Mini 1476: Dewey Decimal Mafia (Game Over)

[Jake from State Farm]

I have caught you in a lie, maybe not a HUGE lie but one nontheless. and proably more than 1 actually.

Please explain how you say you didn't vote tip when he was a town read, when your vote on him came only 14 minutes after calling him a town read.

And I did iso you and flay together, and if you agreed with him it was for some insignificant issue that didn't stand out.

[Amrun]

Because the conversation I had with tip made him scummy, which I, y'know, stated explicitly. I don't understand how you can fail that hard at reading.

Times I have lied this game: 0

[saulres]

In our last vote count, we saw how Melvil Dewey helped women attain jobs. Did that make him a good person? The site http://bitchmagazine.org/post/from-the- ... ians-women doesn't think so. It says that "a major reason Dewey wanted women to enter the field was because he felt women were ideal for the repetitiveness of library work and “didn‘t cause trouble.”" According to them and their sources, "he had sexually harassed women at ALA conferences." They conclude "Melvil Dewey does not deserve credit as any kind of advocate for women’s rights or professional advancement. And his contributions to the profession of librarianship in no way cancel out his sleaziness and sexism."

This bears further investigation into his character, don't you think? We'll explore that in our next vote count.

Vote Count 1.10

L-4 spicer1209 -Amrun, Mr. Flay
L-4 Ingrid - TheIrishPope, Darox
L-5 Jake from State Farm

repl. mozamis

- notscience
L-5 Kid A - Jake from State Farm

repl. mozamis

L-5 TheIrishPope - Ingrid
L-5 Mr. Flay - Kid A
L-5 gorckat - spicer1209
L-5 notscience - gorckat
L-6 Amrun -
L-6 Darox -

Not voting:

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-08-05 22:23:44)

[Jake from State Farm]

Flay called you town before you hinted he was town, not the other way around - lie 1

You say you didn't vote tip when he was a town read but 14 minutes after calling him town you vote him - lie 2

Possible lies

Saying you explained your town read on tip (I don't see a post where you really do that)

Saying you agreed with flay (don't really see this one either)

vote: amrun

[Amrun]

Because you're basically posting everything I want to, about half an hour earlier.

Right, yeah, we never agreed on anything! Makes perfect sense.

[Amrun]

Oh, I never said "lie 1" by the way. I just said I hinted he was town, not that I did it before he called me town. Of course it was after; I was playing into hai buddying. Super dense.

"Lie 2" is more of you just blatantly not reading.

[Jake from State Farm]

Because you're basically posting everything I want to, about half an hour earlier.

Right, yeah, we never agreed on anything! Makes perfect sense.

Flay saying he agreed with you =/= you saying you agreed with him

And you voted tip cause Darox suggested it, nothing in that 14 minutes was said that would change a town read. It really looks like you were buddying Darox.

[Amrun]

Like, you're SO ridiculously wrong that I don't think you'd even try to push that as scum if you knew you were that wrong, so more likely it isn't alignment indicative at all.

P-edit:

Please read, Jesus shit.

Flay and I were pushing the same scumreads at the same time, and if he agreed with me, then we believed the same things, which necessarily means that I agreed with him. It's not that hard.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh, I never said "lie 1" by the way. I just said I hinted he was town, not that I did it before he called me town. Of course it was after; I was playing into hai buddying. Super dense.

"Lie 2" is more of you just blatantly not reading.

Nothing in your iso suggests you "hinted" at flay was town before he called you town. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

[Amrun]

Let's make this a little more clear.

It muddies the waters and broadens the level of acceptable behavior for scum.

Here you say that scum can fly under the radar. Or am I mistaken?

I have NO idea what you're trying to say.

What you did is both bad for the meta game and this particular game. I have you as a slight town lean despite of it, not because of it. It is closer to null now because you didn't actually do anything interesting with it.

I liked how he aggressively pursued what people thought of him, at first, but ten he did NOTHING with it.

