Open 533: Pick Your Poison - The End

[beastcharizard]

VOTE: YellowKingValley

LGI!

Nic, why you no vote YKV like the rest of us cool people?

[beastcharizard]

What? I am confused with what you said NS.

I would choose IC, 1-shot cop, tracker.

IC: Isn't even a PR and they have to choose when to use it the right way.
cop: Has 1 shot which is nothing
tracker: Well I sucked at tracker so I don't like the role and it is the weaker of the remaining roles.

[beastcharizard]

The claiming thing. You said scum have 2 claims with IC but 1 without or something like that.

[beastcharizard]

Ok, you are very knolwedgeable. I actually thought you asked the question to try to bait scum into saying you were fishing for roles and then vote you for said reason.

[beastcharizard]

YKV, you are doing nothing remotely helpful. You are just sitting there mucking up the thread with dumb posts. Please stop. Also, why aren't you voting anyone?

[beastcharizard]

Come on people. It is 5 pages. Not like you are subbing into a 20 page game or something. The posts aren't even long.

[beastcharizard]

So, guys

I claim IC.

Discuss.

Hm. Reaction test, real IC (if we have one) or scum rolefishing?

Here's a fun question-

If you were scum, which 3 roles would you pick for town to have and why?

Because I feel like answering...

Probably:
2-Shot Vig - There is an extremely tiny chance that they'll hit scum on both goes. Providing they don't die too quickly, they can take out an extra townie or two for the mafia. Of course, it does come with the additional risk of killing a mafia member in the right hands, but it's a risk that I'd be willing to take.
1-Shot cop - The chances of getting scum are pretty small. You'll also have to get the town to believe you. You also have to make a good investigation and announce the results before you die.
Tracker - There are three people to choose from, when it comes to picking who should kill. The odds of the tracker tracking that person would be pretty small. They could also track the vig and possibly get them lynched. Or the cop, if the cop happens to be (extremely) unlucky.

Reasons for roles I wouldn't choose:
IC - If the scum didn't get this person before LyLo then that sucks. And anyway, it's not exactly a very useful p
Jailer - I'd find this way too powerful. They could stop a kill be either blocking somebody they find suspicious, OR going and jailing somebody who they think of as innocent. They COULD stop a vig-kill or a cop but the chances are rather small.

Here's another question-

When forced to claim, do you claim something you know is in the game to out the PR (tracker or JK) or do you claim those not in the game?

Hmm. I'd say probably those not in the game, as that would possibly lead to most roles outing to find a possible liar. Though, on the other hand, there is more of an outing chance when claiming the one in the game. There is also the risk of a lynch, but if you out the jailer then at night your scumbuddies could kill a good power role (of course, the logical thong would be to not claim jailer in the first

to the bold part:
What?! The scum already know the roles the town has so why the heck would they need to fish to find out which one the village has? You are trying to set up a lynch on ns. What about the other person who claimed IC? Why not mention them? Are they your scum scum buddy and you don't want to bus them?

VOTE: Hermy

@eagle:
Can you elaborate more please? I am very interested in what you are saying.

[beastcharizard]

Can you tell me why you are voting Banakai?

[beastcharizard]

@hot cheetos:
Scum don't need to role fish! They know the dang roles in the game. You are using horrible logic to push your "scum" reads just like Hermy! Do you read the thread because what you just did is the exact reason I voted Hermy.

Scum teams so far: Hermy/Hot cheetos/????

One more and the game is in the bag.

[beastcharizard]

@Yes:
Are those scum reads in any order? If yes then why are you not voting Nic, your top scum read and as you said in your posts obvscum?

@Yellow:
What? Can you explain your match-ups there?

[beastcharizard]

@Yes:
Are those scum reads in any order? If yes then why are you not voting Nic, your top scum read and as you said in your posts obvscum?

My vote puts someone at L-1 with 9 days left on the deadline

DP

So it is safe to assume they are in some sort of order based on your answer? I don't see the problem with someone being at L-1 as long as no one hammers.

[beastcharizard]

Is your new meta being completely useless? There was literally no point in your last two posts so you are just mucking up the thread.

VOTE: YellowKingValley

I can just feel that you are scum.

[beastcharizard]

Is your new meta being completely useless? There was literally no point in your last two posts so you are just mucking up the thread.

VOTE: YellowKingValley

I can just feel that you are scum.

Eh I guess nothing really happened accept a bunch of bickering

Anyways I have more scum reads now:

Nic cage
cheeto
and yellowkingvalley

I have found my two scum. There we go!

VOTE: beast

Oh, you have a reason why YKV is town? Please do share.

