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Post Post #3075 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:11 am

Post by bv310 »

In post 3073, kdowns wrote:
In post 3072, Nuwen wrote:card is obv bad, it dies to removal
What Card?
Every card that's not Sigarda
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Post Post #3076 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:21 am

Post by InflatablePie »

Reck: :3

Also available in Bant (flicker), BUG ( removal) and Junk (both).

I guess R gives you Frenzied Tilling though.
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Post Post #3077 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:24 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 3076, InflatablePie wrote:Reck: :3

Also available in Bant (flicker), BUG ( removal) and Junk (both).

I guess R gives you Frenzied Tilling though.
And Demolish.
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Post Post #3078 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:52 am

Post by bv310 »

Meh, go for the throat and do Deadeye+Acidic Slime.
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Post Post #3079 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:23 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

also, aetherling.
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Post Post #3080 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:42 am

Post by InflatablePie »

Demolish is bad though. <_<

I need to run Deadeye+Slime before rotation; never did make that deck happen.

---

So, my Esper Aggro deck isn't working out in a local meta full of control and whatnot... so I'm trying something new. I was looking up the RB Trading Post decks and some people in the later threads eventually moved on to using Homicidal Seclusion over it. So someone posted a deck I liked and I changed it around a bit:

2x Aetherling

3x Azorius Charm
3x Dissipate
3x Far / Away
4x Syncopate
4x Think Twice
1x Feeling of Dread

2x Supreme Verdict
4x Terminus

2x Haunted Plate Mail

3x Homicidal Seclusion
2x Oblivion Ring

2x Gideon, Champion of Justice

2x Cavern of Souls
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Godless Shrine
4x Hallowed Fountain
2x Plains
3x Isolated Chapel
4x Watery Grave

Sideboard:

3x Appetite for Brains
1x Blind Obedience
2x Celestial Flare
3x Dispel
1x Pithing Needle
3x Renounce the Guilds
2x Rest in Peace


Essentially, it's UW control splashing black for Far/Away and Homicidal Seclusion. It uses Wraths and other removal to clear the board for a single swinger: Plate Mail, giant Gideon, or Aetherling, and swings in for a bunch of lifelink damage.

The original list ran Devour Flesh and something else black I think, and a Reap Intellect in the board (which I'd like to try out but meh). I noticed it was mostly WU anyway, so I dropped some black sources and threw in two Plains (slightly better mana this way; I've drawn all checklands SO MANY TIMES). Far/Away comes out for Appetite usually anyway, so meh. It's almost similar to an Azorius list I saw on tcgplayer, except this one bashes in with lifelink creatures instead of using Sphinx's and Drownyard (don't wanna spend $60 for 3 Sphinx's :<)
Last edited by InflatablePie on Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #3081 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:43 am

Post by Fate »

lol i remember reading about the hanweir watchkeep or w/e werewolf deck. I guess tahts what dragon stompy has become
Last edited by Fate on Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #3082 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:46 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Pie I'm stealing that list to play test
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Post Post #3083 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:51 am

Post by InflatablePie »

Go for it. It's a work in progress; let me know how it does.

original list
also this
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Post Post #3084 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:33 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

The mail-seclusion package just seems pretty bad. Seclusion is going to be a dead card some unacceptable percentage of the time, and your finishers don't need the help it gives. I'd rather play some more control elements or a finisher that is better than the mail.
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Post Post #3085 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:36 pm

Post by Fate »

if youre going the 1 creature route, Demonic Rising beats the shit out of homicidal seclusion pretty much every day
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Post Post #3086 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:38 pm

Post by Fate »

especially since the mail is hard to remove and can be activated any time.


