Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[xRECKONERx]

What else could you have done T3 in a UB control deck?

[dramonic]

I get that permanently exiling whatever you want is good but isn't 8 CMC... steep?

[chamber]

What else could you have done T3 in a UB control deck?

Drew cards.
Played removal spells.
Played new augur of bolas like creature (kind of like option 1).
Held up counter mana.

[xRECKONERx]

That's assuming they print cantrips.

That's assuming they have a target for removal.

Holding up counter mana is fine, but eventually, you'll have to do something to advance the game state. IE, if you counterspell their T2 play, have 3 mana up with another removal spell in hand, I see no problem in playing out the PW, letting them stick a creature, then blowing up their creature with removal later.

[chamber]

Thats... not assuming they print cantrips? cantrips aren't that good. I mean actual card advantage. I'm pretty sure if I'm in the situation you described, I'd far rather my 3 drop have been read the bones. And I'm not even sure that card is going to see wide constructed play. Your situation is just kind of idealized (you on the play, you have the ability to deal with all their threats in the right order) I mean given that situation I could play anything and win.

[InflatablePie]

I guess I'll try an 8-4...

Spoiler: welp

[chamber]

I think I'd have run the shocks and goblin diplomat over glimpse, rod of ruin, and frost breath.

[Gammagooey]

i feel like that would be pretty greedy given that he has 11 double costed blue cards in the deck

[Fate]

Which is part of my point. You're stealing nothing this turn, so you're spending a three drop and a deck slot in the hopes that you get to mill and steal a four drop on your second turn. But you could have done something else with your turn three, and then played a four drop next turn anyway. And it's unlikely that a random four from your opponents deck is going to have more synergy with your deck than the four you could have played instead.

except....

the random 4....


costs MANA? uses up an entire turn?

Like I have no idea what you're arguing... that he could eb a different card (creature) altogether???

Planeswalkers are engines. 3 mana planeswalker engines are usuallly very good. Ajani wasn't, but what engine does ajani build? None. You need to have a creature already, so he was kinda bad.



This one is a self contained engine, that if not dealt with, will provide value every turn. You can argue that the value is bad, but I think its a powerful effect in a lot of MUs

[Fate]

Didn't people say Domri was a bad PW too? "Comes down and can do nothing?"

[InflatablePie]

I think I'd have run the shocks and goblin diplomat over glimpse, rod of ruin, and frost breath.

eh, true. can always sub those in though

rod helped win me match 1 (also works with Dismiss), Frost is good against some decks (and with 3 Archaeomancers it's practically like a Limited snapcaster-deck) and I like Glimpse in some situations. I did sub glimpse out for another disperse in my last game, it's probably the weakest card I have

wish I got a blue staff but I picked something else over the one I saw pack one.

oh, btw, pack one pick one was between Colossal Whale, Opportunity, Time Ebb, Divination, and literally nothing else good in any other color. how I ended up mono-blue idk

[Sudo_Nym]

Which is part of my point. You're stealing nothing this turn, so you're spending a three drop and a deck slot in the hopes that you get to mill and steal a four drop on your second turn. But you could have done something else with your turn three, and then played a four drop next turn anyway. And it's unlikely that a random four from your opponents deck is going to have more synergy with your deck than the four you could have played instead.

except....

the random 4....


costs MANA? uses up an entire turn?

Like I have no idea what you're arguing... that he could eb a different card (creature) altogether???

Planeswalkers are engines. 3 mana planeswalker engines are usuallly very good. Ajani wasn't, but what engine does ajani build? None. You need to have a creature already, so he was kinda bad.



This one is a self contained engine, that if not dealt with, will provide value every turn. You can argue that the value is bad, but I think its a powerful effect in a lot of MUs

It's a random 4, assuming you actually get a random four. You can also get a random 3, a random 2, a random 1, or nothing at all. Against a lot of decks, nothing at all is most likely- if you've noticed, even aggro decks aren't stuffed full of creatures, from a numerical point of view. You're basically giving up everything else you could have done with three mana so that you can maybe steal a creature? And engine is a little strong- it's a card that does nothing when it comes down, maybe does something the turn after it comes down, and how many times will even have a chance to maybe do something? Your opponent isn't just going to let it sit there and accumulate counters, and it's probably going to be at low loyalty if you ever actually get the -X off.

So you're looking at spending your turn milling, maybe getting something, maybe surviving, maybe getting to cast it for free, and maybe surviving to do it more than once? And this is your engine? I suppose it could work- blue is notoriously terrible in Magic, and can't possibly do anything else worthwhile with three mana, so you might as well.

