Micro 213 - Scumhunter's Speed [GAME OVER]

[JKMatthews]

VOTE: Bertkerberos
It's the ciiiiiircle of voooootes

[JKMatthews]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fifty Ways
Forcing it wayyyyy too much for my liking.

Bert is the towniest thing since towned bread.

[JKMatthews]

So apparently there's a page 2!
Fifty Ways isn't great, Bert's still town, but there's this:

ITs a random vote.

im not srs brah.

however, im shifting gears...

VOTE: mak

This is another random vote but its kinda srs. I just... dont like his first post.

gut.

"This is a serious vote but also I want to be able to flake out on it if questioned"
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kcdaspot

[JKMatthews]

nope.

there isnt enough info for me to say

"FUK U YOURE DED LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH"

tbh i dont know whos SUPERTOWN either

theres only 2 fukkin pages to this game.

so fuk u

What the shit? Are you like 14?
Insane overreaction, my vote seems pretty good...

[JKMatthews]

Shit guys, sorry. Weekend got way bigger than expected. My head's throbbing and I need to post in a bunch of games, but for now I'll
VOTE: Bert

More depth when I find time at work tomorrow (in 14ish hours), but generally he/she/it/they seem(s) pretty happy to sow seeds of doubt and vote pretty chaotically without committing to much.

Post 95 has 3 people as scum or scummy, Sam Jackson as null, then the next post has a Sam Jackson vote...

[JKMatthews]

Need I remind you that we are two people, and 93 was Bert (hence my signature) while 94 was Nacho (hence the "nacho says town" comment)?

"This slot is a hydra so it can be as inconsistent as it wants" doesn't work as a response for me...

[JKMatthews]

Rereading now so I can lay my thoughts out properly... lots of games starting at the same time makes me scattered...

[JKMatthews]

Ok, my thoughts on the game as a whole so far:
The Bert/Lucky/Fifty interaction during the transition out of RVS is just bizarre. There's lots of subtle accusation/defending all around the triangle, but I can really figure out any motivations one way or another there. In a vacuum Bert's reactions seem the most natural, and Fifty's seem the most synthetic, with post-vote justification, but when trying to draw possible links/motivations that falls apart a bit. It'll definitely be worth looking back at once we've had a flip or two.

Wtf is going on?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: JK
This is exactly what scumDBK did last game.
I didn't like it then, I don't like it now.

This confuses me. Could you please explain how analysing me under somebody else’s meta makes sense…?

Post 48 one of Bert’s heads votes Samuel L Jackson as though it’s a sure thing, when there’s nothing to go on as far as I can tell. This is where my Bert read starts to waver.

I WANNA HAVE FUN, BUT THE GAME ISN'T FUNNY YET. HELP MOD PLEASE.

This is after two pages, with plenty of non-RVS activity going on. Seems like a fairly pointless post.
Then Bert’s response:

I WANNA HAVE FUN, BUT THE GAME ISN'T FUNNY YET. HELP MOD PLEASE.

sorry it's not funny yet!
do you wanna sheep me while you figure things out so this scum is a little closer to death?

I feel like Maki should’ve been called out for posting such chaff. Why wasn’t this questioned at all…?

you're keeping the vote on cuz im acting 14...

Kcdaspot is still giving me the shits, but unfortunately this line rings a bit true. I’m pretty good at confusing people who annoy me with people who I want to see lynched. It’s possible that that’s

exactly

the smokescreen scum would hide behind, but really there are better targets for my suspicion.

no, maki is just bad

Trust me, I've mislynched him before.

I

really

don’t like this. Surely everybody playing this game has mislynched somebody and been mislynched themselves… how is that an argument for not voting Maki?

damn maki
making a big deal about every word a person says is how you play the game
stop being so jittery

…coaching?

Ok, so that’s all the stuff that I think is worth quoting. My other general feelings on the game are:
I’m feeling better about Lucky since we’ve moved out of RVS – he seems to be genuinely trying to read into what’s going on in the game.
Xeg’s the towniest player in my eyes… everything he does is pretty straight down the line.

