Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[PeaceBringer]

can the meta nonsense please cease and desist. I really do not care for who did what in what game. This is this game the rest is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

There is a reason to it PB.

I was accused of being scum by nacho for not immediately accepting a misrep. To my mind it was a misinterpretation which when clarified I owned up to, but the point was the reluctance to drop the misrep was scummy.

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

After all that shit it's vindicating to me that I was right and the case was baseless and a lie.

the deal is meta never has anything to do with "This game" Perhaps it gives credence to perceived tells. But saying so and so did this or that then and is similar now is really not scum hunting. You have been highly defensive and reactive. Your reactions caught my attention in reading through the game. I hate the meta BS cause it has nothing to do with THIS GAME by and large. deal with this game and what is happening. Back and forth on "metanonsense" just really is one's word vs another and rather easy to twist and manipulate by and large. Sure, I have used some meta in past both ways, but not like goes on here and not really used to the he did this in whatever game as each game is treated as a new game. We all generally been playing together for long time as well so there is no need for meta stuff either.

[Tammy]

Gosh Tammy, you're being so paranoid about what others think of you, or rather what others "should" think of you

I'm not. Empire's arguing that I should be townreading him because I know him while at the same time questioning me and my alignment which should be clear to him. He's literally going "You should know how to read me how dare you question my alignment, you're off the force" while at the same time going "I'm not really confident in my read on you...you might be town but let's ignore every single other thing and ask you a question about Bert and then go AHA why didn't you pick up on this thing you should have picked up on instead of go hey tammy what'd you think about this."

Sorry no. Either we can read each other or we can't. He can't give me the crap he gave me last night for telling him that I was feeling weird about him, in that he gave me a hard time for not hard town reading him then, and then come in today and go "yeah I'm not sure about you". He either understands that we're nervous about each other or he understands that we're both being ridiculous because if we are both town that should be obvious to each other. Last night I exhibited that understanding; I thought I was being ridiculous and then he came out with what he came out with today.

And I really need to get to work.

[Bert]

You were pretty much a universal townread in 501 for most players for most of the game.

Heck, you just said the current Paragon had you as town throughout most of the game. That should say something about your scumgame.

Anyhow, do you think Empire is town or not

Y/N

because all of this seems wishy-washy with how you are still feeling each other out

or is this still all a work in progress?



Bert is amused but confuzzled

[PeaceBringer]

unvote,

crawling in a corner... someone let me know when the metanonsense stops and give me a kick

Oh shush

OK, Bert's first scumread for the game. Wow Bert why are you so slow. OK I did not like Peacebringer but I couldn't point my finger on why.

Anywho...

we look to be getting a good dual run up now with generic and gaiden...
welcome bert...

You keep giving us recaps and not really adding anything new.

I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

I agree. Don't really think he needs to claim though.

Then you agree with what other people are saying.

also super defensive over a post that is fishing... yup, comfortable wtih the generic vote.

Your vote has been parked on Generic pretty much for the entire duration of the game. I asked Nacho this, and now I'm asking you - where's the oomph or gumption behind your votes or play in this game so far... You're just taking a seat in the corner and watching all this meta stuff play out, and then you complain about "OH MY GOD IM GONNA COME BACK WHEN THIS IS ALL OVER"

Meta's part of the game. Deal with it.

I've been searching this game for scumreads over the past day or so, and I'm leaning scum on you. Gut doesn't like you; your posts don't really convince my brain otherwise. I've been searching for some semblance of content or scumhunting in your play. I don't see it. I also upon several re-reads/skims didn't remember a thing about you other than not liking you. That is a problem. Let's get you talking.

VOTE: Peacebringer

Bert, I come from another place and another style of play. I left mafiascum in 2006. I do not play mafiascum style. What you saw with generic is my style of play. I will pick up on reactions and can lock in. I watch and observe a lot. It is what I do. I locked in on generic in reading the game from day 1 and he stood out to me. Nothing else has as of yet. I could never do some of the stuff others do as my brain does not work that way. Where I play, day one is largely schtick, gets a couple of runups. Make a decision on who to lynch and move on with ore information. My reaction for generic was really overly strong one for me as well on a day one. But if you run me up for playing differently, so be it. It is what it is. I am going to try real hard to ride through rough spots and my reactions. Sometimes though I just post what I think (See my title, that hasn't changed any, I am who I am.)

