Mafia, in my experience.

How does any of this not apply to you? You say there is "a lot of discussion and accusations going around". If that's true then you should have comments and opinions on it.

Thane, for all his absence, has been the easy target for some low effort players and I'm pretty confident that one of them is mafia. Luigi, jmo, and tybalt all fall into this category.

Tybalt nice of you to drop by.

also some statement complaining about lack of activity.

[talah]

This game is trickier than it seems from the outside, huh.

JMO, why have you gone AWOL? Playing in other games by the looks but nothing to say here. I'm confused by delineation between IC and player. You actually give good responses to total noob questions but for some reason are otherwise hiding behind question question question. Feels like you've posted just one three line sentence and have been re-quoting it as an answer to everything.

mothrax, talah is an easy target. So you've got Grey and you've got me down as suspicious. At least one of these is wrong. Who else is suspicious? Why should I trust you?

Mala, my attempt to do 'something' to 'help the game' was a bad play and unsportsmanlike.

Bah.
Humbug.

I'm going to claim as newb-town at this point. And now I'm going to find the wiki pages on mafia theory.

[jmo16mla]

It's more difficult being an IC you know, being my first time and all, even harder. Most people on site don't like other people going to your posts and seeing if they are posting in other games. I'm one of them. I post when I feel like I can contribute to the game. Otherwise, I post fluff. Fluff isn't good for town. Plus, using other ongoing games as evidence is breaking the main rule on MS and could result in a modkill.

Quality>quantity.

[talah]

Fine, but there's been a lot of comments since you last posted and you really don't have a position yet.

Is that real when you say about using 'is this person posting' 'they're not posting here but they're posting elsewhere' being modkill material? If so I did not know that.

JMO, I so, so want you to be town. I really liked your tack in provoking people by questioning them. Irritating them in that way. I thought it was clever and useful. But you're acting like the ashamed celebrity of the thread where you should be the superstar. Kick it up a notch, please. PLEEEAAASSSEEE!!! ((c) Charlton Heston)

[talah]

UNVOTE: Grey
VOTE: Thane

Policy

[Malakittens]

mothrax, talah is an easy target. So you've got Grey and you've got me down as suspicious. At least one of these is wrong. Who else is suspicious? Why should I trust you?

Why are you calling yourself an easy target?

Policy lynches don't ever benefit anyone. Now you're going after an easy target.

Please give me 5 reasons why we shouldn't lynch you.

Oh jmo.. He didn't specificity which ongoing game. That's not modkillable. You're just trying to scare him off from pokin you, imo.

[jmo16mla]

No, referencing ongoing games posting, isn't modkill material. I just said that using other games could be. I didn't want him to begin linkin other games and such and have him mod killed or something for that reason.

I warn people before I would modkill them.... Modkilling is not something mods like having to do. In this case so far no one has committed a modkillable offense. I recommend reading the rules link (there is a button for it in the top right).... Plus of course my rule set on page 1. Follow those and there will be no problem... Rach

[ThaneArvan]

Hadn't been checking often because nothing had been happening for most of the game... It looks like things have picked up a lot. Will have a post commenting on everything tonight.

[talah]

Yeah well I dunno. Maybe because I've been aggressive and irrational, have painted people as scum when I had no real evidence to back it up, have been fishing for reactions.

Are you and Honeybee BFFs yet? Do we have a crew? I'll state now that I like Frobey, don't think he was holding anything back. You're not going to like what I think about Grey.

Five reasons? Because I'm a noob, because I wasn't afraid to throw my vote around, because I can change my mind, because I post regularly, because I defend myself.

[talah]

UNVOTE: Thane

Ninja'd and policy no longer stands.

[mothrax]

I'm an easy lynch is never ever ever a good thing to say. Making excuses for poor play is a bad habit.

[jmo16mla]

I'm an easy lynch is never ever ever a good thing to say. Making excuses for poor play is a bad habit.

whos scum?

[mothrax]

I've been pretty straight forward about my scum reads. Grey an Talah are my top two. You're up there as well. I don't like how you have avoided a lot of the conflict in the game and the post using the whole first time IC as an excuse for your play is bad.

[tybalt]

tybalt: I want to know what you think of jmo, actually, and not because of any subtext but because he needs some attention. Lives are at stake.

Here is my clear, unbiased opinion on JMO and I am not going to read any other people's opinions of JMO before I say this.

JMO, upon isolation, seems to be trying to withhold from saying anything provocative- trying to stay out of the spotlight if you will.
Has reservations on doing, well, anything.
Post #43 seems to be weird, and another attempt to continue to not provoke anyone. If anyone has played with JMO and knows he is like this every game then I will retract that.
Also #107, the reason for why JMO is voting ThaneArvan, seems sort of like what JMO is doing

Ok, wow. VOTE: JMO

[Greywing]

Grey do you have any other reads other than Talah?

Scum-wise? Nobody that really sets off alarm bells like Talah does. I'm pretty confident that you are Town, and I'm getting Town reads on Mala and Fro. Besides the three of you, I can't say with confidence.

