Open 509: Friends and Enemies (Game Over)

[ellabelle]

I don't see why you shouldn't believe a mason claim in this setup. If someone fakeclaimed, all the real masons will know that and one could out them self to let everyone know. But in this situation two masons are outed, right? They both call each other mason buddy. If the true masons saw people doing that then they'd have two scum right there to lynch.

I have a really hard time buying that chesskid is a mason. Well, or eli for that matter. Both of their attitudes are not really contributing to progressing the game, which is what town, and especially known town, should be doing. We are supposed to be trying to weed out scum, no? I see somewhat of a fallacy in your argument that if the masons saw these two and knew that one or both of them weren't masons, that they would out themselves. What if they are simply biding time trying to stay alive so that they can continue scum hunting. PRs are high priority kills for scum, so it really could be self preservation on the mason's parts.

[Whiskers]

You requested that I make my information even more accessible while avoiding answering my question. Not scummy, just obnoxious. But seriously, why Nani?

Why
Nani
What?

I can't fucking answer your question because I understand what your question IS. Hey, Confid, why Satan? Why grass? Why parachuting?

Whiskers, why do you not believe the mason claim?

this please

also, mantis, unvoting to prevent hammer for what purpose? You do believe he is scum, right? Also, your unvote is unnecessary I think. if there was an quick hammer, there would be a quicklynch the next day... so.

He may believe there is scum, but other people on the wagon (Nani, for instance, who claims to be voting for pressure) don't.
Also, with the way this town is playing, I'm not so sure that there

would

be a quicklynch-- or, probably more insulting, the way this town is playing, if there was a quickhammer, they would certainly be town.

I don't fucking believe the Mason claim because there's no reason to make it; because a VT or Goon has lots of great reasons to claim Mason; because a Mason claiming Mason on page two "hurts town"; because ellibereth has decided to be so fucking useless that I'm inclined to disbelieve anything it says.
Enough reasons for you? More reasons than you have for wanting to lynch Thomas. Three more reasons, in fact.

[Whiskers]

I don't see why you shouldn't believe a mason claim in this setup. If someone fakeclaimed, all the real masons will know that and one could out them self to let everyone know. But in this situation two masons are outed, right? They both call each other mason buddy. If the true masons saw people doing that then they'd have two scum right there to lynch.

I have a really hard time buying that chesskid is a mason. Well, or eli for that matter. Both of their attitudes are not really contributing to progressing the game, which is what town, and especially known town, should be doing. We are supposed to be trying to weed out scum, no? I see somewhat of a fallacy in your argument that if the masons saw these two and knew that one or both of them weren't masons, that they would out themselves. What if they are simply biding time trying to stay alive so that they can continue scum hunting. PRs are high priority kills for scum, so it really could be self preservation on the mason's parts.

Also, this. Masons aren't fucking stupid enough to out themselves Day 1, not to push on some fakeclaiming masons. Especially when VTs have an incentive to fakeclaim mason just as much as scum do-- in fact, probably more than scum do.

[innocentvillager]

Sorry I haven't been following this game much but did two masons seriously out? Or was that a joke and people are taking this way too seriously

Mantis - Town. Voted me when I was making useless posts

I might be a mislynch target right now for scum but I'm sure there's some pro-town players voting me as well and that means they're doing their job. I already typed above that I have a town read on you, partly for coming after me but also other things and also partly just a gut feeling.

I think this post (182) is actually quite townie from Thomas, seems like newbtown admitting that he wasn't the greatest contributor and having a genuine townread on someone for their manner of fosing. This is generally a very town mindset. He's been reacting fairly well under pressure IMO, and I think the case on him is shallow. I wouldn't recommend a Thomas lynch today

[Nani]

I don't see why you shouldn't believe a mason claim in this setup. If someone fakeclaimed, all the real masons will know that and one could out them self to let everyone know. But in this situation two masons are outed, right? They both call each other mason buddy. If the true masons saw people doing that then they'd have two scum right there to lynch.

I have a really hard time buying that chesskid is a mason. Well, or eli for that matter. Both of their attitudes are not really contributing to progressing the game, which is what town, and especially known town, should be doing. We are supposed to be trying to weed out scum, no? I see somewhat of a fallacy in your argument that if the masons saw these two and knew that one or both of them weren't masons, that they would out themselves. What if they are simply biding time trying to stay alive so that they can continue scum hunting. PRs are high priority kills for scum, so it really could be self preservation on the mason's parts.

Why did you not take into account the fact that they could be scum?

[Nani]

Thomas- Why promise content and come up with pretty much nothing? And you are "upgrading" the rvs vote to a serious vote for what? Incentive to post? InnocentDreams has more content than you, so i dont get it. There must be somebody who looks scummy to you.

Mantis- Its not cherry picking. Fencesitting to me is scummy, and i call it out every time i see it. I have to admit, your last few posts look much better.

unvote

I need to think on this.