[Generic]

can the meta nonsense please cease and desist. I really do not care for who did what in what game. This is this game the rest is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

There is a reason to it PB.

I was accused of being scum by nacho for not immediately accepting a misrep. To my mind it was a misinterpretation which when clarified I owned up to, but the point was the reluctance to drop the misrep was scummy.

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

After all that shit it's vindicating to me that I was right and the case was baseless and a lie.

the deal is meta never has anything to do with "This game" Perhaps it gives credence to perceived tells. But saying so and so did this or that then and is similar now is really not scum hunting. You have been highly defensive and reactive. Your reactions caught my attention in reading through the game. I hate the meta BS cause it has nothing to do with THIS GAME by and large. deal with this game and what is happening. Back and forth on "metanonsense" just really is one's word vs another and rather easy to twist and manipulate by and large. Sure, I have used some meta in past both ways, but not like goes on here and not really used to the he did this in whatever game as each game is treated as a new game. We all generally been playing together for long time as well so there is no need for meta stuff either.

But this is the problem, you are lecturing me on use of meta when I didn't use it!

You say I have been over defensive, I have been frustrated from early in this game that a player came out and assured everyone this is my scum game and that they have never been wrong when they have accused e of being scum.
I have spent the whole arguement pointing out that it was bullshit, that mara is scummy for things she did in this game and nowhere else and that she was basing her whole srguement on that initial lie.
You have t once taken her to task on it choosing to project it onto me when I haven't been using meta. And then you throw at me the fact I have been defensive as proof of me bring scummy when I have been fighting against a set of lies... That's frustration you see in that defensiveness.

But the more you misrepresent me despite the fact I keep pointing these things out to you gives me reason to be very concerned about your motives. I think I need to analyse your posts as my next task in this.

[Bert]

Bert, I come from another place and another style of play. I left mafiascum in 2006. I do not play mafiascum style. What you saw with generic is my style of play. I will pick up on reactions and can lock in. I watch and observe a lot. It is what I do. I locked in on generic in reading the game from day 1 and he stood out to me. Nothing else has as of yet. I could never do some of the stuff others do as my brain does not work that way. Where I play, day one is largely schtick, gets a couple of runups. Make a decision on who to lynch and move on with ore information. My reaction for generic was really overly strong one for me as well on a day one. But if you run me up for playing differently, so be it. It is what it is. I am going to try real hard to ride through rough spots and my reactions. Sometimes though I just post what I think (See my title, that hasn't changed any, I am who I am.)

But... wait a minute there...



you have tunneled generic the whole game. You have failed to mention nearly everyone else outside of the context of Generic

Who are your scumreads? (and townreads, if any, if you are willing to DIVULGE any at this time). If you aren't willing to be open about it, why conceal

[PeaceBringer]

can the meta nonsense please cease and desist. I really do not care for who did what in what game. This is this game the rest is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

There is a reason to it PB.

I was accused of being scum by nacho for not immediately accepting a misrep. To my mind it was a misinterpretation which when clarified I owned up to, but the point was the reluctance to drop the misrep was scummy.

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

After all that shit it's vindicating to me that I was right and the case was baseless and a lie.

the deal is meta never has anything to do with "This game" Perhaps it gives credence to perceived tells. But saying so and so did this or that then and is similar now is really not scum hunting. You have been highly defensive and reactive. Your reactions caught my attention in reading through the game. I hate the meta BS cause it has nothing to do with THIS GAME by and large. deal with this game and what is happening. Back and forth on "metanonsense" just really is one's word vs another and rather easy to twist and manipulate by and large. Sure, I have used some meta in past both ways, but not like goes on here and not really used to the he did this in whatever game as each game is treated as a new game. We all generally been playing together for long time as well so there is no need for meta stuff either.

But this is the problem, you are lecturing me on use of meta when I didn't use it!

You say I have been over defensive, I have been frustrated from early in this game that a player came out and assured everyone this is my scum game and that they have never been wrong when they have accused e of being scum.
I have spent the whole arguement pointing out that it was bullshit, that mara is scummy for things she did in this game and nowhere else and that she was basing her whole srguement on that initial lie.
You have t once taken her to task on it choosing to project it onto me when I haven't been using meta. And then you throw at me the fact I have been defensive as proof of me bring scummy when I have been fighting against a set of lies... That's frustration you see in that defensiveness.

