Micro 201 - Venging Ball - Over

[SalmonellaDreams]

/confirm
Couple familiar faces.

[SalmonellaDreams]

That's eight. Should we start now?

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: DrPepper
Because I only drink water.

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: Maki
For RVS OMGUS. I just wanted to be able to say that.

[SalmonellaDreams]

DrPepper, that L-1 vote was awful, especially on page one.
The whole maki shadi thing is interesting, but can we really find associations this early?
VOTE: DrPepper

[SalmonellaDreams]

but can we really find associations this early?

[SalmonellaDreams]

This is so many kinds of confusing.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Kudos to dr.pepper for trying, even if it's early. His analysis is fair.

Salmo, do you have any other leads you'd like to follow? (You were on Maki's rvs omgus vote before?)

Are you trying to subtly push me onto Maki right here?

The relationship between Maki and Shadi is interesting. It's still to early to learn anything of it, but we'll definitely have to go back to look at it.

Anyways, VOTE: Shadi

I liked the pressure that was on him, and he seemed like he was trying to subtly get me to vote for Maki.

[SalmonellaDreams]

greygnarl, how come you didn't push harder on siv? He ignored your question.
What have you noticed about his play? That was a very open ended statement and it seems like you're just hopping on the bandwagon.

VOTE: greygnarl

[SalmonellaDreams]

So you're criticizing me for not being able to commit to a lynch this early, and you're criticizing Alex for committing to a lynch this early?

[SalmonellaDreams]

I'd be uncommitted to pressuring someone if I just let it go when they didn't answer.
Here's the thing: They did answer.
Since Shadi beat around the bush for part of my question, I'll ask again, with additional L-1 pressure.
VOTE: Shadi

Kudos to dr.pepper for trying, even if it's early. His analysis is fair.

Salmo, do you have any other leads you'd like to follow? (You were on Maki's rvs omgus vote before?)

Are you trying to subtly push me onto Maki right here?

Answer this.

Siv, since grey isn't going to push you, I will.
Is there any other reasoning behind your vote in 35 besides the fact that you don't like a post of his?
Additionally, elaborate on what you didn't like about his post.

Anyways, here's another thing I'm noticing about Shadi: His play seems different from when him and I played together last.

@Pepper: I know L-1 isn't an instant lynch, but with Makiavel around, it very well could be.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Speaking of that, Maki, don't hammer without a claim, and don't ask for a claim for no reason.

[SalmonellaDreams]

in post 32, we're you trying to push me onto maki?

[SalmonellaDreams]

So you were asking me to scumhunt for you

[SalmonellaDreams]

*?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Salmons exchange with grey is interesting... Giving out for bandwagoning to put pressure on at l-1but doing it twice himself? Contradicting much?

Can you rephrase this?

As for giving out for not pressuring sv well perhaps he wanted to.pressure someone else he found suspicious?

Yes, this was established, but siv ignored grey's question completely. We can't let people coast like that without pressuring them. I wanted to know why grey would give up so easily, as it was a good question.

Actually drp made other interesting points about your play too. There's a lot of contradictions and circular reasoning going on here being masked by pro town votes on people making l-1 votes...

Which points? Where are the contradictions and circular reasoning? You're not helping anyone out by saying they're there and not pointing to where.

then quickhammerer gets venged unless they hit scum.

I understand, but from my experience, Maki will even quickhammer as town.

No, working together; exposing points.

Exposing points? Why should you start now?

Anyways, I need to learn to count, I thought Shadi was at L-1.

[SalmonellaDreams]

You vote for someone who puts another person at L-1... I don't have much of a problem yet...
however your claim that we can't find any associations yet is lazy at best and anti town at worst.

No. Association tells are important, but not until later.

Stand-alone tells are most accurate and useful early in the game and the associative tells are useful later in the game (when at least one mafia has been exposed).

So it's pointless to look for associations before a scum flip.

Why bring it back up? why not actively try to find scum?

