Favorite Video Game Tournament (Pokémon Wins! + Condorcet)

[chesskid3]

Age of Empires II
Halo
Minecraft
GunZ

[PranaDevil]

My understanding (admittedly based on five minutes of google-fu) is that it is a rather faithful adaptation of the tabletop game, including a turn-based mode (in addition to the original real-time that got the developers sued). I'm inclined to say no, but I'm willing to be persuaded if someone wants to do a compare-contrast on them.

In that case you would also need to ban Warhammer Shadow Of The Horned Rat, Warhammer Dark Omen, almost any Warhammer 40k game (it's a close enough adaption in that sense). As while they aren't exactly the same as the tabletop game, they are pretty much keeping to the original basis of it, much the same as Blood Bowl does.

Sure it's relatively faithful, but in the same way the Harry Potter movies are "faithful" to the books. They keep the basics the same but there's enough different there that they are both separate entities. For instance, even with the turn based stuff in the game (which is where it's "faithful", but also the only way that's worth playing the game... Real Time sucks), you have a full league to play through, can change so many settings that the game is no longer the same as the table top game, and there's added stuff in there anyway, then there's the additional teams... totally different game, totally different feel to it as well.

It's not like we're talking Monopoly with some different options after all (although saying that I did have a strangely weird version of Monopoly on the PS2 that played nothing like the original... might have to see if I still have it somewhere as it was a good laugh, even if it was pretty terrible).

[mykonian]

urban assault
sacrifice
rome: total war
rayman
rayman: origins
AI war
battle for wesnoth
rollercoaster tycoon

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Rock Band 2
Halo 2
Halo 3
Final Fantasy X
Heroes of Might & Magic IV
Might & Magic VII
Tony La Russa Baseball II
Virtua Fighter 4
Gauntlet Dark Legacy

[Zachrulez]

Super Mario Brothers 3
Sonic and Knuckles 3
Doom
Quake 2
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy I (Playstation origins version)
Dragon Quest 3
Dragon Quest 7
Demons Souls
Dark Souls
The Last of Us
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Grant Theft Auto 5
Fallout 3
Fallout New Vegas
Chrono Trigger
Chrono Cross
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2
Dragon Age Origins
Ni No Kuni Wraith of the White Witch
Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance
The Legend of Zelda
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

[Nicodemus]

Guitar Hero
Guitar Hero II
Guitar Hero: Warriors of Rock
Rock Band 2
Rock Band 3
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Brothers
Roller Coaster Tycoon
Mario Kart 64
Tetris
Pokemon Red/Blue
Mario Tennis
Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins
Pac-Man
Minesweeper
Snake
Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Morrowind
Chrono Trigger
Skyrim
Diablo 2
Psychonauts

[quadz08]

League of Legends
FIFA (any year)
Roller Coaster Tycoon 1
Civilization IV
Civilization V

Age of Mythology
Age of Empires II
Super Smash Bros. (any)
Mario Kart (any)
Bastion

Rayman: Raving Rabbids
Metal Gear Solid 1
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Metal Gear Solid 4

Tales of Symphonia
Portal
NBA Jam
Bloons Tower Defense


YOU PEOPLE WHO AREN'T PICKING BASTION ARE MAKING ME SO SAD RIGHT NOW

[Umbrage]

Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed II
Braid
Planescape: Torment
Knights of the Old Republic
Portal 2
F.E.A.R.
Saints Row the Third
Batman: Arkham Asylum
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Team Fortress 2
Neverwinter Nights 2
Bioshock
Mark of the Ninja
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Half-Life
Mirror's Edge
Deus Ex
Star Wars: Battlefront II
Dishonored
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare

[Faraday]

Oh, I forgot battlefront 2. List edited.

[mith]

My understanding (admittedly based on five minutes of google-fu) is that it is a rather faithful adaptation of the tabletop game, including a turn-based mode (in addition to the original real-time that got the developers sued). I'm inclined to say no, but I'm willing to be persuaded if someone wants to do a compare-contrast on them.

In that case you would also need to ban Warhammer Shadow Of The Horned Rat, Warhammer Dark Omen, almost any Warhammer 40k game (it's a close enough adaption in that sense). As while they aren't exactly the same as the tabletop game, they are pretty much keeping to the original basis of it, much the same as Blood Bowl does.