But the more you misrepresent me despite the fact I keep pointing these things out to you gives me reason to be very concerned about your motives. I think I need to analyse your posts as my next task in this.

I didn't lecture you in particular about meta. I made a general reference. Mara's initial stuff read as calling a tell to me. The meta stuff is blah blah blah. I share my perspective. She comes of genuine in her suspicion to me. Could my perspective be flawed certainly. But you wrang alarm bells in my head on the naked read prior to getting role even and my role supported my read. I know sometimes I can be hard to follow, but please pay attention as you keep attending to wrong elements. I know have more information on you and not sure what to go as you claim does fit the response from a straight up perspective but I am not sold 100%. SO now am more interested in what develops and sick of hearing the meta.

[PeaceBringer]

Bert, I come from another place and another style of play. I left mafiascum in 2006. I do not play mafiascum style. What you saw with generic is my style of play. I will pick up on reactions and can lock in. I watch and observe a lot. It is what I do. I locked in on generic in reading the game from day 1 and he stood out to me. Nothing else has as of yet. I could never do some of the stuff others do as my brain does not work that way. Where I play, day one is largely schtick, gets a couple of runups. Make a decision on who to lynch and move on with ore information. My reaction for generic was really overly strong one for me as well on a day one. But if you run me up for playing differently, so be it. It is what it is. I am going to try real hard to ride through rough spots and my reactions. Sometimes though I just post what I think (See my title, that hasn't changed any, I am who I am.)

But... wait a minute there...



you have tunneled generic the whole game. You have failed to mention nearly everyone else outside of the context of Generic

Who are your scumreads? (and townreads, if any, if you are willing to DIVULGE any at this time). If you aren't willing to be open about it, why conceal

I am not concealing, it is day one, I don't have a scum read outside of the big neon sign that was pointing at generic on the naked read. I don't know anyone in this game at all. It is day one. As I said, where I play, schtick it up, run ups, get initial reactions, get run ups. Make mind what makes sense and who best to lynch and then move on. Day one sets the foundation for the rest of the game. Clearly I felt mara was genuine in her digit pointing. The rest I am sorting through as setting aside the generic reaction. The more information I get the better for me. Generic stood out like a sore thumb, thus the tunnel.

[Empire]

I get part of that. I still don't understand why you would be paranoid of me in this game, especially when the people who were *in* those games with me, and were fooled by me, aren't exhibiting that paranoia. What strikes me as odd is that you have been fooled by Nacho before but you're not exhibiting any signs of paranoia about him.

Great. I'm glad they weren't paranoid about you. But I'm not them and they're not me. And when was I fooled by Nacho? If you're talking about Yoloville, he only fooled me for one Day phase because of a lame meta read I didn't bother to double check at the time. I remember calling a CES/Nacho/Shadoweh (lol) team as early as Day 2 and I definitely remember casting the deciding vote that ultimately got him lynched over CES in Day 3. I have plenty of reasons to think he's town in this game (see my upcoming reads post for why).

I can't stop being self-absorbed; it's who I am. I didn't say that you are not allowed to be indignant. I'm saying that you can't be indignant at me for not just reading you as town while at the same time questioning me. Because you are not understanding that maybe I have the same doubts you are. You can't go "how dare you not see me as town" and then turn around and go "I'm not confident in my town read on you." That's my point. And you also don't get to tell me that MAYBE I'm asking you things to field your reactions, and then not recognize that I also asked you questions to field your reactions to sort out my read on you. I even literally said that. I told you you were feeling weird to me. After your reaction, I said that I had hoped for that type of reaction. Instead of recognizing that, you went OH MY GOD WAIT WHY AREN'T YOU BEING INDIGNANT? when I made it clear that I liked your reaction. And instead of recognizing what I said to Bert that the problem lay with me and that I was having a weird day, which I shouldn't need to explain you know that yesterday was the first real day at my new job and that I was nervous about it so me feeling weird just in life in general and it maybe bleeding into the game, should be something that you should recognize. Not only that but i've referenced how stupid my paranoia of you was in yoloville more than once, so why would I get indignant. I have no problem recognizing maybe when I'm wrong and when a product of my paranoia is me and not someone else. This is not something new and is exhibited through several games.