If I had to pick a second scum right now, I'd go with Moth. Something just seems off to me when I read his posts. My case here is predominantly gut though.

[jmo16mla]

tybalt: I want to know what you think of jmo, actually, and not because of any subtext but because he needs some attention. Lives are at stake.

Here is my clear, unbiased opinion on JMO and I am not going to read any other people's opinions of JMO before I say this.

JMO, upon isolation, seems to be trying to withhold from saying anything provocative- trying to stay out of the spotlight if you will.
Has reservations on doing, well, anything.
Post #43 seems to be weird, and another attempt to continue to not provoke anyone. If anyone has played with JMO and knows he is like this every game then I will retract that.
Also #107, the reason for why JMO is voting ThaneArvan, seems sort of like what JMO is doing

Ok, wow. VOTE: JMO

[jmo16mla]

tybalt: I want to know what you think of jmo, actually, and not because of any subtext but because he needs some attention. Lives are at stake.

Here is my clear, unbiased opinion on JMO and I am not going to read any other people's opinions of JMO before I say this.

JMO, upon isolation, seems to be trying to withhold from saying anything provocative- trying to stay out of the spotlight if you will.
Has reservations on doing, well, anything.
Post #43 seems to be weird, and another attempt to continue to not provoke anyone. If anyone has played with JMO and knows he is like this every game then I will retract that.
Also #107, the reason for why JMO is voting ThaneArvan, seems sort of like what JMO is doing

Ok, wow. VOTE: JMO

So if I do this in my scum games and town games, whats that mean?
Where the hell has everyone seen me a aiding conflict? I'm the one who questioned the hell out of people in the beginning. Half of the people playing got replaced and the activity really died out. That's my worst enemy.

[Malakittens]

Null.

Doesn't change the fact that hours not reallyovong you're vote. It's sitting on SK done who's barely posting. What dud your questions help you read sting peope!?

[Honey bee]

UNVOTE: Grey
VOTE: Thane

Policy

Wow. What on Earth made you think this was a good idea? No one should EVER want lynch someone just because they haven't posted frequently enough.

*reads*

kk thank you :).

tybalt: I want to know what you think of jmo, actually, and not because of any subtext but because he needs some attention. Lives are at stake.

Here is my clear, unbiased opinion on JMO and I am not going to read any other people's opinions of JMO before I say this.

JMO, upon isolation, seems to be trying to withhold from saying anything provocative- trying to stay out of the spotlight if you will.
Has reservations on doing, well, anything.
Post #43 seems to be weird, and another attempt to continue to not provoke anyone. If anyone has played with JMO and knows he is like this every game then I will retract that.
Also #107, the reason for why JMO is voting ThaneArvan, seems sort of like what JMO is doing

Ok, wow. VOTE: JMO

ah HA. What a perfectly bad post to confirm my feelings that you are mafia.
First off I am positive you have not even tried to read this game or if you have you are searching for only your name. You came up with a nice little list earlier in this game to fall away from the "no reads suspicion", curbing the lurk radar with little comments, And now you've come to make a decision to jump off this bad wagon on thane and make a half baked case on jmo (who is also a popular candidate).

Everything you said about him you have absolutely no grounds coming from you. Trying to stay out of the spotlight? You realize for how mysterious he is about reads, He has 4X the amount of posts you have. Jmo is very provoking, has often defended his play as "the way he's always played" and despite efforts to get his reads has remained true to his nature. You on the other hand have remained very much outside of discussion, but still around to post an answer and make some off comment on talah.

2nd You called jmo town in that list, right next to me. So what exactly changed between post 78 and post 164? Surely not post 43. If it bothered you that much then you wouldn't have put a big town read on him that early. And I'm going to have agree with jmo that there is really nothing about this post that is avoiding conflict. If you actually were reading you would of noted that mala called it "bs" and jmo stood by his play in #52. Pretty obvious that you just picked this post at random to cite as evidence and hoping no one would look at it.

Lastly, you mention jmo's vote as hypocritical. REALLY. Because you've had such wonderful contributions so far. Jmo is at least generating some type of information and has been communicating on some level. You've only touched on one post really in the past 100, and that wasn't even anything enlightening. In other words your arguments are contrived and your play is too careful. I have not forgotten why I voted you and I'm not going to let my suspicions blow over because you avoid them.

It's more difficult being an IC you know, being my first time and all, even harder.

Jmo, we're just asking you to be a little more open. Surely you know how activity starved day 1 can be in mafia.

Hadn't been checking often because nothing had been happening for most of the game... It looks like things have picked up a lot. Will have a post commenting on everything tonight.

You suck for thinking ignoring a game will help activity. I'm watching this post, because this is exactly the type of prod dodge everyone forgets about.

Talah for me is a deadline lynch. In the past I can remember a lot of times where the town lynched the village noob only for them to be town, and for all the scummy things he's done I still prefer Tybalt. Jmo I'm not convinced of and no one else has done anything worth lynching.

also forgive me for making such long posts. I suffer from being too verbose.

