Mini 1504 - Antihero Mafia REBOOT [GAME OVER]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Umm ok. ISOd thor. Now thoroughly confused. (Though kudos on the "tailor" ref. I<3U for that but I hate your slot).

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases? I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

How am I supposed to get a read on this mess... who here has played with this guy before???

P-edit: G-man, I have only ISO'd thor as I just got back to the thread now. I'll need a few minutes to catch up as I'm at work.

[Paschendale]

Thor and Darthe and definitely scum. Lying Cat might be. Grim has been so full of confirmation bias the whole game and just has it out for me. Majiffy is ???.

Please, players who are not scum or retarded, speak out against this godawful wagon. Try to figure out why anything I've done actually looks like it's scum-motivated. Notice how the people on it besides Grim have not even bothered to delve into why they are voting for me.

This wagon is obviously helped by scum and obviously a mislynch. I would happily be refuting whatever reasons the players besides Grim have given for targeting me... except there are none. The closest anyone came is Thor listening to Grim bitch about me and then nodding his head as he looks at his scum role PM and hops on Grim's idiot wagon.

Don't be stupid. Kill obvscum Thor right now. He is refusing to catch up on the thread, so missing out on a lot of information. This way he can not have to own up for Varsoon's scummy acts, and distance himself from our reads on Varsoon, which were becoming unilaterally scumleans. Varsoon was caught scum and fled. That slot is still caught, even though it's Thor now and not Varsoon. Don't let Thor make you forget.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Beard = Thor is manly and probably smells faintly of bacon, and thus his opinion is right.

Ease of consensus - I have two players ripping at each other while *both* claim that this other player is the scum pal of the other. Hint: if either of you really think what you think, wouldn't that make him the obv. buddy that they are soft bussing? And if so, why not be willing to vote him to call their bluff at the very least? Heck, you have a built in person who should sheep your vote, already giving you one of the strongest wagons at the moment making it vastly more useful than what either of you are doing right now.

Took me a minute to understand what the fuck Thor was saying here. What don't understand is how this makes pasch (a good town read of mine) scum. (To be honest, I do not recall any convincing cases from either AP or Grim on pasch, or perhaps I might feel differently).

Beard = Thor is manly and probably smells faintly of bacon, and thus his opinion is right.

bullshit give me a proper reason... I've never played with you before and I've heard you are good. I also thought Mastin was good before playing with him and he was a bit of a disappointment. He didn't inherit a scummy slot when he replaced in... you did. Don't make me lynch your sorry ass due to bullshit reasoning like this as I will get even more disappointed with the so called elite members on this site :/

Ease of consensus - I have two players ripping at each other while *both* claim that this other player is the scum pal of the other. Hint: if either of you really think what you think, wouldn't that make him the obv. buddy that they are soft bussing? And if so, why not be willing to vote him to call their bluff at the very least? Heck, you have a built in person who should sheep your vote, already giving you one of the strongest wagons at the moment making it vastly more useful than what either of you are doing right now.

AP and us ripping into each other? Have you considered that both of us could be town and we both suspect wrongly that he is scum?

"Suspect wrongly that he (pasch) is scum". Suspect wrongly.. ??

Or that we both are scum and we are just playing you for a fool putting out scum lists with a common link to set up an easy mislynch?

Another scenario where pasch is town. ? Do you or don't you think pasch is scum? I'm confused here because a few pages ago I was under the impression you thought pasch was town, and varsoon was not. Then Thor shows up and you flip your story for what looks to me like fear of Thor. I don't know if this makes you scum or not. Yet.

If pasch flips scum who is your next favourite for a lynch Thor?

And if pasch flips town?

If you are not to the point you think I am being pro-scum, vote me.

CONFUSING. "If you don't think I'm scum, vote me." Is that right? This makes no sense. Please explain.

[Thor665]

If we both agree that Pasch is scum I'm happy to leave you alone for now but I'm expecting some more from you tomorrow. You'll have all of the night to read up on the game.

So you think a lynch should happen before I catch up?

Umm ok. ISOd thor. Now thoroughly confused. (Though kudos on the "tailor" ref. I<3U for that but I hate your slot).

Why do you hate my slot?
If you make a case about how scummy I am you might actually get some traction and move things forward. This game is begging for a case to be made. I have openly requested cases and received nothing. I made a case based around other people's half explained thoughts and got an L-1 wagon in a few minutes.