Because DP was still trying to use associative tells. Additionally, just because I wasn't actively trying to find scum in one post doesn't mean that I'm not trying to find scum overall.

Shadi's play here does seem slightly odd but he does make a good point that you were on to Maki about that RVS OMGUS vote... why not keep pressuring that vote? to paraphrase youreslf;

Because Maki didn't ignore my accusations.

Again you vote for someone putting another person at L-1, not too concerning yet but part of your reason for voting for Grey kind of contradicts wwith your reasons for going after Shadi...

Once again, it would help if you pointed out which part contradicts my reason for going after Shadi.

No no don't hammer it'll look bad ect ect ect... hint hint hammer Shadi please Maki winky face

If you knew Maki, you'd have said the same thing.

[SalmonellaDreams]

You clearly have no idea of who jeep is.

[SalmonellaDreams]

He won two scummies for his common tells article, which is where I pulled that from. I'm gonna go with his logic over yours.

[SalmonellaDreams]

It's irrelevant if scum know what to avoid. I never stated a tell, I stated that associative tells shouldn't be used until after a flip. It's not a tell in itself. It's not something scum can avoid.

Or are you stating that scum should know to avoid associative tells by now?

Also, you never pointed out my circular reasoning.

[SalmonellaDreams]

That last part was at Guyett

[SalmonellaDreams]

I never discredited associative tells. I'm saying they shouldn't be used until after the first scum flip.

The part I pointed out was from Jeep's common tells, it's just not a tell.

[SalmonellaDreams]

You mean you don't vote for who you think is scum? I've been playing this game wrong the whole time.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I keep forgetting Alex is in this game

[SalmonellaDreams]

That's a misrep: Once again, I never said all associative tells.

[SalmonellaDreams]

This play is reminding me of how Dr Pepper played when I played with him last. He was scum.
VOTE: DrPepper
He was just as blunt then as he is now, and he doesn't seem as blunt in his town games I've looked at.

[SalmonellaDreams]

That's a misrep: Once again, I never said all associative tells.

Show me where I've misrepped.

[SalmonellaDreams]

That was pretty nitpicky and you admit that you want to stop talking about associative tells now. Right Sal?

Anyway, my town game and my scum game are pretty different before, yes. Keyword is before.

V/LA from now til Wednesday night. I promise to still read and post

What's pretty nitpicky? You were trying to make it seem like I hate all associative tells, when I only said it's not the time for them. That's a legitimate misrep, stop trying to cover it up.

At this point you're trying to self meta, which is bad. Also, you expect us to believe you changed your meta all of a sudden?

[SalmonellaDreams]

You said ALL associative tells. That implies I won't want associative tells later in the game either.

Regarding your new meta, that makes sense, however, there's no real way of telling if it's true or not. So, I'm understandably wary of throwing out useful meta just because you've claimed you've changed.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Well, it wasn't clear to me at the time.

Welp, I blew that out of proportion.

UNVOTE:

I'll be taking another look at things tomorrow.

[SalmonellaDreams]

So, not only have you called the scum team, but you're also able to determine our roles?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Also, considering you've never voiced any concerns about grey before, that looks like a pretty clear omgus.

When have I been over protective of thirty's slot? When has Thirty's slot been protective of me? Your case doesn't make any sense.

[SalmonellaDreams]

When have I been over protective of thirty's slot? When has Thirty's slot been protective of me? Your case doesn't make any sense.

Answer this. Don't avoid it, answer.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Which parts of his arguments are flimsy? Instead of defending yourself, you're just attacking your attacker.
Point out which parts of his case are flimsy, and we can work from there. You can't just claim something about his case and not back it up.
Yeah, I did mean fifty.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Like the entire post was dismissed as fluff out of hand.

Okay. Good, now you're getting somewhere. Is there anything else you notice about Fifty or myself?

[SalmonellaDreams]

I was going to refute that, but according to the role pms, there is daytalk.
Fuck.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Oh, well there's no night phase anyways, so makes sense.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Which questions has he dodged?
Incredible may be an over exaggeration.

