Newbie 1444 ~ Game Ovah ~ Mafia Win

[Thor665]

I saw that your conclusion was one-sided, and how it did not add any other possibilities.

How did you see this?

I know that you are pointing at my conclusion and claiming there was no consideration prior to that - but what makes you so sure of that belief. Obviouslly a conclusion will state a final belief, but what did I do to showcase that I refused to consider other options?

Let's do this, clearly you "considered other options" before calling me out for this tell, right? I'm guessing one of those other options was "Thor did consider other options" Just tell me how you ruled out that I had - that's all I'm asking.

[Thor665]

hi

Hi, we have 3 days till deadline and stalled wagons.

Your primary goal is to get a read on me and Zipper. If you think one of us is scum vote them asap and say why you think this.
If you think we're both town then start screaming like crazy and try to start an alternate wagon.
Time is of the essence.

[Malakittens]

2.09

With 8 alive it's 5 votes to lynch

Voting for:

*Kytoxid -
*Notscience -
*Cxinlee -
*Zipperflesh - Thor665, Cxinlee, Bulbazak [3] [L-2]
*burn_209 -
*1baldeagle1 - Kytoxid [1]
*Bulbazak -
*Thor665 - Zipperflesh, burn_209, 1baldeagle1 [3] [L-2]

Not voting: Notscience [1]

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2013-11-22 16:12:00)

[1baldeagle1]

No, Thor it doesn't effect my read. Eagles flop was scummy and makes no sense to me. How many more ways do I have to say it? I'm starting to feel like you'll try to twist everything I say to fit into your case.

Do you want to respond to how my flop made no sense? I responded and explained it and you are ignoring it and calling it scummy.

No, Thor it doesn't effect my read. Eagles flop was scummy and makes no sense to me. How many more ways do I have to say it? I'm starting to feel like you'll try to twist everything I say to fit into your case.

Do you think it's possible that Eagle and I are scum together? Because if his flop was so bad as to make him a scum read for you and yet you're still voting me it looks like either you think we are scum buddies or you are hoping to set up a lynch for tomorrow after I flip town.

This sounds a bit true, tbh.

Hmmm, zipper might be a okay lynch. I'll have to think about my read on Thor and zipper.

[notscience]

I want the reasonings behind both wagons before I reread

[cxinlee]

#67

From my perspective you just used the points to conclude that Burn, without adding any other possibilities.

[Thor665]

I want the reasonings behind both wagons before I reread

Short answer;

Zipper thinks I soft pushed the lynch town wagon yesterday and wanted it to go through as a scum plot of evil.

I think Zipper blatantly advanced the lynch town wagon while claimign it was to "pressure" her with a few days left prior to deadline and ignoring the alternate wagon of someone he was calling scum and then disappeared for those days to let the wagon go through as a scum plot of evil.

So now whassup with you?

#67

From my perspective you just used the points to conclude that Burn, without adding any other possibilities.

Clearly when I reached a conclusion I wouldn't advance other possibilities - that's what a conclusion is.
Prior to my conclusion why do you rule out that I didn't consider other possibilities...it certainly seemed to take me a while to reach my conclusion if I just leaped to it immediately, which seems to suggest I was doing some sort of consideration on it, at least that's what I think. What do you think it looks like and why did you decide it wasn't me considering things? I'd really like a clear answer on this, as functionally it's what you're asking me to prove, and yet you seem to be having some issues with proving that you worked it over and ruled it out.

Is that because you worked it over and ruled it out in your head and didn't post every possibility you considered and instead simply posted your conclusion when you reached it?

And if that is true, and what I am content to believe happened, then why do you expect different from me?
And why can't you show different from yourself in that case?

[Kytoxid]

Ugh, I have a headache. I've only partially caught up since my last post, I'll finish it tomorrow. For now though, I'd favour a Zipper lynch much more than a Thor lynch. Since it doesn't look like my vote will be very useful on Eagle.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zipperflesh

Zipper is now at L-1.

Cxinlee

: I liked Micc and got a general town feel from him. Cxinlee hasn't really done much overall, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for his predecessor's sake.

Is there anything in particular that you liked from Micc? I didn't get much of a town vibe from him at the time, and looking back his ISO, nothing really stood out to me.

1baldeagle1

: I've recently come to understand how he thinks a little bit more, and he genuinely looks like he's trying to figure things out, although not effectively. He's probably town.

Hmm. Do you see what he's doing in post 398 then? That's been bugging me this whole time (and it bugged talah too).

I thought it was funny how many people called Zipper town because of his catchup posts. That just goes to show that they really didn't read them.

I don't remember who exactly was making these comments, but if Zipper gets lynched today, do you think his flip, combined with the people that did the above, can be used to narrow down the suspects? Or is this more of a null tell?

