[M] Newbie 1440: Maestro's Manic Mafia - DAY 3

[aphix]

Smudger jumping right into an rvs vote is strange. His posts also seem to be filler. Without much content. And certainly isn't taking a standpoint with an actual post.

41: this concerns me. So it's too early for any reads? Too early for attempting to play the game? Participate? Generate content? Early reads may not be helpful but they can be used for all sorts of things. Instead you choose to sit on a fence and not participate which is scum behavior. No interaction can't help town here. Perhaps rarely helps town.

VOTE: atlasblade

[SplashMaster]

I agree. Peabody's been making a lot of inquisitions, which I guess is pro-town, but the forced nature of them seem a little off putting, like he's more interested in APPEARING pro-town than BEING pro town.

if you could elaborate on the differences that you have mentioned that might be helpful.

Probably going to have to back off on my Peabody case. I guess what I'm saying about "only appearing pro-town" is that I think bussing on Day 1 is a good scum tactic, and one that I've seen Peabody use in one of his games. I think that if a scum flips early on, its always a good idea to check his lynchers.

41: this concerns me. So it's too early for any reads? Too early for attempting to play the game? Participate? Generate content? Early reads may not be helpful but they can be used for all sorts of things. Instead you choose to sit on a fence and not participate which is scum behavior. No interaction can't help town here. Perhaps rarely helps town.

VOTE: atlasblade

I agree with this, although maybe not the vote. I think stirring up the hornets nest early on, whether is being done by town or mafia, is a good way to get the game going.

I personally don't want to cast any votes until Ravenpaw chimes in, then we'll have all the players in the game. I take my votes very seriously!

[SplashMaster]

Also, I don't really get the point of RVS. Its funny, to be sure, but even if you RVS'd a scum, I doubt they'd be sweating bullets. What do you seasoned players think?

[Atlasblade]

Smudger jumping right into an rvs vote is strange. His posts also seem to be filler. Without much content. And certainly isn't taking a standpoint with an actual post.

41: this concerns me. So it's too early for any reads? Too early for attempting to play the game? Participate? Generate content? Early reads may not be helpful but they can be used for all sorts of things. Instead you choose to sit on a fence and not participate which is scum behavior. No interaction can't help town here. Perhaps rarely helps town.

VOTE: atlasblade

Personally I said that because I felt that generating any few reliable reads at that time is hard to do, especially when we're three pages in atm. At least for me. I will probably get some reads when I come home.

[Smudger]

@Aphix

Your post 50 just want to examine it a little, why is starting the game with an RVS post strange. In particular when its appearance is explained? Also please explain more fully what you mean by filler? Some key examples would be good and then maybe you might want to put some meat on those bones you just threw into the thread there. Basically elaborate why it is filler... in your opinion that is. You see my aim is to ask questions and to challenge what people in the game are saying. Sort of lets me put facts together for later on or when I feel someone is only half heartedly taking part. Then I push a little to see what falls out and then if needs must interrogate a little further. So if you could I would appreciate a little more explanation on your statement.

@ Splashmaster

need a little more actually as you have not answered my question fully.

In addition, why are you waiting for Ravenspaw before you comment further? You sound a little like Someone else and that is not good as it is knowing as sheeping others and leads people to think bad things about you

Like now



VOTE: Splashmaster

[SplashMaster]

@ Smudger

The wording of your recent question/accusation is confusing me a little. But what I mean by my comment about Ravenspaw is that not all the players are here yet, and thus the game is hardly afoot. While I think lurking is scummy, I don't think highly of making assumptions when not all the players are even confirmed to be playing the game.

I don't see how waiting for a player is scummy. Isn't it better to see what they have to say? Its so hard to make a case on Day 1, because all we really have to go on are oddly worded statements and "irregular" behavior. Therefore, ANYTHING that another player can add or shed light upon would be helpful to the town, at least in my opinion.

