Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[fferyllt]

Ok, so hp leaves.

Day 1 I was reluctant to let go of my town impression of mrbungles, though hp's posts bothered me because the reasoning seemed shallow. He's offered virtually nothing to the thread but scum reads on Antagon and MattP, and his reasoning for tying them together, as exemplified in post 890 are weak. Well, virtually nothing but those two reads and some lackluster negging of the cases for voting him, rather than actual refutation.

I was going to put my Saturday vote back down on him in this post but there are a couple things I want to review first.

[fferyllt]

SoO

Early-ish in the game he had Pjovik and me as his strongest scum reads as indicated in 255. He had a question for mrbungles about his vote on me, and after hp replaced him, SoO voted for hp. His last post of day 2 indicated he was happy with the Antagon lynch because Antagon's reasoning on hp was fake, though he didn't change his vote to Antagon in 806.

Rereading his iso (which doesn't take long - 10 posts), it looks pretty bad. No follow-up on or with me aside from that one question to mrbungles, then votes not me but bungle's replacement at a point where it was the most viable alternative wagon to Antagon.

This was his reasoning for the hp vote:

HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

[Amrun]

Why are there Matt votes right now? That's bad and you should feel bad.

I like Syryana more now because if I had two votes, the other would be on ffery, mostly for stuff that the tigers ate. She made no sense during the whole course of that conversation and it didn't read genuinely to me at all.

[fferyllt]

Why are there Matt votes right now? That's bad and you should feel bad.

I like Syryana more now because if I had two votes, the other would be on ffery, mostly for stuff that the tigers ate. She made no sense during the whole course of that conversation and it didn't read genuinely to me at all.

My posts in that conversation were genuine, and having your questions to bounce around helped me articulate (to myself anyway) why there's little chance that MattP is the double/ghost voter.

There are some people in this game that I have never played with who have fairly strong opinions about each other's alignment. Sorting through that, especially in cases where the reasoning has been oblique, has been confusing. I feel out of place in this game because there is obviously a ton of mutual history I'm ignorant of. But, that's how I form baselines, so I'm dealing with it.

I don't think I've ever had as strong a negative read from SoO's posts before. I'd like your thoughts on him. I had originally planned to put my vote back down on hp, but something in his iso pointed me in SoO's direction again and I'm really not liking his posts at all.

[Zdenek]

The best points against ffrey are that she failed to comment on Whimsy and had an unjustified town read on mrbungle. I still think hp [leaves] is a better lynch.

SoO could be scum, but I think he's not as likely scum as hp, and if hp is scum, then SoO looks alright.

[Amrun]

@ferry: Nothing jumps out at me as scummy from soo. Seems fairly standard soo town play to me, at least so far. I'm usually better at reading him in context a little later in the game due to his very minimal play style.

[hp [leaves]]

Ok, so hp leaves.

Day 1 I was reluctant to let go of my town impression of mrbungles, though hp's posts bothered me because the reasoning seemed shallow. He's offered virtually nothing to the thread but scum reads on Antagon and MattP, and his reasoning for tying them together, as exemplified in post 890 are weak. Well, virtually nothing but those two reads and some lackluster negging of the cases for voting him, rather than actual refutation.

I was going to put my Saturday vote back down on him in this post but there are a couple things I want to review first.

Uhh, how do you expect me to refute cases such as "antagon is bussing", "(mrbungles meta)" or "(nothing at all)"

also I bet you'd believe my case on mattif it came from Adel (who I took the idea from)

[fferyllt]

Adel?

[Zdenek]

The idea that Whimsy screwed up and accidentally put Matt's name in place of someone else's because they are buddies holds a little water, but I think that it is more likely that he copied Oversoul's read on Matt and justified it with a fake reason.

[Amrun]

When did you take this idea from Adel, hp?

[Tierce]

post_id=5054283 time=1372106199 user_id=10128 post_num=906]also I bet you'd believe my case on mattif it came from Adel (who I took the idea from)

And why are you taking ideas on cases from someone else? What in this game makes it look like Adel's cases would be a good fit?

[fferyllt]

Who is Adel?

[hp [leaves]]

post_id=5054283 time=1372106199 user_id=10128 post_num=906]also I bet you'd believe my case on mattif it came from Adel (who I took the idea from)

And why are you taking ideas on cases from someone else? What in this game makes it look like Adel's cases would be a good fit?

Because "new players tend to slip the names of players they have information on" is a universal and useful tell, especially considering the situation with Whimsical Eggplant's first post. (the game he used this was Martyr Mafia, and it worked even though it wasn't the direction we wanted)

Jeez, next time you'll be yelling at me for saying IIoA

[hp [leaves]]

Who is Adel?

A good player who likes to analyze tells too much

[Tierce]

post_id=5054335 time=1372107511 user_id=10128 post_num=912]Jeez, next time you'll be yelling at me for saying IIoA

What's with the defensiveness here? I'm not acusing you of anything on this point, I'm trying to figure out why you thought that

case-making by Adel

(those were your words, you called it Adel's

tells

later and that changes it somewhat) was something this game would benefit from.

[hp [leaves]]

sorry, my terminology is very rusty

[Vi]

~Vote Count XXVIII

hp [leaves] (3) ~ Zdenek, Amrun, implosion
MattP (3) ~ Tammy, Katsuki, hp [leaves]
fferyllt (1) ~ Syryana

Not Voting:

fferyllt, MattP, Oversoul, sword_of_omens, Tierce

--With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
--Deadline is 04:20 EDT on June 26, 2013.