At the moment I’d most like to lynch Bert, but if we need a lynch I’d settle for Maki or Fifty Ways…

[JKMatthews]

I lack a good reason. I think any suspicion there is stale perceived scumminess coupled with tunnel vision/confirmation bias...
Care to convince me...?

P-Edit: Total WIFOM nonsense. I was talking about you coaching a specific bit of Maki's play, which happened more than 48 hours after the day started...

At most that should read "I think it's a null tell because..." Calling Maki town for it is ridiculous.

I was talking about the RVS conversation and vote seeming synthetic. And "lucky's further posting justified keeping it there" is pretty much in line with me thinking you're either tunnelling as scum or suffering from confirmation bias.

[JKMatthews]

I lack a good reason. I think any suspicion there is stale perceived scumminess coupled with tunnel vision/confirmation bias...
Care to convince me...?

See my currently three-point detailed case. Sir.

The one that was made early on and was reasonable at that point in the game, but since you've just said "oh look that fits into the case I've already made so I'll continue to only look at lucky"? Yes, that one. Hence "stale suspicion with tunnelling/confirmation bias".
Don't get me wrong, I hardly think lucky is confirmed town. I just think the extent your pushing the case is somewhere between shortsighted and scummy.

P-Edit: Total WIFOM nonsense. I was talking about you coaching a specific bit of Maki's play, which happened more than 48 hours after the day started...

all of maki's posts are jittery; don't you see?

Yes, I do see. And I'd rather people didn't point out scummy things to potential scum. Hence "coaching".

no, pretty sure it should read "I think he's not scum because..." since his play was town last game and is like his play this game. Nice try.

So you're extending "Maki is playing like Maki" to "Maki was playing like Maki one time he was town. Maki is playing like Maki this time, so he must be town". Forgive me for not getting on board.

It was designed to end RVS. I had to force it to stop bullshit circle-voting.

At the time you seemed to think it was unreasonable of me to think it was forced…

This would be a somewhat valid deduction if I didn't have a 3-point case explaining why lucky is scummy, and if you could point out that the case is substanceless.

Things with substance can still suffer from confirmation bias.

The fact of the matter is that I'd vote for someone else if lucky had done nothing else scummy from pages 2-5.

If you’re town, then there are 3 other scum in the game. You’re saying you can’t see anything else that might be worth scrutiny?

[JKMatthews]

Condescension to try to make it seem like my opinions are worth less than yours aside, let me spell out my evaluation for you, because you don't seem to be getting it:
At the point in time you made your case against Lucky, the content of the case didn't overly bother me, as it was early days so there wasn't a wealth of information to go on. However, since then, more information about everyone has come to light, but all you've done is slotted Lucky's behaviour into the points you'd already made, and not gone any further than that.
That is my evaluation of your case on its merits, including saying it had some substance but blindly sticking to it is poor play.

it's not scummy; its maki
please keep up

So you're extending "Maki is playing like Maki" to "Maki was playing like Maki one time he was town. Maki is playing like Maki this time, so he must be town". Forgive me for not getting on board.

no, I'm saying that maki plays this way as town, and is playing that way right now. Come on.

Please tell me you understand the difference between necessary and sufficient points. It's not enough to say Maki plays this way as town therefor Maki is town. You need to also be convinced, and to convince others, that Maki

doesn't play this way as scum

. At the moment your case has a point that is necessary to be able to read Maki as town, but it's not sufficient to be able to call Maki town. As such, it should be null. Please keep up.

At the time you seemed to think it was unreasonable of me to think it was forced…

No, it's unreasonable to call my case synthetic.

Firstly, at the time you said:

Explain how I am/was "forcing it" and how "forcing it" makes me scummy.

If you knew you were forcing it, why wasn't this post just the question "Explain how forcing it makes me scummy?"
Secondly, I've only ever said that at the time your case seemed synthetic. I currently think the fact that you're sticking to your case so blindly is the dodgy part.

