Red Wine Mafia: Game Over

[Pjovek]

Unvote, vote Pjovek

I had a habit of posting weird lyrics in my first post as scum, nobody ever caught me on it. It was like a serial killer's ritual.

Easily the most scummy post in this game

vote Alberto Bono Rompage

Selfmeta(1) on something completely meaningless(2), plus some fearmongering(3) on top because why not and to top it off, a shittily justified(4) jump on an easy wagon(5)

Wow 5 scum. So amaze.

It's totally true and provable. This is a legit vote.

So what if it's true concerning yourself.
You'll note that I never even expressed doubt in that, because it simply does not matter, and I was not talking about that at all.

My point is that it means squat fuckall in regards to my alignment, and you have not shown how it would at all.
I get it, it's hard to prove something that's completely wrong, but you're not even trying. This resignation means you already know the conclusion, but would still like to go there regardless.

I'm feeling a little skittish after our last encounter, but this line of argument in your interaction with ABR rings of town.

That's to be expected.

I find that people want to lynch me 73% more if they have recently witnessed my marvellous and sexually very attractive scumplay.

[The Silver Bard]

About to head out to lunch and then more job searching / work but a couple of things I forgot:

Espeonage makes a rather poor choice for an early day wagon.

Why?

And especially I don't like that he puts me in possible scum, that always makes me suspicious.

Why does putting you in possible scum always make you suspicious?

When I roll town and someone reads me as scum it is either because they misread me or because they are scum. If they misread me it means that I am playing bad or they are playing bad or some combination where both of us are playing bad'ish. So it is quite possible he have misread me, but it is also possible that he is scum making up reads. Reading me as scum makes you appear on my radar, it makes me question your motives.

So you feel that your style of play as town is so "mainstream" for want of a better adjective that you should be easy to read? How does data from games you've played match this expectation?

My playstyle as townie is pretty straightforward and open. I think the way I play as town is the optimal one (obviously, if I didn't I would change it). I hate players who dumb down their townplay just so that they can have an easier game as scum. I am fairly good at catching scum, and I am very often voting (final vote) for scum (I would say 50% of the times, even though that sounds a bit much) in the earlier rounds. Feel free to hold me to this, if I keep missing I should get lycnhed (I will protest it though, but I can't refute the arguement).

In my 8 games on TeamLiquid I have as town:
• Survived to the end one time, winning with town.
• Been nightkilled night 1 by scum two games.
• Been nightkilled by scum lategame after claiming vet (steacked)
• Been lynched in late game after throwing a hissyfit on a player who almost voted with me, but kept insulting me. I told him to fuck off and vote me, I don’t cater to morons.
• Lynched day two when two of the most respected players of the site rolled scum and pulled all their influence in on getting me lynched. I also played a shit shit game and deserved it.

As scum:
• One game nightkilled night 1. Was playing poorly, but might have survived a while, but one of the good townplayers of the site read me easily.
• One game nightkilled night 2. Would 100% have gotten lynched on day 3 if I didn’t get viged.

In my opinion my townplay is far better than my scumplay, because I play such an open game, and have trouble imitating that as scum. IMO you can only be considered a great scumplayer if you are a great townplayer, if you are a shit townplayer then imitating your meta is easy.

I cannot find a player of the name Silver Bard on these TeamLiquid forums.

What is your handle there, dear?

I went for a different name here for a reason. So that will stay a secret Read what you want into that

[Pjovek]

I went for a different name here for a reason. So that will stay a secret Read what you want into that

Well then it is quite pointless to quote your record over there.

[fferyllt]

I'm not afraid of TL meta. ftr I've played there a couple times. Same name.

[The Silver Bard]

About to head out to lunch and then more job searching / work but a couple of things I forgot:

Espeonage makes a rather poor choice for an early day wagon.

Why?

And especially I don't like that he puts me in possible scum, that always makes me suspicious.

Why does putting you in possible scum always make you suspicious?

When I roll town and someone reads me as scum it is either because they misread me or because they are scum. If they misread me it means that I am playing bad or they are playing bad or some combination where both of us are playing bad'ish. So it is quite possible he have misread me, but it is also possible that he is scum making up reads. Reading me as scum makes you appear on my radar, it makes me question your motives.

So you feel that your style of play as town is so "mainstream" for want of a better adjective that you should be easy to read? How does data from games you've played match this expectation?

My playstyle as townie is pretty straightforward and open. I think the way I play as town is the optimal one (obviously, if I didn't I would change it). I hate players who dumb down their townplay just so that they can have an easier game as scum. I am fairly good at catching scum, and I am very often voting (final vote) for scum (I would say 50% of the times, even though that sounds a bit much) in the earlier rounds. Feel free to hold me to this, if I keep missing I should get lycnhed (I will protest it though, but I can't refute the arguement).

In my 8 games on TeamLiquid I have as town:
• Survived to the end one time, winning with town.
• Been nightkilled night 1 by scum two games.
• Been nightkilled by scum lategame after claiming vet (steacked)
• Been lynched in late game after throwing a hissyfit on a player who almost voted with me, but kept insulting me. I told him to fuck off and vote me, I don’t cater to morons.
• Lynched day two when two of the most respected players of the site rolled scum and pulled all their influence in on getting me lynched. I also played a shit shit game and deserved it.