And what's the Domri Rade comment have to do with anything? "I argued about Domri Rade with other people, and they said it was terrible, but it wasn't. Therefore, a completely different card in a completely different context in a completely different context with a completely different person must also be good."

[chamber]

i feel like that would be pretty greedy given that he has 11 double costed blue cards in the deck

Eh You can still be like 11/6 and have ok mana. The biggest issue is that you still want red early for the shocks. but the cards I named are just very weak. You could cut the 2nd disperse over one of them too.

[bv310]

No, because Domri is actually useful. This guy comes down, and NEEDS an extra turn to do anything to advance You towards winning. Every other 3-mana Walker, for reference:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m14/1.jpg
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/156.jpg
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/58.jpg
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/105.jpg

Notice how every one of them, on the turn they come down, can do something to help you get closer to winning the game. Ajani is probably the least effective, since he needs you to have a creature, but his -2 can close a game on-the-spot in the right circumstances. Another thing to keep in mind is that each of these walkers has an ultimate that will likely win you the game if it resolves. Ajani makes a shitload of Cats, Domri makes every creature game-ending, Liliana takes out a big chunk of their board, and Jace mills a full third of their deck, or gives you 20 extra Snapcaster targets.

The biggest problem with Ashiok, to me, is that your deck doesn't matter. No matter what you have in your deck, you don't get to make Ashiok's +2 any better.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Pie, that's not a bad deck for M14 limited and it might work against slower decks but I can see GW, GR, or RW (basically if someone forced Slivers you're in trouble) running over you before you can do anything about it.

[chamber]

White red and Green white are like the two weakest color combinations in m14, I wouldn't worry too much about getting beared out in that deck. Maybe a reason to run an 18th land.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

White red and Green white are like the two weakest color combinations in m14, I wouldn't worry too much about getting beared out in that deck. Maybe a reason to run an 18th land.

I took a GW aggro to the finals of the 8-4 I mentioned like two pages ago, where I lost after flooding to a RW aggro deck. I find the idea that blue is obviously the best color in M14 color and that white is obviously the worst to be way overblown.

[hasdgfas]

Pie, that's not a bad deck for M14 limited and it might work against slower decks but I can see GW, GR, or RW (basically if someone forced Slivers you're in trouble) running over you before you can do anything about it.

I find that decks running anyone over almost never happens in M14.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Pie, that's not a bad deck for M14 limited and it might work against slower decks but I can see GW, GR, or RW (basically if someone forced Slivers you're in trouble) running over you before you can do anything about it.

I find that decks running anyone over almost never happens in M14.

I went 2-0, 2-0 with matches running 5-8 minutes each in the first two rounds; I was just playing what felt open but I admit to having read this article the day before; good enough to Top 8 a GP, good enough for me.

[InflatablePie]

Lost in the finals to a UB deck that took my whale ;_;

In the last game, it got a Drake. Bounced it, got Drake back, Scattered it, he Negated, I Cancelled. Next turn he threw down a Corrupt. I should have Claustrophobia'd it instead of counterspell-fighting and would have been able to leave Cancel mana up for the Corrupt the next turn. Bleh.

Did okay against a GW aggro deck actually. Last game (1-1), got down to one life, topdecked Dismiss (9 mana, zephyr on field). Played, killed his Banisher Priest, got back a messenger drake, all he had was a sliver token, then wrecked his board next turn.

[chamber]

White red and Green white are like the two weakest color combinations in m14, I wouldn't worry too much about getting beared out in that deck. Maybe a reason to run an 18th land.

I took a GW aggro to the finals of the 8-4 I mentioned like two pages ago, where I lost after flooding to a RW aggro deck. I find the idea that blue is obviously the best color in M14 color and that white is obviously the worst to be way overblown.

Limited formats are always self balancing within reason. White has the worst commons by far, but it has 1 very strong common and several very strong uncommons, so if only 1-2 people are white, they normally end up with fine decks, the reverse happens too, if 4-5 people are blue their decks will suffer. I think r/g is actually my favorite color combination accounting for how over drafted or under-drafted colors seem on modo.

[xRECKONERx]

Blue is just so goddamn strong in M14. Like, I'm rarely ever sad to get passed a blue card, unless it is the vanilla 2/1 or Tome Scour (though I did do well in a MTGO draft a few weeks back running nothing but counterspells/millstone/tome scour/Traumatize).

[InflatablePie]

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11368

interesting article involving drafting W/GW/RW in M14.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11368

interesting article involving drafting W/GW/RW in M14.

...

[Sudo_Nym]

Interesting article on drafting in M14: http://riptidelab.com/take-it-part-one/