Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]

[fferyllt]

I just remembered, GiF had to replace out of a bunch of games at about this time. I'm going to notch my read back to null for now. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is that alignment indicative.

[hayatoBL]

@fferyllt
Hi. =) Nice to have you here.
I can’t really share the suspicions you have for Grim or GiF, because your arguments were mostly from meta. Maybe when there’s less player around, I could spend more time meta’ing players.

@Tris – Your defence against my attack

Attack#1 Afraid of making enemies

Defence#1-1 There’s no wrong in voting later.
There is. Town wants discussion going on before deadline. Scum wants deadline going on before discussion.

Defence#1-2 Reads are subject to change.
So are votes.


Attack#2 Inconsistent

Defence#2-1 You town-read TNE just after that.
I know but let’s just put it here and let people decide:

...

I think TNE's "I-don't-care" attitude implies he's eithe

r:
1. Scum that still feels safe because even if you think he's scum, you haven't identified yet who his partner is, so lack of links thereof would somehow prove his innocence,
2. He's town, so he wouldn't bother to explain his innocence, or3. He's in a bad mood because of stuff happening iRL.

^a.) I didn't feel like voting because those were just initial reads and still subject to change. It was the first day, I think, so there was no need to rush the lynching.

b.) I don't think I was fence-sitting. TCGW for me was already town, and TNE didn't feel like scum to me. Zipperflesh was my scum vote. True, it was a counter-vote for his vote on me, but I stood by my decision regardless of the two more popular bandwagons. Why would I bother hammering someone I don't think is scum?

His rudeness and I-don't-care attitude on his impending lynch convinced me of his innocence.

c.) I object. True, I have fluff posts, but they're not that many. I hate posting walls; I'm too lazy. And walls of posts don't necessarily mean you're town, anyway. Scum can also post walls to appear innocent and interested in scum-hunting.

[fferyllt]

@fferylltHi. =) Nice to have you here. I can’t really share the suspicions you have for Grim or GiF, because your arguments were mostly from meta. Maybe when there’s less player around, I could spend more time meta’ing players.

Yeah, I've played a ton of games with GiF, and we play as a hydra pretty often. Hydra is a user account that is shared by 2 or more players. They sign up as a single player in games (non-newbie games) and share the role PM, vote, night action, etc. He still fools me as scum sometimes. It would be easier to read his play in this game if I had interacted with him.

[Nobody Special]

Also, I don't offhand recall playing with you-scum, but I am positive I've modded you-scum. And this is it, I'm pretty sure.

I need to go look (but that won't be until late tonight).

Are you thinking of the River City newbie game? He was town in that one. Replaced cAPSLOCK.

I just looked, and yes, that's the game I was thinking of. Since it wasn't "my" game, the memory isn't as clear. Anyway, we've established that I've not played with nor modded scumgrim, so I'll just have to ignore that gut feeling. But he's still scummy to me.


Also, apologies, but my laptop died (fan stopped working) and I've been spending tons of time migrating my stuff from the old drive to the new laptop (and dealing with the abomination that is Windows 8). I should be able to be more present now. But I still need to thoroughly re-read Day One. I've set some time aside for that today.

[Grimgroove]

Also, I don't offhand recall playing with you-scum, but

I am positive

I've modded you-scum. And this is it,

I'm pretty sure

.

I need to go look (but that won't be until late tonight).

You know Nobody Special, I'd love to attribute this to an honest mistake from your part, but the stuff in bold really bugs me.

UNVOTE:

I'm curious about your catch-up though.

Hi fferyllt! Interact with me.

[Grimgroove]

fferyllt, I couldn't help but notice the jump in posts you commented on between 296 and 298.

Could you explain your approach when catching up with this game?

[Grimgroove]

Did you read Day 1 before knowing about The New Earth's flip or after it?

[Grimgroove]

I just remembered, GiF had to replace out of a bunch of games at about this time. I'm going to notch my read back to null for now. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is that alignment indicative.