(Only got 2 days left)

[sword_of_omens]

sorry guys, work has been hell today...
should have a post up shortly...

[MattP]

Brb, have to completely redo all of my reads

[sword_of_omens]

SoO

Early-ish in the game he had Pjovik and me as his strongest scum reads as indicated in 255. He had a question for mrbungles about his vote on me, and after hp replaced him, SoO voted for hp. His last post of day 2 indicated he was happy with the Antagon lynch because Antagon's reasoning on hp was fake, though he didn't change his vote to Antagon in 806.

Rereading his iso (which doesn't take long - 10 posts), it looks pretty bad. No follow-up on or with me aside from that one question to mrbungles, then votes not me but bungle's replacement at a point where it was the most viable alternative wagon to Antagon.

This was his reasoning for the hp vote:

HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

Yes, Pjo and you were my top picks at the start of the day yesterday…I especially didn’t like the way you and Bungles interacted..and if you look on that same reads list you would notice that Bungles’ name was directly above yours..i explained how this did not seem like his town game at all… considering I just came from one with him and that you were in that same game, you should have noticed the difference too… His one liner posts were not normal for him… Once he was replaced by hp, I did try and question him as I wanted to try and get a read on his slot and he seemed to be evading the question…
And yes, I did vote for him yesterday…but I don’t see how you think it came out of nowhere...the deadline was approaching and I couldn’t get anyone to vote Pjo with me…The only 2 wagons that were viable at the time were Antagon’s and hp’s… i had reservations about Antagon, as I normally like to play it safe, so preferrably did not want to vote him…and hp was a good vote..his pred’s actions weren’t his normal town, and hp's posts weren't much beyond trying to line up lynches…when he did answer my question, he said that Pjo was town but he still hadn’t read you, which also seemed a bit convenient… not to mention that his flip would also give me better insight on you..if he did flip scum, then I would bet even money that you were his buddy…


***



Moving forward, I wanted to put my two cents in:
This morning does show that something funky went down…
from my experience, “hidden” voters are most likely scum...but considering Antagon’s flip, it would mean that either:
1. Town member used a “hidden vote” to lynch a scum read of theirs. Didn’t want to mention it in thread in case they were wrong and ended up lynching a town PR. Antagon had enough controversy on him for this scenario to have happened, however, I think it is highly unlikely, as I’m pretty sure town would have come forward to claim already…
2. A scum member used a “hidden vote” to lynch their teammate . This could make sense...hp and Antagon were the leading wagons...Antagon shows to have flipped “Abyss Vanilla” so he could have been the better choice to get rid of for their team if they knew that one or the other was getting lynched…this would most likely make hp certain scum though, as there really would have been no reason for scum to “secretly” get rid of one of their own, especially if the competing wagon was town.
3. A second scum team used a “hidden vote” to save a team mate from getting lynched, and/or to lynch a possible town PR…while this could also be the case, I find it highly unlikely…yes there were 2 kills, but in a small game like this, if we have 2 teams killing every night then that would make this game extremely scum-sided, I would think…

Scenario #2 makes the most sense...again, town would most likely come forward, especially since Antagon flipped scum..and i really do not see 2 scum teams in this small of a game...

Vote: hp[leaves]

[Amrun]

post_id=5054371 time=1372108328 user_id=10128 post_num=913]

Who is Adel?

A good player who likes to analyze tells too much

Why did you ignore my question?

I really don't like this because it's divorcing responsibility from your own vote. "A good player said this is a tell, and that's why I'm voting Matt!" Not "I, personally, think Matt is scum." If you're wrong, it wasn't your tell to begin with, right?

[Tierce]

2. A scum member used a “hidden vote” to lynch their teammate . This could make sense...hp and Antagon were the leading wagons...Antagon shows to have flipped “Abyss Vanilla” so he could have been the better choice to get rid of for their team if they knew that one or the other was getting lynched…this would most likely make hp certain scum though, as there really would have been no reason for scum to “secretly” get rid of one of their own, especially if the competing wagon was town.
3. A second scum team used a “hidden vote” to save a team mate from getting lynched, and/or to lynch a possible town PR…while this could also be the case, I find it highly unlikely…yes there were 2 kills, but in a small game like this, if we have 2 teams killing every night then that would make this game extremely scum-sided, I would think…

Scenario #2 makes the most sense...again, town would most likely come forward, especially since Antagon flipped scum..and i really do not see 2 scum teams in this small of a game...

I agree with you, which is why I am increasingly more puzzled that Amrun is insisting on #3 and barely (if at all) considering #2, especially when the game is not that large and has a mechanic that punishes Town on lynches (mustering votes to lynch on 72h may not always be easy). OTOH, I don't think that makes Amrun scum, because I've known her to have really freaking terrible logic + blinders as Town + insisting that her way is the only possible way. Shrug, etc.

TL;DR: I'll probably end up voting hp[leaves] at the end of the Day. Still haven't gone through stuff, though.

[Amrun]

I never once insisted that it is #3. I literally said the EXACT same thing as sword, except I said I favor option 3 as my pet option. I said several other things are possible, including option 2, but that MOST options STILL point towards hp being scum, HENCE THE VOTE ON HP.

Your sidesniping is unappreciated and unwarranted, though I'm unsure if you're trying to sling mud and plant seeds or just plain rude. Because I've known you to do THAT as either alignment.

[Katsuki]

Eh. I think you guys are putting WAY too much into this ghost vote.

Why are we voting a ghost vote over scummy dayplay anyways?

[Amrun]

LUCKILY FOR US

hp is scummy by day play too!