[Peabody]

@Naio

I havent played before (only watched streams of people playing) and I've picked up some things from that, such as when someone storms in like Peabody is, being very aggressive, more times than not they are mafia. The reason being that they try to blast it in people's faces that they are town by trying to accuse whomever they can, with the long-game being that they "lead" the town as a "confirmed town".
I also dont like that you are immediately combative with everyone calling you out on things. Seems scummy to me. And you're sooo sooo sooo defensive right away, i feel like a town wouldnt play that way.

I never claimed to be confirmed town, and is it really that farfetched to want to throw out a serious vote right away on something I see as suspect? In a random voting stage, people throw out votes to start discussion. Your vote was for silly purposes:

Mostly because he used TD;LR instead of TL;DR

yet you felt compelled to fit in by trying again and again to place down your vote.

I'm not going to keep RVS going for the sake of RVS. If I see something scummy, I point it out.

---------------------------------

@Acting Method

My bad for all the double-posts guys. Little tipsy at the moment and didnt think my entire post through. I also don't like that Peabody has posted a handful of times and is calling people out for crappy responses to the question, but hasn't yet answered himself.

Yeah now that I agree with. For someone calling people out for not answering the RQS stage questions that's a bit weird.

I didn't call anyone out for not answering questions.

I'm personally getting a town read from Peabody, and I like that he's got some conversation that isn't RVS/RQS started and getting the ball rolling. That's good. As for who I think is scum, that's going to take another readthrough.

How is this indicative of alignment? While I started the discussion, I've been the target of discussion.

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@Splash

- I'm against policy lynches in general. They rob the town of information because a scum can latch onto them just as easy as town can.

Probably going to have to back off on my Peabody case. I guess what I'm saying about "only appearing pro-town" is that I think bussing on Day 1 is a good scum tactic, and one that I've seen Peabody use in one of his games. I think that if a scum flips early on, its always a good idea to check his lynchers.

What? Do you think I'm scum or not? And if you think I'm scum, do you think you'll get lynched because you -do think I'll flip scum and you were prodding me? You said you have a "Peabody case" but you never voted me. Which game did you read because my last scum game was years ago?

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@Scot

, can you answer this question please.

@Aphix

: do you think RVS stage will really tell you how a player posts? Many times it's just strings of votes for silly reasons. The reads don't come until later.

[SplashMaster]

What? Do you think I'm scum or not?

I think I would have voted for you if I did. I'm not expecting any major scum tells on page 3.

Which game did you read because my last scum game was years ago?

I read one of your scum games on your wiki page, titled: "Mini 863: Space Station Mafia," but that was about four years ago! I didn't notice that. I suppose its irrelevant than?

-----

What I've been trying to do recently is compare and contrast all of the more experienced players in the game (TAM, Peabody, Smudger). Smudger seems aggressive compared to Peabody's defensive. Does that means anything, or is it more just different styles of play?

[aphix]

@peabody: it helps provide a baseline.

I agree with Peabody that him getting discussion going in this case isn't indicative of an alignment. I still dislike the aggressiveness.

@smudger: if you post within rvs an random vote isn't strange. Trying to take us back to rvs is strange. Then aside from asking some questions you don't really provide any content of your own. No content IMO is filler. It looks to me an attempt to be busy without saying anything. Although I think I agree with your reasoning behind your vote. What I think your reasoning is might be wrong as you content to not put your own opinion down. I'm sure in a few posts it'll turn out to be.a pressure vote or something.

@splash: there is no reason to stall a game because of one player. They well become active or be replaced. Waiting or avoiding game development at any point isn't good for town. Yes perhaps there information could be helpful or it couldn't. I'd rather lynch someone for scum behavior and information available then try and wait and hit a deadline.

[scotpgot]

@Scot

, can you answer this question please.

It's not that I'm feeling aggressive. It's that I'm pointing things out as I see them occur.

What makes you think that second post was an accusation?

