Death's Diner -Game Over-

[BROseidon]

I'd much prefer Zoidberg to AJ, although I'll vote AJ if I really have to.

The timing of his attack on me in the main thread being in perfect lockstep with Slandaar's attack of me in the QT was ridiculous. Like, let's look at this post:

Found me some scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Dude has had his vote parked on EddieFenix for ~40 pages now. His stated reasons for voting Eddie are that "he was scum with varsoon and should know better that this is not varsoon's scumgame"

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

This is a case. It does not involve interaction or engagement with me in any way. He doesn't try to discern my alignment, he's attacks me with certainty. Even the way he starts, "found me some scum," implies that this case was a sudden realization, and not one supported by any trajectory. No "I suspect you, let me ask questions," but just a "let me get you lynched now."

Right. After. Slandaar. Scumread. Me.

The fact that Amrun completely ignores this and continues to insist that Zoid is town and I am the scum despite the read materializing out of nowhere being turned into a full-push for my lynch is incredibly suspect as well.

[Aunt Jemina]

I'd be fine with one, in this instance, if she could talk about it cognizantly. And if it was legitimate meta they could find it from other games.

What do you think about the multiscum/framer shit with aj, slandaar?

This is a fair request. I will see which game best demonstrates where I am coming from.

The bit about multiscum is obsolete now that we know more about the setup, and thus is not something I am pursuing further, but the reasoning behind it if necessary has been provided already: a combination of meta, and how I saw many of my scumreads interacting. As for the part about a framer, I will reiterate once again. Either include the -type suffix I attached or drop the word framer entirely. I have made a point. Dethy is ridiculously easy to break in the town's favor, unless the scum have a way to interfere with them. This role is most likely an active one. The active role interfering with cops specifically that immediately came to mind was framer.

I am not using it to say we shouldn't trust the dethy results. I am saying we should be cautious about them and not make assumptions about the dethy results. I have seen towns lose in a dethy game where the scum had a framer and didn't think that a framer interfering was possible. Had they thought about its existence being possible, it is still possible they would have lost, but they would have been more cautious, thought things through more carefully, and been more rational in their decisions. I suppose you can say that I am arguing we shouldn't

blindly

trust the dethy results. To do so is as equally foolish as to ignore the dethy results entirely.

I'm interested in you pointing out something I've actually done this game that's scummy.

I have done so to some extent already, beyond the meta. For instance, pointing out the distinct cognitive dissonance from your Ghostly half.

[4nxi3ty]

roflcopter (1) - ArcAngel9
Zoidberg (5) - TiphaineDeath, Aunt Jemina, BROseidon, roflcopter, Titus
Baezu (2) - oriole, Zoidberg
TiphaineDeath (1) - EddieFenix
Metal Sonic (1) - elvis_knits
elvis_knits (1) - PeregrineV
BROseidon (1) - StubbsKVM
Aunt Jemina

(6)

- Baezu, Amrun, Ghostly Penguin, Xiao Long, Rift Adrift, Metal Sonic
EddieFenix (1) - Slandaar

Not Voting (0) -

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
(expired on 2013-08-09 10:28:34)

Prodding oriole

[Rift Adrift]

I'd much prefer Zoidberg to AJ, although I'll vote AJ if I really have to.

The timing of his attack on me in the main thread being in perfect lockstep with Slandaar's attack of me in the QT was ridiculous. Like, let's look at this post:

Found me some scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Dude has had his vote parked on EddieFenix for ~40 pages now. His stated reasons for voting Eddie are that "he was scum with varsoon and should know better that this is not varsoon's scumgame"

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

This is a case. It does not involve interaction or engagement with me in any way. He doesn't try to discern my alignment, he's attacks me with certainty. Even the way he starts, "found me some scum," implies that this case was a sudden realization, and not one supported by any trajectory. No "I suspect you, let me ask questions," but just a "let me get you lynched now."

Right. After. Slandaar. Scumread. Me.

The fact that Amrun completely ignores this and continues to insist that Zoid is town and I am the scum despite the read materializing out of nowhere being turned into a full-push for my lynch is incredibly suspect as well.

I am so fucking torn between these two wagons. Syr and I will discuss when he's online again.

[ArcAngel9]

I am so freaking behind with this game, never been so hectic but i dont want to play.
i ll probably endup either novote or sheep someone i feel most townie.