Nuwen did this trick with rakdos keyrune+demonic rising. She also had vampire night haawks and other shit to be a bit more creature dense to get it online though.

its pretty powerful once online 5/5 demons no joke son
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Post Post #3087 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:40 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Yeah, I can see that. I just don't think its necessary. With a control list like this, at the point where you're comfortable swinging, you just don't need the effect that it provides.
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Post Post #3088 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:44 pm

Post by Fate »

it definitely feels kinda shoved in there.... I don't think it will do you want you want most of the time Pie, since you're running 4 total things that enable the "Seclusion" engine?

If youre gonna go for it, go balls deep with Lone Revenant , VNH and shit.
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Post Post #3089 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:48 pm

Post by InflatablePie »

They both have their uses. The thing about Seclusion over Rising is the lifelink, which I kinda like better than an extra Demon. Especially in a deck where you may need to stabilize life totals, especially if you aren't running Sphinx's. Also mana costs (doubleblack).

Shea, I understand your points. I still like Mail though; it protects Gideon and gets Seclusion bonus if it's all I have. As for why I'm playing these over other control/finishers, I'd play 3 Sphinx's and just Aetherling as a finisher if I had the money.

I'll think things over if I actually end up running the deck and don't just go back to RG Aggro.


Also, Reck, I just saw another neat deck on r/spikes if you want something else to playtest...

Spoiler: Hexproof
http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments ... _the_best/

Image

I've been meaning to type up a primer and this is a perfect reason to do so. I also shouldn't have posted a 'rogue' deck here in spikes without fully thinking about this first. My apologies to the subreddit. :) So anyways, here we go:

Put 100 bant hexproof players in a room (oh god), sit them down and ask them all what is the number one thing that costs them the game. (Outside of the tendency of the deck to make you want to pull out your hair due to such high variance.) Almost 100% of them will say that wipes or pseudo-wipes is their bane. Now of course they can counter that come post-board (with a mediocre, reactive answer IMO, rootborn defenses.) Now this puts the hexproof deck in an awkward position, you can keep your 3 mana up when you expect a wipe next turn and fall behind when they just tempo you out instead or you can just pray they don't have it and put a bunch of auras on your dude. So let's do some thinking, what is a cheaper and overall better answer to wipes that also has 3 major uses and costs 1 less mana?

Boros Charm


That is the bread and butter, and there are FOUR mainbdeck. The obvious use is the indestructibility, add in the fact you have reach with 4 damage off the top and you replace the whole Silverblade Paladin gimmick with this simple 2 mana instant and you have a card that bant hexproof can only wish they had access to. Since we have that out of the way let's go through the deck card type by card type.

CREATURES


Judge's Familiar


All hexproof decks need access to a one drop, you simply will fall way too far behind if you don't have one in a lot of match-ups, especially on the draw. If worse comes to worst and they have an aggressive opening you simply CANNOT wait to put auras on your turn 2 creature during your turn 3 while they throw their one drop, Burning Tree, and insert card here at you.

The thing that makes the judge special is that is EATS up removal. When people see you play an untapped shockland and take two to get this dude out they knee-jerk react and put way too much priority on it. I've had so many games where they kill the owl just to have me drop a fencing ace and all the auras I have during the turns after. Also the sac ability is extremely relevant in regards to anti-countermagic and anti-tempo. You will not believe how many people forget about this ability.

Against a lot of decks you can get away with even putting your auras on him, not only does he have built in evasion but it's impossible not to be able to cast him on turn one because of the hybrid cost! When you look at all the one drops in standard in these colors this guy is leaps and bounds above the rest, and on top of that he actually fits into a 'hexproof/auras' deck rather well.

Invisible Stalker/Fencing Ace


The brothers-in-arms from hexproof decks past and present are at it again but with some new toys this time around (come the auras section you will see). They need no explanation. You play them as you would any hexproof deck. Play them safely and pay attention to how your opponent is playing. Invisible Stalker is the trusty 2 drop while if you are facing the right deck/don't mind taking risks you can drop the Fencing Ace on turn 2. Try to get a read on your opponent though, because I won't lie... dropping a fencing ace and trying to pants him up on turn 3 only to have him killed in response is always painful and quite hard to come back from. That's the nature of Fencing Ace though, if you can get him to stick he will win the game before turn 4 is over. He is just that good. He helps you learn risk/reward times 30,000.

