Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

PeaceBringer · Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:32 pm

In post 119, TheGarantula wrote:
In post 113, PeaceBringer wrote:
In post 100, Generic wrote:Assumption. I've played over 60 games across three different sites.

13 man game, 2 would mean scum need a minimum of 5 mislynches to win, if it was 4 mafia then they only need 3.

And I've been mafia in 3 out of the 4 completed games on MS, I think I got a grasp on how you guys split these things.
also a bit scummy. # of games played is irrevlevant. FYI I have been playing this game in one for or another far longer and far more games. Whoopie do dah day. Start trumping your history over nothing to try and give self cred...
This is silly. He was answering why he thought there were 3 scum.

In post 115, Ms Marangal wrote:Shadow, you think Garan is scum? why?
He does? And what do you think of the last two votes on you?

no it is not, too much detail about how he has "played" the game. building self cred. Too much detail and too much building of self.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:43 pm

He starts off random voting ms. Mang. Then starts generating reasons. Oh I have "this much experience" Oh "I mentored" miss mang. If you are pro-town you don't need to do any of that grabage to build cred. Heavy cred building from generic big time. Also when even questioned about his behavior possibly being similar without anyone responded he goes on a huge defense. Scum alarm bells left and right.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:48 pm

also can someone explain to me what the term "Chainsawing" is referring to me, that language is "new to me".

TheGarantula · Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:55 pm

Chainsawing is when you attack someone's attacker in order to defend them indirectly.

TheGarantula · Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Also I'm going to reread the generic vs. Marangal posts. I don't see what you guys see.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:15 pm

In post 129, TheGarantula wrote:Also I'm going to reread the generic vs. Marangal posts. I don't see what you guys see.

just read the whole game like you are just starting like I did... that is what jumped out at me.

Tammy · Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:31 pm

In post 70, Generic wrote: Liking tammy though (not in that way, I'm a married man).
Tammy, what are your early thoughts?

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

I'm looking forward to when empire gets a chance to post so I can solidify my read there, but he might be town.

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

Tammy · Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:37 pm

In post 102, Desperado wrote:Nacho and Tammy: This doesn't look like scumGeneric from Red Wedding, agree/disagree?

Agree for the most part, but since I was his partner I didn't really read all his posts. This back and forth feels a little different than the one he got into with metal sonic though.

Empire · Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:47 pm

Long day today, will catch up and post something of substance in the morning before I have to go troll Mina IRL.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #134 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:50 pm

In post 133, Empire wrote:Long day today, will catch up and post something of substance in the morning before I have to go troll Mina IRL.

ugg, I hate these type of posts...

TheGarantula · Post Post #135 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:35 pm

In post 134, PeaceBringer wrote:
In post 133, Empire wrote:Long day today, will catch up and post something of substance in the morning before I have to go troll Mina IRL.
ugg, I hate these type of posts...

I hate this type of post. :p

PeaceBringer · Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:37 pm

In post 135, TheGarantula wrote:
In post 134, PeaceBringer wrote:
In post 133, Empire wrote:Long day today, will catch up and post something of substance in the morning before I have to go troll Mina IRL.
ugg, I hate these type of posts...
I hate this type of post. :p

fair enough...

Shadoweh · Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:50 pm

You kids are so gosh darn cute. Gargant, how new to mafia are you? Questioning why Generic would think there are 3 scum makes me think you just had a few newbie games, this is correct? Rereading the post up top there, PB, I wouldn't call it building up your cred if you're answering a question asked about your experience, literally. There are quite a few of us here who have lots of experience

and are still horrible like me

.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:18 pm

In post 137, Shadoweh wrote:You kids are so gosh darn cute. Gargant, how new to mafia are you? Questioning why Generic would think there are 3 scum makes me think you just had a few newbie games, this is correct? Rereading the post up top there, PB, I wouldn't call it building up your cred if you're answering a question asked about your experience, literally. There are quite a few of us here who have lots of experience
and are still horrible like me
.