Me getting indignant was my knee-jerk reaction, so I'm really sorry for coming off that way. I am actually town this game and wanted to just get the super strong :goodtownfeelings: from you so we can bounce ideas off each other and stuff like we did in Castle Zar or Yoloville (well, pre-Day 4 anyway) or hell any of our games as Cerulean. And yeah, I did think the new job thing was a possible factor behind your "feeling weird" about me but it's definitely not the only thing and I wouldn't have a reason to just assume that it was.

And you're suggesting there's the possibility that I would interact with you this way if I were scum? That I would have started the game interacting with you the way I did if I were scum?

And what would you have done as scum, honestly? Do you really think you would have just had no interaction with me whatsoever given that you'd know that would be exactly the kind of thing I'm expecting? I know you think your scum game is the worst ever but it's seriously not even close to this catatonic. The reason why I picked Bert for you to wax on about was precisely because he was someone you hadn't interacted much with in the past yet still exhibited a lot of behaviors that you would read as town. In a way, I guess I wanted to take you out of your element and see how you'd react.

He either understands that we're nervous about each other or he understands that we're both being ridiculous because if we are both town that should be obvious to each other.

I understand this now and your recent posting especially makes me feel a lot better about you. Like, a lot a lot a lot. Hopefully, you feel the same way so we can just move on to phase 2.

[Ms Marangal]

Ok, have looked at this one game you based the whole arguement if being able to read me as scum on because it was a massive bug bear that when I called it bullshit you attacked me on that.

that was not my argument

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

This was.

that also takes into account of all the town-games we had together where pretty much the first person I trusted. It also takes into account how I never read you

wrongly

when you were town.

Day 1 - you are part of the wagon that votes me in as king. So clearly don't think I'm s I'm there.
Day 2 - you defend my choice of lynch even though it was a mislynch
You are reluctant to be made king/queen for day 2.
And that's it til you are killed.
Your final post after being chosen for lynch:

Amoe, you are a bloody idiot. I never take the back seat as scum. You just lost your town double voter, and person who could lynch two people as king. good luck trying to find scum, You all are going to need it

So you didn't even suspect me unless it happened on day 2 and you voted me in to choose the lynch choice that day!

So please, one last time, what examples are you basing your being right when you read me as scum that aren't a game where my win condition was to make you see me as scum.

I thought you were scum D1, and D2 and I could have sworn I stated it right after Amoe killed me though I guess I was to mad to care

but, I hid in your shadows all of D1 and 2, not because I thought you were town, but because I didn't want you killing me. I wanted you thinking that I could be a puppet which, apparently didn't work

though, To back up the fact that I

did

scum read you

I knew Generic was mafia and Even I wouldn't have listened to you Arau, you weren't making any sense. I had thought You, Gen, and Leech were apart of the team though that's what I told Iso after I died. Gen was so scummy it wasn't even funny :<

Shortly after-wards, You stated something along the lines of me not being able to be king/queen to which, I responded with something similar with what's stated above

But hey, You can ask leech to look through all the games I just linked, because those are all the games I played with you in are there

Not once, when you were town, have I read you as scum. that was the point I was trying to put across

if Leech, or Nacho finds a game where you were town and I had read you as scum, I'll rescind that part of my case however it still doesn't explain the huge amount of AtE you've spewed this game

Doesn't explain why you've made a scum-read that goes against the purple you're playing against. I would be fine with meta that meshes with what you know about me, but not against

You stated that you didn't attack Empire but you kinda did when you me, him, and Shadoweh as the scum team.

I count the Jester game because you weren't town.

as for my original vote, I did it because you ignored me

so no, it wasn't an OMGUS vote like you've been trying to paint it as.

and then, you got a whole lot scummier afterwards which is why most of my argument against you was from after the initial vote

I think nacho saw that, and voted me because I did something similar to him in a newbie game recently. That made him town

along with the fact that he can't really be scum with you

though, lets pretend that my Unvote didn't happen and that I'm still scum-reading you as strongly as I was when the game first started

Nacho, bert, I really don't like these PB votes.