Sure it's relatively faithful, but in the same way the Harry Potter movies are "faithful" to the books. They keep the basics the same but there's enough different there that they are both separate entities. For instance, even with the turn based stuff in the game (which is where it's "faithful", but also the only way that's worth playing the game... Real Time sucks), you have a full league to play through, can change so many settings that the game is no longer the same as the table top game, and there's added stuff in there anyway, then there's the additional teams... totally different game, totally different feel to it as well.

It's not like we're talking Monopoly with some different options after all (although saying that I did have a strangely weird version of Monopoly on the PS2 that played nothing like the original... might have to see if I still have it somewhere as it was a good laugh, even if it was pretty terrible).

As no one has nominated any of the Warhammer games, that part is not currently an issue.

Added stuff and additional teams = expansion material, to me. I'd be like if Dominion expansions didn't exist, and then Goko came out with all these new cards - it's still Dominion.

The Real-time setting is the only reason I would consider making an exception here. Still thinking about it.

[Brandi]

But dominion is a card game and any online play of it is still just a card game?

This isn't like you have a game board and move around pieces... it's 3D models that move on their own, have lines, animations... when your team gets better their "image" evolves to show how far they've come.
Board game pieces don't physically change when you play a game. They don't talk to you.

I really don't think this game falls anywhere in line with what your rule basis is.
I mean the entire point is that board games aren't real video games, right?
But this has enough elements to make it an actual video game, where one is significantly more appealing and playable than the other.

I mean with this mindset, "games" such as "The Walking Dead" should not be included either... since they are just interactive movies, not actual video games with any real gameplay. (I'm not saying I really believe that that you shouldn't actually include it, just that if point and click adventures have less gameplay than video game versions of a board game, why would they count?)

Again, it's a video game VERSION of a boardgame, not a boardgame copy pasted to the internet to play like it's a real game.

Also, I love this game for the single-player mode. I'm not sure if you can play "single-player" in the boardgame.

"The single-player experience allows the player to manage a team throughout an entire season of Blood Bowl, through the Old World of Warhammer. The team will evolve over the course of victories, experience gained and awards won. With its immense depth, the game can almost be considered as a management game, from managing the popularity and sponsorship of players to the purchase and sale of players, as well as their aging, retirement and even death."

-internet review

[quadz08]

I haven't played either, but from the descriptions here, the comparison seems similar to Pokemon TCG vs. Pokemon Red. Same flavor, different mechanics.

[Brandi]

^That's a better comparison/explanation. I suck at explaining things.
I mean it's not like a single other person has proposed Bloodbowl: Chaos Edition.... so I don't think it'd make a list anyway, it's just the principle of the matter!

Though if SUDO got in here, I'm sure he'd suggest it.

[hitogoroshi]

Half Life 2
Bloodline Champions
Everyday Genius: Squarelogic
FTL: Faster Than Light
Mark of the Ninja

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations
Sine Mora
Sins of A Solar Empire: Rebellion
Spectromancer
Spelunky (HD)

Unreal Tournament 3
The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
XCOM: Enemy Unknown (2012)
YOU DON'T KNOW JACK
League of Legends

Escape Velocity: Nova
Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup
Bastion
Warcraft III
Monster Rancher 4

Kirby Superstar Ultra
Phantom Brave
Trauma Team
Portal
Culdcept


There's my list. Some honorary mentions: Barkley: Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden: Chapter 1 of the Hoopz Barkley SaGa, The Sims 3, Legend of Mana, Rogue Legacy, Jamestown, Dungeons of Dredmor, Gunbound: World Championship and Beat Hazard all were on at one point but got cut. Risk of Rain would have made it but it feels wrong to pick a game in beta that not everyone can play yet. This was surprisingly pretty tough, and I'm still worried I missed some "obvious ones" even though I was already making some hard cuts.

[BS2000]

Super Mario World
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Super Mario RPG

Final Fantasy X
Katamari
Grand Theft Auto V
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Civilization IV

Simcity 3000
The Sims 2
Starcraft
Pokemon Red/Blue
Pokemon Black/White

Legend Of Zelda Ocarina Of Time
Legend Of Zelda Majora's Mask
Paper Mario
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4
Rollercoaster Tycoon

Final Fantasy XIII-2
Kirby Super Star
Pokemon Stadium
Earthbound
Gran Turismo IV

[Sudo_Nym]

As a person who loves Blood Bowl, I would say include it, just because the Blood Bowl game does contain things like campaign and real time that make it more than just a simple online client for the game.

Anyway, I would say:

Blood Bowl: cahos Edition
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate 2
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy X
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2
Super Mario Bros. 3

That's all off the top of my head right now; maybe more later.