We can only lynch one player a Day, and we only have a week to do it. I devote my time accordingly.

I'm not saying you should be voting for multiple people, but you've made your case on Lucky and have your vote there. Fine, I think it's nonsense, but whatever. It doesn't mean you can't also hunt elsewhere. You can still use your time to hunt while also advocating a Lucky lynch...

[JKMatthews]

I don't think your case is very strong based on the environment in which your making it, so I think it has little merit. Better?

[JKMatthews]

Agree to disagree then I guess.

Anybody else even slightly on your scumdar?

[JKMatthews]

Not concerned enough to completely stop looking anywhere else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you haven't actually asked him any questions. You've said "you've done these things, and I believe there's scummy motivation behind them". He's said he doesn't want to get caught up building a defense and would rather hunt, and you've repeatedly said "ANSWER ME SCUM" while not actually asking questions. It's not an ideal situation from either end, but I feel like he's left your case against him undefended rather than unanswered. Ask him some questions, and if they're ignored I might start paying more attention.

I will concede that the disappearance in general isn't great considering the timing, but I'd be hypocritical saying disappearing for the weekend was scummy...

P-Edit:
Samuel L Jackson, at the moment I'd lynch Bert, Maki, or Fifty. Funnily enough my back and forth with Fifty is actually making me think it's more a case of stubborness than scumminess though, so Bert and Maki are a higher priority. Mayyyyyyyybe Lucky depending on if anything develops between Lucky and Fifty, but it seems unlikely given the time frame.

[JKMatthews]

EXACTLY. THAT IS THE POINT OF LUCKY'S PLAN.

JK, lucky said I had won scumpoints (and additionally that no one else has), but didn't vote for me. Why do you think that is so?
Had he suddenly gotten cautious about placing votes now that it was page 2?

JK, lucky said he was ignoring me so he could focus on finding scum. What has he done that even looks like this? What has he done to help us all agree on a lynch?

These are two instances where it's easier to explain lucky's inconsistencies as lies.

How is it that you feel you can dismiss all of this as confirmation bias while agreeing that what I'm saying is substantive, and not grounded in delusion??

Why in the hell is this post directed at me? I understand your accusations. Ask lucky the questions.

I never dismissed those points as confirmation bias. I said the fact that the things lucky has done since you've just said "oh well he's only continuing to be scum" is the confirmation bias. The questions you asked are still about early-game instances.

I DON'T THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE FOR YOU TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF LUCKY. I THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE FOR YOU TO NOT BE LOOKING FOR POTENTIAL SECONDARY LYNCHES WHEN WE'RE THIS CLOSE TO THE DEADLINE AND WE ALL NEED TO AGREE ON A LYNCH.

[JKMatthews]

Please tell me you understand the difference between necessary and sufficient points. It's not enough to say Maki plays this way as town therefor Maki is town. You need to also be convinced, and to convince others, that Maki doesn't play this way as scum. At the moment your case has a point that is necessary to be able to read Maki as town, but it's not sufficient to be able to call Maki town. As such, it should be null. Please keep up.

No, characterizing something as town-maki's play implicitly excludes its opposite. At this point, all I need to convince people is that maki isn't the lynch for today.

I actually completely missed this post. The rest of the conversation about your case on lucky has evolved past this post, but as for the Maki stuff:
Your statement is only true if the case your making is "Maki plays like this

only

when he's town", but that's not what you've ever said. As far as I can tell, the case you're making is "Maki has played like this when he was town". There's a very important difference between these two.
In case you're still not getting it: "Player X makes posts in English when he's town" doesn't equate to "Player X is posting in English and so is probably town".

[JKMatthews]

Until that post, you were arguing that Maki should be read as town. What changed?

Unfortunately, you are on my list of scum suspects, so while I may not be able to provide a concise case on why I'd rather lynch my suspects, I'm hesitant to follow your charge.
You're essentially saying to me "I refuse to look at secondary targets, but you're a fool for not voting for somebody who's not in your top 3".