Geist of Saint Traft


Seriously, this dude makes me get goosebumps. How thrilling it is to play with him when he is the backbone in a deck and all the new auras he gets in this color shard makes me excited beyond compare. Playing with him is less straight-forward than you may think though. It's always hard to choose whether to sandbag your auras for him or go all in on a stalker/ace. How to use him is completely situational based on your opponent and what his opening is.

AURAS


Ethereal Armor/Furor of the Bitten


The good old one mana for a HUGE upside cards (even when they are the only auras the cost/effect is insane)

Armor is good on turn 3, armor is good on turn 13. Armor is always good. Whether it's adding +6/+6 and first strike or +1/+1 and first strike it is probably the aura you want to see in your opening hand above any other. The cost is so cheap and it works rather well with the other one drop aura.

Furor of the Bitten? What in the hell is that card you ask. Well Mangus Khan this little gem is efficient and effective on every-single-one of your creatures. It makes Geist big enough where he doesn't give a fuck about anything (obviously don't put it on him if they have defensive smiters.. you get the drill) and it makes everyone else effective beaters. (There have been many games where I've turn one familiar'd and turn 2 Furor'd him and outraced my opponent easily.) The 'drawback' of having to attack every turn is mitigated by the fact that you're going to be either getting in unblockable/with evasion. Or you are going to be on a double striking body/beefy Geist minimum. Furor plays excellently with other auras and multiple furors with an ethereal armor are the biggest bang for your buck you are going to get in any hexproof deck hands down. Double striking 8/8 Fencing Aces swinging in on turn 3 is actually the norm as cool as that sounds. Turn 4 kills are more or less when this deck wins and it's because of the power of Furor a lot of times.

Spectral Flight/Madcap Skills


Not much to say about Spectral, it's in every hexproof deck for a reason. Evasion and +2/+2 for one blue and one colorless is pretty hard to compete with. It lets Geist bust through ground pounders with the greatest of ease. Seriously, as a competitive magic player anyone of you will understand why this card works in this deck. :)

Now, part of me wants to say Boros Charm is the reason I play this deck. That would be wrong though, the only thing more fun than Boros Charm and all of it's massive uses is my little friend that gives 3 power and an EXTREMELY relevant ability for just one red and one colorless.

Madcap Skills my friends, this card is B O N K E R S on any of the creatures in this deck. In your head right now think about how it works with each creature, think about the power it adds and think about the pseudo-evasion it adds. It makes combat a nightmare for the opponents. Turn one Familiar into turn 2 Madcap Skills? Check. Turn 2 Fencing Ace into turn 3 Skills and Armor? Check. Turn 3 Geist into turn 4 double Madcap Skills? Check. Seriously, all of the auras in this deck mix and match soo well and the fact that big boomers are all TWO mana auras makes me giddy like a little girl on giddy little girl day. We more speed/quickness/explosiveness and the ability to rebuild after something bad happens much easier/cheaper than Bant hexproof: advantage USA.

Madcap skills has won me so many games where they only have one creature. Oh you have a defensive Loxodon that is going to murder Mr. Traft if he attacks? Sorry sir maybe next time.. and bring a friend. :/ Oh you have a defensive Reckoner that would usually end Mr. Trafts day early? Nope, sorry brother. You need two creatures now to stop my one and do you think I'm lollygagging while you set up your defense? Nope. I'm actually putting spectral flight on Sir Geisty and now you need two flying creatures just to slow him down for a turn. Thank you, come again.