Slaandar, who do you think is scum?

[Amrun]

Broseidon, how can a read based on "vote parking" happen earlier than it did? That's not coming from nowhere, that's based off of your scummy play.

Just because the timing is coincidental, how does that make Zoidberg scum? In fact, if, using the premise of that argument, scum have access to the dethy qt, WHY THE FUCK would he call one of you guys out as scum knowing what you will claim? It makes no fucking sense. That argument has ALWAYS been stupid.

[Ghostly Penguin]

I'd be fine with one, in this instance, if she could talk about it cognizantly. And if it was legitimate meta they could find it from other games.

What do you think about the multiscum/framer shit with aj, slandaar?

This is a fair request. I will see which game best demonstrates where I am coming from.

The bit about multiscum is obsolete now that we know more about the setup, and thus is not something I am pursuing further, but the reasoning behind it if necessary has been provided already: a combination of meta, and how I saw many of my scumreads interacting. As for the part about a framer, I will reiterate once again. Either include the -type suffix I attached or drop the word framer entirely. I have made a point. Dethy is ridiculously easy to break in the town's favor, unless the scum have a way to interfere with them. This role is most likely an active one. The active role interfering with cops specifically that immediately came to mind was framer.

I am not using it to say we shouldn't trust the dethy results. I am saying we should be cautious about them and not make assumptions about the dethy results. I have seen towns lose in a dethy game where the scum had a framer and didn't think that a framer interfering was possible. Had they thought about its existence being possible, it is still possible they would have lost, but they would have been more cautious, thought things through more carefully, and been more rational in their decisions. I suppose you can say that I am arguing we shouldn't

blindly

trust the dethy results. To do so is as equally foolish as to ignore the dethy results entirely.

I'm interested in you pointing out something I've actually done this game that's scummy.

I have done so to some extent already, beyond the meta. For instance, pointing out the distinct cognitive dissonance from your Ghostly half.

1) Unless scum has something that completely changes a read to innocent or guilty, regardless of sanity, the second function of Dethy, finding which cops are accurate, will fire correctly majority of the time and will involve guessing who to target anyway. This is pedantic and an utter waste of mine and everyone else's time. The fact you spent a paragraph on this rather than justifying your accusations or defending yourself amazes me. It also reads of complaining of a game mechanic that isn't fair for scum, which no one complains about except scum.

2) Where's your support for that claim? Where's your support for any claim? I'd say likewise, but you've wandered around not supporting any of your claims since the game began. You post bullcrap about understanding meta without any support.

[BROseidon]

Just because the timing is coincidental, how does that make Zoidberg scum? In fact, if, using the premise of that argument, scum have access to the dethy qt, WHY THE FUCK would he call one of you guys out as scum knowing what you will claim? It makes no fucking sense. That argument has ALWAYS been stupid.

Two things:

1) Scum benefit from the QT imploding on itself. The scum in there has to die eventually, so might as well try to push as many mislynches out of it as possible.

2) I had been pushing not to claim in the QT.

And it's not that the timing was coincidental, and I expect you to be smart enough to understand that.

[BROseidon]

Actually, why the fuck are you calling the timing "coincidental" when the entire point is that THE TIMING WAS TOO PERFECT FOR IT TO HAVE BEEN A COINCIDENCE.

HOLY FUCK AMRUN. YOU CANNOT BE THIS DENSE. TITUS IS PROBABLY RIGHT.

But first we lynch Zoidberg.

[Amrun]

Coincidental should have been in quotes. It was sarcastic.

[BROseidon]

So you are saying that you do not find it suspect whatsoever that Zoidberg's attack was so perfectly timed.

You have got to be shitting me.

[Amrun]

So you are saying that you do not find it suspect whatsoever that Zoidberg's attack was so perfectly timed.

You have got to be shitting me.

If you flipped town, it would bear looking at. It's certainly not worth overturning my organic reads for a tinfoil hat conspiracy that I think would be supremely suboptimal play for scum anyway.

[BROseidon]

IT'S SUBOPTIMAL PLAY FOR TOWN TO LYNCH WITHIN THE DETHY GROUP.

WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU ARE TOWN IF YOU ARE PUSHING FOR SUBOPTIMAL TOWN PLAY?

[Ghostly Penguin]

What nonsensical reads?

Framer is whatever I could see town speculating on it.