No he was not questioned on his experience, where do you get that from. He was questioned about his 3 scum assumption. He followed that with a well I played in 60 games and blah blah blah...

TheGarantula · Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:24 pm

Well, I first heard of the game in the games section of an unrelated forum (The games weren't serious. One guy got lynched because he thought it was a roleplay and said he had a gun in his waistband). Then I came here and have since played 2 newbie games and 1 micro game.

As far as Generic's game count reference goes, what you said pretty much sums up my thoughts. I also reread the argument between him and Ms Marangal again and I still don't read scummy Generic.

In post 126, PeaceBringer wrote:He starts off random voting ms. Mang. Then starts generating reasons

This seems like a misrep to me, seeing as Generic's read was in reaction to what he saw as a scummy attack from Ms Marangal.

FOS: PeaceBringer

PS: Inb4

Shadoweh · Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:29 pm

PB, let me try to explain why that would be an answer. This is a 13 player game. Anyone who has experience playing knows 10 to 3 is the expected ratio. And, to be honest, why wouldn't he want people to see him as an experienced guy they should listen to? You can say it's bragging but is it scummy?

Gargant, that sounds like the most amazing game. "I hoped that no one would notice the evil behind my intentions as I scoped them out for my next victim. Little did they know that I... wait, why are you guys lynching me, stop metagaming, you can't read my characters thoughts!"

PeaceBringer · Post Post #141 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:30 pm

In post 22, Generic wrote:

vote mara

Colo scum

Here is the 1st vote on Mara. Random, no commentary yet even on mara...
I may post blindly but not that blindly.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #142 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

In post 140, Shadoweh wrote:PB, let me try to explain why that would be an answer. This is a 13 player game. Anyone who has experience playing knows 10 to 3 is the expected ratio. And, to be honest, why wouldn't he want people to see him as an experienced guy they should listen to? You can say it's bragging but is it scummy?

Gargant, that sounds like the most amazing game. "I hoped that no one would notice the evil behind my intentions as I scoped them out for my next victim. Little did they know that I... wait, why are you guys lynching me, stop metagaming, you can't read my characters thoughts!"

so you answer that is what is expected. Not go into a soliloquy about your game experience. That is trying to garner cred and rep. Add in the "oh I mentored" mara and other such non-sense. So yes, his behavior is very scummy. Any particular reason you do not see it that way because it screamed all over the joining the game. And only a newb may not know the expected ratio and the potentials off of it. He is selling self way to hard and on day one-

TheGarantula · Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:37 pm

No it wasn't amazing; he just kept taking about his characters emotional turmoil, forgetting to mention that he had the gun because he was the cop.

P-edit: Yes, it was RVS. I don't think he planned to leave it on Ms Marangal, that's just how things worked out. There's a 1/13 chance that a given person's random vote will end up being their first solid lead.

Generic · Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:44 pm

In post 123, Shadoweh wrote:Every time you say 'him' I cry a little inside.
I don't think TheGarantula is scum. Thinking about it what I said isn't that solid a town-tell, but I don't suspect them right now.
Generic, perhaps it's because I'm biased, but I'm ignoring your arguments because I'm pretty sure they're wrong, and I'm fairly sure you're approaching this from a not-scum perspective. The problem is you're treating anyone arguing against you as scum by proxy. I don't mean to be insulting to Mara, but I don't think Mara is capable of lying as well as you're assuming she is.

I haven't been treating everyone who has argued against me as scum though. Only you and mara have I called actual suspects at this time, the rest (one other person) I have simply asked to expand on very vague sweeping statements.

Generic · Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:49 pm

It's a shame you are deciding I'm wrong without actually reading what I'm saying. Not a lot else I can say back to that.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:51 pm

In post 143, TheGarantula wrote:No it wasn't amazing; he just kept taking about his characters emotional turmoil, forgetting to mention that he had the gun because he was the cop.

