Open 536: Faith Plus One Game Over! Mafia Win!

[Paschendale]

I don't think I can without outing one of the heads of the hydra and until they're happy to not be anonymous.

Then why should anyone trust you about it?

Grim's 440 is good stuff. Helium loses townpoints.

Guyett's 447: Interesting take on Shos, I like your conclusions on TSO and Helium, disagree about Blueberry (I'm voting for my top suspect. By the time Blueberry was even a factor, Taylor was a serious vote, not RVS anymore.), otherwise I like even the parts I disagree with.

What's antihero doing in this game?

Grim's 464... more votes on Taylor! The votes are so spread out that it looks like we're still in RVS. There's real wagons going on here. If you're the only vote on your target, you best double down in support of that, and comment on the main wagons. "You" in this is everyone, not Grim. I don't like that half of this wagon on Taylor is made up of lurkers.

I'm very sick and can't think straight. I'll try to post something tomorrow.

I hope you feel better soon. I'm just getting over a sickness. It sucks.

also pasch wasn't fuckin scummy in reboot i did not understand that lynch at all. he's scummy here.

Assuming this is EtL, you were scum and you voted for me. I was lynched in that game because I didn't have any clear theories. Sometimes that happens. If anything, I fell into this same trap and townread people for having theories. Specifically you and AP. Of course, thinking that every theory means scum prevents town from ever having ideas, and thus from ever winning. So it goes to whether a theory seems genuine or fake. Or whether not having a theory is genuine or fake. It's ALL motivation.

XScorp's 502: The what now? You think Shos' vote is scummy but you're voting for me? Shos looked (at the time of 429) to be decently town to me. He's providing content. It's a little tunnel-y, but it's a lot better than all the shouting you do. Guyett, as above, makes a good point that's causing me to reconsider the townread, but Shos certainly isn't going to get a strong scumread from me. Your point is nonsense, though, and if you want Shos to defend his vote better, bug him, not me.

[Paschendale]

Updated reads

Town: Grim, N64
Weak Town: XScorp, Guyett
Null: Shos
Lurker: Willwang, Obscurity
Weak Scum: TSO, Pecanpie, Blueberry, Helium
Scum: Taylor

[Grimgroove]

I put a little pressure on him and he freaks out and doesn't try to reach out at all.

Our entire initial discussion was me reaching out and trying to understand your arguments. How is that me freaking out?
After I understood your arguments and saw how bad they really were, I reached out AGAIN in307. I gave you a chance to turn back and you didn't take it.

[Guyett]

I don't think I can without outing one of the heads of the hydra and until they're happy to not be anonymous.

Then why should anyone trust you about it?

You don't have to but it could be very important if either TSO or Taylor get lynched or if we get a result on one of them.

[Grimgroove]

mollie and I, as two rational adults, agreed that we would not unilaterally move the vote. That's why I said what I said. That's it.

You "allowed mollie to move the vote". (post 255
You didn't "ask for mollie to move the vote".

The first hints at mollie wanting to move the vote prior to you. The second would hint at you wanting to move the vote prior to mollie.

Why are you denying this? mollie already stated I was her PoI in 217 and in [pôst]222[/post] (lack of capitalization makes clear it's her).

[helium-3]

I put a little pressure on him and he freaks out and doesn't try to reach out at all.

Our entire initial discussion was me reaching out and trying to understand your arguments. How is that me freaking out?
After I understood your arguments and saw how bad they really were, I reached out AGAIN in307. I gave you a chance to turn back and you didn't take it.

cos I don't consider that a reach out (p307). and no when I first put pressure on you you lashed out.

I am not going to argue with you. we can move forward or not.

the reason I might be doing a 180 is only because melting down over a fucking emoticon is retarded but that is what etl is doing. I find it scum scum scummy scummy. site chat is down and that is how anti and I have been communicating. I am going to pm him tho cos we need to have a discussion (obviously).

[helium-3]

mollie and I, as two rational adults, agreed that we would not unilaterally move the vote. That's why I said what I said. That's it.

You "allowed mollie to move the vote". (post 255
You didn't "ask for mollie to move the vote".

The first hints at mollie wanting to move the vote prior to you. The second would hint at you wanting to move the vote prior to mollie.

Why are you denying this? mollie already stated I was her PoI in 217 and in [pôst]222[/post] (lack of capitalization makes clear it's her).

you really need to drop this.

anti fussed at me for moving my vote all over the place. I told him that I would be more considerate <------ the reason he was saying what he was saying stems from all of that.

now plz drop it

[Grimgroove]

You can consider that part of the argument dropped, but only because I won't be able to prove my point through it adequately enough anyway. But that doesn't make your case on me any less scummy.

I fell for that emo-blackmailing of yours before. "I'll townread you if you townread me". You either think I'm town or not. I know my arguments against you are good ones and you won't convince me optherwise unless you address them properly.

Stop drawing lines in the sand as if you own the entire beach.

[helium-3]

I am not going to give a read without talking to my other head first.

I want to interact with you in a different way so i can get a better feel. you can either do it or not. it is up to you.

[helium-3]

You can consider that part of the argument dropped, but only because I won't be able to prove my point through it adequately enough anyway. But that doesn't make your case on me any less scummy.

