Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]

[Trisania]

If he's null, then what are your reads on me and SD?

[fferyllt]

Go town!

[Trisania]

Fferyllt's ghost!

I think I know why you died....

[WBOCampfire1104]

If he's null, then what are your reads on me and SD?

I think you're town, I don't know. Hayato is a slightly leaning scum, and I have to hear more from SD. There's 5 people left but it feels like 3.

[WBOCampfire1104]

Go town!

WOOP WOOP Whovian

and

Faller!

Why did he die, tris? He makes the good walls, I can say that.

[hayatoBL]

Hi fake cop. I’m THE cop.

1st Night investigation – Cervantes => innocent
2nd Night investigation – SD => innocent

SD is confirmed town, WBO is confirmed scum. I’m going to start with ISOing WBO for more info. But for now, I’m thinking a WBO-Grim team makes more sense, unless WBO-Tris team could have guessed Grim is either VT or Doc.

VOTE: WBOCampfire1104

I’ll make more substantial post on the morrow.

[SafetyDance]

I'm VT. Wait for everyone else to come on and claim first, though have to say whilst WBO's claim doesn't seem too bad (claiming straight away is good), since I'm town a Tris-Hayato team doesn't make a lick of sense based on the other days interactions and the NK + suggests Grim. That would be some major tunnelling on each other. Back to re-reading I guess.

Oh ok then lol. Still need to re-read but there's the 1v1. Makes it easier, tomorrow too if we survive.

Initial read of the WBO claim sounded like he was coached. I don't think I've ever seen an investigation result on the night-killed town ever be from the real doc, least on this site.

Hay, in your last sentence, that scenario you suggested, what else but town could Grim be if it's a Tris-WBO team?

[SafetyDance]

Oh yeah, did any of you two breadcrumb?

Answering some stuff from yesterday:

Spoiler: Trisania

@SD:
I'm pretty sure the only time I was "speculating" about roles was when I jumped to the conclusion that Grim was crumbing. I've already said it was an honest mistake, and didn't know it was rolefishing.

You keep bringing it up and reminding us. 521 was the latest, that's well into the game. You have made it into a constant discussion point.

I didn't follow the TNE wagon. I don't understand why you're saying my read on him was bad. He was being town to me. Just because you don't agree with it

doesn't mean I'm town

.

Freudian slip here? I never said you wagoned TNE, you were suspicious of him and then you called him town when pressured almost straight after which was why it was a very dodgy read.

As Fery pointed out, your Zipper vote at the time was for very shitty reasoning, and explanation after the fact doesn't change that.

Also, I'm not really just jumping on wagons. I initially voted for tcgw, true, but I considered his defenses and unvoted him.

Lastly, I didn't vote for NS just because it was a bandwagon. It just happened that Grim voted for him first.

And all this does is make you appear far more defensive than you need to. TCGW, Cervantes, NS... 3/4 of your votes were adding to wagons. That's fact.

Spoiler: Grimgroove

SafetyDance, what do you mean with Trisiana's read on TNE being bad? What was bad about it?

Answered that.

I get the feeling you're just echoing what Hayato has said about Trisiana, but see little of your own reasoning behind it. Most of what you mentioned are newbtells rather than scumtells.

Well that's your opinion, but I'm not going to start ignoring the newbies in a newbie game. That would be rather limiting. As to echoing, disagree obviously, they are my own thoughts.

Why are Hayato and WBO definitely town?

Because Hayato was giving off reads confidently and his thought process was logical, whereas WBO was acting like (chaotic) town who was comfortable in his alignment and showed he did have reads, which doesn't read like newb-scum I've encountered before.

Wrong about one of them but that's hindsight for you.

And if you've read the topic you would KNOW the Trisiana vote is not going to go anywhere right now. Why did you feel the need to put that vote down after all?

See this is just an example of what I was saying about Grim appearing to be more concerned with his image. He acts condescendingly to belittle my vote, but for what gain? Why shouldn't I put my vote in play?

Your standard MO this game has been to just attack the other players in the guise of "hunting". Your "dance" with Hayato lasted a whole five posts before you moved on. It just leaves the impression you've got ulterior motives, leaving your options open by having no fixed reads.

[WBOCampfire1104]

Hi fake cop. I’m THE cop.

1st Night investigation – Cervantes => innocent
2nd Night investigation – SD => innocent

SD is confirmed town, WBO is confirmed scum. I’m going to start with ISOing WBO for more info. But for now, I’m thinking a WBO-Grim team makes more sense, unless WBO-Tris team could have guessed Grim is either VT or Doc.

VOTE: WBOCampfire1104

I’ll make more substantial post on the morrow.

OMGUS! LIES! This claim is very rusty. I swear to God that I am your cop. If there is a way to post my PM here, tell me. Why did you investigate the way you did?
Because of your fakeclaim,
VOTE: hayatoBL
BTW, never trust smilies.

[WBOCampfire1104]

Why am I confirmed scum? Here are the roles:
WBO - Cop
hayato - Scum
Grim - I got the PM, so he's town, and his breadcrumbing may actually indicate he is doctor. Then again, that cop thing - wait, oh yeah, who said that? hayato. Hayato LIES.
SD & Tris - Either VT's or Scum. I need to see more from SD.

With Matrix6 in mind, I'm cop, so there is either just VT's and norm scum or a Doctor and a RB.

Considering how religious I am, I would not put a lie upon God. Hayato jumps in and says, Me cop, WBO lie, he scum. And made up convenient investigations. If you lynch me, you have a 3/8 chance of winning. If you lynch hayato, scum will probs kill me, and it will be down to a few smarties.

