Mini 1521: The Fall - Game Over

[emogirl123]

drama

[Jake from State Farm]

Damn my 1 townread just did the most anti-town thing ever. List reads =bad

Guess I'm back to square one, except hop is still scum so I'm good with my vote where it's at.

We could argue about the merits of posting reads but lets not it is pointless. Instead lets talk about why you think me posting a list of reads is related to my alignment in such a strong way. Go.

Read the post right above the one I'm quoting

[Slandaar]

My theory is read lists=good. As town I follow my theory and post read lists because they are good as scum I do it too because I do it as town.

Somehow though this is related to my alignment

???

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok so accordion to you it's a null tell but I look at the act as anti-town and I can't town read someone doing something anti-town. So you will just be null to slightly scummy and I'll keep an eye on you. Mmkay?

[Jake from State Farm]

Lol phone fail.

[Slandaar]

Uh

So, in this game I make 2 read lists on D1;
#1
#2

I was town.

How is posting read lists related to my alignment Jake?

[Jake from State Farm]

It's related because the act itself is scummy. You did it before as town? Congrats you have a meta of doing anti-town things as town not surprising cause everyone on this site seems to do anti-town things as town also.

I had a gut town read on you and now I don't. This just means you will have to prove yourself to me, which you haven't yet.

[Jake from State Farm]

mod, can we get a replacement for Peregeine? 5 days without posting definitely exceeds your rules on activity.

[Slandaar]

It's related because the act itself is scummy.

If I am scum and post a list it doesn't help me. None of the negative effects people ever list occur when scum post the read list. You say its scummy, what am I gaining by doing it except playing to my town meta?

[Jake from State Farm]

wait, are you saying you only do list reads as town? cause if so you are violating site rules with regards to trust tells. So the fact that you do list reads can't be used to prove squat.

I also don't give a rats ass if you always do it as town, the act itself is scummy to ME and that's all that matters. If you want to be butt hurt that i don't think you are town anymore, that's your prerogative.

List reads are anti town because they are 1. An incredible waste of time which could be better spent scum hunting, 2. they don't show examples of scum hunting which you should be doing if you are town. 3. if you happen to be town they give scum more information and since they already have the advantage, it's incredibly stupid to give them more. 4. If you happen to be scum it gives the impression that you are town cause idiots townies ooh and ahh at people who do list reads and immediately assume they are town. (Lost a few games because of this very thing, I believe even one of the games on this account)

[Jake from State Farm]

and going through your games i just remember who you are. Yeah i'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game cause you're a punk

[Jake from State Farm]

no to mention I have just found a game where you did list reads as scum so you can't use the fact you did list reads as a town tell anymore.

[Slandaar]

wait, are you saying you only do list reads as town? cause if so you are violating site rules with regards to trust tells. So the fact that you do list reads can't be used to prove squat.

Actually in that scenario it proves I am town because I only ever do them as town.

I did say this though;

My theory is read lists=good. As town I follow my theory and post read lists because they are good

as scum I do it too because I do it as town.

no to mention I have just found a game where you did list reads as scum so you can't use the fact you did list reads as a town tell anymore.

I never said it was a towntell. The point is it is a complete nulltell.

I also don't give a rats ass if you always do it as town, the act itself is scummy to ME and that's all that matters.

But it doesn't change the probability of me being town or scum because I always do it... so no. You are trying to suggest I am scummy for my theory which I clearly held before the game began before I had a pm which means it's completely irrelevant to my alignment.

List reads are anti town because they are 1. An incredible waste of time which could be better spent scum hunting, 2. they don't show examples of scum hunting which you should be doing if you are town. 3. if you happen to be town they give scum more information and since they already have the advantage, it's incredibly stupid to give them more. 4. If you happen to be scum it gives the impression that you are town cause idiots townies ooh and ahh at people who do list reads and immediately assume they are town. (Lost a few games because of this very thing, I believe even one of the games on this account)

Your points are very flimsy.

I die N1 very often as town so I post them in the hopes town will actually listen as I will never have a chance at a later point to post my thoughts. I can then think about the situations and reasoning when I don't die. That alone bypasses everything you just said.

and going through your games i just remember who you are. Yeah i'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game cause you're a punk

VOTE: Jake

Jakes scum, he started off OK but his content never really existed and since the hopsy stuff on page 1 hasn't done anything till now which is just ridiculously bad. I explained multiple times that actually what he said doesn't apply (in different ways) but he obviously isn't actually trying to read people and is just taking the easy path of 'anti town is scum' when the two are completely different things. (this is ignoring the fact posting read lists isn't anti town in the first place)

[Jake from State Farm]

shocker

[Alduskkel]

I would like to point out that about a third of the playerlist is due for a prod or replacement. :/

[Slandaar]

Yeah you knew it was coming hence the discrediting act prior. It was quite obvious.

[The-Duck]

The-Duck, what have I misrepresented about you? Also on votes =/= pressure here is what I'm talking about. Kind of my fault but I was using pressure to mean two things, let's seperate them as danger and pressure. Amend my original statement votes=/=danger and votes have no relationship to pressure.