[beastcharizard]

Is your new meta being completely useless? There was literally no point in your last two posts so you are just mucking up the thread.

VOTE: YellowKingValley

I can just feel that you are scum.

This is bad.

"Oh! You posted two posts of fluff! Time for you to be lynched!"

Yeah Nic and beast are scum.

NS, I looked a little bit, but I was like eh, I still think they are scum.

Two posts of fluff? Maybe 1 post of his is a good post. Are you telling me you are town reading YKV?

[beastcharizard]

Where is the town motivation in his posting? In his supposed meta change? In declaring in game he is changing his meta? There is none what so ever. Declaring he is changing is basically saying: "I am changing meta so you can't compare how I play to other games. So if I act scummy it is my new meta and I am not actually scum."

[beastcharizard]

I have never experienced that from anyone and I find it highly suspicious.

[beastcharizard]

From my perspective there is no town motivation in it at all but a lot of scum motivation. It is an excuse for people to not be able to meta-check you or to be able to say: "Oh that isn't my meta this game so that doesn't matter."

[beastcharizard]

Scum: Hermy, YKV, Hot Cheetos
Town: NS, Eagle, BK

I am not encouraging a quick lynch at all. I only know 2 maybe 3 people who randomly hammer and none of those people are in this game. If someone randomly hammers it is like claiming scum. They are pretty much guaranteed to be lynched the following day if the flip is town and looked down upon even if the lynch is scum. The person who quick hammers is at least at a huge disadvantage for the rest of the game and there is no reason someone town would do so.

[beastcharizard]

Deadline is like 2 and a half days away.

YKV, I don't understand how the Nic wagon is a sure thing and why you are pushing it so hard, even going as far as saying they could claim a PR and you would still want them to be lynched.

Hurt: YKV

YKV's attitude is very anti-town at this point.

[beastcharizard]

Vote YKV.

Look at his play. He is condoning lynches of people even if they claim a PR. By his logic he still wants you lynched. He has been trying to dictate PR moves. Over all his play is at least anti-town but I believe it is scummy.

Unofficial VC:

NicCage: Hermy, 1baldeagle, YellowKing Vally
Beastcharizard: Egg, mnemonicdevice, notscience
Hermy: NicCage
YellowKingValley: beastcharizard
1baldeagle1: Yes Yes Yes
Banakai: HotCheetos

Not Voting: everyone else

I think this is correct.

[beastcharizard]

What is a scum block YKV? You are flailing hard.

p-edit:
Not all hydras have known heads.

[beastcharizard]

A YKV inspect makes a lot of sense. It is ironic to me though since he was dead set on your lynch despite the fact that you claimed 1-shot doc.

I went through your reads list and if you said you have inspected anyone who wasn't a scum read I wouldn't have believed you.

[beastcharizard]

YKV, I can't tell if you mean that HC and ns are fake with how they respond or if you think the interactions between HC&NC and NC&ns are fake.

[beastcharizard]

I don't like people setting up lynches or telegraphing what the PRs are going to be doing after the flip. Best case scenario we lynch nic scum, we have a jailkeep, and scum YKV is dumb and does the kill. Worse case scenario nic is town, we don't have a jailkeep and scum kill anyone.

I don't think scum would give an innocent on their own partner. YKV is innocent with any flip because there is no way scum would claim an innocent on their partner and then the partner would buss them.

Venrob, ns is town vote someone else.

VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

I don't like what you are saying and you are telling potential PRs what to do.

[beastcharizard]

@HC:
Can you explain your vote on me when in your previous post you called Venrob scum?

ETL is a good lynch for today. I don't think Nic or YKV are scum thus I don't want to lynch them. ETL is trying to direct potential town PRs which is in no way helpful.

[beastcharizard]

Scum: Hermy, YKV, Hot Cheetos

Beast, what happened to your Hermy and HC scumreads?

Nothing, I just think ETL is a much better lynch for the day. I don't like what they are attempting to do. The fact that people think Hermy is town is beyond me. It is just as dumb as people thinking ns is scum. The HC wagon that was/is forming doesn't feel right to me so I was trying to stay off of it.

[beastcharizard]

Since when is directing PRs, whether they exist or not, town? You are telling the scum exactly what you want each town PR to do. Since they know what PRs actually exist they have a far better chance at avoiding said PRs if people are discussing/telling the PRs what to do. Scum get way more out of telling PRs what to do than town does. Add in the fact that you are focusing on solely the jailkeep. It is highly scummy, suspicious, and scum motivated.