[Trisania]

Hi, I am your Doc. I acted sort of scummy to survive. Why else would scum not kill me?

N1 - Protected Grim. He wasn't even the target.
N2 - Protected fferyllt. She died. I was obviously roleblocked.

Sorry for the little stunt I did back at D1, Grim, it was a stupid mistake. A stupid attempt at redirection.

[Grimgroove]

First thing:

This is LyLo: If we don"t lynch scum today, we lose.

I can see how WBO and Hayato are already voting, but all others need to wait.

I still need to catch up ind epth, but my gut tells me WBO is the one speaking the truth. His turn-around makes sense and feels the most genuine, not only because the turn-around is about me.

My current feeling is a Hayato - SafetyDance scumteam. Will need to look at ISOs.

[WBOCampfire1104]

I'm not sure about Tris' doc-claim. But if she said it was safe to claim, she was either rolefishing as Scum or Town. I think Scum wouldn't have followed with what would have been a fakeclaim. On gut feels, I think SD is scum (TCGW was always nervous), but i need to see more SD action.

[WBOCampfire1104]

First thing:

This is LyLo: If we don"t lynch scum today, we lose.

I can see how WBO and Hayato are already voting, but all others need to wait.

I still need to catch up ind epth, but my gut tells me WBO is the one speaking the truth. His turn-around makes sense and feels the most genuine, not only because the turn-around is about me.

My current feeling is a Hayato - SafetyDance scumteam. Will need to look at ISOs.

If Tris is truthful (I think), then she might protect and drag to D4, with 4 alive. But we would eventually lose.

[Trisania]

If only a mafia goon is lynched today and this drags on, I'll be killed first so the roleblocker won't have a hard time killing the cop.

[WBOCampfire1104]

Not what I was thinking, but also right

[Trisania]

Scratch that. Considering what happened to fferyllt, my protection doesn't matter. Cop still dies. :/

[Trisania]

What I meant to say is:
If roleblocker gets lynched, mafia goon will kill me because he won't be able to kill the cop because of my protection.

If mafia goon dies, roleblocker will obviously go for the cop and kill him despite my protection.

[Grimgroove]

The only thing that matters is that we can't mislynch.

I'm pretty sold on WBO being the real cop, at least from what I've read of this day. His strong convictino I was scum the previous day looked so genuine, and his complete turn-around today is explained by his investigation.

Hayato's posts look a lot better at first glance, but that's because he put more thought intyo them, or at least that's the way it looks like. WBO looks far more relaxed.
After WBO's claim scum had no choice but to counterclaim, if they didn't they'd be sitting here with two confirmed towns and only one possible mislynch.

Right now I'm thinking SafetyDance is the second culprit, for already trying toc ast suspicion on me. Talking about WBO having been coached is one of those nudges in my direction of which I can't say I like them very much.

Trisiana's doc-claim shouldn't be taken at face value. Given the matrix, after a cop-claim, scum knows which set-up we're playing in. When they're both goons, they know there's not going to be a doctor in the game, and thus can safely claim him without a counterclaim.

But the rest of Trisiana's game looked pro-town enough. And the fact she thought I was crumbing a doctor when I wasn't would be explained by her being the doctor herself. It explains the focus and her calling me out.

There's a chance I'm being played by WBO and/or Trisiana. Not a thought I enjoy, so I'll go over all ISOs before deciding. Going to take a look at Hayato's stance vis-à-vis fferyllt during the previous day especially.

[Trisania]

I did not expect WBO to be the cop. His D2 performance was so random I thought he was a bit crazy.

I didn't expect him to claim, either.

[Grimgroove]

His claim is also the least scummy one. He forced Hayato into the scenario where there is a cop.

Imagine scum-WBO at the start of this dayphase. He has no idea of knowing that there actually is a cop in this set-up. In case he's wrong, and given the VT-only flips, chances were both the bulletproof town and the jailkeeper would be saying he's lying, which would mean certaind oom for him. Don't think scum would place a wager like that.

Hayato's claim is very responsive and thus less genuine.

[SafetyDance]

Well that's good news. I now know who's lying out of WBO/Hayato.

Good news too Tris, congrats you're cleared. There's no setup now where you can be scum. Which means the game is literally in your hands, it doesn't matter who dies tomorrow night if we get that far, the possible teams are now known.

It's Grim/WBO v SD/Hay.

[Grimgroove]

Good news too Tris, congrats you're cleared. There's no setup now where you can be scum.

How does that work?

[Grimgroove]

@Cervantes – I’m not into lynching someone who plays passively. Those are null tells. So, please ask for a replacement if you don’t have time.

You come again only to proddodge? Then, I will have to vote for you.

No one wants to play in a MyLo or LyLo with a passive player.

First post of Hayato after the night he supposedly checked Cervantes/fferyllt. Already quite incriminating. There's no way a cop would vote someone he just got confirmed as town no matter how inactive they are.

[Grimgroove]

Scum reads
Grim
Tris
TCGW

Null
Cervantes
NS

Town
WBO

This is confirmation Hayato is lying. He's putting Cervantes in his null-reads, even though he just claimed to have checked Cervantes during night 1 and investigated him as town.
Cops may not crmlub their roles, but they at least crmub their investigations for post-flip. NOTHING hints at Hayato having checked Cervantes during night 1, otherwise he would have cleared him in this readslist, one way or the other.