You saying I'm grilling the person under the most pressure
Saying I'm questioning people about opinion on RVS
Saying I'm reaching in my case on Emo (without explaining what or why it is reaching)
So basically everything you have said what made me scummy in your eyes.

Hint: It's not only because grey is defending alduskkel by attacking someone weak like yiley.

I'm attacking Yiley because I am suspicious of him, notice how I've been working on him most of the game, that being said, suspicion is waning, just want to see how competent he is. I have ignored your Ald case so far because it is just tunneling.

This statement seems to be false as well, unless stating once that he's scum with hopkirk and then pretty much ignoring him after that is "working on him"

I'd say we lynch him today, if he's scum,I'm very happy, if he isn't I won't oppose it if you want me lynched.

Slandaar

, you have Grey as a somewhat town read, care to explain where it's coming from, because I don't see it.

If he's not voting me he's not on my wagon.

What exactly do you want me to say? I've already responded to your case.

I'm not voting you because Grey is quite a lot worse, not because I think you are town

[PeregrineV]

Prod received. Sorry Thanksgiving and all. But, I'm back to work so will catch up today.

[Hopkirk]

@Jake: I don’t see how you are even trying to argue that giving a list of what you think everyone in the game is +why, is anti-town.

It’s better for the town if we know what other people’s reads are- we can miss stuff and coordinate- you can’t honestly say that keeping reasons for reads/scum reads secret is good.

“Your vote on me for saying that is exactly what I'd expect from scum”: Aka I’m scum for voting you.


“An incredible waste of time which could be better spent scum hunting,”: Helping coordinate+share information/reads is good. It’s not a waste of time compared to your kind of “x is scum but I’m not saying why” garbage which is totally uselss.

“they don't show examples of scum hunting which you should be doing if you are town.”: Lists should contain why each of those reads are as they are so this point is just wrong.

“if you happen to be town they give scum more information and since they already have the advantage, it's incredibly stupid to give them more.” So it’s okay for other members of the town not to know anything. The scum know who is scum already so sharing reads and reasons is benefiting the town, not the scum.

“If you happen to be scum it gives the impression that you are town cause idiots townies ooh and ahh at people who do list reads and immediately assume they are town.”: This is directly challenging the rest of what you’ve said.

You even have the audacity to say that it stops scum hunting/wastes time when you yourself have done no effective shing…yeah

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake: I don’t see how you are even trying to argue that giving a list of what you think everyone in the game is +why, is anti-town.

Doesn't an argument usually happen when 2 people have a difference in opinion? Slandaar has meta that supports him liking to make list reads. I have meta that supports that i don't like list reads. So anyone who uses lists immediately loses town cred with me, which is what happened with slandaar. he wants to get all mad and vote me i don't really give a shit.

t’s better for the town if we know what other people’s reads are- we can miss stuff and coordinate- you can’t honestly say that keeping reasons for reads/scum reads secret is good.

it's actually better for scum. Hand them a list of unified town reads so they know where they stand, so they know who people is scum (to leave alive and mislynch) and they know who people think are town (so they can take them out)

Scum already have the advantage, the momenet people start making lists and making certain people obv town, the moment those people start dying.

Thanks but No thanks.

It’s not a waste of time compared to your kind of “x is scum but I’m not saying why”

1. I disagree
2. I have already said why i think you are scum and I even added to it. Why the misrep?

Lists should contain why each of those reads are as they are so this point is just wrong.

and did slandaar's post do this? no so this actually proves my point. had he went in depth and explained each read maybe I let it slide, but he didn't. Thanks for proving me right on this one. I appreciate it.

So it’s okay for other members of the town not to know anything. The scum know who is scum already so sharing reads and reasons is benefiting the town, not the scum

The only way we know anything is to develop our own reads (not sheep others) and lynch who we think are scum. Scum knows who scum is, and they also know who town is. Scum win by manipulating town. What is the best way to do that? Kill all the obv town players and leave the lynch bait alive. Now what is the best way for this to happen? by us telling them who we think is town and who we think is scum. List reads help scum it doesn't help me. Slandaar's reads only help me when he dies and flips town, but even then I take them with a grain of salt cause he has no additional information. Just his own opinion, and my opinion > anyone else's opinion.

This is directly challenging the rest of what you’ve said.

no it doesn't

You even have the audacity to say that it stops scum hunting/wastes time when you yourself have done no effective shing…yeah

bullshit, cause I have caught scum already. In the mean time I am watching interactions and hopefully I will find your partners.

[Hopkirk]

So your opinion is that saying who you think is scum + why Is scummy…wow.

The town being random chaos with nobody saying why they think anything or whom they think is scum helps the scum. Discussion of this is…most of the game. Are you saying playing mafia helps the scum.

“I disagree”: Not giving reasons for your reads helps promote mislynches.
“I have already said why i think you are scum and I even added to it. Why the misrep?”: Want to make a case against me here then as opposed to various poor comments that have been dismissed due to uselessness.

Fully explained lists are the best ones (slandaar want to do this?). Normal lists can however provide a bit i.e. how are they worse than nothing?

