Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[waynegg]

No. It doesn't. It means exactly what I said it means. It's like if you're a dog and got put outside on a hot summer day and I tell you to look at the fleas you picked up along the way. That doesn't imply that you asked for the fleas. Just that you picked them up.

You've played with me enough by now to know that I use my vote for more than to just get someone lynched. You were gloating very much, and I figured that was the easiest way to get your attention. Looks like I wasn't wrong.

VOTE: Muffin

[Varsoon]

notice the buddy you picked up along the way

Implies that it is a mutual partnership, rather than one-sided, otherwise wording would be more along the lines of "notice the buddy attempt on you along the way."

doesn't imply any such thing IMO.

Let's use other words in its place to demonstrate this,

"Notice the girlfriend you picked up along the way."
"Notice the partner you picked up along the way."
"Notice the companion you picked up along the way."

Essentially, the clause is calling attention to (using the verb notice) the 'buddy'.
A buddy, as defined by Webster, is "a close friend", and within the context of Mafiascum.net, is a player who has culled favor with you.
The second part of this clause is 'you picked up along the way.'
'you picked up' implies that I made an action of acquiring or 'picking up' this buddy, although 'picked up' usually carries less agency than most other forms of acquiring something. P-EDIT: Understandable, but please recognize how I might read the sentence differently, due to the typically mutual nature of the word 'buddy'. With a dog picking up fleas, you understand that the fleas are parasitic, since that is the nature of a flea.

Regardless, the sentence expresses that I should be aware of the buddy that I've picked up, which indeed implies that I consider another player to be my buddy.

That's not true, though.
No one here is my buddy.

I don't trust any of you.

[waynegg]

Since when is "buddy" a good thing in Mafia. When you use positive terms ~ girlfriend, partner, companion ~ i suppose you could make a case for your view. Let's try some negative terms...

"Notice the herpes you picked up along the way."
"Notice the enemy you picked up along the way."
"Notice the

girlfriend

you picked up along the way."

[Varsoon]

Buddies can be mutual on-site.

In my earlier response, I said that if you wanted to imply a one-sided connection, you might say something along the lines of "Notice the buddying-attempt on you..."

Anyway, I get what you mean, no harm done, just a little confusion on my part for a sec.

I also do this for a living, so it overflows into other things I do, too.

[waynegg]

Regardless, the sentence expresses that I should be aware of the buddy that I've picked up, which indeed implies that I consider another player to be my buddy.

You should be aware of the buddying (but you were oblivious to it); it doesn't imply that you consider someone your buddy (eg same team). You're reading something that wasn't said.

Regardless of this pointlessness ~ you and Pie come off TvT and muffin is buddying you on it.

[Varsoon]

Regardless, the sentence expresses that I should be aware of the buddy that I've picked up, which indeed implies that I consider another player to be my buddy.

You should be aware of the buddying (but you were oblivious to it); it doesn't imply that you consider someone your buddy (eg same team). You're reading something that wasn't said.

Regardless of this pointlessness ~ you and Pie come off TvT and muffin is buddying you on it.

I'm not that oblivious, I just didn't make a huge deal out of it. I think a player can agree with another player without explicitly buddying them, though.

In that regard, though, how do you interpret Pieguyn's interactions with Morph and BRO?

[waynegg]

It looks like someone trying to get a footing that's barely begun.

[waynegg]

*in a game that's barely begu

[Psychlone]

Varsoon town.
Phoneposting so reasons later when I get back to desktop or when nacho gets in here.

[morph the cat]

pedit isolate the muffin on Pie with Varsoon. Varsoon probably caught town with how they've been going on with each other and there's Muffin just eating it up.

Ok, so what I'm seeing, now that I've had something resembling my quota of coffee is that zmuffin went after pieguyn's arguments with pieguyn rather than directly interacting much with varsoon during their altercation.

So, you're thinking wk? I can see reasons for a town player to try to decrease the heat/increase the light.

How would you characterize the similarities/differences in the zmuffin/pieguyn interactions compared to your interactions with varsoon?

[zMuffinMan]

I agree on nacho's townread on pieguy.

for being confused about whether i seriously thought your case on morph was good and that morph needed to defend themselves against it?

what do you think about the exchange with varsoon?

Varsoon, why is your vote on pieguy?

why is this the only question you're asking? you're clearly not reading the thread.

