Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[TierShift]

I want you to address everything that is aimed at you in 508.
I have not yet discovered your partner, but I'm pretty sure it ain't bro or eek.

Let me take the flavor claiming to an even easier level.
If no flavor claim, about 10000 (perhaps even more) possible roles, yes?
If flavor claim, about 100 possible roles, yes?
If flavor claim, less possibility to fakeclaim, yes?
Please tell me in what part my logic gets too complicated

[XScorpion]

I want you to address everything that is aimed at you in 508.
I have not yet discovered your partner, but I'm pretty sure it ain't bro or eek.

Let me take the flavor claiming to an even easier level.
If no flavor claim, about 10000 (perhaps even more) possible roles, yes?
If flavor claim, about 100 possible roles, yes?

If flavor claim, less possibility to fakeclaim, yes?

Please tell me in what part my logic gets too complicated

I wrote 516 for that. You can read it again if you'd like.
You're not trying to scumhunt for a partner.

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

It won't give scum any idea who has what role,

as I explained in my previous post. I want to do this because town wouldn't care to out their role and it makes it harder for scum to fakeclaim later on.

Bolded are statements that contradict. Either flavor claim reduces fakeclaim possibilities AND aids scum in narrowing down roles, or it does neither.

[XScorpion]

Would not be surprised if scum have mod-given fakeclaims already anyway, which further suggests the scum intent behind a flavor claim.

[TierShift]

I've asked you to address the stuff said in 508 while using another argument than 'eek and tier are scum'. 516 is using only that argument.

Flavor claims reduce fakeclaim possibilities and aids scum in narrowing down roles, indeed. But there is no way it narrows it down far enough to be of any use to scum.

Your latest post is valid. But I can't see why flavor claim can hurt, in case mod hasn't given out fakeclaims.

[XScorpion]

I've asked you to address the stuff said in 508 while using another argument than 'eek and tier are scum'. 516 is using only that argument.

Because that is my reasoning. I'm not going to tell lies or make up new arguments to appease you.

If it doesn't narrow things down far enough to be useful for scum, it doesn't narrow things down enough to be useful for us either.
Flavor claim only benefits scum and I won't do it, and no one else should either.

[Turkish Van]

Didn't we already determine that alignments were randomized after games were submitted but before roles were made? Which makes any game feasible for any alignment.

With three claimed roles already, I'm not seeing that unclaimed scum has much wiggle room. Flavor claiming would more likely give scum the lay of the land and give them more time to optimize their eventual claims.

If TierShift is scum as well, it works even more to scum's advantage, as the ratio of town-sharing to scum-sharing skews further in scum's favor.

--PA

[TierShift]

Ok well if only me and GG think it's a good idea I'm dropping it then. Still think it's a good idea though.

[Who]

I don't see the point of a flavor-claim, scum are unlikely to claim a fake flavor anyway.

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count 1.06b

XScorpion (3) - My Milked Eek, TierShift, Trine
My Milked Eek (2) - BROseidon, Turkish Van
TierShift (2) - Desperado, XScorpion
Trine (1) - Grimgroove

Not Voting (1) - Who

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 28th, 7 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-28 19:00:00)

[TierShift]

Who, can you comment on the last few pages?

[My Milked Eek]

Do you mean 521? I address that in 523. If you mean 527, I answered everything that I felt deserved an answer in 528 (I'm not going to waste time repeating 'you guys are scum', I think it's clear enough). If I missed something that is actually relevant and worth addressing let me know.

No, I meant the 508 post. Those 521/523 posts are about me, not you. Also Trine's 572.

I see you referenced 516 to a post of Tier's. Looking over that post, I see nothing but "because you're scum". I never saw you post any refute against the post, if I'm wrong, link me. I'll quote 516 as a reference for the lazy people:

MMmm dat chainsaw defense.

1) Tell me how you got to GG being town based on his absence during the hammer. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.
2) Why did you only address Trine? Where is my name?

1) because you're scum too
2) because you're scum too

Why did you put him at L-1 if you don't want him to be lynched? Don't give me that quickhammer crap. Putting someone at L-1 is setting up a lynch. You don't put down the L-1 vote unless you want that person to be lynched. This post is nothing more than making empty threats and trying to posture. I'd even go as far as saying that if Tier flips town, XS is scum. I don't like the buddying to GG either. If XScorpion flips scum, GG is town. This is XScorpion blatantly distancing himself from a town mislynch while pushing it. It makes no sense to want to lynch someone over a possible quickhammer if you put down the L-1.

