Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Nachopappa]

Both are fishy. What is unnerving thus far:

1) The "Odd" cop. Don't you all think it is pretty coincidental that Baezu can ONLY investigate on odd nights (N1, N3, etc.). Elyse asks not to be investigated on N1, which makes the earliest time she can be investigated again N3. This is assuming that there is one investigative town role.

Then, Baezu got a no result on the first night. She "forgets" that she investigated someone, contrary to her own belief. Do you see where I'm getting at?

2) Both power roles are made known during D1, and both survive to live D2. There was still an NK made.

My gut is telling me someone's lying.

[Baezu]

I think that the two people attacking me for what I already referred to as an honest mistake are both scum. Perfect! Scum team = Elyse Ztife and RD so once I'm lynched and I flip cop town can actually win!

Good point about Elyse dodging the investigation for 2 more nights btw

[Baezu]

Elyse I want to think you're town. I really do! But I keep coming back to the same scummy feeling every time you make a post. I tried to ignore it d1 and give you the benefit of the doubt but at this point it's undeniable and can no longer be ignored.

[Grimgroove]

If anyone's claim is questionable, it's your's, miss odd-night-cop-no-result-on-Pere-JK-I-was-high.

Why did you go and do that?
Now I have to leave my vote on you.

This stylish summary of Baezu's claim is a missrep.

"Odd night cops" are not all that special. It is a common enough role, but uncommon enough to assume a newbie like Baezu wouldn't come up with it herself.
No result on Peregrine yes, which shouldn't be surprising as she was probably blocked. If I had been Baezu I woàuld have claimed "even night cop" to have scum confused,b ut again, she's a newbie. But I find her claim believable.
JK: Misrep. Baezu did get a "no result", and that had nothing to do with being high. She tried to check Slandaar instead of Peregrine.

The only thing I don't like are her investigative choices.

Elyse's claim can't really be checked tonight for the same reasons Baezu's claim couldn't be checked. I'm always very wary of millers.
But, why would she ask not to be checked, if she knew the mafia had a blocker? She could just pretend to welcome the visit, but secretly have Baezu blocked.

So actually, despite my intentions when starting to post this, I'll be removing my vote.

How many votes does Red Dragon have currently? I agree he should come out of the woodwork again. And time for chernobylcitybus to state his reasons.

[Grimgroove]

UNVOTE:

[chernobylcitybus]

I've been thinking that he is scum for pretty much the entire game, but for some reason his wagons just slowly dissipate without him actually doing anything at all.

[Slandaar]

Baezu is odd night cop gets no result on n1.
Elyse: immma miller JOAT I gonna vig tonight and prove I am town!

Well guess whats gonna happen if Baezu is town? Its all so very very convenient.

Let me think a bit about this and the merits of massclaiming.

Elyse: Why did you not claim miller in your first post?

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Slandaar]

The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar.

Why would the Mod do this?

It would actually be interfering with the game.

The reason I was going to investigate him was because he was a null for me and I wanted to confirm or deny whether or not he's town. The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar. Again, same reasoning for investigating him.

slandaar town

[Slandaar]

Lets just massclaim that is the solution and saves a lot of hassle.

RD
PV
Ztife
Cher
Sunny
Nacho
Stranger
Grim
Me

Massclaim allows us to find out what is going on NOW and that is important. Do not try to be clever and claim VT as a PR, we will be confirm towning Elyse/Baezu if there are not enough PR claims so do NOT fakeclaim as town. Doing so is hugely detrimental to the town, assumptions will be made based on what is claimed, by faking all you do is ensure those assumptions are wrong.

[Miss Stranger]

I've said it before and I'll say it now, there is no way I'll believe Baezu to be scum, unless that was a fake claim prepared in advance and she's just pretending to be a newbie, which is IMO pretty far fetched and a waste of time considering.

@Elyse:

Miller jack of all trades is about on the same level of ridiculousness as a NK immune overeager miller vig, aka SK. It's pretty much common sense why your ability can never be 100% tested, but let me explain it just in case, here's how one could possibly walk away:
- "Mafia kill failed"
- "Mafia killed the same target"
- "My target must've been doctored or bulletproof maf"
- "I must've been roleblocked"

That said, I'm all up for allowing you a night to prove it, but with a roleblocker around I have very low expectations. You are either scum or scum will frame you, there's simply nothing else that can happen.

@Slandaar:

No, just no. Outing more power roles in the face of the scum roleblocker will simply render everyone vanilla townie. Massclaim will likely soon happen, but not today.

[Grimgroove]

The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar.

Why would the Mod do this?

It would actually be interfering with the game.

The reason I was going to investigate him was because he was a null for me and I wanted to confirm or deny whether or not he's town. The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar. Again, same reasoning for investigating him.

slandaar town

These are very pertinent points I think. I have to admit my strong townread on Baezu is wavering. There's only so much slack one should give to a newbie.

[Miss Stranger]

@Nachopappa:

Elyse claimed her role on D2, not D1. That said, I don't entirely disbelieve her, I'm just taking her claim with a pinch of salt.

@chernobylcitybus, PeregrineV:

You have some explaining to do.

