Newbie 1378 - Game Over! (Town Wins)

[uctriton00]

despite apparently also being aware of Jason's breadcrumbs

When did I ever say that?

[mastin2]

In fact, I think I can elaborate further.

As scum, after the hammer, it'd have been pathetically easy to gain some cheap towncred.

Knowing

Jason is scum, you can fake NOT knowing Jason is scum, via comments to the extent of, "okay, speedlynching mattel D3" and the like. You can get cheap towncred by asking questions of Jason and why he didn't claim sooner. You can gain cheap towncred by looking like town unaware that Jason is actually scum. But it's all exactly that: WIFOM-induced cheap towncred. Thus, as scum, I milk it for all it's worth. I make those kinds of comments, I fake being town who doesn't know the truth, because experience has taught me that's a GREAT way to fake being town.

However, I KNOW better than to do this as town. It gives the scum info they may not have had, and it creates extra wifom. As town, I know that after the hammer's been dropped, everything being said will be laced with WIFOM, and it is a very bad idea to comment during that time. You need only look at mattel. If my theory about triton is correct, that he actually didn't know that mattel was the cop until twilight, you can see the damage which was done by twilight talk. (Damn you, Stephanie Meyer! )

[mastin2]

despite apparently also being aware of Jason's breadcrumbs

When did I ever say that?

Here:

This was a trust exercise: I had to trust mattel's claim. It was day 2, and if I got the wrong hammer, then obviously a fake claim happened. If Jason was the real cop, I would have easily killed Mattel for the fake claim.

Your logic for explaining the hammer on Jason relies on information which was only available after the hammer, UNLESS you picked up/knew about Jason's crumbs before-hand.

[uctriton00]

The hammer was a trust exercise. I trusted mattel's claim that he was a cop, so I hammered based on his result.

If mattel wasn't a cop (and Jason was being truthful in that he said we just killed our own cop), then mattel would easily be killed for fake claiming.

What about that means that I ever believed Jason was a cop? (Before Jason told us he was a cop)

[uctriton00]

You see both 'crumbing.

Again, this is the problem.

I never saw crumbing from Jason. I have no idea what the crumbing even ******* looks like, and I'm a god damn SE.

Can you point these crumbs out for me?

As far as me calling you OMGUS, it's because you're upset I killed your scum buddy Jason. To be honest I wasn't sure who the partner could be (all the boasting that I did during twilight was a bluff in an attempt to draw the night kill), but then seeing you vote for me right away looks like someone who is out to avenge their buddy.

[Lucky2u]

Assuming we are right, and mastin is scum, that means linxie and enomis are townies too so here is my question to them: Where are you guys and what's holding you back?

[Lucky2u]

Hey! People! Where yall at? We are at the goal line here!

[uctriton00]

F5

[Lucky2u]

So ucrit... see any good movies lately?

[enomis]

Hey. I am on mobile here. And I dont like posting on mobile... so. Will read this thread in depth tonight when I get back. Only thing I have now is that linxie is town. I need to evaluate the other three. Actually I had ucrit as town before for that hammer and wanted to lynch btw mastin/lucky. I will reread tonight. I feel so stupid now that I never saw mattel bread crumb. Because I was so convinced by jason's bread crumb that he is cop that I thought mattel was just an obstinate townie. =.=

[uctriton00]

What is this bread crumb everyone saw from Jason?

[Linxie]

linxie, read my post 38. I didn't explicitly saying he was town but I was defending against a wagon that building on him for no reason. Then in post 81 I said he was a town read. I don't know how you missed that. In fact, your sort of saying that me and ucrit are your top two reads which is wierd because you also soft read mastin as towny. Really? Your reads are all terrible.

I saw those, but went according to what you said at the end of each day phase.
Um... it's possible for town to gang up on other town
You think all my reads are terrible, dude at least I have tried? What are your thoughts on enomis?

Assuming we are right, and mastin is scum, that means linxie and enomis are townies too so here is my question to them: Where are you guys and what's holding you back?

Time zone difference It is 8am now and I've just arrived at work.
I've posted my thoughts, which you've outright dismissed as terrible.
Why are you so eager for a lynch? Are you sure Mastin is scum? You don't see there's a possibility they're both town having a go at each other?

[enomis]

@Ucrit and Mastin: When did you all first find mattel's breadcrumb. Point it out to me.

[enomis]

@ucrit: Jason's breadcrumb is all the, If anyone got a guilty result, they are false thingy. That is his bread crumb given how he was so insistent on it.

Also, i don't know how the two of you(the most experienced players missed out the jason's breadcrumb).

@Mastin: Do you think your call on Ucrit is enough motivation to force him back onto the jason's wagon if he is scum.

Funny how every time i have 2 wagons in front of me to choose the moment i start the day in this game.

[enomis]

@Lucky: Did you in anyway, found the breadcrumbs also? Point out to me why you think Mastin is scum. You could sheep Ucrit reasoning if you want. But i want it to be paraphrased by you and list only the important points of why you think he is scum. Maybe from most important to least important in that order. Can you do that for me?