Because you either "don't like this" and yet are totally cool with it, or you "don't like this" and mean it as an indication of

some

sort of scummy behavior. The second, to me, seems much more likely.

[Smudger]

@ SplashMaster

Post 55


The point of my observation was that, to me, you were merely echoing what had already been said by Acting Method. This is basically referred to as sheeping, while your motives are understandable and now you have explained it there is still doubt in my mind, in fact this could actually be referred to as "filler". There are others currently taking part, players whom you could interact with, and put pressure on to get a reaction and go from there. to be honest your post is a rather lazy way of explaining why you have no vote in place.

Now back to the other reason for my vote on you

you said

I agree. Peabody's been making a lot of inquisitions, which I guess is pro-town, but the forced nature of them seem a little off putting, like he's more interested in

APPEARING pro-town than BEING pro town.

my question was

if you could elaborate on the differences that you have mentioned that might be helpful.

the explanation I was looking for was the differences between those points I have now bolded in your post. IMO you are yet to fully answer the question.

@ aphix

your post 58

where did I try to take it back to RVS? have you in fact read my opening posts? and of course my response to your observation?

Further you reply about my question on "filler". You have read my post 54 in particular the part that covers your question? this -

"You see my aim is to ask questions and to challenge what people in the game are saying. Sort of lets me put facts together for later on or when I feel someone is only half heartedly taking part. Then I push a little to see what falls out and then if needs must interrogate a little further"

so the same type of question to you as I have put to SplashMaster, if you could explain the difference between asking questions and content?

@ SplashMaster

your post 57, if you think I am aggressive you will have a shock playing with other players on this site, compared to them I am mild mannered, if you want I can get aggressive..

[Smudger]

Probably going to have to back off on my Peabody case.

I forgot to ask you about this, why? because you got some flack for it? or you think there is no case?

@ Naio

just so you do not miss it there is a question for you in post 42

41: this concerns me. So it's too early for any reads? Too early for attempting to play the game? Participate? Generate content? Early reads may not be helpful but they can be used for all sorts of things. Instead you choose to sit on a fence and not participate which is scum behavior. No interaction can't help town here. Perhaps rarely helps town.

VOTE: atlasblade

I'm sure in a few posts it'll turn out to be.a pressure vote or something.

hopefully...

[Peabody]

I think I would have voted for you if I did. I'm not expecting any major scum tells on page 3.

Then your "case" puzzles me.

unvote; vote Splashmaster

Who do you think is scum? Who your top scumread is so far? Why do you think you should 'back off' of me?

A tentative push? No vote? Scum? Probably.
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Smudger's method of posting irks me the wrong way, but I'm not sure if it's playstyle or not.
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@peabody: it helps provide a baseline.

You never explained HOW a string of silly votes can provide a baseline. It doesn't. And yes, this is important, so please answer.
-------------------------

Because you either "don't like this" and yet are totally cool with it, or you "don't like this" and mean it as an indication of some sort of scummy behavior. The second, to me, seems much more likely.

Hm. Okay.
-------------------

where did I try to take it back to RVS?

Here. You plopped a vote for a silly reason, asked your questions, and never reapplied a vote.

[aphix]

@peabody: as I stated. Literally how they post. If you haven't noticed there is a difference in tone. Word usage. Soemtimes spelling grammatical errors when someone is calm versus stressful. It gives a feeling to their posts.

@smudger: posts 35-38 they are completely bogus. You make an random vote and say some random things. Well. See 62 above. In regards to content. Well only asking questions helps others generate content. Only posting questions and replying with what amounts to be unapplied theory at best and noncomital noise at worse. You post two large posts. Within ten minutes adding in "forgot to ask" and the end to 61 what is the point of throwing two unrelated quotes from me? It indicates to me you are trying to make me look dumb and you are so clever, but it is also horrible misrepresentation. Now we can just quote what we want from where we want to create all sorts of far fetched combinations?