Basically, I suspect people are all being lazy and are starved for anyone to actually take a real and defined stance on ANYTHING. Why don't you lead that charge?
Otherwise I will.
And you think I'm scum.

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases?

Where have I claimed or implied any of that?

I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

My posts are actually far less empty than anyone else who has posted thus far. Serious, look the pages over since I entered and tell me who has presented more reads with reasoning. You might be able to argue Majiffy and that is literally it. And I would debate the Majiffy one.

How am I supposed to get a read on this mess...

By scumhunting instead of complaining how impossible it is to scumhunt every time you post because...*gasp* 4 pages!
Here, I'll even give you a handy guide.

1. Explain your case against my slot.
2. Explain why you oppose/support the L-1 wagon that you haven't even addressed (hint: it's on Pasch)
3. Give me a read on any other player, town or scum read, I care not, who is not Thor or Pasch.

This will be sexy, give it a whirl (secret extra hint: Thor has already presented a case, offered multiple reads, and created and discussed the L-1 wagon in his "empty" posts)

Thor and Darthe and definitely scum. Lying Cat might be. Grim has been so full of confirmation bias the whole game and just has it out for me. Majiffy is ???.

So two scum reads, a possible scum read, a...confirmation bias read, and a 'I dunno' read.
I'm guessing this means you think Majiffy and Grim are town - or are you expecting more than 3 scum on your wagon right now?

The closest anyone came is Thor listening to Grim bitch about me and then nodding his head as he looks at his scum role PM and hops on Grim's idiot wagon.

That's a nice upgrade from me having done the least.

Don't be stupid. Kill obvscum Thor right now. He is refusing to catch up on the thread, so missing out on a lot of information.

Like what? If I missed something important let me know.

This way he can not have to own up for Varsoon's scummy acts, and distance himself from our reads on Varsoon, which were becoming unilaterally scumleans. Varsoon was caught scum and fled. That slot is still caught, even though it's Thor now and not Varsoon. Don't let Thor make you forget.

You do realize that I specifically asked you for your case on Varsoon.
I'll even accept a quote.
If I don't respond to your allegations after you present the case then this is an appropriate thing to say.
But complaining that I'm trying to dodge the case after you just dodged telling me what it is seems kinda silly.
Frankly, until I see a case I sorta don't think there even is one to respond to.
You should prove me wrong.
It will look townish.

[Thor665]

If you are not

,

to the point you think I am being pro-scum, vote me.

CONFUSING. "If you don't think I'm scum, vote me." Is that right? This makes no sense. Please explain.

And I missed this due to multi tabs.
But here, I'll insert the comma you need.

[Darthe]

Ok. 4 new pages in 24 hours... you guys are fucking insane. <3

You think that's bad? Try 70 in a day.

[Thor665]

Hey, Darthe, what do you think of your Pasch wagon now that it is at L-1. You were the first vote and I would have thought you'd have some opinion on it at all rather than just poking the hapless player for yuks.

I mean, I still support you doing that, because it's funny, but I have faith you could multi-task. Whassup?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If we both agree that Pasch is scum I'm happy to leave you alone for now but I'm expecting some more from you tomorrow. You'll have all of the night to read up on the game.

So you think a lynch should happen before I catch up?

Umm ok. ISOd thor. Now thoroughly confused. (Though kudos on the "tailor" ref. I<3U for that but I hate your slot).

Why do you hate my slot?

I did not like the way varsoon dodged his responsibility to actually play the game for pretty much all of Day 1, until the wagon on JKLM got close to being a lynch. At that point, he decided to defend JKLM repeatedly with no evidence to back this up. I found it extremely suspicious that he felt the need to do this, when everything JKLM had done up to that moment pointed to him being scum. Yet Varsoon was positive he was town, did not explain why he was positive, then said JKLM was indeed scum, then went back to saying he was town. I don't know how else to interpret that kind of behavior other than scum attempting to gain town cred after a town flip.

If you make a case about how scummy I am you might actually get some traction and move things forward. This game is begging for a case to be made. I have openly requested cases and received nothing. I made a case based around other people's half explained thoughts and got an L-1 wagon in a few minutes.

Yes you are so wonderful for pushing a lynch on one of my town reads. Go you.

