[M] Newbie 1440: Maestro's Manic Mafia - DAY 3

[Smudger]

You just are posting to post now. You are getting close to just personal attacks which is pretty uncalled for honestly. Asking questions isn't what this game is about. Uncovering information is. All you are doing is muddying the game. It's not helpful.

Perhaps I missed your question among the avalanche of words you call posts. Care to repeat it?

Honestly you are just coming off as attempting to be all knowing king of awesome here. Perhaps trying to get the "newbs" to listen to you because obviously if you treat people like they are beneath you you have to know what's up right? Get off it. Try maybe one post at a time instead of plastering a wall of garbage that in no way is anyone going to get through it and remember what's on top.

personal attacks, where? the only personal attacks I see developing are in your last post directed towards me, is that the way you honestly play?

As for your response it Confirms One thing you have no case and are rather lost for words as well as a touch of Paranoia. If you cannot discuss the points being made and converse in a manner that would prove you have nothing to hide and are open then the only conclusion that can be drawn is you are scum and cannot answer questions as they will provide proof of the same

try reading something through slowly before reacting to it and putting a case together that has some substance, your attack on me is weak.

The number of times someone posts is not relevant the content of those posts is. I could post a huge wall but I choose not to and to break them down, so that people do not miss questions or the point I am trying to make. The content of my posts are valid, relevant and designed to engage people is discussion.

I would also say that your statement concerning the asking of questions is ill informed and wrong. How else do you engage in finding the information your are talking about without asking questions? My questions are not muddying the game, in fact they are doing the opposite, they allow me to gauge how people play and then put together notes that I can refer back to should someone contradict what they have previously said or in fact conveniently forget what they have said. You see that is the way liars are trapped, they cannot keep their story straight and is in fact the bedrock of any investigation into what is happening or has happened.

As for questions the following posts contain questions to you that you have either not answered or answered but I find that the answers given are not fully covering the questions.

54
60
69

If you have nothing to hide then you would answer questions fully and unconditionally unless you are able to provide a reason why the answer would be detrimental to town, which in the case of the questions I have asked you, I would find surprising if the answers are detrimental to town.

your latest diatribe has convinced me to do this,

VOTE: aphix

[aphix]

Posting again, because 74 was quite honestly what I don't like about smudger, unhelpful. I'm sure someone'll use it against me but I'll admit it was a knee jerk response(Turns out smudger already is) and decided I well go back over everything here right now, and lay out my opinions and pretty much my current case on smudger, it's early, but this game seems to have moved and escalated quite quickly.

Spoiler: @peabody

I'm not sure if I had a scum read on you neccessarily. I didn't like your play. And felt at that time it was a good place for my vote. Since then your posts have seen legitimate and feel have an aim to move the game. You are posts thoughts opinions and reads and engaging other players. Still early but at this time I'd lean town.

In regards to atlas. There is lack of content. I never like the wait now do things later. Especially at this point it's early but there are things going on. Things to comment on. Provide opinions. Thoughts. Yes. Even questions(just for smudger). Currently have a null scum read here.

My vote at this time is because I think he's scum. If it was town detriment I'd probably jump on the splash wagon. But I don't agree with it. The attempt to participate seems real and the confusion genuine. Where as I feel smudger is actively trying to cause problems in this game. If it was a little to stir things up that's one thing. But it's not.

@everyone else, honestly, even if you ignore the smudger spoiler below, iso him and read. All I have is post by post opinion of his iso. You can always come back and read later. It's probably not pretty, and well have to be consumed in small parts I'm sure.