[JKMatthews]

Let's say that somehow it came to be that lucky couldn't possibly be lynched today. Who would you be willing to lynch to avoid us hitting deadline without having found a majority?

[JKMatthews]

I'll just let whoever's set to be lynched get lynched and start my campaign all over again, at full force, the following day again and again until one of four conditions is satisfied 1) lucky stops being scummy, 2) someone is more scummy than lucky, 3) I die, 4) he dies.

Hopefully we can deal with this within the week.

Fair enough.

[quote="In post 139, Fifty Ways"Oh, that's easy. I was simply

compelled

by the power of your totally right argument.[/quote]Funny that you're accusing Lucky of not answering your questions then you go and give sarcastic crap as an answer to a question I asked you. Either what you answered was true and you just said it sarcastically because you're full of sour grapes, or you straight-up refused to answer my question. Either way, please clarify.

I may not be able to provide a concise case on why I'd rather lynch my suspects

oh? is your analysis of the most scummy posts of last six pages so sophisticated that it can't fit in a post?

Seriously, what's with the tone? Saying I can't concisely say it means that I'm struggling to put it into words well, not that I think that I'm "so sophisticated". That's such a bizarre reaction...

[JKMatthews]

Ouch, that was a disaster. Let's try again.

I'll just let whoever's set to be lynched get lynched and start my campaign all over again, at full force, the following day again and again until one of four conditions is satisfied 1) lucky stops being scummy, 2) someone is more scummy than lucky, 3) I die, 4) he dies.

Hopefully we can deal with this within the week.

Fair enough.

Oh, that's easy. I was simply

compelled

by the power of your totally right argument.

Funny that you're accusing Lucky of not answering your questions then you go and give sarcastic crap as an answer to a question I asked you. Either what you answered was true and you just said it sarcastically because you're full of sour grapes, or you straight-up refused to answer my question. Either way, please clarify.

I may not be able to provide a concise case on why I'd rather lynch my suspects

oh? is your analysis of the most scummy posts of last six pages so sophisticated that it can't fit in a post?

Seriously, what's with the tone? Saying I can't concisely say it means that I'm struggling to put it into words well, not that I think that I'm "so sophisticated". That's such a bizarre reaction...

[JKMatthews]

Also, surely you understand why I'm calling you stubborn? To get a lynch before deadline, we're going to have to come to an agreement on lynching somebody

who may not be everyone's first choice

. Why do you think you're exempt from this? It's incredibly anti-town to not be willing to try to get a lynch happening that you're at least happy with, even if it's not your number one preference...

[JKMatthews]

The real question, Lucky, is do you think that Fifty

should

get lynched for it? Why/why not?

[JKMatthews]

What is "this"?

[JKMatthews]

Bert, can you explain your 'pretty town' read on Fifty Ways for me please...

[JKMatthews]

Can you explain why lucky's suddenly third on your list first?

[JKMatthews]

Ah right, I misinterpreted what you meant. I thought you were listing your priority, and was confused. I thought it was scummy, so was holding off on following your plan until I had a better gauge on what you meant.

Bert spent a long time playing the "I'm a hydra so I can be as inconsistent as I want" card, was fairly inconsistent in scumhunting (voting for Sam Jackson for faffing around at the bottom of the page two, while reacting to Maki faffing around at the top of page three simply by saying "hey let's be friends, vote Sam"), and now making vague statements without supporting evidence...
ISO him/her/it/them - there's not a lot of actual scumhunting...

[JKMatthews]

Fifty Ways - what's with your agreeing with everyone's arguments, moving your vote and threatening everyone with being lynched, then returning to Lucky saying "no better options"?

[JKMatthews]

Fair enough. I think I may have to finally concede that there is a reasonable chance you're town, and so without that paranoia I can see a Lucky lynch being ok. I'd still rather not, but Lucky's most recent posts have been atrocious, and if it'll get us to a lynch consider me on board.