VOTE: smudger

Don't like his tone or attitude at this point. He feels to dodge question and take no actual stances. If it continues it's going to be detrimental to the town.

[Peabody]

Don't like his tone or attitude at this point. He feels to dodge question and take no actual stances. If it continues it's going to be detrimental to the town.

So, is this vote on Smudger because you think he is scum or because you think he is detrimental to the town?

About the baseline posting styles, I still don't see how you can get that from RVS only and think I'm scum for ending your baseline reading. But meh, I think I got as much out of you on that topic as I will.

[Peabody]

What happened to your scum read on Atlas? What about the scum read on me?

[The Acting Method]

@Acting Method

My bad for all the double-posts guys. Little tipsy at the moment and didnt think my entire post through. I also don't like that Peabody has posted a handful of times and is calling people out for crappy responses to the question, but hasn't yet answered himself.

Yeah now that I agree with. For someone calling people out for not answering the RQS stage questions that's a bit weird.

I didn't call anyone out for not answering questions.

I'm personally getting a town read from Peabody, and I like that he's got some conversation that isn't RVS/RQS started and getting the ball rolling. That's good. As for who I think is scum, that's going to take another readthrough.

How is this indicative of alignment? While I started the discussion, I've been the target of discussion.

Yeah, this is my bad for not properly reading Naio's posts (which I misinterpreted). Though I do agree calling other people out for responses without answering yourself is a bit odd.

You still made your first post an attempt at getting us out of RVS/RQS stage (which I liked that you did.) You're posts feel genuine and I have felt you have been proactive in your responses to others instead of pure defense. That is why I see you as town.

[Naio]

Ok having now read to this point, the reactions to Peabody from some and I would say that they have merit, but not a lot.

@ Naio

30 which is it Naio, is he scum and worthy of a vote or not, because it seems to contradict itself. you state it is a serious vote, but then seem to back out of it with the line regarding remembering page one in two weeks time.

Not backing out of anything, my comment about everyone forgetting was a separate topic.

I haven't changed my vote, Peabody has been reading very scum to me since the beginning. lots of defending himself very aggressively after what appears to be his plan backfiring by trying to call me out.

[SplashMaster]

Howdy everyone. Probably going to be my only post for today; life's been busy!

@ SplashMaster

your post 57, if you think I am aggressive you will have a shock playing with other players on this site, compared to them I am mild mannered, if you want I can get aggressive..

Woah woah woah woah, did I say aggressive? No sir! I, uh, I just noticed you're, uh, asking some questions! Who said Smudger was aggressive? Not me! Nope!

VOTE: smudger

Don't like his tone or attitude at this point. He feels to dodge question and take no actual stances. If it continues it's going to be detrimental to the town.

What questions has he dodged? In any case, he clearly has a stance. Let me address his stance for a second...

@ Peabody and Smudger- I'm catching a lot of flak for nibbling at Peabody and then backing off. Bare in mind that this was a fairly early post I made in a game with fairly little content to use. Anyway, you two since then have been digging up dirt on all the players, which I don't think is scummy.

Anyway, on what is the difference between appearing pro-town and being pro-town? Well, I don't really know! I thought I did when I posted that. Its the ultimate crux of Mafia. If I had a good answer I'd be much better at this game!

We should call this game SE vs. Newbies because there is certainly a divide between the two! Smudger and Peabody don't like me, aphix doesn't like smudger, naio doesn't like peabody, and I don't like anyone! I think that, for balance reasons, the scumteam would be comprised of newbies and seasoned players alike, so this can't be the case, though.

Anyway, then we have atlasblade, who has done basically nothing. Few posts, no town reads, no scum reads. Its starting to seem fishy.

VOTE: atlasblade

[Smudger]

Ok, first and foremost

someones tone or the way in which they express themselves is not indicative of their alignment and cannot be suggest as a strong reason to suspect someone. I thought we had had this discussion?