Gift of Orzhova


Lastly we have this little treat. This is our Unflinching Courage, this helps up clamber back into the game against any nuts draw from aggro. This is Geists BEST FRIEND. This card is relevant late game, early game and during ANY part in the game. If you can connect even once with this aura attached to any of your creatures you have bought yourself a turn at minimum to set up your master plan. The mana is perfect for this deck as well. Double white and a colorless is the easiest to cast life-gaining aura in standard and I will trade flying for trample and +1/+1 any day. This card in itself makes it so your Geist is the most efficient machine. At minimum you are hitting for 7 and gaining 3 back. Trust me your usually not just going to have a creature with this aura only. Most of the time we are looking at Spectral Flight, Armor and Orzhova on St. Traft. Yeah I'll swing for 12 and gain 8 life back, thank you.

LANDS
(Yes, there is an extremely important land in this deck.)

Slayers' Stronghold


Something that hexproof has always had trouble against was matches where their opponents can deal with their threats and make the game drag out a long time (think both players have ten lands) Many decks can do this but whereas with Bant you will topdeck a creature and drop it only to have them deal with it before you can swing this strange little Avacyns 50 cent rare changes EVERYTHING. Now you can actually put use to your late game topdecks with the haste function. I've gotten so many control decks to less than 10 life and they turn the corner and are able to deal with all my threats. This is BAD for hexproof. With bant I feel powerless, every time I drop a creature they smack it down before I can untap. Now I can sandbag a few auras and wait for a creature and BOOM attack with a topdecked Geist with 2 auras on it because of haste. This has caught more decks off-guard than you can shake a stick at, and if I wasn't in the USA colors I couldn't even dream of winning with hexproof when it comes to topdeck wars.

SIDEBOARD/MATCH-UP/SUMMARY


Ah the board, where the boys become the men. Against a lot of decks you actually will do NO boarding because you can race just the same, but some decks do cause some trouble post-board. When needed though, the board is where I feel this deck outperforms Bant again.

Nearhearth Pilgrim/Boros Reckoner/Gift of Orzhova


Nothing tells the oppositions aggro deck you love them like this suite. Oh hey there Naya Blitz, R/G aggro, Jund aggro or any creature based matchup.. hope you don't mind if I attach my Pilgrim to an unblockable stalker with 3 power boosting auras on him. You got me down to 5 life while you are at 17? Pretty normal occurrence to be honest, don't fret though. Now watch as I gain ten life per turn and you can do nothing about it. It's tempting to suit up an Familiar or Fencing ace in this matchup but they ALWAYS have the spear. Keep that in mind. Play smart and tight and even on the draw it's pretty hard to lose if you get even one of your sideboard cards.

Wait, you're telling me that my hexproof deck has the mana base to support Reckoner? Oh well let's see how it works. Let me assure you, it works. Once again against any creature based deck I will happily slow my roll a turn or two to play my Reckoner instead of my Geist. Obviously if I am on the play and have an opportunity to slam a Geist and they don't have the 'nuts Blitz draw' I will still do so.

Lastly 2 more copies of Gift, I cannot tell you how often I have fallen to sub 5-10 life and this single card has pulled me out of the hole when Bants Unflinching Courage could not. The evasion is absolutely amazing and once again well worth the 1 power and trample.

Tajic, Blade of the Legion/Cavern of Souls/Purify the Grave


One thing any kind of hexproof has trouble with as mentioned before in the Slayers Stronghold section is when control decks/jund midrange decks turn the corner versus you. Slayers Stronghold can only do so much when they have a grip full of counterspells, board wipes, Revelations, Olivias, and other creature kill. This is where our secret weapon comes in. The 4 mana CMC of Big Daddy Tajic really is negligible when the game goes on long and when he hits the table there are only a few cards in standard that can interact with him the way your opponents want to. Naming human with Cavern always get my opponents scratching their head until they see him come down. He suits up and finishes the game shortly after. A caverned Tajic is a lot of decks worst nightmare and once he puts an aura or two on, the indestructibility really shines. I would almost prefer it over hexproof to be honest.