Nicol Bolas why attack Thomas for not coming up with pretty much nothing and then come up with pretty much nothing?

[Nani]

Sorry I haven't been following this game much but did two masons seriously out? Or was that a joke and people are taking this way too seriously

Mantis - Town. Voted me when I was making useless posts

I might be a mislynch target right now for scum but I'm sure there's some pro-town players voting me as well and that means they're doing their job. I already typed above that I have a town read on you, partly for coming after me but also other things and also partly just a gut feeling.

I think this post (182) is actually quite townie from Thomas, seems like newbtown admitting that he wasn't the greatest contributor and having a genuine townread on someone for their manner of fosing. This is generally a very town mindset. He's been reacting fairly well under pressure IMO, and I think the case on him is shallow. I wouldn't recommend a Thomas lynch today

Whom lynch would you recommend?

[Nani]

Now it would make sense for me to vote someone else right now but to be honest, nobody really comes up right away in my head as someone to vote. I have town reads but everyone else not mentioned above is just null. I think I'll just declare my RVS vote on innocentvillager as a serious vote for a little more motivation to post. Kind of like what happened to me.

Ftr and so Whiskers can stop misrepresenting and shitting, now my vote on Thomas is not for pressure and it's more like fence sitting scum.

[Mantisdreamz]

Whiskers, why do you not believe the mason claim?

this please

also, mantis, unvoting to prevent hammer for what purpose? You do believe he is scum, right? Also, your unvote is unnecessary I think. if there was an quick hammer, there would be a quicklynch the next day... so.

mostly because i didn't want the day to end.
also i'm not sure he's scum... actually post 198 where thomas says he honestly doesn't have scum reads, doesn't seem so bad.

[BS2000]

Oh shit stuffs happening, lemme read

[BS2000]

Without any kind of counter-claim, I have to believe eli and chesskid are masons. If they were scum, couldn't 1 true mason claim w/o giving scum easy targets? Gonna re-read thomas posts now.

[BS2000]

UNVOTE: thomas

Don't think he's scum anymore. I think my reasoning was his lurkiness, but he's posted good content since. The only thing I could say is that he isn't committing to a vote. I'm gonna re-read others right now.

[BS2000]

Whiskers I'm leaning town
Nani is null, some good some not so good
Gnomeo is interesting, whoever said sparse but helpful was on the nose. I'm gonna say town right now tho.

Gonna dig some more.

[Whiskers]

I think this post (182) is actually quite townie from Thomas, seems like newbtown admitting that he wasn't the greatest contributor and having a genuine townread on someone for their manner of fosing. This is generally a very town mindset. He's been reacting fairly well under pressure IMO, and I think the case on him is shallow. I wouldn't recommend a Thomas lynch today

That's great, unless Thomas is not a complete newbie, in which case that "townread" could very well have been put on to make you say, "ah, that's a very town move". I know, I've done it before.
Also, good scum would react well under pressure, no?

Why did you not take into account the fact that they could be scum?

She did take it into account, she just didn't mention it explicitly. Just like she didn't mentin explicitly the fact that they could be VTs. All ellabelle said was "I don't belieive they're masons".

This really makes you look dumb, imo. It doesn't look like you're misrepping, it looks like you just completely failed at comprehending what you read.

Ftr and so Whiskers can stop misrepresenting and shitting, now my vote on Thomas is not for pressure and it's more like fence sitting scum.

Uh, learn what "misrepping" means, because now you're misrepping me. I wasn't misrepping you-- that really

was

your explanation for the Thomas vote.
And, even if your vote is to lynch now, then you (plural) still only have one reason to lynch Thomas, that I've heard.

Without any kind of counter-claim, I have to believe eli and chesskid are masons. If they were scum, couldn't 1 true mason claim w/o giving scum easy targets? Gonna re-read thomas posts now.

No.
1: That would still give scum an easy target: the new mason.
2: Nobody would fucking believe. At least chesskid and elliebereth will back each other up. Like, if I stood up right and claimed mason, how many people do you think would follow me, vs TWO claimed masons? Maybe I'm scum attempting a gambit?

[Whiskers]

Gnomeo is interesting, whoever said sparse but helpful was on the nose. I'm gonna say town right now tho.

Yes and that is the purest description of perfect scum play.

Gnomeo, I really, really want to like you but the "sparse but helpful" thing is freaking me out. Active lurking, but saying what everyone is thinking (more concisely, I might add) is really, really safe play and makes you look like scum, to me.

[chesskid3]

dem scum coming out of the woodwork to save their buddy

[Thomas]

I have a really hard time buying that chesskid is a mason. Well, or eli for that matter. Both of their attitudes are not really contributing to progressing the game, which is what town, and especially known town, should be doing. We are supposed to be trying to weed out scum, no? I see somewhat of a fallacy in your argument that if the masons saw these two and knew that one or both of them weren't masons, that they would out themselves. What if they are simply biding time trying to stay alive so that they can continue scum hunting. PRs are high priority kills for scum, so it really could be self preservation on the mason's parts.