[SalmonellaDreams]

guyott's dodging an incredible number of questions

Sure, whatever. What about what you said actually builds on dr pepper's case?

Really? You stretched one missed question into "an incredible number of questions?"
VOTE: Fifty Ways

[SalmonellaDreams]

UNVOTE:
Guyett, once again, you didn't answer the question, and it looks like you were looking for some kind of confirmation to vote fifty.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Rewording != adding on

[SalmonellaDreams]

No, I didn't put Shadi at L-1 for the same reasons as the other two L-1 votes.

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: Siv
He's lurking hard, so far.

[SalmonellaDreams]

It seems like he's trying to coast, honestly.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Town Maki posts more, iirc.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I'll vote maki later tonight if there's no interest in voting siv.

[SalmonellaDreams]

DP is town, methinks.

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: makiavel

[SalmonellaDreams]

True...
VOTE: Guyett
But maki will probably get the majority anyways.

[SalmonellaDreams]

OMGUS vote for you now

I feel kind of touched that he's trying this hard to lynch me <3
Sorry but you aren't my type (overly attached)
VOTE: fifty

So much OMGUS.
VOTE: Guyett

[SalmonellaDreams]

Spoiler: Quote Wall

DrPepper, that L-1 vote was awful, especially on page one.

Putting someone at l-1 on the first page is suspicious
VOTE: Dr.pepper

Parrots reasoning

without

attributing it.

It does look a bit odd doesn't it... I Think mak has some explaining to do

You're at L-1 now maki, your play seems very odd so far.

Very open ended statements.

Not sure what to make of drp yet, some solid town moments but the page 1 l-1 vote is making me uneasy.. Its a full 40 mins between his vote and the previous shadi vote, surely he read the tread in that time?!? Also don't really see how it was orchestrated.

Fence sitting on confirmed scum.

Actually my argument towards Sal being scum is not parroting what others have said. I read Dr.P's post, then looked back over Sal's posts and came to my own conclusions building on Dr.P's case.
You are being very flippant of my case in an effort to build a wagon on someone who was on to your potential scum buddy.
I notice you have Maki, Dr.p and myself as scum.... any coincidence that some of those are people who were on to Sal?
(Maki is also leaning scum for me as his play is reminiscent of active lurking)

fwiw I have the following reads on people

SalmonellaDreams - light scum - scum
Siveure DtTrikyp - null - light town
Shadi1337 - null
notscience - null - light town
maverick_alpha - light town
Fifty Ways - scum
Makiavel - scum
DoctorPepper - Town

A lot of light reads/nulls. The only full on town read he had was for Doctor Pepper. Additionally, he was pretty much parroting Dr Pepper's case in an attempt to appear like he was scumhunting.

I'm not convinced that DrP is scum Notscience... what is lighting up your scumdar?

Refusing to vote Dr Pepper while simultaneously fence sitting.

Really? Fuck i had him as certain town!
@not science what gave it away for you?

That reaction.

You can see clear association tells between Guyett and Dr Pepper. Additionally, Guyett tries to rehash things stated by other's and tries to make them his own cases without giving any credit. Additionally, DP refused to move onto the Guyett wagon. Guyett for Red Godfather.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Lol you're all retarded.

Only two votes on you, and a case from a shitty player, and you're already starting to crack. Additionally, more OMGUS.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I'm p sure Guyett is scum now,

Then vote him.

[SalmonellaDreams]

What makes you think that Shadi and DP could be the red team?

I agree that we should wait for everyone, but L-1 isn't really a danger at this point.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Why are NS and Guyett blue?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Guyett, prove it. Refute my case.

[SalmonellaDreams]

NS is town, that attack on pepper wouldn't have happened as scum.

It would have if he was bussing, he could well be the Red GF!!!