[Tamuz]

Baldur's what?

[xRECKONERx]

edited to include 3 LoZ games

[mith]

But dominion is a card game and any online play of it is still just a card game?

This isn't like you have a game board and move around pieces... it's 3D models that move on their own, have lines, animations... when your team gets better their "image" evolves to show how far they've come.
Board game pieces don't physically change when you play a game. They don't talk to you.

None of this has anything to do with game-play. An animated version of Chess where the pieces move on their own and talk to you is still Chess.

I really don't think this game falls anywhere in line with what your rule basis is.
I mean the entire point is that board games aren't real video games, right?
But this has enough elements to make it an actual video game, where one is significantly more appealing and playable than the other.

The line between board games and video games is becoming increasingly blurred - that's why the line for me has more to do with where the mechanics of the game originated. We're certainly not going to set the line based on "appealing and playable" (and you're barking up the wrong tree making that sort of argument to me in particular - I happen to play a lot of board games).

I mean with this mindset, "games" such as "The Walking Dead" should not be included either... since they are just interactive movies, not actual video games with any real gameplay. (I'm not saying I really believe that that you shouldn't actually include it, just that if point and click adventures have less gameplay than video game versions of a board game, why would they count?)

Again, it's a video game VERSION of a boardgame, not a boardgame copy pasted to the internet to play like it's a real game.

I'm not making judgments on "how much" gameplay exists in a video game, either. The decision here is solely based on whether the gameplay in the video game version differs signficantly enough from the board game version

Also, I love this game for the single-player mode. I'm not sure if you can play "single-player" in the boardgame.

"The single-player experience allows the player to manage a team throughout an entire season of Blood Bowl, through the Old World of Warhammer. The team will evolve over the course of victories, experience gained and awards won. With its immense depth, the game can almost be considered as a management game, from managing the popularity and sponsorship of players to the purchase and sale of players, as well as their aging, retirement and even death."

-internet review

Many board game to video game adaptations have single player options/AI (including the Dominion implementation mentioned previously).

My understanding is that all of the features listed here also exist in the board game (league play).

I haven't played either, but from the descriptions here, the comparison seems similar to Pokemon TCG vs. Pokemon Red. Same flavor, different mechanics.

Having not played Pokemon TCG, I can do a quick google and see that the mechanics are very different - the video game has an experience system, teams set at the beginning of a battle with a fixed number of moves per pokemon, pokemon customizable by moveset, ability, EV training, etc., while the card game uses a random deck customizable by using different card versions, pokemon evolve during play, energy cards to perform moves, etc.

What I am trying to establish is whether there are truly different mechanics for Blood Bowl tabletop vs. Blood Bowl Chaos League, and I have not been able to do that yet. So far I've got "real-time, which sucks" and that's about it.

[Brandi]

Thanks for taking the time to work this out Mith~ <3
The single player campaign

absolutely

does not exist in the board game.
League solo play is for the video game and the video game only. There is a League play in the board game but that is not single player.
I have looked it up extensively, Sudo can also confirm that it does not exist in boardgame form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Bowl
Ctrl+f "single" or "solo" for easy mode. Non-existent.

~(I've been looking up more info to compare but info on the board game is so SCARCE because every page directs me to information about the video game)~

Here is a .PDF of the "living rulebook", the last official rulebook for the tabletop version:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... lebook.pdf
There is clearly no option for solo play (I can't really think of a way it would work anyway)
Also worth noting that there are 3 less official playable races in the tabletop version than the video game version.
It's not much, but it does mean that the video game offers things you'll never get in the board game.

Also~ real time as a mode existing, even if it's not loved by the major playerbase should definitely be for consideration. (which you said you are considering)

And, I play a lot of board games and even tabletop games myself, I'm not hating on them in any form! It's just that the video game version of this is better! =b

Sorry if you've spent too much time looking into this, I'll admit I'm terrible at arguing a point and base things more on emotional experiences rather than logic... and have probably made this more difficult than it should be ._.
I also realize that AI exists in other video game versions of board games, such as AI opponents in the video game for monopoly. I feel like an entire solo campaign is different enough but if it's not I'll accept it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

For sports games, can we nominate the series or do we have to pick a specific year?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Are mobile games "video games"? Can we nominate, say, Angry Birds?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

Really? I mean, I'm all about White Wolf, but I heard this game sucked.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Counter Strike

Which version? 1.6, Source, or GO? One of those sucked royally, they weren't all good.