@Grimgroove:

The same can be asked as to why Elyse wants to be proved tonight if she knows she'll be roleblocked.

[Grimgroove]

I'd lynch Elyse in a heartbeat if it weren't for this:

Elyse's claim can't really be checked tonight for the same reasons Baezu's claim couldn't be checked. I'm always very wary of millers.

But, why would she ask not to be checked, if she knew the mafia had a blocker? She could just pretend to welcome the visit, but secretly have Baezu blocked.

Besides that, I find her claim bordering to the ridiculous and her behaviour very scummish.

But I don't want to make the same mistake I made with Darthe, where I (like you) didn't put enough value on the townish thing he did (the fakehammer).
This might be a very similar case. I see no reason why scum would issue the warning that Elyse issued. She knew she would end up having to explain it, basically amounting to the same thing as someone having her checked as scum. So why do this?

I guess you can bring in WIFOM, but somehow the warning seemed to come too naturally for such a farfetched plan.

[Miss Stranger]

Hmm, you're definitely right. But wouldn't welcoming an investigation followed by roleblock make her look even worse? Like she expected it. I don't know. On the other hand, begging not to be investigated knowing there's a roleblocker? The most natural thing scum would do is keep their mouth shut, there's no reason to beg or welcome an investigation if you knew cop won't get a report in either case.

You bring up a strong town tell, which can only be swayed by the unlikely fact Elyse wasn't aware she had a roleblocker on her team... OR it was a defence prepared in advance, knowing she'd likely be investigated. God, I'm overthinking this, ain't I?

It still bothers me she didn't claim miller right off the bat, as town not knowing cop would out or be blocked or as scum having prepared to claim miller should they not nail the cop very early.

[Slandaar]

My favorite role is cop because they win with the town but they have access to more information. When you play cop you have to analyze everyone's plays to try and figure out other town PRs as well as mafia and to know who to investigate at night.

My favorite role would have to be vig. I like being able to kill someone without anyone else weighing in.

See its funny because neither has said they breadcrumbed their role here.

[Slandaar]

Elyse's claim can't really be checked tonight for the same reasons Baezu's claim couldn't be checked. I'm always very wary of millers.
But, why would she ask not to be checked, if she knew the mafia had a blocker?

To try and sound town. 'HEY GUYS I AM A PR' she did have a lot of heat on her and then today was all 'I will explain it tomorrow!'

I have played a lot of mini normals and never seen such a ridiculous claim as Elyse's in them. Never. It just looks to me like she had to make up a claim to fit what she said so she came up with miller JOAT ... with a vig shot that amazingly can't go through if Baezu is town while it also gives her a free pass today.

[Red Dragon]

IMO, town-Darthe is very clearly town.

Here, it hasn't happened yet.

This is my reason.
Peregrine claims he recognizes town-Darthe through meta.
Darthe was town.
Peregrine didn't notice.
Peregrine lied.

This isn't so much scummy as being bad at the game. Being wrong is not a scum tell because town do it all the time, if not more so...

Vote: Red Dragon

Today, you will not distract us with all the AtE to cover up your scumminess this time. You tried to blind us with it, but that's not gonna work.

sure, fine, go ahead. I have been asking for it. Just, make sure that you have a back-up plan when for if you are wrong. That is all that I ask.

Why would I kill Nacho as scum? I would've killed you/Slandaar/Grim probably. It doesn't make sense for me to kill Nacho and I don't get why you would vote for someone with less votes if you think both are scum.

wifom.

Fine. I'm a miller JOAT.

I have one track, one protection, and one vig shot.

I didn't want Baezu to check me because I appear guilty obviously and it would've been a waste. I used my protection on her.

WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY? WHHHHHHY WHYYYYYYY/ Why did you just claim that you protected? Why would you do that?
Also, now we lose a cop and get no results. You shouldn't have claimed.

I can prove it with a vig shot tonight.

which will be rbed.

Are millers common here? Haven't encountered one tbh.

Need to think abit about baezu's claim as well, but definitely looks fishy.

semi common, yes. It is not out of the question. His role could be valid, even more so when considering that the town has two investigation roles.

[Grimgroove]

Fine. I'm a miller JOAT.

I have one track, one protection, and one vig shot.

I didn't want Baezu to check me because I appear guilty obviously and it would've been a waste. I used my protection on her.

WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY? WHHHHHHY WHYYYYYYY/ Why did you just claim that you protected? Why would you do that?
Also, now we lose a cop and get no results. You shouldn't have claimed.

This is a very, very good point.

Why did you claim that night action Elyse?

[Elyse]

You would've asked me regardless. And I breadcrumbed miller in my first post.

[Elyse]

And I'm not stupid enough to claim miller joat as scum. That doesn't even make sense. I wtf'd at my role when I got it but there's nothing I can do about it.

[Miss Stranger]

Legend:

-2

= scum;

-1

= scummy;

0

= null;

+1

= leaning town;

+2

= town.

PeregrineV (

-1

)

This person mostly sheeps and lurks. He muttered some lie about Darthe and hammered him without intent. I don't trust him.