@ aphix

please show me where I am "dodging questions, comments or statements that are either directed at me or about me?

the unrelated quotes you refer to are indeed related if you read them and understand what I am accusing you off, which is basically a case of "pot - kettle".

As for when someone posts and the timings between them, let me tell you something that may help you, it means absolutely nothing unless they were contradictory to each other, which they are not.

The idea of the game is to ask questions, have you asked any questions at all? anything that would help locate and eliminate scum? my questions are geared to do that and I have already explained my strategy and see no reason why I should stop doing what I am doing, or for that matter restate that strategy.

your case against me is weak and opportunistic, I see no reasoning behind it or actual analysis of what is being said if you want to criticise my post content then give examples and show reason/method.

now answer my question please and stop evading, theres a good boy.

[Smudger]

Woah woah woah woah, did I say aggressive? No sir! I, uh, I just noticed you're, uh, asking some questions! Who said Smudger was aggressive? Not me! Nope!

Smudger seems aggressive compared to Peabody's defensive. Does that means anything, or is it more just different styles of play?

Anyway, on what is the difference between appearing pro-town and being pro-town? Well, I don't really know! I thought I did when I posted that. Its the ultimate crux of Mafia. If I had a good answer I'd be much better at this game!

thank you for answering the question. the point is you made a statement and an accusation but cannot explain that accusation and so it fits what aphix would call filler. this does not lift my vote from you to be honest all it does is strengthen it. but then it is not just this, it is the fact you seem to be blundering around and not doing much other than make statements which are baseless and you cannot fully explain when questioned on, you are also now seemingly prone to backtracking based on your post 68.

Smudger's method of posting irks me the wrong way, but I'm not sure if it's playstyle or not

I get this a lot, but so I fully understand what irks you, please explain?

We should call this game SE vs. Newbies because there is certainly a divide between the two! Smudger and Peabody don't like me, aphix doesn't like smudger, naio doesn't like peabody, and I don't like anyone! I think that, for balance reasons, the scumteam would be comprised of newbies and seasoned players alike, so this can't be the case, though.

I had to go check and yes you are right it does look like the division of players is as you have stated, but this is in no way indicative of all newbie games. your use of the wording "don't like" is fine but I would say suspicious is a better word in fact, in relation to my thoughts on you I am highly suspicious of you. as for the composition of the scum team that is a very interesting observation, why in particular would you say it in the way you have?

[Smudger]

I would like to hear a lot more from

Acting Method, Ravenspaw and Naio as all are very quite, to varying degrees.

@ MOD can you prod Ravenspaw?

so for now my two main suspects are SplashMaster and aphix, if they are both scum they are playing terribly if they are town then they need to up their game drastically. I will also now look at the interaction between each of them to see what has and is happening.

[Smudger]

@Scotpgot

You seem to be slipping by un noticed and having now read your ISO I was wondering what are your current thoughts on those that are active?

[Smudger]

Here. You plopped a vote for a silly reason, asked your questions, and never reapplied a vote.

I have explained this and my vote has in fact been reapplied, or did you miss that?

as for asking questions

ONCE AGAIN PEOPLE

that is

WHAT YOU DO IN THIS GAME!

If you do not like being asked questions then don't play

So if you find it a sticking point then please pursue it and apply pressure to me, otherwise let it go and move on and get hunting.

[aphix]

You just are posting to post now. You are getting close to just personal attacks which is pretty uncalled for honestly. Asking questions isn't what this game is about. Uncovering information is. All you are doing is muddying the game. It's not helpful.

Perhaps I missed your question among the avalanche of words you call posts. Care to repeat it?

Honestly you are just coming off as attempting to be all knowing king of awesome here. Perhaps trying to get the "newbs" to listen to you because obviously if you treat people like they are beneath you you have to know what's up right? Get off it. Try maybe one post at a time instead of plastering a wall of garbage that in no way is anyone going to get through it and remember what's on top.