I can see the replacing out itself being a nulltell given those circumstances, but didn't you say there was something off about his play prior to that? Why does a null action make the scummy stuff go away? Could you expand on "the scummy stuff"? All I see is that GiF pushed a case on someone who flipped town. Considering I did the same thing I'm disinclined to take that as a scumtell.

[fferyllt]

Also, I don't offhand recall playing with you-scum, but

I am positive

I've modded you-scum. And this is it,

I'm pretty sure

.

I need to go look (but that won't be until late tonight).

You know Nobody Special, I'd love to attribute this to an honest mistake from your part, but the stuff in bold really bugs me.

UNVOTE:

I'm curious about your catch-up though.

Hi fferyllt! Interact with me.

Did you miss my 298?

fferyllt, I couldn't help but notice the jump in posts you commented on between 296 and 298.

Could you explain your approach when catching up with this game?

My approach was pretty sleepy. I dozed off before I got completely through day 1 and picked back up this morning. But, that's not the gap you're talking about. The early posts that screamed for IC-type comment caught my eye. I went forward a few posts to see if some got comment, but figured I'd forget about them if I read on before replying. Then I started running into signs of teaching mode in the thread, and didn't stop at any more teaching moments.

I'm going to need to do a 2nd read-through because the section where I was fighting sleep is a little fuzzy.

Mostly I watched the build of the TNE wagon.

Why did you vote him?

[fferyllt]

Did you read Day 1 before knowing about The New Earth's flip or after it?

I knew his flip before I started reading.

I just remembered, GiF had to replace out of a bunch of games at about this time. I'm going to notch my read back to null for now. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is that alignment indicative.

I can see the replacing out itself being a nulltell given those circumstances, but didn't you say there was something off about his play prior to that? Why does a null action make the scummy stuff go away? Could you expand on "the scummy stuff"? All I see is that GiF pushed a case on someone who flipped town. Considering I did the same thing I'm disinclined to take that as a scumtell.

There were signs, but they could be signs of preoccupation or getting overwhelmed with too much going on across the board, which ties into his replacing out of several games at once.

GiF wasn't scumhunting much. His content was mostly IC-related. His vote on tne didn't have the trajectory I'm used to seeing in GiF's votes. If it had been a deadline-driven lynch his play would make a lot more sense to me.

[Grimgroove]

Nobody Special is a scumread. Maybe him being motivated can change that, but I'm very happy with my vote right now.

I could be biased because I was reading day 1 with the knowledge of TNE's alignment, but I really didn't understand the impetus of his wagon.

And, I am surprised GiF voted him. Really surprised. There's other stuff I don't like about GiF's play as well.

NS can't answer for any of that, but this isn't a situation where I'm willing to let a replacement start at null.

If NS is scum, who is his partner?

I didn't realize this question was directed to me, since apart from the quote nothing really hinted at anything I was talking about.

I don't know, I haven't seen any clear links between GiF/NS and any other player. But I also have a scumread on thiscantgowrong for instance. I liked him during day 1, but his Day 2 start felt really scummy to me. Same for Hayato actually.

Small question to Hayato: just so I know you're not buddying me by removing that vote over the meta-study: can you point out the crumbs I left in the game I pointed you to? Like, explain the mechanic behind them? Given that crumb made you change your mind about me, I'm supposing you found it.

[Grimgroove]

fferyllt, if you have read Day 1, my reasons for voting The New Earth should be clear to you, no? I think 158 represents the central element for me, plus The New Earth's negative disposition towards answering questions and simply giving a shit whenever he was here.

[fferyllt]

fferyllt, if you have read Day 1, my reasons for voting The New Earth should be clear to you, no? I think 158 represents the central element for me, plus The New Earth's negative disposition towards answering questions and simply giving a shit whenever he was here.