I fell for that emo-blackmailing of yours before. "I'll townread you if you townread me". You either think I'm town or not. I know my arguments against you are good ones and you won't convince me optherwise unless you address them properly.

Stop drawing lines in the sand as if you own the entire beach.

-antihero

[Grimgroove]

Off the top of my head:

shos - Nulltown
Taylor - Scum (awful case, hydra inconsistencies that go beyond different opinions)
XScorpion - Town
N64Lord - Nulltown
T S O* - Null
helium-3 - Scum (bad disposition towards me right from the get-go with a bad case. I'm willing to give it another day, I don't know Antihero's meta so it could be that he plays like mollie, where she convinces herself first and foremost and starts seeing what she thinks everywhere. But her hardheadedness doesn't clear her.)
Guyett - Nullscum (really not buying that supposed meta-study he did on me, it's something small but it really pings hard. The other stuff is better.)
Blueberry - Nulltown
Paschendale - Town
willwang123 - Null
pieceofpecanpie - Nulltown
Obscurity - Null

Will do some delving in all those nulls and nulltowns later, because I can't really see my main three scumreads in a team together.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And you say my case is shit. Your top "scum reads" are people suspecting YOU.

[Grimgroove]

Antihero already fruitlessly tried to bring up the OMGUS-argument.
You are not scum because you suspect me. You are scum because you are using lies in order to make other people suspect me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How can an observation possibly be a fucking lie... you are trying to say I fucking made shit up when helium has noticed the same goddamn thing.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's 2 people who have independently noticed a difference in your play and that's "lies"?? Come on.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And I dont give a shit if the entire playerlist thinks you're mith's fuckin gift to town. I suspect you. I think there is something off with your interactions and reactions here. I think that miht make you svum.

[helium-3]

And you say my case is shit. Your top "scum reads" are people suspecting YOU.

guyett

he might really be paying attention

[helium-3]

anti and I are talking right now and 1 of the things that has come up is how nearly every1 is OMGUSing in this game and it makes the game murky and hard to get reads. and I probably need to do a reread through.

groovy kid we came at you quick cos a lot was going on and you were not there. <---- we have explained this. and you have not been dealing with my hard headedness you have been dealing with anti's.

[Grimgroove]

How can an observation possibly be a fucking lie...

By lying about what you observe, obviously.

you are trying to say I fucking made shit up when helium has noticed the same goddamn thing.

I don't think you noticed the same thing about me. Yes, you both brought up meta-arguments against me, but they were not always exactly the same. Should we go over them again?
The lack of tenaciousness?
The overdefensiveness?
Low-hanging fruit picker?
The compliance?
The cooperativeness?
The lack of focus?
The spamposting?
The posturing?
The nervousness?
The cutesy-factor?

Urgh. Just looking at those arguments makes me sad.

Also, those arguments were not formed by Helium and Taylor as independently as you make it seem. Example:

He's also not as tenacious as I've seen him be as town. He's been on the defensive. Being defensive by itself is not a tell, but my observations of grim as town is that he doesn't usually give a shit to defend himself against someone he says he thinks is scum. He just keeps going with his case and his attack. He's not doing that here. He's coming off more compliant and cooperative, discussion-wise, than I've ever seen him be in the past.

guess other people don't think the meta is as bullshitty as you try to make it out to be, groovy kid.

mollie and ETL already agree with me

Before this Antihero never mentioned my overdefensiveness or lack of tenaciousness. He was talking about superficialness, opportunism and nervousness.

It all falls under the same umbrella of "the meta", but you were effectively talking about different aspects of it. And both equally untruthful.

There is something going on here. Either you're both scum, or one of you is scum. Both of you being town is not an option. It's difficult to see who's been malicious and who's just plain stubborn and irrational.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That is he most bullshit conclusion you could possibly come up with grim. Our alignment has nothing to do with helium's and to suggest it does just reeks.

[helium-3]

etl you need to stay in your hydra otherwise it is going to be hard to iso your slot.

[Grimgroove]

You cannot both (especially when considering there's actually four of you) be so irrational. Mastin, the townhunter who's been with me in several games? Antihero, who's seen me play towngames at least twice now? Mollie, who's seen me play as town even more? And you? The odds of the four of you being so so wrong are just not that high, especially given it's me you're talking about, someone you're supposed to know better by now.

Nothing reeks about that argument. Looking for the possibility of associations is a very normal thing to do.

[Taylor]

And you say my case is shit. Your top "scum reads" are people suspecting YOU.

How can an observation possibly be a fucking lie... you are trying to say I fucking made shit up when helium has noticed the same goddamn thing.

That's 2 people who have independently noticed a difference in your play and that's "lies"?? Come on.

And I dont give a shit if the entire playerlist thinks you're mith's fuckin gift to town. I suspect you. I think there is something off with your interactions and reactions here. I think that miht make you svum.

That is he most bullshit conclusion you could possibly come up with grim. Our alignment has nothing to do with helium's and to suggest it does just reeks.

[Taylor]

grim... mastin has been MIA for days and days. I have been begging him to have a conversation with me. I am doing the best i can.

[Grimgroove]

What is your own read on helium?