[Lucky2u]

@linxie You know... ucrit and mastin being town would be super uncool, but that is a possibility. Maybe I am getting caught up with ucrit who I am trusting far too much. For all we know he hammered Jason to be immune from our lynch.

UNVOTE:

My thoughts on enomis is that he has been sitting back lately. If he is scum then from his PoV, he sees ucrit and mastin fighting and doesn't have to do anything other than stay out of the way. He was indecisive yesterday too. He stayed off of a decision. Assuming scum, he could have done this in the hopes that someone else would have lynched me when I went L-1, like ucrit almost did. That way he seems innocent and can claim that he wasn't on the wagon that lynched a townie. The occam's razor answer here is that the people not voting jason yesterday are the scum. That is linxie and enomis. I truly think linxie was sheeped by a talented Jason. That leaves Enomis.

@Enomis No I did not see the breadcrumbs that Jason was using at the time. I think now that it was pointed out that it probably was those "If someone has a guilty against me than they are false" lines that he was using but I was picking those up as dumb logic scum tells. Jason was right when he died, he could have been town, me and ucrit's evidence was paper thin and we got lucky. Still, better lucky than lynched (pun intended).

Mastin for many reasons. His blaming ucrit kind of makes sense but why am I even a possibility? The two top wagons yesterday were me and Jason. In the scenario that I am scum, me and Jason were spending the whole day trying to bus the other. There was no reason to do that day 2. His arguments today have all been to sow the seeds of doubt about ucrit, because he hammered but has said little to nothing about linxie and enomis. Also look at the attitude change. Is this the same IC who was so calm and collected before? No, he is rattled and feels the noose around his neck. His vote yesterday should be a plus but he did it when Jason was still safe and Ucrit hammered without warning. Had ucrit called his shot, would Mastin have backed off? I think so.

The more I think about this, I start thinking about what the next night and day will look like if I am wrong, who will die at night and what the landscape will look like with three players tomorrow. With that in mind, I have to say that the right play today is:

VOTE: Enomis

[enomis]

If you never saw the breadcrumb, then what is this:

So do I. If we lose the cop, atleast we will get alot of info from that kill. I hope that person is smart enough to start talking now and give us as much to go on tomorrow >_>

This statement came out of nowhere after the hammer then? And downright specific to if we lose the cop?

Mastin for many reasons. His blaming ucrit kind of makes sense but why am I even a possibility? The two top wagons yesterday were me and Jason. In the scenario that I am scum, me and Jason were spending the whole day trying to bus the other. There was no reason to do that day 2.

Saying you are not scum becaUse you two were trying to bus each other whole day.

Then here:

Going by their votes alone, linxie and enomis are the two that weren't on Jason. We know that Jason likes the bus strat so really noone can be counted out, even me. So where was the last scum hiding...

What? So this is just a statement made out of convenience to try and make yourself look town?

[enomis]

VOTE: Lucky2you

I like this.

[Lucky2u]

If you never saw the breadcrumb, then what is this:

So do I. If we lose the cop, atleast we will get alot of info from that kill. I hope that person is smart enough to start talking now and give us as much to go on tomorrow >_>

This statement came out of nowhere after the hammer then? And downright specific to if we lose the cop?

This is misrepresented. The "so do I" first line was in response to mattel saying "Just hope the right decision is made here." and then the "If we lose the cop..." sentence was in response to his concern that the scum found out who the cop/tracker was. I had picked up Mattel's crumbs (not Jason's) and knew he was talking about himself. I was not so subtlety telling Mattel that he needed to give us some reads before the scum killed him that night (which they did).

The rest of your post is completely valid. Jason is a smart player and that statement about how he likes to bus really has us all doing WIFOM, which was probably his goal to begin with.

[Lucky2u]

Also... it's Lucky2u not You. I've got your name right the whole time "Enormis" so do me the same courtesy.

[uctriton00]

If anyone got a guilty result, they are false thingy.

LOL THAT'S A BREAD CRUMB?

That applies to every townie in every game in every planet that this game has ever been played on.

My role in this game is a vanilla townie. No **** that if someone says "i'm a cop, i got a guilty on uctriton00", then it's a lie.

That is not a bread crumb.

And mattel's claim happened before my quickhammer. It was like, "trust me i know he's scum" or something along those lines.

[uctriton00]

$10 says mastin comes in and moves to a lucky or enomis wagon

[uctriton00]

And these cases by both enomis on lucky and mastin on me are both somehow rooted in the same false idea

"we know jason was a cop"

i didn't know jason was a cop, how many times do I have to sqwuak that for you to believe it?

that is a great foundation of why I think mastin is scum. he manufactured a case against me, rooting it in a completely false and made up idea that isn't even true.

[uctriton00]

and guess what, jason wasn't even a cop!

why am i even addressing this; oh wait, i'm addressing it because mastin insists that i knew something that wasn't even true

[mastin2]

Warning: wall follows. Apologies, but it's more convenient than dividing into separate posts. Sorry.

The hammer was a trust exercise. I trusted mattel's claim that he was a cop, so I hammered based on his result.