[talah]

Dear Grey,

So what changed between this post, where you liked my analysis:

HA! Indeed, I think I was a bit hasty with my faux-RVS on Greywing.

And this post, where all of a sudden, it makes me scummy:

Regarding Grey, in ISO his posts seem mostly about analysing situational logic and asking reactive questions.

First post was in the spirit of a random vote. Changed my mind when I read through the entire thread and you'd been participating and asking questions. Later ISO'd you (not the best analytical tool but it has its uses), and saw that you hadn't done much analysis of your own (except for the couple of sentences which didn't end in a question mark which were about

what

people had done, and not

why

). More observations than analysis. Asking questions is great imo, but demanding analysis from someone (or citing lack thereof as a reason to vote) and failing to provide this yourself is inconsistent with a good reason to vote.

The trending lack of analysis continues with your latest vote. You cite two reasons, the first finds its roots here:

@Tybalt: I'm still waiting for an answer to this:
There's also been a ridiculous lack of analysis from Luigi so far. There was his well publicised RVS post, and he's only followed it up with posts complaining about people discussing him. I still believe that his RVS vote was intended as a joke, but the lack of content since then makes me think that he's trying to fly under the radar. Mala's looking more Town to me now after a re-read.

Lack of analysis

and

lack of

content

you originally said.

-Talah has come in, and thrown his vote on about half the playerlist in an attempt to make something stick.

True enough, but still an observation. So you're voting me really because... I've made bad analysis? Subterfuge? Because I irritate you?

Care to state an opinion on JMO?

[ThaneArvan]

Sorry, but I don't have any time.

I need to request replacement [\b]

[talah]

The Room With No Windows

A modern day parable

Starring: Mafia Goon & Mafia Godfather

Scene opens. Two men sitting at a table in a dank and stink-filled cellar. Cigars and ashtrays. The makings of a poker game scattered among other miscellanous detritus littering floor and table. A conversation takes place.

• Goon

  :
  Hi Greywind! Thanks for subbing in.
  
  Godfather

  :
  Hi! No worries, glad we got time to talk before the game started up what's the strategy?
  
  Goon

  :
  I have a few ideas about strategy. Ask heaps of questions. Asking questions is pro-town play and usually doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As long as you throw a few accusations in, too.
  
  Godfather

  :
  Cool, well I've played a couple scum games too but not as many as you I guess as IC Shall we set up an early vote on each other? Maybe I vote for no reason, and you vote me straight after or something...
  
  Goon

  :
  Great idea! I could say I was trying to set a good example by calling you on it. I'll say "As I said, if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me." But it has to be *exactly* this sentence. Then you vote that person and I'll vote you straight back.
  
  Godfather

  :
  Won't that seem suspicious?
  
  Goon

  :
  Nah, it'll motivate people to challenge you, but at that stage it'll still be RVS. Say you made the vote deliberately to get us out of RVS. I'll throw some suspicion on you early, you explain your vote (this early any semi-logical explanation will suffice), and I'll move on.
  
  Godfather

  :
  We'd have to set up a time when we can both be on for that to work... Sunday evening? I'll probably be on about 6 - 8 forum time
  
  Goon

  :
  That works. When I get the post alert I'll jump straight in. I'm pretty active in the community you know
  
  Godfather

  :
  What else? How do you pick the best person to accuse? What happens if they start not looking scummy?
  
  Goon

  :
  You could pick someone who gets defensive? That's usually something you can stick with or come back to. Besides I doubt the thread will be particularly active since it's a newbie game. They're usually most active in the first couple of days and then they die down as people replace out.
  
  Goon

  :
  If your target doesn't look scummy anymore, reluctantly change your vote close to deadline but stick with your initial pick for D2 / D3 lynch.
  
  Godfather

  :
  Okay, slowing the pace and 'blending in' suits me anyway, I usually play these games pretty casually.
  
  Goon

  :
  If I'm feeling like we need to bus close to deadline I'll throw in a few AtE's to make it easier for you. Man it sucks that my first game as IC is scum : P
  
  Godfather

  :
  We'll get them! Stupid Town. Anything else?
  
  Goon

  :
  Watch out for mothrax and Mala. They're pretty cluey. I haven't played with the others but will meta them later today.
  
  Goon

  :
  And I'll deliberately misspell your name call you 'grey wing'
  
  Godfather

  :
  Heheh, that'll be funny as frock
  
  Goon

  :
  It should be fine if we stick to the plan. Remember: ask a lot of questions and stick to your guns.
  
  Godfather

  :
  Sounds good.
  
  Goon

  :
  Grey, sounds good.

Scene fades to black.

[talah]

@Rach-Mayor-Mod: ThaneArvan has requested replacement (#171 above). Also please Prod Fropome.

[Greywing]

So, assuming that the "play" is stating that the scumteam is myself and Jmo, why don't you have your vote on either of us? I would think that if you were that confident, you'd be actively trying to lynch the pair of us.

(As an aside, I got a good chuckle out of that, so thanks .)