I have already made a case against Varsoon, and by extension, you. I do not fancy repeating myself because you don't feel it's necessary to read the fucking game.

Basically, I suspect people are all being lazy and are starved for anyone to actually take a real and defined stance on ANYTHING. Why don't you lead that charge?
Otherwise I will.
And you think I'm scum.

Yes. I do.

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases?

Where have I claimed or implied any of that?

Obviously, your posts up to mine gave me that impression. It's not like I pulled it out of thin air. I asked you for clarification and all you say is "Where did I say that?" That's not what I asked. I asked if that is indeed what your intentions are. Answer the question.

I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

My posts are actually far less empty than anyone else who has posted thus far. Serious, look the pages over since I entered and tell me who has presented more reads with reasoning. You might be able to argue Majiffy and that is literally it. And I would debate the Majiffy one.

I quoted and responded to the posts you made that had any substance. The rest was filler bullshit. Subtly implying that you are the only one scum hunting to discredit anyone's suspicions of you is scummy as fuck.

How am I supposed to get a read on this mess...

By scumhunting instead of complaining how impossible it is to scumhunt every time you post because...*gasp* 4 pages!

Don't be a dick. It doesn't suit you. 100 posts is still a lot and I am allowed to comment on it light heartedly. If you have a problem with that, I will gladly grow a penis for you suck on.

Here, I'll even give you a handy guide.

1. Explain your case against my slot.

I have already done so. Do your homework. Don't just pretend it doesn't exist.

2. Explain why you oppose/support the L-1 wagon that you haven't even addressed (hint: it's on Pasch)

I do not support a lynch on pasch at the moment because I have him as a town read. I feel he has actively engaged others in the thread from the beginning, sought to learn the intentions behind people's actions, and their motivations, and asked good probing questions of everyone, and responded with his thoughts on why he agrees or disagrees. I do not see him acting like a pushy arrogant jerk (hint: that's you).

3. Give me a read on any other player, town or scum read, I care not, who is not Thor or Pasch.

Flying beauties is my top town read. I've already explained why.
Grim is townscum. My read on him has changed about 100 times while reading this game.
Majiffy is null because I can't read him and I don't know what he is trying to do.
Darthe is scummy. I don't feel like he's produced anything noteworthy or contributed anything of use at all. He seems to have coasted through Day 1 and it looks like he will likely do so again today.

This will be sexy, give it a whirl (secret extra hint: Thor has already presented a case, offered multiple reads, and created and discussed the L-1 wagon in his "empty" posts)

Reads based on what? The 6 pages or so of Day 2? You "created" a wagon? Dude. You think I'm supposed to respect a wagon on one of my town reads that was pushed by my top scum read. Yes. This certainly makes you town. 23 posts as of my catch-up post is what you made. I quoted how many? 4? 5? I'd say if only 4 or 5 of your 23 posts were worth responding to then, yes, the majority of your posting has been "empty".

[AngryPidgeon]

I really need to limit myself to one game at a time.

AP I have a slight scum vibe off of since he actually didn't preach about his reads, which on Day 2 feels rather off from him.

Well my only good scumread was on your slot and Im certainly not going to waste your time preaching to you about you being scum.

Verily doth yon saucy maiden protest too much. Forsooth, i shalt quaff mine mead and ravish thee anon!

Annnd, this is still probably scum. This is just like Thor from mini 1393.

Don't make me lynch your sorry ass due to bullshit reasoning like this as I will get even more disappointed with the so called elite members on this site :/

Lol. This is so scummy. Why are you apologizing to Thor about having to lynch him? This is the slot you guys have been siding with (and are still) siding with. Inb4 hydra dissonance.

Look Thor I want you to ISO Pasch and give me and Grim a good reason based on his play as to why he is scum. It shouldn't be too difficult.

Thor hasn't read anything yet. Why should Thor necessarily find Pasch scummy after reading his slot? Like the fact that you guys are OBSESSED with this Pasch read feels a lot like bussing.

Thor v Grim is terrible in general actually, both propagating shitty arguments over Pasch that don't actually go anywhere. I thought that Grim was very sure Varsoon was town and they certainly didn't antagonize him this way. Suddenly Thor replace in and we get all this crap and "omg Thor needs to pass burden of proficiency or hes scum".