[JKMatthews]

Are you just trying to butter me up...?

[JKMatthews]

Guys, seriously, how the hell are we not lynching Maki?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maki
His responses in the last 24 hours have been just awful. Sure, it seems like there's a pretty good chance on Lucky, but Maki's 100% as far as I can tell...

[JKMatthews]

Yes... which means if lucky is scum and Maki is town, the other scum on lucky's wagon would move to Maki's wagon then kill themself off to dodge the white flag. If the lucky lynch goes through, I expect to see a town flip... so if one of the lucky wagoners is on about 5 minutes before the deadline, might I recommend a move?
OR all 3 scum are on the Maki wagon, but I just can't see Xeg as scum...
OR both wagons are on scum... which I suppose is possible...

[JKMatthews]

The answer to your question is in exactly the post you responded to. If Lucky ends up being plurality/seniority lynched, it only makes sense if he's town (or if both he and and Maki are scum) - either way the move to Maki is the right choice...

[JKMatthews]

And yeah, I guess that there being 3 scum on the Maki wagon also makes sense, but I have the luxury of knowing my alignment...

[JKMatthews]

I guess I kinda agree with your logic, except that it rides on Maki not being bleedingly obvious scum... I just can't fathom that town read...

[JKMatthews]

Bert - do you honestly not see the logic behind my assuming no move means Lucky's town?
(just to clarify - seniority breaking ties means Lucky is lynched, right? Otherwise my logic falls apart...)

[JKMatthews]

Assume there aren't all 3 scum on the Maki wagon.
Assume Maki is town.
If lucky is scum, any scum on lucky's wagon would hammer town Maki then choose themselves to be killed that night, just to avoid the scum white flag.
That hasn't happened, so one of my assumptions is wrong.
I don't believe all 3 scum are on the Maki wagon.
Therefore "Maki is town" is a wrong assumption.

Yes, they

could

both be scum, but either way Maki is the safe bet, right?

[JKMatthews]

Maki being likely town doesn't make any sense to me from Maki's behaviour, by my logic doesn't even require behavioural analysis, just analysis of our current situation...

[JKMatthews]

Ugh, that sucks. Don't know how to convince you otherwise in only 5 minutes...

[JKMatthews]

I feel like the current situation is too much of a counterargument to that. If there's

any

chance all 3 scum aren't on Maki, then it pretty much guarantees Maki is scum...

Eeep... see you all tomorrow I guess...

[JKMatthews]

Urrrghhhhhh...

Maki is town because of some interpretation of that happening that I missed, or still residual from yesterday?

[JKMatthews]

I hope "tomorrow" = real time, otherwise definitely not ok...

So Kcdaspot and Samuel are on a team... why wouldn't Samuel suicide? Surely the implication of the suicide is that scum thought Kcdaspot was their most vulnerable...?

[JKMatthews]

Phone posting and prod dodging, but 281 is hard to argue with in terms of Maki's towniness, but it annoys me that it goes against every behavioral tell that should be made. Sigh...
I'm also interested to hear why Xeg? I still don't think Sam makes sense to still be alive today. But yeah, replace out Sam, don't just ruin the game for everyone by not caring.
My head will be back in the game on Monday

[JKMatthews]

Ok, so based on the way that the votes ended up and the end of D1, I feel it's impossible Xeg and Maki are both scum (Xeg probably would've just lynched Lucky after me pushing the Maki lynch, unless he's a big gambler... and he doesn't seem them type). However, it also seems pretty unlikely they're both town. I was fairly undecided between them, but Xeg's most recent post doesn't make any sense. It really reads like he was trying to get the Maki lynch happening as he thought it would be easiest, but has given up on it and is now trying Bert, while making sure to keep justification for switching back to Maki if that picks up steam again.
UNVOTE: (can't remember if I even had a vote on today)
VOTE: Xegarus

Sorry for the low activity, weekends are always bad for me. I'm back in the game now!

