In post 2837, Aunt Jemina wrote: In post 2666, Rift Adrift wrote:You are actually one of the enigmas of this game. Your interactions hint at knowlege and subtle alliance building. Nothing wrong with alliance building. But, I prefer to be extremely unsubtle about putting together town blocs. Maybe my scum-read of you boils down to your intentional opaqueness related to wanting to play sans meta and sans your usual persona. If that's the case, then I hope to hell I figure it out before I eventually try to get you lynched come hell or high water.
- If you really think I am scum, then build a persuasive case. If it's persuasive it will also be subtantive enough that I can address it for good or ill.
- If you think my reads are wrong, then indicate where I'm misinterpreting or missing significant stances or interactions.
Blatant town blocs are problematic. My experience with them is that they will
always
have at least one scum in them, if not multiple. Sometimes, even, the person forming said town bloc. True town blocs flow organically, forming without effort. This is how my townblocs are formed as of the present day, because when I did it the way you do it, it didn't work. My current methodology has yet to fail me. It takes much longer for the townbloc to form, but when it
does
form, it is without the influence of scum players. But this is a matter of theory discussion, best left for MD or post-game. Regardless of town or scum, we both know the other holds this belief as either alignment, and thus, debating it further is utterly pointless. (Though my way
is
the correct way.
)
They can be problematic, especially if they aren't reexamined. Town blocs that have scum among them tend to be disrupted. And it can be difficult to discern between intentional disruption/misdirection and a herd of obstreperous town cats. Over time, town cats will start to reach similar conclusions based on mounting evidence, even if there are disagreements on details.
Let me put this simply. This is the first post of yours in quite a while in which I can maybe see the town-you. I admit a lack of true familiarity with the scum-you; while I have encountered it, I am not intimately knowledgeable about it. But I
am
fairly well-exposed to your town self, and I cannot place words on it, but most of your posting simply has not seemed like it fit.
Regardless of your alignment, if you believe this, then you don't know my town game. It is variable, and I shape it around the people I find myself playing with. In this game, none of the players who become my usual stakes in the ground are playing, which has caused me to play a self-reliant and internalized game (internalized to Syr and myself), but has also caused me to look at players I wouldn't ordinarily focus a lot of attention on as some potential stakes in the ground.
And my reads - if they are accurate - have been amazing. I haven't had this clarity in an MS game this size before. Far from it.
One part of this, I imagine, is how you seem to be using meta far less than you normally do, as Sonny quite rightly points out. The Rifty Drifty I am familiar with has a trajectory that is heavily-reliant on meta. Its absence is jarring, and this translates into reads. When using meta, your reads seem to have increased accuracy. (In fact, this is what helped reverse the Bazzy read.) You really haven't been using meta in your reads at all, and if you are town, I believe this has caused the distaste in my read, and I believe it has hurt your accuracy as well.
I'm not sure what you mean by "trajectory" here. I don't think you're using it the way I do in the context of mafia.
I have used meta as much as I usually do in this game: where it has been applicable to clarify reads: Notably, Beazu, BRO and Natirasha. In the first case it was cold meta (which may be what you are specifically looking for) and in the other two cases it was experiential meta. We also hared off in the wrong direction re Slandaar in part due to meta, but also due to my missing why his trajectory on Titus changed.
I prefer experiential meta to cold meta, and I'm particularly wary of cold meta right now because of some recent games where cold meta in one case led me to a wrong conclusion (Paradox Prime, PeregrineV) and in another case due to exploring meta with a player who turned out to be scum, I was intentionally misled TWICE - once about a town player, and once about a scum player. (A Memory of Light, milkshake (town) and Iecerint (scum) at the behest of GoodCop_BadCop).
There are a couple of players that I now actually develop my reads in part by doing meta dives about other players with them and, also just seeing if they are actually willing to put the effort of meta exploration in with me. When I see what they come up with from reading some old ISOs, it helps me figure out both their alignment and how "on target" they are if they are town. In games where they play, you'll see much more emphasis on meta dives in my play.
Syr takes this level of misrepresentation about our play style as more evidence that you are scum. I'm still entertaining the possibility that your understanding of how I play could really be this superficial.