Lack of sleep during my first read I guess. I didn't remember that post, and I couldn't find it with ctl-f since it didn't quote TNE or mention him by name.

I have some concerns about your TNE vote, but I'll hold off digging into that until I've done a full contextual reread and know for sure that the concerns have a basis.

[fferyllt]

Nobody Special is a scumread. Maybe him being motivated can change that, but I'm very happy with my vote right now.

I could be biased because I was reading day 1 with the knowledge of TNE's alignment, but I really didn't understand the impetus of his wagon.

And, I am surprised GiF voted him. Really surprised. There's other stuff I don't like about GiF's play as well.

NS can't answer for any of that, but this isn't a situation where I'm willing to let a replacement start at null.

If NS is scum, who is his partner?

I didn't realize this question was directed to me, since apart from the quote nothing really hinted at anything I was talking about.

I don't know, I haven't seen any clear links between GiF/NS and any other player. But I also have a scumread on thiscantgowrong for instance. I liked him during day 1, but his Day 2 start felt really scummy to me. Same for Hayato actually.

Small question to Hayato: just so I know you're not buddying me by removing that vote over the meta-study: can you point out the crumbs I left in the game I pointed you to? Like, explain the mechanic behind them? Given that crumb made you change your mind about me, I'm supposing you found it.

It was a springboard from your post. And since you have concerns about GiF/NS, it seemed like a good start to compare notes with you.

[Grimgroove]

Where did all the newbies go?

[Grimgroove]

WBOCampfire1104 4 days 9 hours 24

thiscantgowrong 5 days 23 hours 27

[hayatoBL]

@ Grim

The words 'at ease' 'enforcement' and 'unwarrant' are examples of your trying to soft-claim, I think. At least, that's how I see it. So, still think I was trying to buddy you?

[hayatoBL]

@Grim

Like, why not Tris?

And you didn't answer this one.

[Grimgroove]

I don't you were trying to buddy me anymore :p














But you are wrong . Those are things I truly had put their unintentionally .

It's got something to do with the numbers :p

[Grimgroove]

@Grim

Like, why not Tris?

And you didn't answer this one.

I should have another look at Trisiana. But need to leave computer now.

[hayatoBL]

What numbers? Those words should be it!! =)
Then, I suggest that people start soft-claiming like that. Because I think it would work.

[hayatoBL]

Anyways. How would I have failed your buddy-test?

[Grimgroove]

If you would have pretended to have found them, you would have pretended that you thought I was speaking the truth.
And why would you pretend such a thing if not to become my buddy?

[hayatoBL]

That makes sense. But please explain about the numbers.

[fferyllt]

I've reread the game, and written up a sort of narrative of my reactions to posts as I went along. I was collecting my reactions to Day 1 on a player-by-player basis, so that's how I'm presenting it here. Day 2 I'm going to treat as though I've been here from daybreak, and will make comments on a post by post basis rather than a narrative approach.

Every time I replace into a game lately, I try a different catch-up/report-findings method. If this turns out useful (from my perspective, anyway), I may try it again. I did find that my opinions of players was changing as I went along.

Living

Trisania

post 28 reads like she knows tcgw is town. "don't worry, I'll change my vote."

Comments on "dr crumbs". This has an earnest newbtown feel, and it's kind of early for a wily scum to point something in thread as a heads up to a hypothetical partner. It seems like this would make sense as a late comment if under lynch pressure rather than dropped on page 2 or 3.

49 has a town-paranoia sense to it.

57 has a newbtown Ah Ha feel.

78 bothers me for the same reason that 28 did. It's like she knows tcgw is town.

118 is goodposting.

I don't know why, but the rant in 142 doesn't feel genuine. Could be the word choice, which could be non-native-english. Overall, it feels like the sort of rant that a scum player might direct at their buddy. But, that's a more experienced sort of play than Trisiania has exhibited so far.

good pushback to grimgroove in 163.


thiscantgowrong

He's a waller. puts a lot of thought into the game. assumptions are naive at times. He doesn't like rvs, then votes cervantes in post 14 after zipper's argument.