I have a feeling that's just how they play. Do you view them on the opposite side of the spectrum as scum? Do you think they're VTs and are just playing along with each other? I don't agree with everything chesskid does but that doesn't make him scum and it's how some people play - as town. But if you dodn't think either of the claimed masons are scum right now then this probably isn't the best time for this discussion because deadline is getting closer.

Also, this. Masons aren't fucking stupid enough to out themselves Day 1, not to push on some fakeclaiming masons. Especially when VTs have an incentive to fakeclaim mason just as much as scum do-- in fact, probably more than scum do.

I gotta admit, I was surprised to see two masons claimed on page two. But now that you guys have this discussion, I almost feel like you guys are the real masons trying to get people to realize the claims on page two were fake without outing yourself but I might be over-thinking this and it's a distraction from scum hunting, anyway. Actually I'm really confused about this mason stuff now.

Now it would make sense for me to vote someone else right now but to be honest, nobody really comes up right away in my head as someone to vote. I have town reads but everyone else not mentioned above is just null. I think I'll just declare my RVS vote on innocentvillager as a serious vote for a little more motivation to post. Kind of like what happened to me.

Ftr and so Whiskers can stop misrepresenting and shitting, now my vote on Thomas is not for pressure and it's more like fence sitting scum.

Where's the misrepping? I don't know why you had to quote my post to say this, by the way.

[Gnomeo]

Also, this. Masons aren't fucking stupid enough to out themselves Day 1, not to push on some fakeclaiming masons. Especially when VTs have an incentive to fakeclaim mason just as much as scum do-- in fact, probably more than scum do.

I have a really hard time buying that chesskid is a mason. Well, or eli for that matter. Both of their attitudes are not really contributing to progressing the game, which is what town, and especially known town, should be doing. We are supposed to be trying to weed out scum, no? I see somewhat of a fallacy in your argument that if the masons saw these two and knew that one or both of them weren't masons, that they would out themselves. What if they are simply biding time trying to stay alive so that they can continue scum hunting. PRs are high priority kills for scum, so it really could be self preservation on the mason's parts.

If they were lying, the real masons would have counterclaimed and we would have gotten 2 easy lynches. There are no reasons for the masons not to claim if it meant catching 2 scum.

Gnomeo, I really, really want to like you but the "sparse but helpful" thing is freaking me out. Active lurking, but saying what everyone is thinking (more concisely, I might add) is really, really safe play and makes you look like scum, to me.

Well it's not so much active lurking than just a lack of time at the moment. I disagree on saying what everyone is thinking. I make up my own mind and share my reads how they come. If that makes you think I'm scum, that's fine, but don't go inventing reasons to make me look bad. The majority of your posts make me think you're town though. But the Mason thing has made me doubt you. However, I still feel good about my current vote so keep going.

[Ellibereth]

busy few days with stuff
catch up later today

[ellabelle]

Gnomeo is interesting, whoever said sparse but helpful was on the nose. I'm gonna say town right now tho.

Yes and that is the purest description of perfect scum play.

Gnomeo, I really, really want to like you but the "sparse but helpful" thing is freaking me out. Active lurking, but saying what everyone is thinking (more concisely, I might add) is really, really safe play and makes you look like scum, to me.

It's also a good description of a pro VT. People do get busy ya know. I am okay if someone is sparse, as long as they are progressing the game. Until Gnomeo is one of the last 4 or so standing, I don't think there is much of a reason to think he is not town, especially not with the level of jackassery of so many in this game.

[NicolBolas]

Hm.

Elliberth/Chesskid mason claim- I don't see a reason to doubt the claim. It'd be a profoundly stupid move if scum ever claimed mason, so...

Nani- He promised content, and ended up calling the masons town and pracitally everyone null. How is that content? But yes, you're right, i have not been giving much content so far...

I'm not sure what to think. this mason talk is confusing me a bit.

[chesskid3]

also

I'm a tomato

err...

dem proddodges

[chesskid3]

wens deadline

[Plessiez]

ConfidAnon and NicCage are being prodded.

[Plessiez]

Vote Count 1.9

It's day 1. Deadline for the day is

18th July, 3:20 EST

. That's

(expired on 2013-07-18 03:20:27)

.

13 players remain: BS2000, chesskid3, ConfidAnon, ellabelle, Ellibereth, Gnomeo, innocentvillager, Mantisdreamz, Nani, NicCage, NicolBolas, Thomas, Whiskers

Thomas

[4 votes] (ConfidAnon, Nani, chesskid3, Ellibereth)

Nani

[3 votes] (ellabelle, Gnomeo, Whiskers)

NicCage

[1 vote] (innocentvillager)

innocentvillager

[1 vote] (Thomas)

chesskid3

[1 vote] (NicCage)

3 players are not voting

: {BS2000, Mantisdreamz, NicolBolas}

With

13

alive it takes

7

votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.