Spoiler: Regards To Smudger

@smudger: How is timing of posts not relevant? They show us lurking. Active lurking. Scum attempting to appear active with lots of posts(For the record I think this is where you fall into.)
Alright. So reread through. I'm going to apologize for stating dodge of questions. I can't find what even caused me to word it this way. His posts still read as evasive. He's reached the point I feel he is spamming the board. Post 35-38. Four posts. Could have easily been a single post and would have taken up less space. 42 he states the reaction to Peabody has merit, but not really. He asks naio that he seems to be contradicting himself and "which is it naio" but then ends saying it's "agreeable to an extent." Some filler with unspecific examples, the whole purpose to tell someone it's a null read. Don't really have to say much about 43 aside from one sentence responses aren't really helpful, and then 45 just to say, "hey look. I read some posts." 48 I could see his reason for jumping on rvs, that he posted on the board without reading anything. Finally explains one small thing I had a problem with, but then goes ahead and then pretends to have no clue what scotpgot is talking about, despite the post being all fence sit, and contradictory when he accused naio of it up in 42. In regards to 54 I guess I'll continue explaining it here. Although I read that as I'm going to have others play the game now, I'll play some later. Post 60 is a lot but still don't get any info. Throws in some keywords and definitions which feel forced like he's trying to appear to help but just reads as patronizing. 61 another "oops forgot to add this." Then we get to 69-73 another wall of text much of which are single lines that could have been more easily read in one post. 69, see above. You disagree with me in regards to how I read posts. That's fine. I'm not going to argue that with you. Same general feeling for the next few paragraphs. Then you declare you are scumhunting. Welp, I declare you are trying to look like you are scumhunting, and throwing in the small little personal attacks for fun. Moving onto 70, honestly this isn't a bad post IMO. You actually declare some opinion without adding any qualifiers for once. And a agree with points made about splash. Though you see scum tell I see genuine struggle to participate in the game. Would need more to go off of. 71, you couldn't really of posted this with 70? Minute apart seems like it is probably pretyped. You add in a prod request. Like much of above seems like you are trying to look town. 72 no complaints about but could have been included with 73 maybe? 73 You say you reapply your post, but I'm pretty sure Peabody was referring to posts 35-38 where you RVSd , answered 'random questions' made some an accusation and then a pointless post. Without a revote. In fact seven posts, including some with finger pointing in before you actually place a vote. Then I think 73 and now 75 are my favorite. Some emotion. Still doesn't read as true. Some play my game how I play it or go home!!! Are we five? Also, I say close to personal attacks. I think your smarter then outright doing one, but you are condescending and patronizing. Examples. 42. 43. You couldn't just ask him to elaborate, have to throw in "that would be helpful" 54 your response with splash is childish. 60 "basically referred to as". A whole lot of stretch where you are saying I disagree with you, so keep explaining. Some assume that because someone disagrees with you they are playing a different game. A threat on splash that you'll get more aggressive. Your snide pot/kettle play there. "I thought we had this discussion." Oh right. You told me I'm wrong so I should believe you. "Theres a good boy." So treating someone like they are a dog is friendly play? Continued use of "filler" or stating that I would consider something else "filler" is some more underhanded jabs and more then likely what I'd also call misrepresentation. Speak for yourself. I'll speak for me, thanks. 73 we have as explained above, I play it right, your wrong. Go home.

Review of the smudger spoiler. He's a town detriment. I feel he is attempting to be active. Some sort of play where he is attempting to place himself is a position of power as the all knowledgeable one by putting other players down as not knowing any better. He has several examples of fence sitting, but accuses people of it. Replies to accusations with what in my book equates to, NO YOUR WRONG. QUIT. Upon read through I really found very little that doesn't read as forced attempt to be town, but sometimes square holes don't fit in round pegs.

Yes, smudger, I can very much admit to having poor communication skills. Reading your posts, you don't have this problem. Which makes me even more concerned with what I read. Your vote and your threats and your snide comments aren't going to make me back down here. Have a nice night.

[aphix]

One last quick one. Replying to 50, why is it filler? Read 58, specifically, 'It looks to me an attempt to be busy without saying anything.' Filler can also be 35, rvs vote outside of rvs. 38. 42. 45. Most of 48. A good portion of 69. I don't see 71 being a huge contribution. 73 as well. Replying to 60. You took us back to RVS when you placed a random vote outside of RVS. Asnwer can be found in 63. "You make an random vote and say some random things. Well. See 62 above." And lastly, 69. Have since replied to first question. Any questions I've asked. 50. Yeah that's it. I don't ask questions. I like posting my opinions. Attempt to discuss things. Ask questions when I want clarification to attempting to get participating. Your requirement in asking questions doesn't exist.

[Smudger]

aphix

none of your post 76 constitutes a case and none of it is relevant to scum hunting or identifying scum. In fact it is exactly what you accuse me of, filler.

Yet again you still are unable to adequately read and comprehend what I am asking you, the content of my questions to others or the reasons behind them. Your feeling that I am a detriment to town is woefully off the mark and I cannot be held in account for your inability to understand one of the main aspects of this game, that of asking questions. How can you express an opinion, which you are fully entitled to do, without responding to or asking questions. It is the basis of human communication.