"But it's been a year and a half since I played last (and that was in person not over a forum) and before that I'd only played a handful of games." - this makes some sense of his post content.

54 has a town outrage feel to it, though scum don't like to be misrepped either. The fact that he got temperish about it has a town feel.

56 is the infamous scum day chat "town tell". It's a reason to think town, but not a strong one. Lately I've been seeing "townslips" like this one show up in new-to-MS scum players. Starting to wonder if experienced scum aren't coaching their newb buddies before the game starts. Or maybe it's newbs who do a fair bit of prereading.

His later posts maintain that earnest feel. Not calling any out individually.


hayatoBL

Montosh

21 Montosh sheeps grimgroove's tcgw vote. (hmm).

post 125 and 126 - this is pretty meticulous. Compare to his catch-up post after replacing in to newbie 1430. He's played 2 more games since that newbie which could account for the change in catch-up approach. Or could be the thread length at the time. Or maybe he's experimenting with different approaches to catch-up.

160 is goodposting. I agree with his vote here.

194 is also a good question to tcgw.

I liked 215 and the argument for scumhunting among newbies as well as experienced players. (I was "newbie" scum in my first MS game and although it wasn't easy, it seemed almost inevitable we'd win because I was severely underestimated.)


WBOCampfire1104

post 25 knows GiF, knows he's an asset, votes him. hmm.

post 42 looks like he's not really reading the thread, since tcgw's second post indicated he has past experience with f2f mafia.

71 marks a tone change of sorts. He's getting pushback and posts in more detail. I dunno why exactly, but this post bothers me a little. I think it's the way he opened the back door on his vote.

Reads list 94 - townreading trisania, scumreading tcgw. I had the idea at this point that a wbo/trisania scumteam miiiiiiight make sense, but wouldn't bank on it.

184 TNE unvote was good. No reason for scum to unvote at that point.

191, 192 In a way I like these posts, but they still bother me a little. They're angry. But there's maybe a flail feel to them.

205 also feels a little flaily but maybe a little town?

The turnaround in 427 and 431 bother me, but t seems more like a town reversal than a scum one.


Grimgroove

says thiscantgowrong isn't as newbie as he acts. not sure about this. like I said, naive assumptions look newb, but tcgw does own some f2f experience so meh.

post 39 is a good newb catch. Would scum-Grimgroove point this up? Maybe. Depends on who he's decided he wants to lynch. Still, townpoint.

Naked vote on TNE. 147 is the explanation. "Got time to talk?" at the end of that post has an odd feel given it's addressed to the person he's voting.

149 is goodposting. The back and forth with TNE feels...I dunno? A little hollow. TNE tends to be easy to mislynch, which is why I was surprised to see both GiF and GrimGroove go after him to the exclusion of other stuff. But, maybe it's knowing he was town that makes me think this should have come off as a bad lynch. :/ TNE's vote on tcgw was pretty bad though.

162 is sorta maybe but kinda not goodposting - trisania has been talking about what she will do, but he has also been getting stuff done. The snappish irritability has a town feel to it, though.


Nobody Special GiF (IC) - 111 distinction between abandoning theory and abandoning reads is goodposting.

120 - tne probscum is not goodposting. He never does make a strong case for tne-scum. He spends more time back-and-forth with Grimgroove than in efforts to sort the person he votes.

Dead

thenewearth, Vanilla Town, lynched Day 1
138 was a particularly town-soundng post from TNE. But, really all his posts had a sort of fuck you I'm town deal with it feel to them.


zipperflesh, Vanilla Town, killed Night 1

Zipper voted trisania in 85. hmm.

176 and earlier indicates preference for wdo wagon.

^^ This ties into that vibe I had about a WDO/trisania connection. The kill could point to wdo as well?