P-edit: Yes, it was RVS. I don't think he planned to leave it on Ms Marangal, that's just how things worked out. There's a 1/13 chance that a given person's random vote will end up being their first solid lead.

see that is the point, he started off random. Engaged in some tit for tat with Tammy and some other stuff. Mara suddenly votes him and he gets all defensive. Another person, desporado I think, leaves a general question he gets more defensive. He starts using cred building defenses such as "I was mara's mentor" and "I played in over 60 games" real significant heightened reactions for a little bit of pressure. Sure, maybe he is always so reactive, I don't know anything about that. However, his behavior is what catches my attention. Then his OMGUS pointing of digits back to Mara based on her solitary vote and relying way to heavily on meta elements to try and make case. Cred voting, high level meta are 2 things that will get my attention quick on a day one.

PeaceBringer · Post Post #147 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:52 pm

In post 145, Generic wrote:It's a shame you are deciding I'm wrong without actually reading what I'm saying. Not a lot else I can say back to that.

who are you directing that to, as I have read and reread several of your statements. So who exactly are you directing that comment to?

Generic · Post Post #148 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:12 pm

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.

I have pointed out all her early comments were self aware and excusing herself with self meta. She had no case back on me, which people keep saying is fine in day 1 to toss out naked votes but she claimed she had reasons but wanted to see the reaction first (then claimed it wasn't a reaction test). Then when she gave a reason it was built on comments made AFTER the vote she made and has tried to establish me as scum based ONLY on coloholics games (which she has lied about) and her declaration she can always tell my scum game (which she later contradicted as saying she can't always).

So everything I have made my decision to push this case on has happened in this game and nowhere else. If that case isn't strong enough to convince you all she is one of the scum team then do be it, but only one of us has lied and attempted to use factors that cannot be easily back checked or require you to accept their opinion on how the other plays.

Pedit: it was to shadoweh who declared he hasn't read the case peacebringer.

But you keep distorting who I said things to pb, is that deliberate? I only gave my experience in mafia to explain why I can give a confident guess on mafia balances. Had I played 4 games that would be not enough to judge a balance, so it reinforced my point. Desperado, all I said to him was my other scum games for him to look at, cos trying to establish meta on one game won't be enough (bearing in mind he was being loditive about my play based in that one example, so there was no gain in giving more examples).

As for the mentor thing, I think You will find she brought it up first, which I take as an AtE. So you really need to get the right facts if you are going to try to paint me a scummy.

Ms Marangal · Post Post #149 (ISO) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:24 pm

In post 123, Shadoweh wrote:I don't mean to be insulting to Mara, but I don't think Mara is capable of lying as well as you're assuming she is.

pft, w/e. I guess I deserve this

In post 131, Tammy wrote:
In post 70, Generic wrote: Liking tammy though (not in that way, I'm a married man).
Tammy, what are your early thoughts?
Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

I'm looking forward to when empire gets a chance to post so I can solidify my read there, but he might be town.

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

I'm pretty sure you're right about Shadow, and I don't think you have to worry about Empire or Peace

I will admit at this point that, my scum-read on Generic has to do with the fact that he isn't acting the way I expect him to as town, and his behavior here is very, very similar to what I've come to recognize as his Scum-behavior

although, He is selectively picking out my posts and only answering to the parts that are convenient to answer.

There were several points that he didn't respond to like, me admitting that I might not have had a legit reason to place that vote and that I admitted that the current read I have on him now is based off his response to that vote.

Instead he goes to call me a "Mind-reader or a liar" Either way, it's already grounds to shake any credibility I have against him with out addressing it directly

He also stated that I "wanted" to vote him earlier, but I didn't want to be called out for "OMGUS"

He stated that he thought that he could use our old site to explain our dynamics but, since I have beaten him to the punch even talking about the place is bull-shit.

still didn't really explain why it's bull-shit

He recently stated that I don't have a case against him when, I clearly do and admitted that I did have one in 121

He is scum, I promise you he is scum.

Peace, Generic isn't scum because of his "building up cred". He's right, I was the first to bring up our relationship, people just picked up on him mentioning about it first but, there are several other reasons for why he's scum that doesn't have to do with that