[Empire]

Ok so here are the reads I've gathered up to this point. A lot of it feels like rough guesswork right now but I hope to get a better feel for the game as it goes on. I know this thing is very long, but please take the time to read it all.

Nacho's

posting in this game really feels like a far cry from games like F11 or Yoloville where he was completely cold/detached/uninterested and just went through the motions asking questions and focusing on irrelevant stuff to look busy. His entrance into the game from #16-#27 focusing on pressuring me and making me feel uncomfortable to try and get a read on me really reminds me of the approach he took with Syryana in Open 501 as town and I really like the way he moved onto Marangal right after that starting at #78 and moving onto Tammy in posts like #158, reads like he's trying to sort out players he knows well in ways that will be effective and I think he'd just generally take a far more subdued approach as scum. I need to double check the meta on this, but I think Nacho's not as inclined to make detailed town-cases such as #182 and #183, from what I know of scum-Nacho he doesn't like to limit himself by giving out an abundance of townreads like he seems to have in this game as it would limit his options for who to push. The reach out to Generic to "give him something to work with" reads extremely genuine and I just don't really imagine him saying that as scum at all. He's not pushing other Nachoscum triggers like defending weaker players for the sake of it or being lazy with his reasoning or pushing forward contrived reasoning. And finally, I really like the fact that he's actually going through the effort to look up Generic/Marangal's off-site meta -- scum usually don't like to put in huge amounts of effort into looking at other people's meta, much less off-site meta. All in all, I feel pretty good about Nacho being town and would be pretty surprised if he turned out to be scum.

I know I've written a lot about

Tammy

and my paranoia of her and whatnot, but her recent posting pretty much has me feeling way better about her slot -- she's nowhere near this explosive or cocky about her own townieness as scum. Her entrance into the game w.r.t. trying to get a read on me early and playing up how excited she was to be town is genuine given that she's been scum a lot this year both here and off-site (Tammy, since I know you'll be reading this, I just want to let you know that part of me still thinks you would have tried to interact with me in some way =P ). I also liked her bringing up Red Wedding as a meta reference point by saying that she knows the value of taking a stance as scum and that she hates being a part of fights like that when she's town. I know she's been a part of in thread drama in the past and she's aware of the debilitating effects it can have on the town so choosing to try and stop the fight rather than egg it on is a stance that she's more likely to take as town.

TheGarantula

's coming across like solid noobtown to me. I really liked #32, immediately spotting something weird in Nacho's play due to experience with him is something I think newer players are far more likely to do as town. I like how takes a bit of an against-the-grain stance in #129 in the Generic/Marangal back-and-forth by townreading Generic/scumreading Marangal yet still made the effort to try and see what everyone else was seeing, as I find newer scum players often try to take the path of least resistance when it comes to major in thread issues. I like him coming forward admitting that he has no solid reads yet in #315 as scum (especially newer scum) tend to try and fake more definitive stances because that's usually seen as the more stereotypically pro-town thing to do.

Bert's

play looks like it's still developing but what he's been posting so far looks really solid. Like I mentioned earlier, his comment in #240 about how he doesn't think he could lead on Tammy successfully reads super genuine, it's exactly the way I think a lot of more new players feel when they play interact with more experienced players but don't really like to admit (and hell, even I still feel that way about some players). His play surrounding Tammy and his paranoia of her rooted in Open 501 also reads genuine. A lot of his play revolves around feeling out people and trying to relate to them especially by linking their feelings with his own, which is an approach I think is far more likely to come from town as scum don't put emphasis on relate-ability/empathy as that's hard to fake.

Generic

is weird. While I didn't like his early posting at all in that it felt like shallow scumhunting and it seemed like he was more interested in trying to make Marangal look bad than discern her alignment, I think a large part of my issues were mostly due to site meta differences (though I still have to check this out as a little homework assignment tomorrow morning) and his emotions just seemed to get the better of him. Like I said before, #330 reads super genuine. I know from hearing about him way back that he tends to really take pride in his scum game so him saying that he's too prideful to use cheap tactics like using his personal life as a weapon checks out. This is probably a WIFOM-heavy point, but I think for a guy who really cares about his scum game, he wouldn't play so defensively (?) as scum. Interested in seeing where he goes once he starts getting back into the game with a cooler head (#379 is a decent start).