And then I re-read where he questioned Darox's list and felt increasingly weird about it; if he were town really looking for reactions, wouldn't he note that Darox's list was relative to who was or wasn't on his own wagon?

P-edit:

Omg no

Lynch that

He might be a jester at this point but that still needs to be lynched so whatever

At first, I liked how TiP was unafraid of votes and was pursuing people about them, as if to make sure right commented on his controversial scum claim.

Then, I got drawn into a conversation with tip in which he was aggressively scummy, SO scummy, in fact that I thought he might be a jester doing it ON PURPOSE. This conversation showed that he was NOT, in fact, being especially cognitive about the reactions to him, which reversed my previously slight town read on him and led me to vote him.

[Amrun]

Oh, I never said "lie 1" by the way. I just said I hinted he was town, not that I did it before he called me town. Of course it was after; I was playing into hai buddying. Super dense.

"Lie 2" is more of you just blatantly not reading.

Nothing in your iso suggests you "hinted" at flay was town before he called you town. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Yes, I know. Because I didn't. I never claimed I did. In fact, I said the opposite of that. Jesus fuck.


Also preview edits seem not to be working on my phone right now idk why

[Jake from State Farm]

Like, you're SO ridiculously wrong that I don't think you'd even try to push that as scum if you knew you were that wrong, so more likely it isn't alignment indicative at all.

P-edit:

Please read, Jesus shit.

Flay and I were pushing the same scumreads at the same time, and if he agreed with me, then we believed the same things, which necessarily means that I agreed with him. It's not that hard.

1. I don't think I'm wrong at all, you are the one who's wrong.
2. Flay pretty much stayed on tip, he didn't switch to spicer when you did the first time. Later when he finally did he did it for something gorckat pointed out, not you. ALSO flay was calling tip scum when you were calling him town so obviously he didn't agree with you. He even asked why spicer was scummier than tip, which means he was QUESTIONING you not agreeing with you. It's more apparent you are the one buddying people, not flay.

[Amrun]

1. I just said you don't think you're wrong, which is why you being so hilariously wrong isn't scummy, just wrong.
2. We agreed with each other's pushes, whether you see it or not. Also, how you can reach the conclusion that I was buddying Flay over him buddying me is pretty fucking ludicrous. It doesn't even remotely make sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh, I never said "lie 1" by the way. I just said I hinted he was town, not that I did it before he called me town. Of course it was after; I was playing into hai buddying. Super dense.

"Lie 2" is more of you just blatantly not reading.

Nothing in your iso suggests you "hinted" at flay was town before he called you town. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Yes, I know. Because I didn't. I never claimed I did. In fact, I said the opposite of that. Jesus fuck.


Also preview edits seem not to be working on my phone right now idk why

You never claimed to hint you had a town read on flay? Bullshit

I never actually called flay obvtown,

though I purposefully hinted I had a town read on him.

I wanted to see if it would affect his behavior (it did).

I've had a scumread on mr. Flay for most of the day.

Booyah, caught scum. Now vote amrun.

[Amrun]

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

Yes, I hinted that I had a town read on Flay. I did not do it BEFORE he said he had a town read on me.

I've said this literally three times now.

Think about what you are fucking posting.

[Mr. Flay]

Flay, detail the progression of your reads on both me and tip.

TheIrishPope

1. TIP starts off claiming scum, because lolreactions or because TIP. It's still a stupid distracting antitown thing to do.
   
2. Then he's useless for another 11 posts. ISO 12 he finally gets around to posting at least some commentary on someone else that isn't spam or theory. ISO 13 he votes Amrun for "having knowledge he is Town", which is lolcase. It does provide distancing though, without actually advancing a plausible wagon, and puts the words "Town" and "TIP" together nicely in the reader's brain.
   
3. ISO 16 he calls both himself AND Amrun (the person he's voting, for those reading along at home) TvT. Cute. Why not unvote, then?
   