7. pieguyn - trying to figure stuff out
1. BROseidon - Varsoon vote reasons were bad and he should feel bad.

which stuff are you referring to when you say pieguy was trying to figure stuff out? because most of the stuff i remember him trying to figure out wasn't alignment-indicative (is this a serious post? is that a serious post?) and i wouldn't exactly call his exchange with varsoon trying to figure varsoon out

as for BRO, one reason i have him as town is that i didn't mind the reasons for his vote. the attack felt more townish than scummy, really. dunno why you have him as scum for that.

Since when is "buddy" a good thing in Mafia.

you don't know what buddying means if you think defending a town read is buddying.

and you clearly have no idea how to play this game if you think that's a bad thing.

[Varsoon] and Pie come off TvT

how?

[morph the cat]

which stuff are you referring to when you say pieguy was trying to figure stuff out? because most of the stuff i remember him trying to figure out wasn't alignment-indicative (is this a serious post? is that a serious post?) and i wouldn't exactly call his exchange with varsoon trying to figure varsoon out

I was thinking about the whole "hi guys" thing, which I think has taken up way more real estate in the game than it deserves. tbh, I never expected my usual starting post to become as iconic as it has. It used to be that the noteworthy thing about my entrance into a game was not RVS-voting. This game is almost clique-ish due to the number of people who play often together on the player list. Someone relatively new trying to sort through all the rvs-phase posturing and homages to prior games (including your first post) does look pretty town to me.

Something similar happened in a recent newbie game. Kaze replaced in to a scum slot in that game, and spent the majority of his day 1 posts complaining about all the prior games discussion and obscure references. I was the other scum player, and I spent a good chunk of my day 1 adding layers of meta references and obscure in-jokes. pieguyn's efforts to get the not-obviously-off-topic stuff figured out strikes me as a much more town-like reaction.

as for BRO, one reason i have him as town is that i didn't mind the reasons for his vote. the attack felt more townish than scummy, really. dunno why you have him as scum for that.

I figured that once Cabd and I synched, we might put our vote on thezmon, because the post I quoted with some bolding would have drawn my vote if I were playing solo. BRO's voting someone who's on a wagon that meets with my strong approval caught my attention. Town-BRO and I tend to think somewhat alike in the early game. This was especially apparent to me in the Diner game. I'm going to exercise more caution this game, though, because my day 1 scumread of him in Xenogears was still being discussed very late into that game. :/

[zMuffinMan]

pieguyn's efforts to get the not-obviously-off-topic stuff figured out strikes me as a much more town-like reaction.

ok. i disagree that it was not-obviously-off-topic, which is part of the reason i don't like how much apparent confusion there is from him about it. PA's reaction to it is more in line with how i imagined a town player reacting to it

[morph the cat]

pieguyn's efforts to get the not-obviously-off-topic stuff figured out strikes me as a much more town-like reaction.

ok. i disagree that it was not-obviously-off-topic, which is part of the reason i don't like how much apparent confusion there is from him about it. PA's reaction to it is more in line with how i imagined a town player reacting to it

A game I played (and didn't do so well at) a few months ago had a player list of people who had played a lot of games together, most of whom I had never played with before. There were undercurrents in that game that were really difficult for me to figure out, and to tell what was offhand joke, what was light sparring over past games, and what was relevant to the current game. I would probably have had a more successful game if I had questioned some of that stuff rather than making assumptions about what was relevant and what wasn't.

I think having even a little context helps in sorting this kind of stuff.

[waynegg]

pedit isolate the muffin on Pie with Varsoon. Varsoon probably caught town with how they've been going on with each other and there's Muffin just eating it up.

Ok, so what I'm seeing, now that I've had something resembling my quota of coffee is that zmuffin went after pieguyn's arguments with pieguyn rather than directly interacting much with varsoon during their altercation.

So, you're thinking wk? I can see reasons for a town player to try to decrease the heat/increase the light.

How would you characterize the similarities/differences in the zmuffin/pieguyn interactions compared to your interactions with varsoon?

Muffin was fueling the flames to bolster Varsoon's mindset. I pointed out to Varsoon what muffin was doing.

[waynegg]

you don't know what buddying means if you think defending a town read is buddying.

and you clearly have no idea how to play this game if you think that's a bad thing.

Lol!