If mattel wasn't a cop (

and Jason was being truthful in that he said we just killed our own cop

), then mattel would easily be killed for fake claiming.

What about that means that I ever believed Jason was a cop? (Before Jason told us he was a cop)

"Believed" Jason was a cop, no. Knew that he was crumbing cop, yes. THIS VERY POST I AM QUOTING IS SHOWING THAT.

Again. This doesn't get much clearer than this. Your logic for hammering Jason relies on events which happened after Jason was lynched. Thus, your logic for hammering Jason cannot be true. If your logic for hammering Jason were true, then your argument would be made entirely from things that happened before the hammer (maaaaaaaybe with an aside-comment to the effect of "and as it turned out...", but that's about it), rather than almost entirely of things after the hammer. Huge difference.

Can you point these crumbs out for me?

As far as me calling you OMGUS, it's because you're upset I killed your scum buddy Jason. To be honest I wasn't sure who the partner could be (all the boasting that I did during twilight was a bluff in an attempt to draw the night kill), but then seeing you vote for me right away looks like someone who is out to avenge their buddy.

I cannot point out the 'crumbs since I never saw them. I can maybe guess what they are based off of others having said they saw them, but really, the people you should be asking are the people who saw said 'crumbs in the first place.

As for the OMGUS accusation...

Another candidate is uctriton. If Jason's as fond of bussing as I think he is (I fully believe him), then if you look at the distancing between uct and Jason early-on, it'd make sense.

Also, uct unvotes Jason when he's at risk of being lynched.

Both of these combined might mean that uct's the other scum.

Anyway, if it wasn't clear already,
-Jason's scum.
-I'm convinced enomis is town.
-mattel is town.

That leaves Linxie, uct, and Lucky. I currently suspect uctriton more than Lucky, and Lucky more than Linxie. (Linxie is a null-leaning-town read.)

You're ignoring this post I made yesterday. Where I clearly laid out

precisely

why I feel that you are Jason's scumbuddy. Well before your hammer, so well before I could be out for alleged revenge. The more you try to use that buzzword, the worse it's going to backfire on you, triton.

---

@Ucrit and Mastin: When did you all first find mattel's breadcrumb. Point it out to me.

I figured out mattel's crumb the moment I switched my vote off of Lucky, so that'd be right here.

@Mastin: Do you think your call on Ucrit is enough motivation to force him back onto the jason's wagon if he is scum.

Hell

yes. Triton fears my talent. He'd want to avoid being caught by me, and as such, needed to do his best to shake me off his trail. It didn't work, but it'd certainly explain his jump back on.

---

Mastin for many reasons. His blaming ucrit kind of makes sense but why am I even a possibility? The two top wagons yesterday were me and Jason. In the scenario that I am scum, me and Jason were spending the whole day trying to bus the other. His arguments today have all been to sow the seeds of doubt about ucrit, because he hammered but has said little to nothing about linxie and enomis. Also look at the attitude change. Is this the same IC who was so calm and collected before?

You are a possibility

precisely because of

being the lead wagon competing with Jason. I believe firmly that triton is the last scum, which would make you town, but it'd be sheer arrogance to not recognize that I

could

be wrong, that it COULD be someone else. (It's not.) And IF it was someone else (it's not), it'd be you. (But you're not.) The reasons for this are simple, actually. Jason's fond of bussing. Voting you as a bus makes sense, since as the scum PR, him living is actually more important than you living. A cop guilty threw a wrench in his plans, but you should be able to see where I'm coming from; there's plenty of reason for it to be done. But this is mostly a tangent, null-and-void, because while it's POSSIBLE for you to be scum, it's not PROBABLE. Triton's the far better candidate.

The reason I have nothing to say about linxie and enomis is because I have full confidence they're both town. I can't remember my reasons off the top of my head, which means I can't give you the strength in my townreads, but basically, I can't see either of them as being scum. As for my attitude change, I'll admit that it has, and I do apologize for it--it is my emotions shining through. But those emotions are not rage. As scum, I'm actually never calmer and more collected than when I'm alone. (So if you see me going back to being calm,

then

you can try calling me scum. ) The emotions you see me displaying are

excitement

and

anticipation

. I'm having fun right now, more fun than I've had in ages, because I'm dueling a worthy adversary. Most of the times I fight against a player, I'm either vastly outclassed or vastly outclass who I'm fighting with. Here, I consider triton to be an opponent in skill equal to my own. And today's the critical day. You know why? Because...if I get triton lynched, we win. If triton gets me lynched, he can nightkill literally anyone, and get away with it, because he can talk his way out of being lynched, and induce paranoia in the surviving two about each other. If triton gets someone else lynched, he can nightkill me, and then he's in the identical situation.

Basically--today's the day that decides the fate of the game. If I can convince the rest of the town to lynch triton, we'll win. If I can't, if I fail, then we're near-guaranteed to lose. And that's a thrill-ride. I'm having an adrenaline rush. Which is why there's been a change in attitude, but I still feel as if I should apologize for it.