My thoughts on

Shadoweh

are here at the bottom of the post. Not much has changed in that department (except I was very tempted to leave her out of this post because I knew it would troll her).

Not really sure what Nacho/Llamarble are seeing in

Desperado

, like I mentioned before, I find his posting to be pretty decent so far. I like the way he makes the meta comparison between Generic here and in the Red Wedding at a time and him reaching out to Tammy/Nacho to see if they see what he sees. Trying to get people to work together and form town blocs early is something I don't see him doing as scum, I think he'd try to facilitate the chaos/fan the flames of paranoia. #212 is another solid post, the fact that he actually took the effort to go through the link I provided to compare Shadoweh's play there to his play here makes him more likely town I think. One final WIFOM-y point: the final bit in #378 about seeing which read to talk Tammy out of first feels way too transparent for him as scum.

Nacho summed up a lot of my reasons for reading

Marangal

as town in his #182 so I don't want to waste even more space regurgitating it but I just want to add one thing that I don't think he mentioned in that post. Marangal's another player whose paranoia of Tammy I find genuine given their history and her reaching out to me and my ability to read her in #51 is something I liked a lot.

PeaceBringer's

probably my weakest townread here but I think a lot of people's problems with him are playstyle-related and not really alignment-related. Dude just seems old school. In particular, I liked the bit in #142 where he asks Shadoweh why she isn't seeing what he's seeing, that question tends to come a lot more from townies with strong convictions than from scum (who are generally more apathetic about reads as they know those reads are fake). Also, Tammy, since I know you're going to be the only person who ever makes it this far, I don't think 1baldeagle1's replace-out is a scum tell at all; I think the guy was probably too overwhelmed or intimidated by this game.

Llamarble's

posting thus far has been really weak and the bits in #261 and #275 where he's self conscious about his posting being similar to his scum-game felt way out of character given that Llamarble seemed way cockier about his townieness in the other games of his I remember reading (and even in Yoloville when he was being wagoned). However, if there's anything I learned from Yoloville, it can take Llamarble a bit of time to get into the game so I'm willing to take a wait-and-see approach with him.

Purple's

ISO is just...super boring. So possible PoE scum candidate but nothing even remotely interesting here.

Gaiden's

pretty much the closest thing I have to a scumread here. As Desperado pointed out, #181 just feels like a softball question to ask, and the timing of it was suspicious (when the Generic wagon was gaining steam and when he was at the height of his emotional outburst) and it just reads like the question was presented to paint Generic in a negative light. I could see #188 being genuine but right now it just reads like posturing to me, especially considering he doesn't appear to have a read on Generic.

That's about everything I have right now. It took a long ass time to write all this so I'm going to bed soon and will work on the Generic meta thing as soon as I wake up (please let me know what's up with the other site meta, Nacho, I'll register and read when I have time).

[Bert]

Holy...

Wow Empire, that's the most eye-friendly wall Ive ever laid eyes on

And your thought process is so easy to follow and clear. Holy townness...

[Llamarble]

I've got friends from out of town visiting until Friday, but I'll put some time in tomorrow while they take their younger sister on college visits.
Thank you for your patience Empire <3

[TheGarantula]

I'll only be able to access from my phone until tomorrow night, but I'll try to keep up to date

[Shadoweh]

Tammy, Empire, I know you're busy fighting but you both have a town read on Bert, could you please acknowledge my case and/or deny it, I don't think what he's posted is 'solid' and PB is an easy target from the way people have been beating on his style. I also note he's taken back any bad thoughts about Empire because Empire writes like a king. I'd rather try to lynch a weirdo over wallposts anyday. Nacho already gave his opinion, but I think when people hang out too much they can get caught up in meta tells instead of plain mafia reading.

Desperado: I find townie voting blocks to be offensive in general, and frankly I'm tired of being arbitrarily cut out of them because I'm not cool enough. Did you at least formulate a read on me after those questions or are you taking T/E at their word?