4. ISo 18 he says "L-2" gleefully. If he's scum, that means he has buddies on the wagon he can count on to drop off as needed. Who is on the wagon? Flay, Amrun, Darox.
   
5. ISO 19 he claims "not scum, just stupid".
   
6. Then in ISO 23 he claims "unlynchable" and confirmable, without sufficient pressure to make it necessary to do so. More distraction.
   
7. Continues to fuck around, not taking the wagon or anyone seriously until ISO 30 when he "suddenly" realizes he can't use his as-yet-unspecified-but-clearly-powerful-please-don't-lynch-me role on himself.
   
8. Sugar crash. Goes after Ingrid instead of his wagon. By ISO 49 he reiterates that he and Amrun are both Town.
   
9. Continues going after Ingrid, including the now-famous "analysis" post 256 which fucking nobody bought. Why should we? He's not actually trying. He's just going "words words claim lol nope words" with no utility.
   
10. "But this isn't town motivated, gorc.". I'm just going to leave this here.
    
11. ISO 70 he claims to be "very good at finding scum" with no real evidence to back it up (one game where he named names on D1? Whooptybatfuck, anybody can hit a barn once in a blue moon, and you suspected most of the playerlist of being Chenoan's partner, AND called Telo Town before you died) and wants to be left around until LyLo where he can "work wonders". Yeah no.
    
12. words words words
    
13. Oooh, Darox is a Dayvig? Suddenly TIP is paying attention again.

Amrun

1. Amrun comes in all friendly and bouncy and making a goofy vote on gorckat. Null tell, probably just her personality.
   
2. FIRST reaction to TIP's scumclaim is not to comment on the scum claim, but to think about a different game. Wat. Figures it out, then... disappears for about 75 minutes to other games, and ONLY THEN comes back to vote TIP for the scumclaim. What changed? gorckat challenged him to selfhammer.
   
3. By ISO 9, she'd rather vote for spicer (the person chainsawing for TIP) than for TIP himself. Lolwut?
   
4. Then by ISO 11 she's outright calling TIP "prob town".
   
5. Then we get the big notfight between Amrun and TIP. This is only really interesting because in ISO 14 she says "I have you as a slight town lean despite of it, not because of it" - why? Where is the townread coming from??
   
6. But it doesn't last. Darox votes TIP, Amrun squees, and revotes TIP (ISO 16). Then seems to think he might be a Jester or something, but hey, he needs to go either way, right? This actually works regardless of Amrun's alignment, so nulltell from here on out. She also jumps ship to spicer first chance she gets.
   
7. ISO 23, the famous "Flay... I'm
   blushing
   so angry that I have a scumread on you but you're buddying me!" post. Do I have that about right, Amrun-from-the-future?
   
8. I'm just going to leave this here.

   Because you're basically posting everything I want to, about half an hour earlier.

   Oh. That's always fun.

   Clearly the words of a fearless scumhunter. Oh no wait, you wanted to live N1, didn't you? Why is that?
   
9. All through to ISO 48, Amrun is chasing spicer but would also be "dandy" with lynching TIP. No mention of me?
   
10. ISO 62, Amrun reacts to TIP's "case" on Ingrid with a resounding meh, and continues to attack it as lazyhunting for several more posts. Despite that, she's been voting spicer (not TIP) since ISO 29.
    
11. ISO 69, further adventures of "I'd like to lynch TIP, don't get me wrong I really think he's a liability, but here are several other people I'd rather mislynch first". Although she doesn't take the bait of me misreading gorckat to, y'know, attack me or anything. Much rather go after easy bait like spicer or Kid A.
    
12. ISO 73 is the first time she mentions all of this cunning suspicion of me. After. I. Suspect. Her. There's a term for that somewhere... it's on the tip Of My Gleeful Unbounded...Tongue.
    