I'm just thinking if Zipper flips scum, what are the chances this was used as an easy excuse for his scumbuddy to try to clear him?

His posts are not genuine, rather very calculated and manipulative, meant to look like a lot, but saying very little. He also hasn't had very strong stances, always keeping his options open.

@burn: You are still supporting a Thor lynch. If we do lynch him today and he flips scum, who would you suspect as his scumbuddy? What if he flips town?

[Bulbazak]

I want the reasonings behind both wagons before I reread

Here's my reason for Zipper-scum:

Zipperflesh[/b]: I thought it was funny how many people called Zipper town because of his catchup posts. That just goes to show that they really didn't read them. Many players will actually write off walls as coming from town, regardless of the content, simply because they hold the notion that scum wouldn't put forth the effort. However, that is not the case. Take Zipper's catchup posts, for instance. All they are composed of are a bunch of quotes followed by filler. There's no critical analysis from these posts, just throwaway lines. It's simply put together for appearence's sake, rather than to actually scumhunt. Not to mention his votes have simply been following the general flow of the game, i.e. where the majority was going anyway. Then there is the Thor push, which is probably the most opportunistic thing in this entire game, using the momentum from a dead townie's final reads, which even she wasn't 100% positive on since she interacted with Thor in twilight AS IF HE WAS TOWN. I'm really not seeing the town motivation here.

Is there anything in particular that you liked from Micc?

I thought his scumhunting felt genuine.

Do you see what he's doing in post 398 then?

It looks like he simply assumed wall=town in regards to Burn. The only thing that I find off is his voting Thor based on Thor's use of self-meta. I'd need to check if Eagle thinks self-meta is scummy first, though.

I thought it was funny how many people called Zipper town because of his catchup posts. That just goes to show that they really didn't read them.

I don't remember who exactly was making these comments, but if Zipper gets lynched today, do you think his flip, combined with the people that did the above, can be used to narrow down the suspects? Or is this more of a null tell?

As I've said, there's a tendency for town to associate walls with town posting. I don't think it's indicative of alignment at all.

[Thor665]

If Zipper is scum I am definitely keeping an eye on Burn.
If I die over night people should remember this.

[notscience]

laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Read up and there are too many fucking walls but woo freetime

THE SUPERCOOL TOWNBLOC
me- obvtown as usual
Kyto- Predecessor made me think this slot town by page 2. Page. 2. Did
Bulba- This feels like the bulba I've played with before (townbulba, open 495 for anyone interested). That whole wall schtick was there too.

Plebs of the townbloc-
Cxinlee- Mostly due to his predecessor being pretty town and scumhunting and etc

\o/ no idea
eagle

NOT IN THE TOWNBLOC SO PROBS SCUM
thor- Can't seem to put him in the townbloc
zipper
burn- I saw the same thing about DoL but his ISO bugs me. Activity=wallposts, none=omg no activity.

But I don't claim early intents to hammer so I'll just let you all stick these in your pipes to smoke on

[cxinlee]

Actually the thing is I never came to any conclusion. I simply made an observation and asked for your point of view before I could conclude anything.

Yes, I am aware that my argument is weak.

I thought that if you had considered Burn’s perspective, you would’ve have thought of the possibility that it was the lynch he was upset of rather than the pressuring itself.

And yeah, for some reason by brain is in some weird jam. I have no idea why I’m playing so horribly.

Notscience seems like a fun guy to play with.

[Thor665]

But I don't claim early intents to hammer so I'll just let you all stick these in your pipes to smoke on

You have just made the most boring and safe reads list you could possibly do.
Please let us know which of your 3 scum reads is your biggest scum read and why.

Actually the thing is I never came to any conclusion. I simply made an observation and asked for your point of view before I could conclude anything.

Yes, I am aware that my argument is weak.

Yup. Which makes one wonder why you were still riding it when I was at L-1.

I thought that if you had considered Burn’s perspective, you would’ve have thought of the possibility that it was the lynch he was upset of rather than the pressuring itself.

I thought of a number of reasons he might have said what he said, that's why I asked him many questions to better understand his stance prior to voting him over it.
I always understood that his expressed issue was the lynch - I even used that *as part of my case*. So I am now even more confused about what you're on about.

[Thor665]

You have just made the most boring and safe reads list you could possibly do.
Please let us know which of your 3 scum reads is your biggest scum read and why.

Heck, your scum reads are;

Thor's scum reads...plus Thor.

So I'm really fascinated to see this clarified.

[notscience]

Did you read the name of the tiers?

I'm townhunting. I'm not scumhunting.

I've stated who I think to be town so

[zipperflesh]

#1 I as scum would not try to kill a town Thor N1. He's like an obv choice for protection roles N1, and Thor knows this, so Im not sure why he is allowing that argument to swing people on my lynch.