[JKMatthews]

Splitting up the statement "It really reads like he was trying to get the Maki lynch happening as he thought it would be easiest, but has given up on it and is now trying Bert, while making sure to keep justification for switching back to Maki if that picks up steam again." and analysing it in pieces like you did is strawmanning. You treated a single sentence like it was making 4 different points, when it was actually only the one point.

Unvoting one of my scum reads to vote another scum read is scummy what?

"If I'm town then what I did isn't scummy" is hardly a defense. I don't believe that you unvoted one of your scum reads and voted for another, I believe you're scum.

[JKMatthews]

Sure, but you split it up into points and argue for/against them independently, when none of them actually stood on its own.

As for the rest of it... I suppose you're right, my argument does suffer confirmation bias. But when I'm in a position that implies to me that you or Maki are scum, I have the following to go on:
-I don't understand the kcdaspot death if Maki is scum
-My arguments against you which, while suffering confirmation bias, so have a perfectly logical explanation for Xeg-scum.

In this situation, why would I vote Maki?

And the bible thing, just... no. I'm atheist, but that was still rude as fuck. If I were Christian, that would be as good as a blatant insult, which I believe is against site rules...?

[JKMatthews]

Yeah, I'm in a very confused mindset, but as far as I can see it's soooo obvious that Maki is scum from the way D1 went down that scum would kill Maki. Sure we get little from kcda, but as far as I'm concerned we'd get less from Maki's death. It's super-WIFOMy, but kcda's death being seen to give less info than Maki's death doesn't equate to me, and as such I'm leaning town on Maki.

How can you think I have a sound argument if you don't get it...?
Do you understand why I feel like there's a dichotomy between you and Maki?
And your vote change to Bert still confuses me. You say you think Bert is a better target, but isn't that based entirely on an associative tell between Bert and Maki? I mean, if you're the town in this situation I'm inclined to agree that we probably just lynch Maki and Bert for the win, but I'm still leaning on you as the scum in this situation for the moment...

And yeah, sorry for turning that into a religion discussion when it really shouldn't have been.

[JKMatthews]

Maki L-1ing without making sure it was clear, and seemingly opportunistically?
Pressuring Psyche to lynch with the threat of being read as scum?
Bert/Maki is seeming much more likely to me.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maki
Of the pair, I think Maki's more likely overall, and really Bert is just an associative tell linked to Maki, so Maki gets the vote!

[JKMatthews]

How can you discount the posts below from Psyche on D1, with regard to ultimatums/threats, and then decide to go after ME for a threat. Hypocrite

Do you remember how I engaged Psyche about that and after a lot of deliberation decided I didn't think it was scummy? Also I think you mean "inconsistent" rather than "hypocrite"... but even still it's not inconsistent...
Also you definitely seem to be bussing Maki... but that's possibly just confirmation bias creeping up on me again...

[JKMatthews]

Maki L-1ing without making sure it was clear, and seemingly opportunistically?
Pressuring Psyche to lynch with the threat of being read as scum?
Bert/Maki is seeming much more likely to me.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maki
Of the pair, I think Maki's more likely overall, and really Bert is just an associative tell linked to Maki, so Maki gets the vote!

I was not being facetious when I called the exclamation point at the end of this post weird. Can you, er, account for it?

Sorry, forgot you commented on that. I can't really, no... Not sure what you're expecting here. My writing style is affected by my mood a lot, I guess?

I think Maki's giving up really only solidifies the scum read, I really can't understand town just saying "screw it" and not participating anymore.
Also, if (when, really) Maki flips scum then Bert looks incredibly likely, and if Maki's somehow town then Xeg is almost 100%, so a Maki lynch is great either way.

The level which Fifty/Psyche has been engaging has given me a town read almost all game (since I decided he was town mid-D1), can you explain the scumread read to me, Bert? I'm not seeing it, and it feels like you're setting up some lynches to go after over the next few days if you have to bus Maki today...