People can miss scummy things. This is why I think people should make cases and explain votes as that gets people lynched. Town discussion of who is scum + why is a good thing/central to the whole thing.

Yes it does as you just said it’s a scummy thing then you say doing a “scummy thing” is generally considered a town thing to do/with reason.

You haven’t found any scum bc you’ve been (lightly) saying a couple of random unsupported things about me, not even trying to get me lynched, and nothing else. Aka nothing of any value whatsoever. You have not been looking for scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

So your opinion is that saying who you think is scum + why Is scummy…wow.

where are you getting this from? I never said nor even implied I thought this. In fact this is essentially what I am doing. I said who I think is scum and why.

The town being random chaos with nobody saying why they think anything or whom they think is scum helps the scum. Discussion of this is…most of the game. Are you saying playing mafia helps the scum.

Are you not reading my posts? Just cause I am against list reads doesn't mean I want people to stop looking for scum.

Not giving reasons for your reads helps promote mislynches.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but if YOU honestly believe this your issue should be with slandaar and not me, since I have given reasons for my read on you and slandaar has not given reasons for almost all of his reads... just saying. Also if we are being technical here, you are essentially guilty of this as well. You are voting me without giving reasons other then you disagree with my opinion about list reads.

Want to make a case against me

I already did. Post 87 and then I added 371. Voting me because I don't share your opinion. Want more? How about when my activity tapered off, so did yours. You could have taken advantage of that time to go on the agressive with someone you thought was scum but you didn't. None of that reads town to me.

Fully explained lists are the best ones (slandaar want to do this?). Normal lists can however provide a bit i.e. how are they worse than nothing

we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this list read thing. You aren't going to change my mind and it's clearly obvious I am not going to change yours.

People can miss scummy things. This is why I think people should make cases and explain votes as that gets people lynched. Town discussion of who is scum + why is a good thing/central to the whole thing.

I agree with this, whenever possible somebody should absolutely be able to make a case for their scum read, making a case on their scum read =/= making a list of reads. Notice Slandaar never made a case for jklm and he really hasn't made a case for me. His case on me is essentially "I'm mad that jake makes so much fucking sense right now that I need to discredit him somehow"

You haven’t found any scum bc you’ve been (lightly) saying a couple of random unsupported things about me, not even trying to get me lynched, and nothing else. Aka nothing of any value whatsoever. You have not been looking for scum.

going to cover this in another post. hang tight

[Jake from State Farm]

ok so this

You haven’t found any scum bc you’ve been (lightly) saying a couple of random unsupported things about me, not even trying to get me lynched, and nothing else. Aka nothing of any value whatsoever. You have not been looking for scum.

My case on you is essentially the following

his reaction to my joke was bad

I also added "Instead of ignoring my vote which was just an elaborate way for me to rvs someone, you try to immediately do damage control. you looked nervous and nervous to me = scum"

here is where this happend

his is a fallacy as you are basing your conclusions with an argument that can only be there because of your conclusions. It's the same as saying "you are scum because you're scum". It's poor circular logic at best.

him attacking a person who didn't want to rvs is bad

you do that here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5483220

What emogirl did was essentially a reaction test that I have seen others do in the past, your reaction and attacking her for not RVS'ing is what I'd expect to come from scum looking for an easy target, emo made herself an easy target on purpose.

I added 371. Voting me because I don't share your opinion.

you do that here - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5494212

You don't give any reason at all for your vote except leaving it up to interpretation.

[Jake from State Farm]

oh and you say that I am not trying to get you lynched?

post 187 and 338 directly contradict that.

the time in between those 2 posts I wasn't really playing the game because of Thanksgiving.

[Hopkirk]

If you think making a list of who is scum/why is anti-town you’re saying it’s scummy as you seem to also deny.

“Just cause I am against list reads doesn't mean I want people to stop looking for scum”
“it's actually better for scum. Hand them a list of unified town reads so they know where they stand”

You think it’s good for scum to know people’s scum reads and don’t…ok.
“It’s not a waste of time compared to your kind of “x is scum but I’m not saying why”
“I disagree” (you)
You then change your mind on this.
“we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this list read thing. You aren't going to change my mind and it's clearly obvious I am not going to change yours.”: If you think I’m scum then what I’m saying should be scum motivated rather an opinion you disagree with.
Scumreads are generally given WITH reasons in read lists. Your opposition to giving a list of reasoned reads (not what slandaar was doing) is scummy.
Your case addressed:
“his reaction to my joke was bad”: Seriously what kind of fool interprets what I was saying as serious when it’s said IN DIRECT RESPONSE to joke. Work on looking at context.
“him attacking a person who didn't want to rvs is bad”: I’ve fully explained it wasn’t just this but your case here seems to be because we disagree about emo’s position being scummy-which I think it is. Not a reaction test but a scummy play.
“I added 371. Voting me because I don't share your opinion.”: Consider the emo thing. THIS IS YOUR INTIRE CASE. I on the other hand dislike your complete lack of doing any scum hunting and poor reasoning/opinions. Your opinions are scum motivated.
You don’t follow up with any serious attempt at a lynch because…you know you have no case and are just giving the manic ranting of the scum in the corner.