#2 I AM the reason we had a deathless night. I also think Thor has realized this, which explains why he started on me as soon as day broke, using his day 1 suspicions to help float his case.

#3 I'm almost positive Thor is scum this game, and one of burn or eagle is buddy. Either that or my reads are way off this game....

#4 Lynch me today if you want, I'm almost certainly going to die tonight if you don't, but please don't let scum Thor sweet talk you to a town loss.

[Thor665]

#1 I as scum would not try to kill a town Thor N1. He's like an obv choice for protection roles N1, and Thor knows this, so Im not sure why he is allowing that argument to swing people on my lynch.

People are arguing that I was protected, so they appear to agree with you as far as that goes.

#2 I AM the reason we had a deathless night. I also think Thor has realized this, which explains why he started on me as soon as day broke, using his day 1 suspicions to help float his case.

Will this softclaim become any harder?

[Thor665]

Did you read the name of the tiers?

I'm townhunting. I'm not scumhunting.

I've stated who I think to be town so

Don't really care if you can't decide who is the towniest and the scummiest of your remainder.
Are you seriously telling me you can't?

Also, please define the difference between 'not knowing' about Eagle and 'not in the townbloc' with Zipper, Burn and I.
Because if you are just ruling out town reads than Eagle's placement in your tiers appears to make no sense.
What am I missing?

[zipperflesh]

#1 I as scum would not try to kill a town Thor N1. He's like an obv choice for protection roles N1, and Thor knows this, so Im not sure why he is allowing that argument to swing people on my lynch.

People are arguing that I was protected, so they appear to agree with you as far as that goes.

#2 I AM the reason we had a deathless night. I also think Thor has realized this, which explains why he started on me as soon as day broke, using his day 1 suspicions to help float his case.

Will this softclaim become any harder?

That's exactly what I mean. Why would try to kill you, knowing you'd be the most likely to be protected? It just doesn't grok.

-------

I don't see any reason to claim any harder, best to keep scum guessing if I do end up living through the day. Although, depending on what other roles are out there, those who need to know my role can pretty well guess, and there is no need giving scum any more info about the set up than they have already.

[cxinlee]

Wait zipper you claimed pr?

How can we be sure about it if we can't cc?

[Kytoxid]

It looks like he simply assumed wall=town in regards to Burn. The only thing that I find off is his voting Thor based on Thor's use of self-meta. I'd need to check if Eagle thinks self-meta is scummy first, though.

My issue is how quickly he transitioned from thinking burn was scum to town, based on that one post. If he had thought burn was null, then it might be okay, but scum read to town read went by in a blink.

I don't see any reason to claim any harder, best to keep scum guessing if I do end up living through the day. Although, depending on what other roles are out there, those who need to know my role can pretty well guess, and there is no need giving scum any more info about the set up than they have already.

This is a ridiculous and scummy statement.

With less than 2 days left, you've basically make a claim that can't be proven/disproven without lynching you. If you were actually town, you're already setting up mafia's kill tonight on yourself regardless, so...why bother hiding it? Better to give the town more information now so we can discuss it before the lynch, instead of waiting until you've died along with tonight's NK target.

Beyond that, with no deaths last night and your soft-claim, scum have the setup narrowed down, while we still don't know anything.

Of course, if you were scum, this would make sense because you avoid the risk of being counter-claimed while looking important, and then if you don't get lynched, when you don't die tonight, you can stir up a whole bunch of WIFOM.

[Bulbazak]

If you were actually town, you're already setting up mafia's kill tonight on yourself regardless, so...why bother hiding it?

It is a no-win scenario, but it's better to lynch scum than have a mislynch wasted on yourself, especially if you can ward it off.

Zipper's right. The Thor NK doesn't make sense coming from him.

Unvote

Vote Burn_209

This, however, needs to happen. I'm not voting for either of the 2 wagons today. We have plenty of time to lynch Burn-scum, folks.

[zipperflesh]

My reasoning is this: There are multiple options for my role and each require scum make their next move differently. They also have to decide whether or not I'm just bluffing to draw the night kill. So, by soft claiming I give town a chance at not lynching a power role, but I play a game of WIFOM with a scum team who are already behind by one death.

What info does the town gain by knowing my exact role? Scum on the other hand can easily deduce what other power roles we may have by knowing their roles and my role. It's scummy to suggest I full claim at this point, when that info only helps scum. My town read on kytoxid has suddenly slipped a little.

[notscience]

Kytoxid is town. Zipper, you're most likely town.

Bulba, why burn over thor?

[Bulbazak]

Bulba, why burn over thor?

Because Thor is town, and Burn is scum.