As scum:
• One game nightkilled night 1. Was playing poorly, but might have survived a while, but one of the good townplayers of the site read me easily.
• One game nightkilled night 2. Would 100% have gotten lynched on day 3 if I didn’t get viged.

In my opinion my townplay is far better than my scumplay, because I play such an open game, and have trouble imitating that as scum. IMO you can only be considered a great scumplayer if you are a great townplayer, if you are a shit townplayer then imitating your meta is easy.

I was more curious about the alignments of people who scumread you in the past - if it's actually alignment predictive. In my case, being scumread as town, especially in the early game doesn't correlate that well with the player's alignment, but does seem to correlate (in town players) fairly well with certain methods of scumhunting.

Well it depends on how early on day 1 they scumread me, and how hard they push for my lynch. Also it depends on how good of a player they are, and how good my play have been. I have catched alot of good players who have pushed for me.

If someone have just thrown out a scumaccusation based on one post, like TSO did to me here it isn’t necessary a connection. But it makes me suspicious of them from the get go. If someone keep twisting my words, and keep pushing for my lynch (when I am town) and also is considered a good player they have a high probability of flipping scum.

[Pjovek]

For anybody that actually uses meta, Silver Bard is "Tunkeg" on TeamLiquid mafia.

God bless extensive databases.

[Cabd]

Cabd, what are your thoughts about TSO?

It's freaking me out that you of all people slapped a vote down this early, but that's more about you than him.

[Cabd]

I don't think 'complete failure to scumhunt' is a tell for Cabd either way, especially this early in the game. To be completely honest, Cabd is one of those players I'll probably end up being wary of for the entirety of my existence in this game.

That sucks because you're one of the players in this game I expect to be able to read me.

[Cabd]

Regarding TSO himself, I really don't see the gotcha! in any of his posts. Yes, his attack on the perceived "buddying" we use to sort each other sometimes was annoying, but IIRC people have bitched about it before as both alignments. What makes the way he went about it more likely to come from a scum motive?

[fferyllt]

Regarding TSO himself, I really don't see the gotcha! in any of his posts. Yes, his attack on the perceived "buddying" we use to sort each other sometimes was annoying, but IIRC people have bitched about it before as both alignments. What makes the way he went about it more likely to come from a scum motive?

Given where the "buddying" led in the last game he played with both of us, I though a cut it out sort of reaction was kinda off.

[T S O]

Firstly, Pjovek is just completely Town. Like totally. Get the fuck off him.

ffery, the buddying and paranoia between you and Cabd, as well as being annoying, lead to him being paranoia-lynched d2 and you coasting to a scum win. Is that what you meant when you said that my reaction was off?

[fferyllt]

Firstly, Pjovek is just completely Town. Like totally. Get the fuck off him.

ffery, the buddying and paranoia between you and Cabd, as well as being annoying, lead to him being paranoia-lynched d2 and you coasting to a scum win. Is that what you meant when you said that my reaction was off?

Yep. "cut it out" seems like an anemic reaction if you really think this is buddying.

[T S O]

When did I ever say it was buddying?

[DrCirno]

@Mod: V/LA until Saturday

Yeah. It sucks. I know.
(Please keep the page count low until I come back <3)

[T S O]

I've seen Pjovek scum. This isn't it.

[fferyllt]

When did I ever say it was buddying?

You agreed with Cabd's characterization in post 110, so I used it with scarequotes. "buddying" is not how I'd describe how Cabd and I interact during the early days of a new game.

[Cabd]

Also, Pjo, i expect some lil' dashes for ffery's sake.

[projectmatt]

Unvote

Vote: Albert

[T S O]

When did I ever say it was buddying?

You agreed with Cabd's characterization in post 110, so I used it with scarequotes. "buddying" is not how I'd describe how Cabd and I interact during the early days of a new game.

Cabd said "buddying." you said "buddying." I said buddying. it was the buzzword. in short, I don't want you two doing it, because I feel it's easily manipulable.

[Cabd]

Given that's how I sort her (and vice versa), you're gonna have a rough time telling us to not do that.

[Empire]

Feeling increasingly better about The Silver Bard being town.

That sucks because you're one of the players in this game I expect to be able to read me.

How? We only have one completed game together in which I was town and you were scum and I barely gave your entire slot much thought.

[Pjovek]

Also, Pjo, i expect some lil' dashes for ffery's sake.

I'm not planning on not-really-fake-claiming flavor cop in this game, though.

I'd have a hard time too, considering the amount of flavor.

[Cabd]

Feeling increasingly better about The Silver Bard being town.

That sucks because you're one of the players in this game I expect to be able to read me.

How? We only have one completed game together in which I was town and you were scum and I barely gave your entire slot much thought.

Our skype talks tell me you're decent at cold reading me and we've discussed things about yours and I's play such that I expect you to be able to use that "inside info" to sort me now that it's go time in a game.

[fferyllt]

When did I ever say it was buddying?

You agreed with Cabd's characterization in post 110, so I used it with scarequotes. "buddying" is not how I'd describe how Cabd and I interact during the early days of a new game.

Cabd said "buddying." you said "buddying." I said buddying. it was the buzzword. in short, I don't want you two doing it, because I feel it's easily manipulable.

I'm going to do what I need to do in order to get a read.

[Empire]

I've seen Pjovek scum. This isn't it.

How would you describe Pjovek's scum play?