My vote stands you are scum and have been found out, it is you that is muddying the waters and it is you who is a detriment to town.

now if you would like to continue this debate then by all means feel free and so as your head does not hurt having to read lots of words put together, that you have stated you can not really be bothered reading lets keep this to short one sentence questions and interactions.

I will go first:

why is my vote on you not justified?

[scotpgot]

@Scotpgot

You seem to be slipping by un noticed and having now read your ISO I was wondering what are your current thoughts on those that are active?

In random order, drawn from the ISOs... (I'm sorry if I get pronouns wrong. I'll probably call everyone "he" just because I don't know any better/different.)

Smudger: I get a town feeling. Yes, "aggressive", but not overly-so, in my opinion. It seems to me they're applying pressure, which I like. I like it a lot, actually. My initial reaction to his "in your face" vote (or whatever it was) was sufficiently answered. I kind of philosophically disagree with "asking questions" being the point of the game. I would say, "collect evidence", but I'm not going to base a scum-read on a philosophical difference.

The Acting Method: I could go either way at this point. 7 posts from the IC seems a little bit on the low side. Doesn't provide much fodder for evidence. What it

has

provided so far appear to be three different mistakes: 1) in his IC post about "5 or six games" 2) a mis-reading of Smudger's post and 3) a later, separate mis-reading of Naio's post. (I hope I'm not reading the ISO incorrectly on that. Otherwise - irony, FTW. LOL.)

Naio: Another town-read. Again someone with only 7 posts (and three of them trying to vote for TAM). Gets a scum-read off Peabody and has stuck with it despite kind of being shot down. I think a mafioso would have drifted by now without any support, trying to fit in.

SplashMaster: Scum-read (or maybe I'm just saying that to confirm my random vote? Nah, that doesn't sound like me). In 51 he mentions backing off the Peabody case, which is exactly how I'd imagine scum reacting to lack of support (see: Naio). Also, he mentions "stirring up the hornet's nest", which I understand as "getting things going". But the visual isn't quite right. HIS(?) visual seems to emote confusion and not knowing what to do except running around scared. Not the way I would've expressed that. Finally his dividing us of newbs vs. vets seems counter-productive. Far as I'm concerned, it's town vs. mafia 'til the bitter end.

Peabody: Middle of the road/slightly town read. Also a kind of aggressive style. Lots and lots and LOTS of questions. Again, with all the questions not really providing much content (IMO). But it's still way early.

I'm going to have to start rushing now because I've spent the last hour reading ISOs and need to get ready for work...

Aphix: Scum-read. Argumentative (contrast with "aggressive"). Brought up personal attacks, which seems to me to be a distraction. Although, there are certainly things I agree with in what he says. A policy lynch not necessarily being helpful when there are actual suspicions around. Also, I don't think "asking questions" IS a requirement, as long as content/evidence is being created.

atlasblade: Other than not posting any more recent than two days ago (which I don't like), I can't get a read in four posts.

Ravenspaw: Had to go back and look - it's "Ravenpaw".

[Atlasblade]

Ok sorry for the delay. I know I shoulda been posting a lot more but I not too good at getting reads this early in the game so I'll try to clear some things up

So far I feel that aphix is trying a bit too hard (for a lack of a better word) to seem like town. Essentially most of the post that I've read really all it adds up to is pretty much forcing reactions from mostly smudger . Could also be a play style but who knows?

I'm suspicious of Splashmaster because of this:

I agree with this, although maybe not the vote. I think stirring up the hornets nest early on, whether is being done by town or mafia, is a good way to get the game going.

I personally don't want to cast any votes until Ravenpaw chimes in, then we'll have all the players in the game. I take my votes very seriously!

Alrighty that would be understandable until you posted this later on:

What questions has he dodged? In any case, he clearly has a stance. Let me address his stance for a second...

@ Peabody and Smudger- I'm catching a lot of flak for nibbling at Peabody and then backing off. Bare in mind that this was a fairly early post I made in a game with fairly little content to use. Anyway, you two since then have been digging up dirt on all the players, which I don't think is scummy.

Anyway, on what is the difference between appearing pro-town and being pro-town? Well, I don't really know! I thought I did when I posted that. Its the ultimate crux of Mafia. If I had a good answer I'd be much better at this game!