My weakest point for years was how easily I was buddied. I have tons of intimate knowledge on being buddied as a result. "Defending" a town read isn't what you were doing. You were bolstering Varsoon's argument against Pie without taking a definitive stance, ala voting Pie to echo your sentiment.

It's TvT because of how obstinate both were in their stances and nether stopped to consider one over the other to the point both were tunneling. If one were scum they would have just conceded a small point and deflected onto something else.

[waynegg]

This game is almost clique-ish due to the number of people who play often together on the player list.

[waynegg]

You can put me in your scum list if you want. Won't change my alignment.

Nice angle.

VOTE: Morph

[waynegg]

So true, lol!

[mastin2]

6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd) <- town
8. Psychlone (GuyInFreezer + Nachomamma8) <- mafia
10. thezmon221 <- town
13. zMuffinMan <- mafia

These ones I want elaboration on. (Granted. I can actually maybe see the Psychlone one. But Nacho being Nacho, I'm not going to even go near considering a wagon on him. )

penguin_alien checking in here, antennae twitching, wings flapping in fewer than a dozen posts. mastin2, why vote for the player who is scummy versus the one who's probably scum?

Because I don't want to go 95% sure on you (specifically you) being scum only to later be forced to backtrack when the Ghostlin half of you begins towntelling.

[4] thezmon221 (mastin2, zMuffinMan, Ghostly Penguin, Varsoon)

I feel like between the five names here, there's going to be only one scum total. (Maaaaaybe two, if bussing, but probably only one.) Theoretically could be all-town, yeah, but I don't get that vibe at all.

Who the scum is, hell if I know. Could be thez, could be GP, could be Varsoon. (Don't think it's Varsoon, though.) Don't think it's Muffin at this point, but eh, we'll have to see.

A couple comments by BRO have pinged my radar, so he's a lesser townread than he should be, but I'm liking his overall play right now enough to have him as a townread.
Also, pie's town.

I'm beginning to get worried about this game already. This game's already giving me a slight deja vu vibe from Chosen, in that we have a ton of strong players and everyone here is amazingly good as both scum and town, which gives the scum in them an overall advantage as the town players rip each other to shreds in paranoia. :/ (Ah, well. At least I'm a universal townread, which means short of paranoia coming to bite me in the ass, I'm getting nightkilled within the first three nights, pretty much guaranteeing I won't live 'til lylo. I might end up entirely wrong about my reads, but I'm not going to have to suffer through them. )

Basically am skimming/skipping the Varsoon/pie exchange. I know I shouldn't. Because it could have scum in there. But I just don't feel like sorting those two out in their spew. It seems like something that will become relevant later in the game, but right now is absolutely worthless to look at.

nacho is townreading mastin hard for his #24.

Makes me feel bad that both townreads there are weaker, now. (Not gone, mind you. Just not as strong as they were when I posted that.) And I'm fairly certain the reasoning doesn't hold. Quite frankly, if in my 130+ games, I've never broken the RVS flow as scum, I'd be surprised. (I am town, yes. But I'm concerned about the reasoning behind it.)

Yo, Wayne. I see your Varsoon vote. (And Muffin vote.) Got reads beyond that? Would love to hear anything you've got, even if it's weak.

[mastin2]

Basically, Wayne. I want your stances on everyone, right now.
Varsoon vs. Pie, you think is TvT.
Muffinman, you think is scum.
Morph you...think is scum? (Not exactly clear.)

What else you got?

[morph the cat]

A couple comments by BRO have pinged my radar, so he's a lesser townread than he should be, but I'm liking his overall play right now enough to have him as a townread.

Talk to me about this.

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin was fueling the flames to bolster Varsoon's mindset

... you realise pieguy was the one who

asked

me to do it, right?

without taking a definitive stance, ala voting Pie to echo your sentiment

ok. why do you think i'd switch my vote from a scum read to someone else when the wagon on the scum read is bigger?

[waynegg]

I have muffin scum, BRO maybe scum (he's to envolved early, when he generally lurks the hell out of D1 as town). I have Varsoon and Pie as town. I think you're town unless thezmon flips scum. Morph I'm on the fence about. They come off town, but ffery does have that propensity to awkwardly scumclaim for her own lulz which is keeping me from saying they're town. Everyone else is in a holding pattern while I wait for more posting.

[morph the cat]

So true, lol!

Post 212 makes Cabd very sad. Do you have thoughts about it?