Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[FakeGod]

qwints replaces PeaceBringer.

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.14

inte [1]: The Purple Shoe
Desperado [3]: Llamarble, Shadoweh, Nachomamma8,
The Purple Shoe [1]: Desperado
qwints [1]: TheGarantula
Shadoweh [1]: Ms Marangal
TheGarantula [2]: inte, qwints
Llamarble [1]: Bert

Not Voting [3] - Empire, Tammy, Generic

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

.

Deadline is August 30, 2013, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-08-30 13:00:00)

[qwints]

I'm here. Reading sometime.

[Tammy]

Okay so I'm not really sure what I want to do. I still have too many townreads. Ill reread through desperado again but I might sheep nacho/llamarble there just because I don't know what else to do and I don't think the shoe is going to flip scum and nobody else is suspicious of the peacebringer slot.

Llamarble is starting to hit the adorableness factor in some of his posts which I associate with him being town. Empire/nacho what are your updated reads on marble?

I don't really have much else to say.

[qwints]

Top secret technical analysis (TM) reveals:

Town:
Empire and Nacho

Prob Town:
Inte and Desparado

Prob scum: Generic, PurpleShoe

Fundamental Analysis begins now.

[FakeGod]

qwints said he doesn't need an extension.

I believe there has been enough content from all slots.

Therefore, there will be no change to the deadline.

Good luck to all.

[Llamarble]

Darn it qwints, why'd it have to be you who replaced into the scum slot
You were really good scum last time and we only got you by PoE at the end. This was hard enough already.

Anyhow, I think (Shadoweh OR Desperado) AND Qwints AND ???


I hate to quicklynch the replacement, but that might be the right move?

[Llamarble]

Okay so I'm not really sure what I want to do. I still have too many townreads. Ill reread through desperado again but I might sheep nacho/llamarble there just because I don't know what else to do and I don't think the shoe is going to flip scum and nobody else is suspicious of the peacebringer slot.

Llamarble is starting to hit the adorableness factor in some of his posts which I associate with him being town. Empire/nacho what are your updated reads on marble?

I don't really have much else to say.

Wait you were suspicious of Peacebringer too? Maybe we can actually do that.
Also being called adorable makes me happy <3

[Ms Marangal]

Maybe it's Shadoweh Peacebringer and Nacho?

two scum in one neighborhood?

no, I doubt that and PB/Qwints/eagle/smoker are town

vote Shadoweh with me, please. I think your last couple posts started to look townish, I looked at them weirdly at first though re-thinking, it makes sense.. I think and I probably won't vote you now

and I still want to vote someone in the neighbors

[Llamarble]

From the role PM, players should quickly realize that the "Role Names" are officially given, but not the roles.
Also, name and the adjective always started out with the same letter, and no roles shared a letter.

Additionally, Mafia were not given any safe claims or a sample PM. In order to balance this, I sent out multiple versions of WinCon and switched few things here and there throughout the Town PMs.

Scum has two ways to find out names every night (Sneaky Steve + GC), and in my playtesting, they usually had the entire town roster by the beginning of night 3. (faster in this game because people claimed early on)

Role Names were loosely related to what each of the roles did.

Balancing Act

Hated Townie couldn't be voted by one of the players.
Voteloss mechanic didn't work if Hated Townie was lynched.

Those two factors moderated the roles bit more into normalcy.

Vengeful Townie + Extra Life Townie + Suicidal Townie also created some interesting balancing acts, because they had the ability to push Town into and out of MyLo situations.

Brave Bob is powerful toward the endgame, especially if Extraordinary Eli and/or Daring Drew are still alive. (because some of Eli's abilities don't involve going to the Basket Tree, it's almost impossible for scum to fakeclaim a role that fits into both Bob's and Eli's detection, and Daring Drew counts twice every time he uses his ability)

Neighbors weren't controlled by scum, but scum at least knew who GC was going to roleblock every night, and is able to make accommodations for it. (have GC spy on Quick Quinn, who just sneaks out the back door, etc.)

FakeGod is a very clever mod who puts a lot of thought into his setups; Cookie Thief Mafia was pretty awesomely designed.
Having refreshed my memory on that game I find random-neighbors somewhat less likely, though still possible.

I may move my vote pending reading the Qwints slot harder this evening and comparing him / Desperado / Shadoweh and maybe taking a look for the last scum too.

[qwints]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: The Purple Shoe

1. Hates bald eagles
2. Early town read on generic.
3. ACTIVE LURKING OMG WHY ISN'T HE DEAD YET SERIOUSLY YOU ALL SUCK FOR NOT LYNCHING THIS SOONER

[inte]

bert and nacho are not my favorites

also, so many meta arguments sucl ass

[inte]

shit i meant bert and generic, not nacho

[Empire]

Still fighting the Great Battle Against Insomnia (and still losing), but I managed enough mental capacity to be able to post stuff. Really disappointed we didn't get a deadline extension but there's nothing we can do, so whatever.

but this I don't understand so much. desperado can look town if you look at him sideways and squinty-eyed, but otherwise he's pretty much just scum. and if he's not and llamarble isn't doing amazing things by tomorrow, we can probably kill the fuck out of him without a tear lost anywhere.