We should call this game SE vs. Newbies because there is certainly a divide between the two! Smudger and Peabody don't like me, aphix doesn't like smudger, naio doesn't like peabody, and I don't like anyone! I think that, for balance reasons, the scumteam would be comprised of newbies and seasoned players alike, so this can't be the case, though.

Anyway, then we have atlasblade, who has done basically nothing. Few posts, no town reads, no scum reads. Its starting to seem fishy.

VOTE: atlasblade

Essentially what made you vote all of a sudden when you said you wouldnt exactly vote until Ravenpaw posted a few times. I'm pretty curious because you said you take your votes pretty seriously.

Also for me getting reads at that the start of 3 - 4 pages is pretty difficult provided people don't make major mistakes beforehand.

After reading some posts, I feel that Smudger is either town or pulling the wool over our eyes big time (or however you say the phrase)

I still want TAM to post a bit more too.

I pretty much have a Null read on everyone else. I'll probably get more proper reads later on. This is all I have for now.

[The Acting Method]

The Acting Method: I could go either way at this point. 7 posts from the IC seems a little bit on the low side. Doesn't provide much fodder for evidence. What it

has

provided so far appear to be three different mistakes: 1) in his IC post about "5 or six games" 2) a mis-reading of Smudger's post and 3) a later, separate mis-reading of Naio's post. (I hope I'm not reading the ISO incorrectly on that. Otherwise - irony, FTW. LOL.)

Actually no, Naio's post caused my comments on Smudgers post. There was no mis-reading on Naio's post. It was Naio's post that gave me the idea of the issue with Smudger's post. So that's 2 mistakes. (one of which has been explained actually both.)

I've seen IC's post far less and far more.

In any case, right now I'm not seeing what Aphix is talking about in regards to Smudger. I'll have to read his comments again. But for future reference td;lr is your friend. Don't use spoilers if you can help it.

I will be looking at those two and splash closely soon.

[Peabody]

Sorry, prod dodge. I'll be posting content this weekend.

[SplashMaster]

@aphix- I've made a joke about Smudger being aggressive, but I think 74 is looking a bit too deep into it. I doubt anyone would sign up for a newbie game and bring any kind of negative attitude to the table.

@scotpgot- I think you gotta expand your horizons a bit. I can't tell how seriously I should take your urinal based vote in post 3!

Anyway...

So far I feel that aphix is trying a bit too hard (for a lack of a better word) to seem like town.

I feel he [Smudger] is attempting to be active.

...but the forced nature of them seem a little off putting, like he's more interested in APPEARING pro-town than BEING pro town.

Okay, that last one was from me, but the more I think about it, does this argument make any sense? At a certain point, aren't we ALL trying to look town?

Hungry for more atlasblade and TAM posts. At this point, I'm expecting a replacement for Ravenpaw.

[SplashMaster]

whoops double post sorry

I had to go check and yes you are right it does look like the division of players is as you have stated, but this is in no way indicative of all newbie games. your use of the wording "don't like" is fine but I would say suspicious is a better word in fact, in relation to my thoughts on you I am highly suspicious of you. as for the composition of the scum team that is a very interesting observation, why in particular would you say it in the way you have?

The scum team composition theory has no base whatsoever (I haven't really read many newbie games.) To me it seems logical. If both the scum were really bad newbies, or really pro players, the game would be over very, very quickly.

I brought up the division of players with no real agenda of any sort, just an interesting detail I wanted everyone to notice. Anyway, I seem to be caught between identified as a scum or a mentally-impaired townie, running around like a chicken with his head removed. I want to apologize to everyone involved, I'm really trying to learn as I go.

[The Acting Method]

On scum set up composition.

The mod most likely randomized the set up. Meaning that it could be two n00bs or it could be two experienced players. or it could be one of each, you can never be sure in a setup of any game.


Going to look into Aphix and smudger in detail as well as Splash and Peabody.

Though I'd like to see more from those posting less than I am. And from some of those posting more as I don't think I have a solid read on you or you are very forgettable with your posts.

[scotpgot]

@scotpgot- I think you gotta expand your horizons a bit. I can't tell how seriously I should take your urinal based vote in post 3!

The vote in post 3 (at the time) was not serious at all. Just an attempt at keeping with what appears to be tradition for an RVS.