13. I'm sorry you drew scum when all you really wanted to do since signups was play with me, Amrun. I really do.

All of that said, I'd still rather lynch TIP today than Amrun, because the case on Amrun (such as it is) is highly TIP-dependent.

Yes, I hinted that I had a town read on Flay. I did not do it BEFORE he said he had a town read on me.

This is accurate. In fact, you said jack and shit about me before I called you a Town read. Why is that? When did you start finding me scum? Show your work.

And before you ask, My townread on you was post 142. Most of your scummy waffling happens post-149 (and post TIP's retraction of claim/ability).

[notscience]

There's a lot of noise here.

[Mr. Flay]

Ewww. Don't like the company I'm keeping on this wagon, however. UNVOTE: spicer - prob dumbtown.

VOTE: Kid A - evasive as hell, reads don't make sense, attacks Jake and I for being scummy without showing any work, misrepresents my scumread on half the game as an excuse to vote me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes, I hinted that I had a town read on Flay. I did not do it BEFORE he said he had a town read on me

hmm.. let's go to the instant replay

I never actually called flay obvtown, though I purposefully hinted I had a town read on him. I wanted to see if it would affect his behavior (it did)

What did you learn by doing that

While I was popular and town reading and agreeing with him, he thought I was obvtown.

I call foul on the play

You said you hinting at a town read on him made his behavior change to have a town read on you. But in reality he had a town read on you BEFORE you "hinted" at anything

I agree with the Kid vote and if I can't get people on Amrun I will gladly go back, but Amrun is caught in the headlights and needs rope. She can't backpedal anymore.

[Amrun]

Not even remotely what I meant. Explaining things to you is like explaining things to that brick wall over there, but I will attempt: I returned his buddying in order to see if the behavior would continue, and to see if he would increase it after I reciprocated. Both were true. I never stated a town read on him, purposefully, because I didn't want to lie.

I never lied, and I think anyone with eyes will see that, so I'm not too worried about it.

[Kid A]

Ewww. Don't like the company I'm keeping on this wagon, however. UNVOTE: spicer - prob dumbtown.

VOTE: Kid A - evasive as hell, reads don't make sense, attacks Jake and I for being scummy without showing any work, misrepresents my scumread on half the game as an excuse to vote me.

how are 4 direct quotes from you misreps lol

[Jake from State Farm]

Not even remotely what I meant. Explaining things to you is like explaining things to that brick wall over there, but I will attempt: I returned his buddying in order to see if the behavior would continue, and to see if he would increase it after I reciprocated. Both were true. I never stated a town read on him, purposefully, because I didn't want to lie.

I never lied, and I think anyone with eyes will see that, so I'm not too worried about it.

so he thought you were town so you tried to see if his read would change by implying you think he was town? that makes absolutely no sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

btw, trying to discredit me by insulting me is a pretty shitty way to play and it's really getting on my nerves. I am not an idiot, stop treating me like I am.

[Amrun]

Hey, flay, I might have misunderstood your view on TiP. See, earlier I thought you thought he was scum right around the time I did. Then, later, you seemed to be going along with gorckat's fence sitting. You openly agreed with him as he was saying it doesn't matter what alignment tip is, we should lynch him. This seemed like an odd reversal for someone who had said TiP was scum. But then when you detailed your read of him, you didn't mention this at all. Can you clarify?

P-edit: sorry if I upset you (honestly). I called you intelligent, though; I don't think you're dumb at all. I just think you're so confirmation biased from conclusions you got to while you weren't well informed that you're spewing ridiculous things. Really, it's more of a town tell than anything.

[Jake from State Farm]

I dont think its confirmation bias(though I always struggle understanding what people mean by confirmation bias despite googling every time I see it at me), at worst it's a misunderstanding and I'm wrong, but to me it doesn't look that way. If you are town, no big deal right? It's not like anyone is sheeping me(though I wish they would)

@ flay - going back a little bit, the reason gork pointed out about spicer was pretty good, you think dumb town would do that?