Mollie, what is your read on Thor v Grim?

Go home Guyett, you're drunk. (though you make a good point about this overlap-thing)

Implying hydra dissonance on the Thor matter right when the interaction of these slots is looking terrible.

I will go to church with you, print out fliers about how bad and anti-town this is, and distribute them around town.
That said...have you ever played with AP before?

Grim did in a scumgame of mine recently. I'd link it but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess you dont care.

[Majiffy]

Well, you know what they say about a Thor or Jiffy in LYLO...

Sheep them?

why is thor dodging my questions?

discuss

He's hoping you'll go away if I coddle you correctly.

Which of us are scum and which are town?

Didn't you read your role PM? This is reverse mafia, we're trying to lynch the townies.

scumhunt majiffy and I will be satisfied.

Whut?

She wants you to call me town.
Or, knowing her, call me scum so that she can call you town for agreeing with her preconceived notion of how town is supposed to read ScumMe.

who here has played with this guy before???

Just treat him like you treat me. We play in a similar way.

Notice how the people on it besides Grim have not even bothered to delve into why they are voting for me.

Shits and giggles, mostly. You make a good bet for scum.

[Thor665]

I did not like the way varsoon dodged his responsibility to actually play the game for pretty much all of Day 1, until the wagon on JKLM got close to being a lynch. At that point, he decided to defend JKLM repeatedly with no evidence to back this up. I found it extremely suspicious that he felt the need to do this, when everything JKLM had done up to that moment pointed to him being scum. Yet Varsoon was positive he was town, did not explain why he was positive, then said JKLM was indeed scum, then went back to saying he was town. I don't know how else to interpret that kind of behavior other than scum attempting to gain town cred after a town flip.

That might make sense, but if he was scum planning to lurk and then defend for town cred, why would he ever call the slot scummy like you just said he did? That's the opposite of hunting for town cred.
How did you justify such bad scum play into your theory?

I have already made a case against Varsoon, and by extension, you. I do not fancy repeating myself because you don't feel it's necessary to read the Smurfing game.

I will accept you quoting it. Or linking it.
Give me a rough page or post number and I'll even go do the legwork myself at that stage. But, no, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to repeat themselves about a case I wasn't around to read.

Obviously, your posts up to mine gave me that impression.

That's fine.
Where and how?
Because you're actually making up things. And I'm wanting to know why and hopefully see the mental progression there.

It's not like I pulled it out of thin air.

Eh...for the reading part, no, you didn't, there is logic to back that. However in thread I have explicitly claimed I'd make cases and I don't recall saying anything about refusing to read ISOs ever.

I asked you for clarification and all you say is "Where did I say that?" That's not what I asked. I asked if that is indeed what your intentions are. Answer the question.

Hey, EspeciallyTheLies, can you explain who you roleblocked last night?
I know that you didn't claim to do that anywhere, but it's the vibe I got - so answer the question.
Asking me where I got the vibe from is NOT COOL!

I quoted and responded to the posts you made that had any substance. The rest was filler bullSmurf. Subtly implying that you are the only one scum hunting to discredit anyone's suspicions of you is scummy as Smurf.

I didn't imply - I flat out stated.
And it's true.
If that's scummy of me it's even worse for everyone else being so terrible as to let my (and I will agree, not shockingly massive) efforts overshine them all.
But that's not my fault. And I'm even trying to force people to do more, unlike some players I could name.

Don't be a dick. It doesn't suit you. 100 posts is still a lot and I am allowed to comment on it light heartedly. If you have a problem with that, I will gladly grow a penis for you suck on.

Yes, you can tell by this reply that *I* am the one being rude.

I do not support a lynch on pasch at the moment because I have him as a town read. I feel he has actively engaged others in the thread from the beginning, sought to learn the intentions behind people's actions, and their motivations, and asked good probing questions of everyone, and responded with his thoughts on why he agrees or disagrees. I do not see him acting like a pushy arrogant jerk (hint: that's you).

Is being rude a scumtell now?
Also, could you point me towards a good Pasch post - he hasn't had any since I replaced in so I'd like to see one. Pick any one which screamed town to you.