Since then, I've not suspected anyone else enough to change it, while at the same time growing more and more suspicious of you (see post 79), so have kept that vote.

[scotpgot]

In any case, right now I'm not seeing what Aphix is talking about in regards to Smudger. I'll have to read his comments again. But for future reference td;lr is your friend. Don't use spoilers if you can help it.

I will be looking at those two and splash closely soon.

Going to look into Aphix and smudger in detail as well as Splash and Peabody.

*waits patiently*

[Maestro]

Votecount 1.02 - Saturday, October 21st @ 12:38 AM EST

scotpgot -

0

^[L-5]

Atlasblade -

1

^[L-4]

SplashMaster
aphix -

1

^[L-4]

Smudger
Naio -

0

^[L-5]

SplashMaster -

2

^[L-3]

scotpgot, Peabody
Peabody -

1

^[L-4]

Naio
theslimer3 -

1

^[L-4]

The Acting Method
Smudger -

1

^[L-4]

aphix
The Acting Method -

0

^[L-5]

With

[9]

alive it takes

[5]

to Lynch or No Lynch.

theslimer3 replaces Ravenpaw, effective immediately.

Not Voting:

Atlasblade, theslimer3

Deadline is in ... (expired on 2013-11-04 04:02:00)

[theslimer3]

Hai o.o/

[theslimer3]

A quick rqs response:

Okay a few General Housekeeping questions I like to ask:1. What time zone are you in?2. How often do you expect to be on and posting?3. How many games have you played in?4. What is your opinion on Lynch all Lurkers/Liars?5. What side do you prefer playing as?

1. -25 Orbiting earth
2. I'll be on 24/7 posting.
3. This is my first game played.
4. Liars are good. lets keep them. LYNCH ALL LURKERS .
5. Scum. i love being able to tell the truth 100% of the time.
6. Im pretty weird.

[scotpgot]

Thanks for filling in, theslimer3.

[Smudger]

is this hibernating....?

Scot, you are beginning to "ïrk me".

[scotpgot]

Ok.

Why?

[Smudger]

you just are, you are not doing much IMO.

[theslimer3]

I've seen town lie before, and there are benefits to town lying on very very very rare occasions. (As in, not going to happen in a n00b mafia.) But my point was that you didn't answer that when I asked the question and focused on Lurkers.

Town lies all the time. They have to or they'll be NKed. Know where I'm going with this?

Smudger jumping right into an rvs vote is strange.

RVS isn't strange to jump into. It's natural and tradition here.

I agree with Peabody that him getting discussion going in this case isn't indicative of an alignment. I still dislike the aggressiveness.

Every game you'll ever play will have someone being over agressive. Get over such quarrels.

@peabody: as I stated. Literally how they post. If you haven't noticed there is a differece in tone. Word usage. Soemtimes spelling grammatical errors when someone is calm versus stressful. It gives a feeling to their posts.

If you weren't a new player I'd call bullshit on this.

Sorry, prod dodge. I'll be posting content this weekend.

WEEKEND ENDS IN

(expired on 2013-10-28 00:00:00)

you just are, you are not doing much IMO.

No one is. This game isn't quite progressing.

[theslimer3]

I shall properly introduce myself since my companion Ravenpaw has failed to do so.

I am Slimer. I prefer... Well I don't know, I prefer things.
I'm an odd one and I do things in very unorthodox methods. (surprisingly it's a scum tell in all my games, especially as town)
I'm an SE, so if you need help understanding the game or the site, I'm your guy.

Mostly this site revolves activity and your interactions with others as a determine of scum.
So technically you're all scum since you're all bickering and you're all practically lurking about. (sarcasm)
But don't fret, new players means new site meta. Hopefully you can take what you've learned this game and carry it on to teach the site that just because you're busy doesn't mean you're mafia.

Aggressive player.. No, though I am extremely sarcastic and ironic. No need to look out for that, you've probably already seen it in me from my previous post.

As the game progresses I strongly encourage you to not use outside methods to determine scum and respect the bounderies of V/LA players. Also to not abuse such rights. Lurking purposely is very anti-town.


If you have absolutely nothing to say, I suggest you either find something to say to someone, or post a picture of a cat. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

[Smudger]

Is that it? A lot of advice and nothing else?

[theslimer3]

is that it? A rhetorical question and nothing else?

[scotpgot]