I just don't see what you or Llamarble see, I really don't. I even reread Desperado's ISO just now and the only case against him I can see is "he doesn't look as town as most of the other people in this game".

What did you think about kuribo's rage in this game and the replace out. In that I'm wondering if you think it's alignment indicative, not asking to gossip :p

(Realtalk, I'd never gossip about that stuff, what Garantula did was way out of line.)

Anyway, some thoughts I jotted down about kuribo while rereading him in ISO and considering your question:
1) The rage regarding kuribo's personal life is not alignment indicative since it has nothing to do with this game, and thus, he'd be pissed regardless (I would be too).
2) The replace out could be town as town tend to usually be the ones who feel the need to jot down their final thoughts in a last ditch attempt to help the town. However, thinking about it, I've seen this from scum enough to the point where I don't consider that tell completely reliable.
3) The self meta in #868 could actually be a thing. Kuribo's a really paranoid guy, so I can imagine him always claiming a visiting role as scum due to the fear that he'll be tracked/watched/etc. I haven't gone out and checked how he interacts with his scum partners but he vaguely seems like the guy who would turbo bus his whole team at the drop of a hat.

Empire/nacho what are your updated reads on marble?

I like his recent posting but he hasn't broken the threshold of "wow, Llamarble really feels like town in this game." Not really interested in voting him today, though. I remember CES saying in some other game (Abarat?) that Llamarble's a suboptimal Day 1 lynch in that he can take a bit of time to get going and he can get a lot more readable with time.

Also, I really don't want to lynch the qwints slot.

---

@Marangal:

You said in #934 that you think there's two scum outside the Neighborhoods and one scum within them. Why do you want to lynch in the Neighborhoods when the odds of hitting scum outside of it are higher (2 in 6 vs. 1 in 7)?

[Bert]

vote Shadoweh with me, please. I think your last couple posts started to look townish, I looked at them weirdly at first though re-thinking, it makes sense.. I think and I probably won't vote you now

Nacho is weirding me out with his reluctance to vote Shadoweh, and then he says he'll back you up on Llamarble perhaps

That kind of uncertainty is kinda making my townread on him weaker recently. he needs to commit harder

UNVOTE:
VOTE: The Purple Shoe

1. Hates bald eagles
2. Early town read on generic.
3. ACTIVE LURKING OMG WHY ISN'T HE DEAD YET SERIOUSLY YOU ALL SUCK FOR NOT LYNCHING THIS SOONER

Is this a random vote or are you being serious

There's (1) lynching for being useless as either alignment and (2) lynching because you genuinely think this is an informational lynch regardless of the flip or (3) he's totes scum. Which is it to you

bert and nacho are not my favorites

also, so many meta arguments sucl ass

did you finish reading everything

does "not favorite" = "scumread"? No need to be cryptic here

Pedit: I think I prefer Shadow over marble

this isn't happening probably

although shadoweh and desperado do work better as a team.

Nacho you better get back here and explain why shadoweh and desperado work well as a team

and why is Shadoweh not happening, exactly. Gut? or what? you're not being very transparent here. I'm disappointed

[Tammy]

What did you think about kuribo's rage in this game and the replace out. In that I'm wondering if you think it's alignment indicative, not asking to gossip :p

(Realtalk, I'd never gossip about that stuff, what Garantula did was way out of line.)

Anyway, some thoughts I jotted down about kuribo while rereading him in ISO and considering your question:
1) The rage regarding kuribo's personal life is not alignment indicative since it has nothing to do with this game, and thus, he'd be pissed regardless (I would be too).
2) The replace out could be town as town tend to usually be the ones who feel the need to jot down their final thoughts in a last ditch attempt to help the town. However, thinking about it, I've seen this from scum enough to the point where I don't consider that tell completely reliable.
3) The self meta in #868 could actually be a thing. Kuribo's a really paranoid guy, so I can imagine him always claiming a visiting role as scum due to the fear that he'll be tracked/watched/etc. I haven't gone out and checked how he interacts with his scum partners but he vaguely seems like the guy who would turbo bus his whole team at the drop of a hat.
?

oh yeah, i should have filled in my question. The gar stuff I think he would have raged at regardless of alignment; i know I would too. But, what I was trying to figure out with him was the rage at the purple shoe and before. I went back and read the comments after fortnight where oversoul said he was able to figure out the rage was fake, but I still couldn't decide. I do remember in The Wire how he did fake rage to push for reactions, so I suppose that could have been going on here, but it did seem kinda over the top with the shoe.