[beastcharizard]

Hermy's day one play was not good. They did that fake reason of voting because someone was role fishing thing. Someone explained how role fishing is possible but I just don't see that.

If HC isn't scum then I feel that their wagon is very much scum motivated. The whole forming of it and everything gives me the feeling that it is wrong.

@ETL:
You are telling jailkeep to jailkeep YKV no matter what if we get a Nic flip. Scum are going to push for the Nic flip so that if we have a jailkeep they are on YKV thus meaning they pretty much get a free kill which they would only need to worry about a tracker if they put one in the game. The whole situation benefits scum way to much.

[beastcharizard]

anti-town behavior when it comes from scum is scum behavior.

I didn't even remember you were in the game until you posted out of nowhere and now you are jumping on one of the two wagons that seem most likely to get support. Do you actually think I am scum or do you just want anyone besides ETL to be lynched?

[beastcharizard]

Why is YKV also not up there is towniest person since they should be confirmed town to you if NC is town?

[beastcharizard]

First, what is the logic behind getting rid of "experienced" players? Just because someone has played a long time doesn't make them some sort of mafia god that all scum must eliminate to stand a chance at winning. Heck, in one game I think my scum team kept the most "experienced" people alive and still won. Granted the game kind of died and we lurked until deadline no lynch in LYLO, but we still won.

You are using logical fallacies.

[beastcharizard]

If anyone can explain why beastcharizard HASNT been coasting, be my guest. Ns, you explain why he isnt scum here.

did you mean to say: "If anyone can explain how beastcharizard HASN'T been coasting"? I don't think I am coasting and apparently you think I should be?

[beastcharizard]

What kind of logic are you attempting to use? "No deadline extension is scum motivated!" WTF? That is strictly the mods decision on whether to extend or not.

You are pushing lynches using the most obscure logic.

[beastcharizard]

Beastcharizard I don't like for his attack on Nic Cage day 1

What attack on Nic Cage? If you could kindly quote some posts for me that would be great since I remember telling YKV he was dumb for pushing the wagon and him saying that he would lynch nic even if he claimed a PR.

[beastcharizard]

Top town read:

ns: He is being super helpful. I don't think I have ever seen him play like this before. He isn't trolling at all. I know he is known for trolling and from my experience being dumb when he is town but there is no scum motivation in his posts. He is genuinely scum hunting and asking questions. He is playing like picture perfect town in my eyes.

Top scum read:

ETL: I really don't like how they are trying to tell PRs what to do. They just seem to be trying to tell everyone what to do like they know everything in the game already. The seems to be a little aggressive when ever someone says they might be scum. They told me not to be stupid and then voted ns when he said he was scum.

[beastcharizard]

I think the reason NS hasn't been hammered yet is because all the scum is on his wagon

So you think I am town now?

Also, another theory that is going to be popular is that ns is scum and scum don't want to hammer their own teammate.

[beastcharizard]

You are missing two people's names from that post. What is your take on them being on wagons or being lynched?

[beastcharizard]

Egg, you are voting Hermy. If you would really like my lynch why are you not voting me? You are keeping your options way to open.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: egg

[beastcharizard]

When the egg wagon was a thing I didn't want to vote them. Now I do. I am fine with Hermy as well. I just know if I say that then Egg is going to push against a Hermy lynch. I am trying to lynch scum here. Egg is still a viable lynch for the day.

[beastcharizard]

I didn't think Egg was scum when their wagon was a thing. Yesterday wasn't in my range of when to compromise if that makes sense.

YKV: I am not good a LYLO, so what?

[beastcharizard]

Can we have your target?

[beastcharizard]

VOTE: Hermy

Looks like I was right D1 with them faking reasons with saying someone is role fishing.

[beastcharizard]

ns, we obviously need to vote you. Only scum would want the day to open early and you were the first to post so obviously you asked for it so you are scum. Get with the logic of this game.

What idea ns?

[beastcharizard]

ETL, I was poking fun at YKV's logic from yesterday on why ns was scum.

HC did the exact same thing that scum Hermy did in the role fishing thing. I am thinking HC could still be scum. I know you all explained it is possible to fish for who is what role but that didn't seem to be what Hermy or HC was doing.

[beastcharizard]

They did the exact same thing Hermy did which made me think they were scum. I don't think they even read the thread at that point so they wouldn't know if they were doing the same tactic. Another option is them just not giving a fuck what my opinion on them is but they haven't hinted at not caring about me.

[beastcharizard]

If it were my choice I would choose ETL. I am going away until sunday but I should be back before I get prodded. I have made a case against ETL. Not sure how good but my opinion hasn't changed really.