Why would you be against a quickhammer of scum? Why would "anyone die" for lynching a scum? If you're going to say "because not everyone has replied to this claim etc." then you should stop right there. Let me recap the previous paragraphs: Without an L-1 vote there would be no quickhammer. Stop posturing.

I do want him to be lynched. A quickhammer means his scumbuddy is trying to silence him before Tier outs him. This didn't happen though, did it? Instead, you, his scumbuddy, are now going to stop bussing him and chainsaw. But thank you for confirming my suspicions.

So yeah, a lot of "you're scum" and you've picked a really small selection from that post to answer. So again, if you have, let me know, but I don't think you have. You can reply to 508, but it might be better to reply to Trine's post. It's more condensed and nicely summarizes everything I brought up against you.

[XScorpion]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5527807

[Grimgroove]

Team building day at work today + site down yesterday = prod dodge until tonight.

[BROseidon]

Preventing mislynches is better than just not doing that.
And that's the last I will say about that.
This discussion wasn't fruitless, however. It helped me convince you were town, bro.
How about you help us lynch scorp today and visit me or eek in case scorp is town?

P-edit: bah you're back to square one...

Pushing the Who wagon pre-claim was fine. Pushing it post-claim was bad.

XScorp could have lurked through it, but with 3 people actively pushing it that still looks relatively fine for him.

Also I'm visiting Trine because holy fuck if that's scum it needs to die, and if it's town conftowning it is very powerful.

[BROseidon]

I'm glad you finally mentioned the buddying yourself. It's one thing to call someone town and to agree with someone, but it's another to take it to that level of ass kissing. Could you look over the case against scorp and give your opinion? I don't think you have done that already.

Is there more to the case than just "He's buddying BROseidon" at this point?

Because that's the only thing I can think of at this point.

And it's not as bad as the Who wagon going through.

[BROseidon]

That's pretty much the start of my suspicion of Scorpion. His reaction to the lynch during his absence is really wrong, not whether he was here during or not. No one contested his absence. It's about his reaction.

I should learn to read whole posts before spamposting.

I'll look at the reaction.

[BROseidon]

In the case of Trine, our motivation is necessarily town. Your disagreeing with our thought processes doesn't change that.

~ Zoya

Your lack of incorporation of Theory of Mind here is disconcerting.

[TierShift]

BRO, you forget the part where he states intent to hammer me, then after an unvote puts me at L-1 and then says: 'Anyone who hammers will be lynched tomorrow". It's inconsistent and pushing two mislynches in advance. And there's definitely more stuff that I'm forgetting.

Has the case on me (and on Eek as well I think?) already got any further than "you didn't follow what I thought was optimal play, you must be scum"?

[My Milked Eek]

His reaction is really, really forced. I wasn't suspicious of Scorp before it, not even remotely. I even had him on my townlist. But that post... Man, it rubs me the wrong way and I tried to explain it as conclusively as possible why it does so. I think there was something off with every line (iirc).

The broseidon buddying isn't the main point, despite that it's been so much in the spotlight. I feel it twists the basis of the case and undermines the validity of it. Buddying an sich isn't an indication of alignment.

[Trine]

In the case of Trine, our motivation is necessarily town. Your disagreeing with our thought processes doesn't change that.

~ Zoya

Your lack of incorporation of Theory of Mind here is disconcerting.

Most of my philosophical influences have German roots.

~ Zoya

[BROseidon]

Has the case on me (and on Eek as well I think?) already got any further than "you didn't follow what I thought was optimal play, you must be scum"?

There were cases on both you and Hermy before the who wagon happened.

[BROseidon]

To Eek/Trine/Tier:

If XScorp is scum, who is the buddy?

[TierShift]

There indeed was a case on me before, but in all of d2 the only thing referenced to is my unvote/hammer.

As for the buddy, I swear I'll do some rereading one of these days.

[XScorpion]

@Bro: I've already asked that and they've all been dodging it because they haven't actually bothered to think about it.

[TierShift]

Note: this is before rereading.
I'm gonna use PoE here.
People who I think aren't scorp's partner, in order of certainty:
Me/Who
Eek
Bro
Grim
That leaves:
Desp - townread for the moment so scratch him
Trine - I'm getting paranoid about my townread on him. Might be a possible bus.
TV-keep forgetting about them. Will reread

For now, it could be Trine or TV and perhaps just perhaps desp.
Will do some research.