The Purifies are there to keep Snapcaster Mage/Aristocrats/reanimator decks honest. You don't even really need to side them in that often because we have VERY good match-up versus these decks already but constant flash-backed lingering souls can gunk up the board just enough to slow us down to the point where they can turn the corner themselves.

The board is fairly self-explanatory, the only thing that throws people off is Tajic at first, but he shores up a lot of weaknesses while also being in our slice of color pie. I see this card seeing a lot of standard play post rotation and I'm just hopping on the train ahead of time. Post board he has single-handedly taken so many games off of control decks by himself (with the help of caverns of course) and will continue to do so.

---

Do you ever have trouble with the mana base?


No, I have played over 100 matches with this list and I can honestly say this is a strength over Bant, we can always cast our turn one Familiar and literally every step on the curve is covered from most of our lands. Topping out at three and having Gift of Orzhova be hybrid mana (let alone how easy it is to cast reckoner post board) really help this super strong mana base. The fact that most of power enchantments cost ONE colored mana and maybe one colorless really help this cause. The power level of madcap skills versus the casting cost/how easy it is to cast in this deck really really push it hard.

How does this deck mulligan?


Very well for the same reasons as above. The owl being hybrid mana absolutely helps tons and having so many cheap CMC enchantments makes even mulligans to 5 extremely doable. I'd say I mulligan 1 out of 7 games, compared to when I played Bant I had to mulligan what seemed like every other game.

Describe your match ups?


Coming soon.

Do you choose this over bant because of the inevitability of surviving board wipes?


Coming soon.
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Post Post #3090 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:53 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

How is this better than the bant version?
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Post Post #3091 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:58 pm

Post by InflatablePie »

Not sure if it's better, I said it was neat. They look even minus whatever Bant got from M14 (Witchstalker and... whatever else). Main reason to play it seems to be Boros Charm (although Bant gets access to Pilgrim+Voice).

Both decks die to Terminus though so shrug.
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Post Post #3092 (ISO) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:27 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Voice makes it not even close, imo. And unflinching courage/rancor are a pretty competting reason to play green.
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Post Post #3093 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:41 am

Post by Fate »

built in lifegain on fiendslayer paladin is literally retarded.

"So guys, the only way r/b decks can interact with this is by creatures! This makes it better than giving it protection"

"um, what r/b dudes actually block well?"

"Iunno... reckoner?"

"What if they give paladin flying? Suit it up with sweet enchantments from Theros, etc?"

"O.... well it doesnt say hexproof so we didnt..... o.... Overload a mortars? >__>"

fucking

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Post Post #3094 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:48 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

BYEBYE extended
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Post Post #3095 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:30 am

Post by AGar »

I really thought Extended was already dead with the advent of Modern, so to find out it was being officially retired today was a strange shock.
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Post Post #3096 (ISO) » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:43 am

Post by bv310 »

Yeah, it's been dead since the first Modern announcement, but now it's just official.
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Post Post #3097 (ISO) » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:20 am

Post by InflatablePie »

Image
If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?

No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
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Fate
Fate
:HAPPY:
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Posts: 26090
Joined: January 23, 2010
Location: Eternity

Post Post #3098 (ISO) » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:25 am

Post by Fate »

lol yeva is like a 20cent magic card.


I'm going to flash stomp my way to some victories
Fate is absurdly beautiful. 運命に弄ばれる
"Fate you keep alternating between narratives of doing it for fun and doing it for the sake of winning"
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bv310
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Location: La Loche, Saskatchewan

Post Post #3099 (ISO) » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:34 am

Post by bv310 »

Pfft, get on my cheese-bag level:

22 Shadowborn Apostle
1 Shadowborn Demon
1 Griselbrand
3 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Reaper from the Abyss

4 Tragic Slip
3 Sign in Blood
3 Immortal Servitude

22 Swamp

SB: 2 Shrivel
SB: 2 Door of Destinies
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 4 Lifebane Zombie
SB: 3 Elixir of Immortality

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