Darthe (town)

As I said already, I was clearly wrong about him and gave far greater weight on the sheepportunistic jump upon Baezu than it actually deserved. At that point Baezu was oddly clingy for survival, which I explained to myself as either scum or a town power role, leaning towards the latter, which is why I believed her to be town despite the oddities. Of course, I kept my mouth shut, but once she claimed I was quickly to believe it because of my former read on her. Apparently Darthe just thought otherwise, but pulled up the wrong reason, which was glaringly scummy for me.

He made a point that he saw BP as scummy and me as null, because I saw the game very differently. This is a good time to remind others that I'm a late replacement and was fed enormous amounts of posts (lots of them pretty big, hi Grimgroove ) over very short time. My reads were almost exclusively ISO based rather than interaction-based, which may have caused noticeable distortion in my game view and alarmed Darthe. Sadly I can't read Day 1 the exact same way as the others, and I'm sure players who've replaced late in the game can relate.

His dying Fingers oS were on Red Dragon, on Baezu and on me for condemning his logic (#723) on the Baezu FoS. I will not back out my condemnation because his logic was extremely poor, not to mention Baezu is clearly town (I will later explain why she is town).

His case on RD was along the lines of "he's laying low", "he's self-voting", "he is upset because Sunny Days lynch died". Whether or not we should look deep into it remains questionable, seeing how his reads were mostly wrong.

Slandaar (

+2

)

I think Slandaar's play so far has been a classic analytical scumhunter, observing all angles and weighing his decision carefully, but once he's convinced of something, he will most likely defend it to the point when mod reveals the truth. I fear his rigidity might sway his decision in the wrong direction, but I like his confidence and passion. I can't help but imagine a marching general towards the enemy fortress who'd stop at nothing to destroy it. Strong town read from him at this point.

Grimgroove (

+2

)

Grimgroove's play is very similar to mine, except he drops ALL his thoughts down which makes him seem a little hesitating and consequently less charismatic. Notice how he and I said basically the same thing about Darthe in the end of the day, only his post was quite roundabout and more of a light conversation and mine was a direct, aggressive accusation. I do think he'd do good to be more confident, as a calm conversation wouldn't stress the scum and make them panic, but would rather allow them stay calm and build up a defence. However his scumhunting is excellent and I like how I think of something, then look at his post and see he thought the exact same thing. Obvious townie is obvious.

Ztife (

-1

)

Her involvement is flaking and her scum case against my predecessor was all in all a wall of IIoA about how NL on D1 is bad. Funny thing that Darthe had a town read on her precisely because of that post, which seemed to me, Baezu and Grimgroove scummy. I'd wait to see a little more from her, but so far I'm dissatisfied. I don't trust her.

Nachopappa (

0

)

Village jester? (the person, not the role). Odd sheeping, odd reasoning, seems very influenced by others' reactions, his attitude strikes me as town but his actions as scum, and he's basically impossible to read for me. He could be any role, any alignment. Leaning slightly towards town, though, but not enough to get a +1, sorry Nacho, I appreciate the appreciation though. :3

Baezu (

+2

)

This is why Baezu is town:

BP

I am no afraid and I'm not going to get lynched

. Sorry that my confidence intimidates you but a lot of my logic is not superficial - it comes from what the rules say are classic scum tells.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words

I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1

to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a

doctor out there who is willing to protect me

because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

Let's just hammer him and see instead of all this WIFOM. And

if I survive the nk we can talk about who's actually scummy tomorrow

.

I will claim if you force me but it won't be good for town

Not sure of the roles in this game or even what they are and how many they are but

I'd love to have doc prot tonight.

In case you still don't understand: she's been involuntarily copslipping so hard the entire game I can't even believe she's still considered scummy. I shouldn't even need to elaborate on this. It's just glaringly obvious.

Miss Stranger (

town

)

Clearly I'm obviously town, hi there :3


This took me a lot of time and effort to prepare and I need a break, besides I have some housework to do right now, so I'm leaving my other reads unelaborated, but will explain them later today if I can.

Nachomamma8 (town)

Red Dragon (

0

)

chernobylcitybus (

0

)

Elyse (

0

)

SunnyDays (

+2

)

[Nachopappa]

@Nachopappa:

Elyse claimed her role on D2, not D1. That said, I don't entirely disbelieve her, I'm just taking her claim with a pinch of salt.

Yes, but she breadcrumbed that she had some sort of a power role, such that she wished to not be investigated N1.

[Baezu]

The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar.

Why would the Mod do this?

It would actually be interfering with the game.

The reason I was going to investigate him was because he was a null for me and I wanted to confirm or deny whether or not he's town. The mod just informed me that I actually told him that I would investigate Slandaar. Again, same reasoning for investigating him.

slandaar town

The mod is keeping up with the thread and noticed that I was misinforming you guys. He wanted to make sure the right information was out there and so he pm'ed me to check if I was mistaken and I was

[Baezu]

My theory is that the people that are still accusing me are scum, MissStranger. There's no other reason for people to get so up in arms about me. That's what I would mark it down as.

@Slandaar, didn't realize I was breadcrumbing. I just genuinely like playing cop. Except when there's a RB and my role is completely useless.