Slandaar, AJ has been using the argument, "so and so is town/scum because I have meta that says so" since her first post in this game.

Which, I suppose would be fine if she could continue that thought with, "where they acted in this way, and they flipped Town/Scum there."

Take for example my Metal Sonic read. If I wasn't distinctly paranoid due to the fact that I have a Dethy group and I've already PoEd both you and Rofl as Town; I've been comfortable with Sonic's stuttering, nonsensical play because it matches his behavior in Xenoblade, and he flipped Town here. He posted mostly one liners, and went after TD without much support (which, in his defense, TD WAS scum that game).

Generally, Amrun reads the same way she's read in every game I've played where she's Town, including Pet Rescue and Harry Potter. Shortish bursts of general content, argumentative stances, even to the point where she's almost being directly obstinate.

AJ has even tried to cite games, but she can't cite specific behaviors for her reads, knowing that very few people, already in a Large, will probably not read the entire game. There's also the argument that reading the game, in my opinion, is not the same meta experience than experiencing it, but your mileage may vary on this.

[Amrun]

IT'S SUBOPTIMAL PLAY FOR TOWN TO LYNCH WITHIN THE DETHY GROUP.

WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU ARE TOWN IF YOU ARE PUSHING FOR SUBOPTIMAL TOWN PLAY?

I'm not. Be moar focused in yourself, self-preservationist scum.

[Baezu]

I'd much prefer Zoidberg to AJ, although I'll vote AJ if I really have to.

The timing of his attack on me in the main thread being in perfect lockstep with Slandaar's attack of me in the QT was ridiculous. Like, let's look at this post:

Found me some scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Dude has had his vote parked on EddieFenix for ~40 pages now. His stated reasons for voting Eddie are that "he was scum with varsoon and should know better that this is not varsoon's scumgame"

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

This is a case. It does not involve interaction or engagement with me in any way. He doesn't try to discern my alignment, he's attacks me with certainty. Even the way he starts, "found me some scum," implies that this case was a sudden realization, and not one supported by any trajectory. No "I suspect you, let me ask questions," but just a "let me get you lynched now."

Right. After. Slandaar. Scumread. Me.

The fact that Amrun completely ignores this and continues to insist that Zoid is town and I am the scum despite the read materializing out of nowhere being turned into a full-push for my lynch is incredibly suspect as well.

I, too, am torn now.

[TiphaineDeath]

1939, wut.... WUT?

Try and say that again, only slower...

[Amrun]

"in" is my phone's autocorrect interpretation of "on."

[Titus]

Can we, given the deadlines, limit votes to the current major wagons? Those who aren't on a major wagon, get on one, unless that would hammer.

[TiphaineDeath]

That is not what I was stuttering about......

[PeregrineV]

Titus, 4 cops of unknown sanities (ie, one is paranoid and one is naive, which are functionally useless), as scum (sans an SK or multiball shenanigans) start out the game either with one of them knowing who the 4 are or, more likely because having pregame chat is standard, they already know who the cops are.

pedit: An insane cop is just as useful as a sane cop once he knows his sanity.

All the cops investigate themselves tonight. That will tell most of them which they are.

[PeregrineV]

Rift: He means that scum knows who he is in the group. It's functionally a side-game of Dethy.

And MS pming the mod to ask him isn't much town cred when the first thing I said in the QT was bitching about being in a side-game of Dethy because I hate Dethy.

What is Dethy?

[Titus]

Rift: He means that scum knows who he is in the group. It's functionally a side-game of Dethy.

And MS pming the mod to ask him isn't much town cred when the first thing I said in the QT was bitching about being in a side-game of Dethy because I hate Dethy.

What is Dethy?

A dethy is where multiple players are in a separate quicktopic and one is scum. In this case, we have 5 "cops" but one is actually a scum.

[BROseidon]

No, Dethy is a mafia variant with 4 cops (one of each sanity) and 1 scum. We have a side-game of it this game.

Which is dumb.

>:C

[BROseidon]

Titus, 4 cops of unknown sanities (ie, one is paranoid and one is naive, which are functionally useless), as scum (sans an SK or multiball shenanigans) start out the game either with one of them knowing who the 4 are or, more likely because having pregame chat is standard, they already know who the cops are.

pedit: An insane cop is just as useful as a sane cop once he knows his sanity.

All the cops investigate themselves tonight. That will tell most of them which they are.

This is a horrible idea.