Flying beauties is my top town read. I've already explained why.
Grim is townscum. My read on him has changed about 100 times while reading this game.
Majiffy is null because I can't read him and I don't know what he is trying to do.
Darthe is scummy. I don't feel like he's produced anything noteworthy or contributed anything of use at all. He seems to have coasted through Day 1 and it looks like he will likely do so again today.

What's the approximate page (or a link) to your reasoning for Flying Beauties to be town?
I should take townscum as "null" yeah?
Majiffy did, as a prime reaction to me, push FB as town - considering your other reads isn't that a positive?
What do you plan to do about coasting Darthe? I asked him questions, what was your plan?

Reads based on what? The 6 pages or so of Day 2?

Yes. Is there some rule about needing to read pages in order in order to note scum and town reads in them?

You "created" a wagon? Dude. You think I'm supposed to respect a wagon on one of my town reads that was pushed by my top scum read.

You don't need to respect it, but I would like to think you can notice that I created it - meaning I am doing stuff, which previously you said I wasn't.

Yes. This certainly makes you town.

I never said it did.
I did say I was not posting empty posts - which is what you said I was doing. If you agree my posts are not empty but are scummy that is a discussion we can have, but don't straw man me and act like you're winning the debate. that's kinda silly.

23 posts as of my catch-up post is what you made. I quoted how many? 4? 5? I'd say if only 4 or 5 of your 23 posts were worth responding to then, yes, the majority of your posting has been "empty".

And yet you didn't quote multiple posts where I expressed opinions on players or pushed wagons, or even voted.
Maybe we just have a different definition of 'empty'
Mine would be "empty of game content" if I was being precise.
How do you mean it?

[AngryPidgeon]

Right and suddenly in 992 Thor is ok with just putting Pasch at L - 1 after this scummy herpaderp with Grim.

994 is distinctly lacking a claim which Im not sure how I feel about. Town are more likely to freak out and drop a claim if they are getting turbo wagoned.

Making her, as usual, a good policy death.

Lets not start this, thanks.

If you are town you know this sort of crap is going to result in a repeat of mykonian's game.

I never said it was a conclusion, did I?

Then what were you saying? This post is so useless, but I know I was scumreading Thor for propagating crap with Mollie in Patator and that was a crap read as it turned out. sadlkfjaskfj

If pasch flips scum who is your next favourite for a lynch Thor?

You. I'm not letting you buy any townpoints whatsoever from a Pasch flip.

EBWOP: Oh, and Brothers Grim: What the fuck happened to your scumread on me?

This is still probably town for involving himself in the discussion when he could be coasting.

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases? I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

This is a good post and while not reading the thread is null for Thor, nothing he has done is towny, least of all putting Pasch At L - 1 which is certainly not what I'd expect from town Thor.

VOTE: Thor

Thor and Darthe and definitely scum. Lying Cat might be. Grim has been so full of confirmation bias the whole game and just has it out for me. Majiffy is ???.

Why Darthe? Why not Grim exactly?

P-edit holy crap

[Thor665]

Well my only good scumread was on your slot and Im certainly not going to waste your time preaching to you about you being scum.

that's a fair point, but it still seems drastically underperforming from you.
Am I wrong?

Annnd, this is still probably scum. This is just like Thor from mini 1393.

You should be specific about how it is the same.

Thor v Grim is terrible in general actually, both propagating shitty arguments over Pasch that don't actually go anywhere. I thought that Grim was very sure Varsoon was town and they certainly didn't antagonize him this way. Suddenly Thor replace in and we get all this crap and "omg Thor needs to pass burden of proficiency or hes scum".

That would tend to indicate they see me as a threat and are scum - but only if I am town...which you are saying I am not.
Clarify?

Grim did in a scumgame of mine recently. I'd link it but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess you dont care.

Not really, it was a question for him.
Let's be serious, you know my attitude towards anyone pointing out your fluctuating reads and calling it a scumtell.

[Thor665]

Blargity-blarg

Weren't we supposed to 'go over reads' today.
I even gave ou some feedback on your initial calls and all I get is this dancing in return which is saying nothing.

[AngryPidgeon]

Took me a minute to understand what the fuck Thor was saying here. What don't understand is how this makes pasch (a good town read of mine) scum. (To be honest, I do not recall any convincing cases from either AP or Grim on pasch, or perhaps I might feel differently).

I have weird feels that Grim is trying to milk towncred from this. I could easily see Thor/Grim/Pasch bussing here out of desperation.