As far as the vanilla claim, I went back to a md thread in which he said that he wouldn't fake claim as vanilla as scum because that would box him in and he couldn't maneuver around that, so I started feeling better there. But then I remembered him mentioning in a discussion thread that since his meta is not to claim vanilla as scum that he might do it the next time he drew scum and then he said he was certain that the next time he claimed vanilla that someone would pull up that thread and post to call him scum for. :/ I can't remember what thread that's in and don't have time stalking everyone to find that.

Basically, I was leaning town on him but was all kinds of concerned because I wouldn't put anything past him as scum. Though I agree with you that his replace out post where he gave his reads look townish. But I do agree that he seems to be a turbo busser; he said as much and I actually believe that much of his self meta.

[Empire]

But, what I was trying to figure out with him was the rage at the purple shoe and before. I went back and read the comments after fortnight where oversoul said he was able to figure out the rage was fake, but I still couldn't decide. I do remember in The Wire how he did fake rage to push for reactions, so I suppose that could have been going on here, but it did seem kinda over the top with the shoe.

Well, what do you think about the fact that his replace out post had him as town despite his earlier push? Do you think that read shift was more borne out of convenience/opportunism? My gut says no precisely because he replaced out (but see: "Scum Replace Outs and You").

The main reason I have him filed away right now is because of his claim and I'm still thinking about it + what my flavor means. The "I never fakeclaim VT as scum" thing is a bonus but I wouldn't really put anything past kuribo either given the crazy shit he's done in the past.

I vaguely remember the thread you're talking about and I might go mine for it later when I'm not a borderline zombie.

[Tammy]

But, what I was trying to figure out with him was the rage at the purple shoe and before. I went back and read the comments after fortnight where oversoul said he was able to figure out the rage was fake, but I still couldn't decide. I do remember in The Wire how he did fake rage to push for reactions, so I suppose that could have been going on here, but it did seem kinda over the top with the shoe.

Well, what do you think about the fact that his replace out post had him as town despite his earlier push? Do you think that read shift was more borne out of convenience/opportunism? My gut says no precisely because he replaced out (but see: "Scum Replace Outs and You").

The main reason I have him filed away right now is because of his claim and I'm still thinking about it + what my flavor means. The "I never fakeclaim VT as scum" thing is a bonus but I wouldn't really put anything past kuribo either given the crazy shit he's done in the past.

I vaguely remember the thread you're talking about and I might go mine for it later when I'm not a borderline zombie.

I completely forgot that he relented and changed his read on Shoe. I mean I can see that coming from town kuribo definitely. I can see if from scum kuribo, but I'm leaning towards it more coming from town him?

What I was mostly interested in was your take on the rage. It was something I was going to ask you about anyway as it didn't feel like the rage he had with benmage upon replacing into The Wire. And my first knee jerk reaction was the he was scum trying to mimic his rage, but then I remembered him asking in the neighborhood who he should fake rage at to try to provoke some reactions when we were all waffling about who the last scum were. So, I know he's perfectly capable at faking it for funsies to shake some trees.

Anyway, I was leaning town from the whole affair, which is just going to be my default alignment apparently this game.

Why did baldeagle come off as confused newbtown and not confused newbscum?

[Empire]

What I was mostly interested in was your take on the rage. It was something I was going to ask you about anyway as it didn't feel like the rage he had with benmage upon replacing into The Wire. And my first knee jerk reaction was the he was scum trying to mimic his rage, but then I remembered him asking in the neighborhood who he should fake rage at to try to provoke some reactions when we were all waffling about who the last scum were. So, I know he's perfectly capable at faking it for funsies to shake some trees.

I don't know, I could see him doing the whole rage thing as either alignment and I can't really read into his tone for some reason. The fact that he shifted his read on Shoe makes me think he was just trying to get a rise out of him to force content and that might make him more likely town though?

Why did baldeagle come off as confused newbtown and not confused newbscum?

He was just emphasizing that he was confused by the Neighborhood and how he had only recently started playing here and was asking us what that was all about. It's probably a stretch but I think as scum he would have just not posted or not have been trying to figure stuff out.

[qwints]

Is this a random vote or are you being serious

There's (1) lynching for being useless as either alignment and (2) lynching because you genuinely think this is an informational lynch regardless of the flip or (3) he's totes scum. Which is it to you

Serious and those aren't mutually exclusive.

[Bert]

Oh shoot, 36 hours remaining

I've become a bit detached from this game at times, but my strongest gut scumread has been Shadoweh

Vote: Shadoweh

[qwints]

Hey generic, why aren't you voting? Is it because you're scum staying under the radar?

[Ms Marangal]

@Marangal: You said in #934 that you think there's two scum outside the Neighborhoods and one scum within them. Why do you want to lynch in the Neighborhoods when the odds of hitting scum outside of it are higher (2 in 6 vs. 1 in 7)?

:/

IDK, I just like the idea of having 6 conf. town. I didn't really think much about the odds

Pedit: I think Generic is voting SHadoweh.

[Ms Marangal]

oh

you're right he isn't voting

forget I said anything

[inte]

VOTE: purple shoe