He could be, but just because he

could

be godfather doesn't mean he

is

the godfather.
Will go back to those other things later.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Spoiler: Quote Wall

DrPepper, that L-1 vote was awful, especially on page one.

Putting someone at l-1 on the first page is suspicious
VOTE: Dr.pepper

Parrots reasoning

without

attributing it.

It does look a bit odd doesn't it... I Think mak has some explaining to do

You're at L-1 now maki, your play seems very odd so far.

Very open ended statements.

Not sure what to make of drp yet, some solid town moments but the page 1 l-1 vote is making me uneasy.. Its a full 40 mins between his vote and the previous shadi vote, surely he read the tread in that time?!? Also don't really see how it was orchestrated.

Fence sitting on confirmed scum.

Actually my argument towards Sal being scum is not parroting what others have said. I read Dr.P's post, then looked back over Sal's posts and came to my own conclusions building on Dr.P's case.
You are being very flippant of my case in an effort to build a wagon on someone who was on to your potential scum buddy.
I notice you have Maki, Dr.p and myself as scum.... any coincidence that some of those are people who were on to Sal?
(Maki is also leaning scum for me as his play is reminiscent of active lurking)

fwiw I have the following reads on people

SalmonellaDreams - light scum - scum
Siveure DtTrikyp - null - light town
Shadi1337 - null
notscience - null - light town
maverick_alpha - light town
Fifty Ways - scum
Makiavel - scum
DoctorPepper - Town

A lot of light reads/nulls. The only full on town read he had was for Doctor Pepper. Additionally, he was pretty much parroting Dr Pepper's case in an attempt to appear like he was scumhunting.

I'm not convinced that DrP is scum Notscience... what is lighting up your scumdar?

Refusing to vote Dr Pepper while simultaneously fence sitting.

Really? Fuck i had him as certain town!
@not science what gave it away for you?

That reaction.

You can see clear association tells between Guyett and Dr Pepper. Additionally, Guyett tries to rehash things stated by other's and tries to make them his own cases without giving any credit. Additionally, DP refused to move onto the Guyett wagon. Guyett for Red Godfather.

Ok well regarding open ended statements have you ever met an Irishman? that is how we talk.
as for fence sitting on confirmed scum well he is confirmed now but he certainly wasn't back then. hindsight is fucking amazing isn't it.
My reaction is genuine as you will see when I flip, I was shocked this morning.

The open ended statements are scummy regardless of your nationality. That's such a weak excuse, by the way. "Oh, I'm Irish, it doesn't apply to me because I'm Irish." As for fence sitting, it's not about hindsight. Fence sitting is a scum tell. Null reads and fence sitting makes it harder to contradict yourself when you want to hop on a wagon. Fence sitting can also be used to distance. Your reaction did not seem genuine at all. It sounded so forced. Then there's the classic AtE. "When I flip." I don't find all AtE scummy, but I won't let people use them to try to weasel their way out of situation.

NS, you can't just self vote and catch scum. That's not how this game works. Just because you pinned down one scum doesn't mean we let you shoot you're next scum read. The self vote also looks like you're trying to say "Look, I'm town." It looks bad. Finally, it'd be ideal not to kill a townie while killing scum. If you venge shoot a GF, the scum team doesn't die. If you're wrong with your shot, the rest of the town gets put into a shitty situation because of you. It's poor play, no matter which side you're on. If you're town, knock it off. If you're scum, feel free to keep your vote where it is.

[SalmonellaDreams]

More AtE. Besides, what does hindsight have anything to do with my case?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Who? If you hit wrong, we're in for a big shit fest.

[SalmonellaDreams]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guyett
Obv scumslip. There's the hammer.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Then why are you voting notscience?

[SalmonellaDreams]

NS, sheep me pls

[SalmonellaDreams]

Ain't doing the entire player-list, that'd take actual effort.

Ha. Haha. Haha. Wow.

Okay. VOTE: Shadi

[SalmonellaDreams]

Saki isn't in this game

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: guyett
Sorry about the inactivity :/

Anyways, I don't like his reaction to the Shadi wagon. I can quote specifics, but it should be obvious.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I still think Guyett is scum.