[JKMatthews]

That mindset just implies the only part of the game is defending yourself... which is more true for scum than town, hence the suspicion.

You're not even the leading wagon, so it just seems like an AtE...

[JKMatthews]

Lucky did this Day 1.

Yeah, I know. And it was suspicious then. "Not understand" doesn't equate to "doesn't happen", just "it seems more likely to come from scum".

Please explain what makes you think this or generalize like this.

Using this as ammunition for a case... really??

It's not really a generalisation, I'm referring to specifically this situation. Perhaps "defending yourself" is a bad choice of words... more "not being seen as scum"...
Let's say townMaki is constantly being read as scum. "Giving up" on making a point, when his top suspect (Xeg) is at L-1, doesn't make sense. Comments like "well if you think I'm scum, vote me" or "do you disagree with my argument or just think I'm scum?" and such make sense, but I don't understand why townMaki would essentially say "I'm making valid points but some people think I'm scummy, so I give up".

And it's not really ammunition for a case. I already suspect it's either Xeg/? or Bert/Maki, so it's more just confidence in my vote.

[JKMatthews]

I'm not saying I think he's doing it tactically, if that's what you mean. I'm saying to be viewing his current situation as hopeless, Maki's goal mustn't be getting his top scum-read lynched...

[JKMatthews]

Hmm, I see your point, but do you see mine? What you said doesn't seem to agree/disagree with my points... If Xeg is Maki's top scumread, Xeg is at L-1, and Maki is at L-2 with one of his voters about to be replaced... what exactly is inspiring him to give up if he's town and people are becoming slightly suspicious.
I would say "I give up" is more likely to be Maki employing AtE, and/or justifying not talking much, as every time he talks he attracts suspicion...

If Maki's town, who do you think scum are? (Xeg + ?)
If Xeg is town, who do you think scum are?

P-Edit: I suppose that changes things if it's true... I'd really rather have heard that from Maki than you then.

[JKMatthews]

Well we may be in trouble here. If Xeg flips town, I really don't understand how it's not Maki as scum.
While I concede Xeg mayyy be scum, it's looking much more Maki/Bert to me, and the only reason I'd consider getting behind a Xeg lynch is as a failsafe we've found the other 2 scum.
I'd join you on Bert, but I still feel like it may also be possible that Maki is scum without Bert (but not the other way around), and so if Bert were to be lynched, flips town, and you still won't lynch Maki we're in the same place...

I also don't see how Bert and Xeg could be scum together from their behaviour... mind pointing it out to me?

[JKMatthews]

Fair enough then. I think once we find one more scum the house of cards will come tumbling down... which is really why I'm hoping the Sam Jackson slot either isn't scum or becomes pretty damn active...

I feel like the only things that say Maki can be town is meta tells? And I really don't like relying on other people's meta tells...

No he hasn't, I agree. But if Bert is scummy for it, doesn't it imply that Maki would have to be his partner? Otherwise I don't understand why you find it suspicious...

[JKMatthews]

Why can't he just be opportunistic?

He took Maki off L-1 to place a single vote on you... seems reverse-opportunistic to me...

Bert, I'm interested to hear the end of your explanation...
Also the "thanks for scrutinising me, let's be friends" bit to Psyche at the end of that post is dodgy as hell...

[JKMatthews]

Bert, you could've just said "It's good to see you scrutinising us" without the "glad to have you back" bit, but I guess it's a bit more harmless than how I first read it...

Psyche, when you say "indulging you guys", isn't it just me and the no-show voting for Maki?

[JKMatthews]

Definitely will be spending my work day rereading, but I can't think of any reason not to still suspect Maki/Bert...

[JKMatthews]

This is silly. qwints had absolutely no need to do that as scum. Xeg was the leading wagon and would've been majority/plurality lynched anyway.
Those capitalising on "kill the quicklyncher" (Bert, Psyche) are now my top scum reads. I'm much more confident on Bert though... the whole "oh my reads suck, I'm not here any more" from one of the heads is far too convenient. "Oh I mislynched again, I'm not going to be here so that Nacho can just say he can't explain my actions".