[Shadoweh]

Also in general I agree with Empire's reads, Gaiden isn't comparable to Gargant on the townie scale and despite being the lead wagon no one's been arguing at him so he's kind of fallen between the cracks. It would actually be a good strategy right now to just lurk out a wagon until everyone kept jumping. I'm not as sure about Desperado either but I think that's partially because of his mix-up attacking me and I've been told I shouldn't vote with my annoyance. (And I didn't think Generic was scum to start but all well that ends well)

[Generic]

Mara, that's not what you said though. You said when you have read me scum you are right. And to claim that you read me as scum (voting me in as king?) but only said it in post game is bullshit. Everyone claims in hindsight they knew all along.

Why are you still misrepresenting the situation? You have clearly lied.

[Bert]

Tammy, Empire, I know you're busy fighting but you both have a town read on Bert, could you please acknowledge my case and/or deny it, I don't think what he's posted is 'solid' and PB is an easy target from the way people have been beating on his style. I also note he's taken back any bad thoughts about Empire because Empire writes like a king.

I'd rather try to lynch a weirdo over wallposts anyday.

Nacho already gave his opinion, but I think when people hang out too much they can get caught up in meta tells instead of plain mafia reading.

Hello

I liked Empire's post because I really like his thoughts and it reads as GENUINE AS HECK, like CAN'T BE FAKED

Also, "you would rather be trying to lynch a weirdo over wallposts?" Where does that come from, and how is this a townie mindset AT ALL? Mind explaining that to me...

If you lynch weirdos over wallposts anyday, I have a serious problem with the way you play the game.

Meta tells ARE PART of mafia reading. Your points here are sketchy at best. Nacho assuaged me about you, but heck no I do not like this post at all.

[Bert]

Nacho, bert, I really don't like these PB votes.

Why don't you like how I am bringing some attention to him/her? He has been getting away scratch-free for the majority of the game, and might as well get a better read on this guy

PB is an easy target from the way people have been beating on his style.

Also @Shadoweh: how is PB an easy target? He/she is a player who obviously has experience with mafia and has his own way of playing the game. calling him/her is not advantageous in what way, exactly? I don't recall people other than me "beating up on his style." That seems a tad far-fetched, dontcha think?

[Bert]

EBWOP: *calling out him/her

Either way, I'm gonna put my vote where my mouth is

VOTE: Shadoweh

Let's go, let's start arguing, Ms. Bert detractor

[PeaceBringer]

bert- I am a male, says so right to the left there...
I am always an easy target- always

[Bert]

Oh, the Ms. Bert Detractor is directed at Shadoweh.

Do you feel you have been an easy target this game? If so, who do you think is using you as an easy target - apart from myself? Mind giving me your perspective on that...

[PeaceBringer]

Oh, the Ms. Bert Detractor is directed at Shadoweh.

Do you feel you have been an easy target this game? If so, who do you think is using you as an easy target - apart from myself? Mind giving me your perspective on that...

people's 1st reaction to me is to call me scummy. It has been that way throughout my history. Period. I get reactions. I do things that do not make sense to others. That is without a great cultural divide as run into here. No good to get away from meta as to this game. There have been plenty of shots and some legit trying to sort out. Now you bert maybe a reaction fishing player like myself, so can understand your play and not jumping on you as scummy for it. I am going to try and look at things removing the generic reactions filter...

[PeaceBringer]

well the voting segment is crap right now to make any sense of, unfortunately generic claimed early and so easier for things to be more spread about.
I having a gut reaction to purple shoe that cannot put finger on. depends on the current gaiden runup.

[Bert]

The Purple Shoe person seems to be avoiding people who are reaching out to him/her. That's definitely leaning gut scum.

That sequence with Nacho asking him/her about not having played with him/her except on a main...

that Purple person seemed dodgy and uncomfortable with the question. and the response was.... well less than I expected. It's like he/she is avoiding interactions or something. I mean what is up with that

Gaiden on the other hand is as sure of a bet for a good D1 lynch that has a great non-zero chance of turning up scum.... escpecially after the case there is after reading the cases on him/her, but I have yet to recall hearing Nacho comment enough on the matter. I am also wondering why Nacho's vote is not there. Nacho maybe when you come back you can remind me what you think of Gaiden at THIS point in time. Not before today, not in the past, not conjecture. Opinion, today, now. I mean is Gaiden avoiding this game or what, it does not make sense

Gonna mow the lawn now brb

ALL OF YE LURKERS HAFTA GET BACK HERE NOW

Afraid of the pros here to read you??? HAVE SOME GUTS