[SalmonellaDreams]

If his previous post egging on his own lynch was sincere,

he would have hammered himself

.

Good catch.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I dislike the switch from this:

Shadi and Guyett are both scum

to this:

I still think Guyett is scum.

Trust me Sal, he's not.

VOTE: notscience

[SalmonellaDreams]

... they can't be a scum team.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Well I agree with the wagon but I guess L-1 wouldn't be smart now? idk.

Why did you take your vote off, Fifty?
VOTE: notscience

Shadi for scum.

VOTE: Shadi

[SalmonellaDreams]

Well I agree with the wagon but I guess L-1 wouldn't be smart now? idk.

This could read three ways:

• You're generally concerned about putting someone at L-1.
  
  
• You're trying to gain town points by announcing you're
  not
  putting someone at L-1.
  
  
• You don't want to sheep the wagon because you don't want to draw attention to yourself.

I find the last two more likely.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I do love how your scum reads are the only two people voting for you right now.

[SalmonellaDreams]

You're all talk and no action. You still haven't thrown down a vote yet. Afraid of ruffling feathers?

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: notscience
Because we're getting nowhere.
NS, venge shadi if you're town.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Don't kill me on my biffday :<

So you think NS is vengeful?

Woah what an opportunity.

....

[SalmonellaDreams]

I'm getting major scum vibes from fifty, right now. Will elaborate later.
VOTE: Fifty

[SalmonellaDreams]

Oh. Forgot.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Fifty's been tunneling on Guyett very early on. I also don't like his one liner posting style. It looks like he's trying to not say too much.

Eh, it's not much, now that I took a look at it. I still don't have good vibes.

UNVOTE:

I don't like how much maverick lurked, and I don't like how he tunneled on maki so hard. Then again, Shadi tunneled, too. I've hit a wall :/

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: Shadi
He's been posting less and less ever since we put him under pressure today.

[SalmonellaDreams]

...Judging by the pedit, it took you at least five minutes to write that up. Being careful about what you say?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Shadi needs more votes.

[SalmonellaDreams]

That was... wait, what?

[SalmonellaDreams]

maverick alpha is still lurking hard.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Eh.
Sorry I wasn't able to post today.

[SalmonellaDreams]

That accurately describes my last completed scum game, actually.

[SalmonellaDreams]

So, at this point, if we lynch town, should they still venge? I think we should get a consensus.
VOTE: notscience

[SalmonellaDreams]

I doubt I'm in danger of being venged, so why is it convenient?

[SalmonellaDreams]

That implies I know you're town, which I don't.
If you are town, it's not like I can stop you from venging.
I just thought we should reach a consensus.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Literally everyone here could be scum.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Why exactly can't NS/you be scum?

kunkstar, your predecessor claimed cop. Just thought I should let you know.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Yeah, that reaction test wasn't going to work.

[SalmonellaDreams]

VOTE: Maverick
Stop hiding under the radar, already.

[SalmonellaDreams]

wee wagon

[SalmonellaDreams]

Between you and Maverick.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I'm comfortable with lynching him now.

@Maverick: because he tunneled DP relentlessly early on.

[SalmonellaDreams]

All you've stated is it's gut. How could you have been so sure with gut? It looks like classic bussing.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Ha.

What happened to your town read on me? It seems like you've conveniently dropped it.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I'm smart enough to be careful of looking opportunistic as scum.

Besides, if I

was

scum, I'd have two easy mislynches set up: Shadi and Maverick. Why would I go for you, especially after you had a town read on me?

[SalmonellaDreams]

I forgot we lynched Shadi. Huh.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I support a Marquis venge.

[SalmonellaDreams]

I forgot about Marquis.

I also forgot we lynched Shadi.

I'm forgetting a lot of things this game.

[SalmonellaDreams]

If you say so.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Stop trying to read me