I really don't see why they are so sure about this Pasch read and Grim is making no effort to explain it today. TO the contrary their arguments with Thor feel forced and anti-town.

[Thor665]

Right and suddenly in 992 Thor is ok with just putting Pasch at L - 1 after this scummy herpaderp with Grim.

Because up till then I'd been opposed to it...?

Lets not start this, thanks.

If you are town you know this sort of crap is going to result in a repeat of mykonian's game.

Since she makes up meta on me and tries to lynch me as town - I don't really care.

Then what were you saying? This post is so useless, but I know I was scumreading Thor for propagating crap with Mollie in Patator and that was a crap read as it turned out. sadlkfjaskfj

What?
Go read what she actually asked me that I was answering - and then tell me why this even remotely matters to you.

least of all putting Pasch At L - 1 which is certainly not what I'd expect from town Thor.

Oh my gawd, you till have no concept of my meta and still choose to talk like you do.
I am an open and strong advocate of early L-1 and even preach it in Newbies as the IC.
Derpa-derp AP, this is fething terrible. Why do you do this gak?

[AngryPidgeon]

So you think a lynch should happen before I catch up?

If you really feel this way, why are you placing an L - 1 vote on Pasch you scummy butt???

Guys, we need to lynch Thor today. Varsoon was scum. Thor is still scum. This doesn't get more obvious.

[Majiffy]

No that was mostly hot air so I could get a read on you.

Your beard feels scraggly and town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What is this smurf business...

Being rude is not a scum tell. Being pushy is.

I don't the time nor capacity to respond with all your necessary quotes (since you can't seem to be arsed to find them yourself - you know, yes, I feel it's an obligation of a player to at least try to see all angles of a game, not just base reads on the last bit of it. I expect it of everyone, myself, and you, included). I'm done with my lunch break and will work on this after work.

@Majiffy, if that is the case, then I expect I will not be getting anywhere with Thor, because I don't get anywhere with you either. >:( *sigh* This is fucking frustrating.

P-edit: LET ME POST.

[Majiffy]

Oh and AP could likely be scum so don't get too worked up over him.

[Thor665]

I have weird feels that Grim is trying to milk towncred from this. I could easily see Thor/Grim/Pasch bussing here out of desperation.

I really don't see why they are so sure about this Pasch read and Grim is making no effort to explain it today. TO the contrary their arguments with Thor feel forced and anti-town.

In the same vein, both EspeciallyTheLies and Pasch are not looking to discuss their cases either.
Also, frankly, I haven't heard your case on either Grim or Pasch.
I've asked all of you for them.
Why do you only comment on Grim doing it, even as you yourself do it? What's he doing differently?

[Majiffy]

Being pushy is.

No.

@Majiffy, if that is the case, then I expect I will not be getting anywhere with Thor, because I don't get anywhere with you either. >:( *sigh* This is fucking frustrating.

Don't worry. Both of us as town, scum is probably going to try to self-kill tonight in a pitiful mercy loss.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

BLATENT LIES, THOR. I HAVE DISCUSSED THEM WITH YOU. BUT WHY, I HAVE NO IDEA.

[Majiffy]

Because you like beating your head into a wall.

[Thor665]

What is this smurf business...

Being rude is not a scum tell. Being pushy is.

Are you serious?
I'm pretty sure someone being pushy or a pushover is not going to change depending on their role alignment. You are making a call about my personality ("full of myself") and then acting like I would be more humble and relaxed and not pushy if I had a town PM because, hey, when I get those I don't think I'm God's gift to Mafia.

How does that make sense?

I don't the time nor capacity to respond with all your necessary quotes (since you can't seem to be arsed to find them yourself - you know, yes, I feel it's an obligation of a player to at least try to see all angles of a game, not just base reads on the last bit of it. I expect it of everyone, myself, and you, included). I'm done with my lunch break and will work on this after work.

I am unsure why it is such a problem that I am too lazy to look for your quotes, but it is unreasonable for me to ask you to do the same.
Are we agreeing that being lazy isn't an issue and that town are lazy?
Or are we saying lazy is a scumtell and both of us are scum?
I'm confused.

Oh and AP could likely be scum so don't get too worked up over him.

Are we going to discuss reads *now* then?
Because this feels weak.