When I get back I can make a new/improved case.

P-edit:
If vig claimed after the JK that is potentially all 2 PRs outed. Not to mention the vig has 2 shots so if they hadn't used both they might die before they could use both their shots.

[beastcharizard]

Have you given cases on these lynches? I can't remember reading one from you. Also, it seems you want an egg lynch over a venrob lynch so shouldn't you advocate that lynch instead of sitting on the fence to two lynches at the same time?

[beastcharizard]

I have only had one run in with someone suggesting a town bloc and everyone voting together. Everyone in game hated the idea for the same reason PhD hates them. In the end it would have probably helped a lot. Only because the proposed bloc was all town. The person proposing it also said that it would help scum hunt. If you just hit consecutive town then you are likely to have scum in the block and that would greatly narrow down options.

I am not sure how it would work here but it isn't something that should be shot down automatically.

[beastcharizard]

A town bloc isn't a these people will never be lynched bloc or a ignore all scummy things you do bloc.

[beastcharizard]

And the point of that post was?

Also, are we all just sitting here waiting for Venrob to do something or what?

[beastcharizard]

@ Nic:
Or do jack shit. One of the two.

[beastcharizard]

Do you have anything new to add to your case?

[beastcharizard]

I understand his points and require no further explanation.

I'm dead tonight anyways. Just remember to lynch HC once I'm dead.

What? How are you dead tonight?

[beastcharizard]

Are you accusing me of being scum or asking the most WIFOMy question in the world? If the first one please explain.

[beastcharizard]

There is a wagon on you starting up.

[beastcharizard]

From like page 2 I had Hermy as scum. YKV and I don't mix well. He played the same way in a different game, which I was sure he was scum in too, but he turned out to be town. YKV's town frustrates me and just screams scummy to me. It still does that to me and if there wasn't a supposed innocent result on him I would think he was scum. He just frustrates me so much that I want him dead at any means. I can post the game if you want.

@ETL:
You are do nothing to stop speculation of you/Anti scum team. You are just feeding it.

[beastcharizard]

People were speculating a PhD/ETL team. Anti took PhD's spot so therefore it would now be Anti/ETL.

[beastcharizard]

First, what is the logic behind getting rid of "experienced" players? Just because someone has played a long time doesn't make them some sort of mafia god that all scum must eliminate to stand a chance at winning. Heck, in one game I think my scum team kept the most "experienced" people alive and still won. Granted the game kind of died and we lurked until deadline no lynch in LYLO, but we still won.

You are using logical fallacies.

you're talking about spyparty?

first off, we were all "experienced" and second, you "won" because of inactivity and the mod's failure to replace you and your scumbuddy (like he should have)

/end sourgrapes aside

That is a game no one wants to talk about. I was just pointing out that experience doesn't normally factor into scum kills. At least from what I have experienced. I have never been scum and them say: "So and So has been playing here for 3 years, lets kill them."

[beastcharizard]

Why does me having my own opinion make me scum? Also, how did I sabotage the Hermy wagon?

The NS wagon was obviously not going to take off and if I am so scummy why didn't I jump on said wagon when it would have been a completely acceptable move?

[beastcharizard]

Any counter wagon would have saved NS. Wagons come and go in this game and there was no way in knowing if people wouldn't follow me onto the ETL wagon. I felt more confident in an ETL lynch than I did Hermy at the time.

[beastcharizard]

Two days is plenty of time to get a different wagon going. A flash wagon to me is with in 12 hours of deadline. We were quadrople that time frame. And that is just when NS was at L-1. Pushing wagons you believe in is the point of this game.

VOTE: ETL

You are buddying way to hard right now.

I am willing to 1v1 ETL at this point. Their buddying is strong. They attempt to direct PRs. They weren't on the Hermy lynch but were on the NS wagon.

[beastcharizard]

I vote the person whom I think is the scummiest. It wasn't in compromise territory yet so I am going to try to get my strongest scum read lynched.

[beastcharizard]

I am vanilla townie. I am not a huge loss and a mislynch still means town can pull off the win.

YKV is a huge troll but for some reason he is always town. He is the first person I have ever been ok with policy lynching and that was in my first game with him.

[beastcharizard]

When Antihero joined the game and suspected me I knew I was dead. Anti, you are such a good player. I really wanted to ride ns's town read on me to victory.

I enjoyed playing with everyone.

[beastcharizard]

What is UTR type?

[beastcharizard]

I only lurked because I was afraid that ns would pin me as scum. I agree there was like no synergy between us.

[beastcharizard]

There is nothing of interest in it but I don't mind. Someone else can post it if they want.