[JKMatthews]

Yes, because a massive drop in critical analysis in LyLo and leaping at the obvlynch doesn't seem very townie to me.
Address my first line - why the hell would qwints do that as scum? He could've said "Oh, catching up" for a few days and watched the Xeg lynch go through anyway.

[JKMatthews]

If you'll notice I've been pretty cautious about moving forward with any lynch. >_>

Have you though? I mean, you haven't placed a vote, but it's very much been "So just when are we killing qwints?" from you as far as I can read. (until now, I guess)

Maki is still up there, and I suppose his hesitation to go for the qwints lynch could be just scum trying to make a friend. I'm really not sure, I can't decide between him and you. Pretty happy to see Bert hang though...

[JKMatthews]

That's an incredibly loaded question, because I don't know whether you're town. (P-edit: I see you've addressed this)
If I have to start from that premise though... I guess yes. Because it comes back to my question that you haven't answered: why would scum qwints feel a need to hammer there?

[JKMatthews]

And by "yes" I mean I think it could be the case. I really think qwints's quickhammer is null. Slightly scummy, but hardly proof...

Also, let's say you're town. That means there's 2 scum in {Bert, Maki, qwints}
-If qwints is scum, I think it's really unlikely Maki would go for the obvious defense as qwints's partner, because if the 3 town decided qwints had to die then Maki's jig is up. Therefore Bert is scum.
-If qwints isn't scum, then it's Bert and Maki. Therefore Bert is scum.
-If you are in fact scum, it seems likely that Bert is your partner from the general flow of the game, and today specifically. Therefore Bert is scum.

The first line is probably the weakest bit of reasoning, but it's gonna take some convincing to get me to vote anyone but Bert today...

P-Edit: He could've easily just said "still catching up" until day end, then MAYBE we'd be suspect today. Also, you said it was just a reaction test and now you're advocating the lynch again. Which is it?

[JKMatthews]

If qwints is scum, who do you think his partner is?
If he's town, who are scum?

[JKMatthews]

What do you agree with, though? I don't really have a solid grip on things, other than Bert = 99% scum
I feel like you've only been analysing whether or not qwints is scum today, rather than the game at large...

[JKMatthews]

I WANNA HAVE FUN, BUT THE GAME ISN'T FUNNY YET. HELP MOD PLEASE.

sorry it's not funny yet!
do you wanna sheep me while you figure things out so this scum is a little closer to death?

This is the only time one of Bert's interactions has struck me as abnormal, and it was quite early on. It's really stuck with me since, though.

I agree that Samuel was useless more or less, but was he scummy?

[JKMatthews]

What the hell, qwints? Get the hell rid of that vote

Bert, your argument of "the towny players being alive in lylo makes me suspicious" makes absolutely no sense in a game without NKs...

[JKMatthews]

Yeah... I wish qwints wasn't mental, because that vote lessens my resolve somewhat... but I still think it's Bert

[JKMatthews]

I was never suspicious of Samuel...
Once again, you're using logic that only analyses the immediate situation at your convenience rather than the game as a whole...

[JKMatthews]

So you don't think the post where I laid out all likely scum teams having you on them has anything to do with why I'm happy to vote you?

Also why are you celebrating Psyche's post? Pretty sure you're the one being paranoid and not scumhunting...?

P-edit: I was right!

[JKMatthews]

VOTE: Bert

[JKMatthews]

Good game, all!
That was teeennnnssseeeeee.

[JKMatthews]

I was definitely playing a terrible final day. Dunno what happened there...

Thanks, qwints!

[JKMatthews]

Geez Bert, you didn't actually play poorly. Maki and I were just able to capitalise on a dream situation.

As for the balance issue... maybe if scum get the second mislynch D2 they have to choose a townie to clear as town? Too convoluted/powerful?

P-edi: I was confused as hell about the Xeg lynch as well...