NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Bert]

plus plus you're going to be scumreading me hard next week so get ready to bust out those craptastic tunnels

love, bert

[DOMO]

I'm fine with a casso wagon.

vote casso

[KoreanBBQ]

plus plus you're going to be scumreading me hard next week so get ready to bust out those craptastic tunnels

love, bert

cute. Why a week?

[Empire]

Day 2, Votecount 16

Ser Arthur Dayne (5)

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Casso the King of Seals, Bert, Desperado, pieguyn, Cephrir

Casso the King of Seals (2)

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goodmorning, DOMO

Desperado (2)

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Sakura Hana, MC Maraca

pieguyn (1)

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Norlkaz

Cephrir (1)

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Ser Arthur Dayne

Bert (1)

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KoreanBBQ

Not Voting (6)

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geists, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, MafiaSSK, zMuffinMan, Generic, BROseidon

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! Deadline is on January 11th at 10:10 AM EST (expired on 2014-01-11 11:10:12)

Mod Notes

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BROseidon is V/LA until January 3rd. Generic is V/LA until Sunday.

[Bert]

plus plus you're going to be scumreading me hard next week so get ready to bust out those craptastic tunnels

love, bert

cute. Why a week?

cos i don't have my own private computer access at home (been this way since Dec 11) and

i will be with my laptop in my dorm next week <3 so i will have a keyboard to type on when it's past midnight

[Norlkaz]

My EARS said "WORMSIGN" while I was reading Nacho's #4410.
I had to look around and make sure that wasn't somebody's ringtone or something.
The post is alarming because the primary purpose seems to be showing us how much work Nacho is doing.
His descriptions are too detailed for a notes-to-self post but too mashed-together for a persuasive post.

Geists being our Official Town Leader is something I approve of.
I would appreciate improved quality controls on your posts so that I can work with you, though.
I selected Norlkaz for this game over Llamarble because Norlkaz generates pristine, beautiful ISOs, which should ensure people actually read my posts.

[Casso the King of Seals]

CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN (FURY OF FLING FROM STRONGEST TO WEAKEST):

Desperado - I liked Desperado's entrance because it was so solidly "I don't give a fuck, what's up guys". His early pushes felt more fluid and less loud and confident like his normal scum pushes. I didn't like his attack on Varsoon for "false dichotomies" because Varsoon does that as town as Desperado saw. I thought his push on Maraca was fine, and his push on Sakura was good (until recently when he continued pushing Sakura after the meltdown bit and didn't engage anyone on why opinions so radically changed). Geists scumread is also weird although it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a Desperado-scum fakeread, and the "oh I'm not pushing you today even though I have you as a scumread because you're not getting lynched" bit is weird, considering he's made no attempt to sell anyone on any of his non-consensus scumreads. Not at all hitting the level I expect Desperado-town to hit.

Ser Arthur Dayne - Initial read on Tammy is kind of weird (Tammy is highly town unless she can emulate her usual town aggressiveness): SAD hasn't played with Tammy for a while, sure, but I'm fairly sure he played with her on Westeros longer than anyone else in the game, so the bit of paranoia that she could fake what she showed here seemed disingenuous. His push on pie is weird and not really representative of what pie was doing (and I don't like his backtrack when he goes from "pie is doing zero scumhunting" to "his scumreads are fake/he's tunneling"). Him pushing pie pretty strongly and going "meh, can't get a read on you" was strange but probably not alignment indicative, and his later pushes on Muffin/us where he votes us then doesn't comment on the vote at all both feel weird (I think I read something about him explaining the reasons he did this somewhere). I'm still weirded about by his defense of SSK on the basis of being not good information; I like that he was so honest about the associative tell thing (yeah, it was a lie all along), but I'm not really sure what he was supposed to defend himself with as scum and that honestly doesn't look so great when his initial reaction was to lie about it, which would be for SAD-town. His switch on SSK also seems like an odd position to take; he doesn't seem to be getting boxed in by POE and I don't follow his case on SSK today, so the newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic. I like his snark, and I'm inclined to believe him when he says he wouldn't kill Tammy because he joined this game to play for her, but it's not enough for a townread.

Muffin - My main concern with Muffin at this point is that there's nothing in his posts I can point to and strongly declare him town because of it. His attack on me is mostly a response to my attack on him, and has a few genuine-sounding notes that are pretty fakeable for Muffin-scum. He felt a lot more aggressive dismissing me for my read on him than he does now which could be an effect of scumMuffin running out of angles or townMuffin not feeling as strongly about things as he did before. I liked Muffin's question to geists about their townread on me (is it because of how he sorted you?) because a large component of ffery townread on me in Marketplace was my sorting her, and I like the stronger than consensus townread on BRO since it's Muffin shutting down a mislynch option when I'm guessing mislynch options are fairly sparse. In the end, I need more content and I need town leader Muffin over the Muffin that we see here.

Norlkaz (but mostly Brian Skies) - I am completely null on Llamarble, and I've sort of resigned myself to being null on him for a while. Brian Skies did not post enough in order to get any sort of solid read on; there were a couple good-sounding moments earlier in his ISO, but nothing I have any sort of faith in.

BRO - This game feels very, very different from the two games where we were scumbuddies. I agree with general statements that he hasn't dedicated as much time as in scum games to looking town, and the early push on ffery for not seeing what he expected her to seems like a nice early attack on a power player to early attack on me. A lot of his talk relies on other players and based on feelings in other games, and the majority of his pushes lack the low fruit strikes that seemed rampant in his other scumgames (for example, calling goodmorning town for town lurk early closed that option off early when it was something I expected BRO to go for as scum). Concerning bits are mostly based on BRO not hitting the "unfakeable factor" that a lot of players have seem to hit or come close to hitting, lacking something strong that I can point to and declare "yes, this is town", and having a good scumgame with a pretty impressive range. BRO would probably be a decent townread in a more normal game.

SSK read is a special case, not something to be dealt with today.

[Bert]

My EARS said "WORMSIGN" while I was reading Nacho's #4410.
I had to look around and make sure that wasn't somebody's ringtone or something.

The post is alarming because the primary purpose seems to be showing us how much work Nacho is doing.

His descriptions are too detailed for a notes-to-self post but too mashed-together for a persuasive post.

Geists being our Official Town Leader is something I approve of.
I would appreciate improved quality controls on your posts so that I can work with you, though.
I selected Norlkaz for this game over Llamarble because Norlkaz generates pristine, beautiful ISOs, which should ensure people actually read my posts.

(1) I can interpret this two ways. ONE: Llamarble (Scum or town, who knows) is slandering Nacho's pristine walls or Llamarble is jealous of said walls since people are marveling over Nacho's beautiful walling which he lost precious sleep on. this also makes sense given Norlkaz's pitiful entries in the game with absolutely no explanation whatsoever, which have been laughed at and scorned due to lack of explaining and poor choice of reads. Llamarble has been one upped for good. TWO: Nacho's putting together shit, and Llamarble realizes that Nacho is going overboard with it.

Above was for my own lulz, sorry.

OK in all seriousness, yes Nacho's walls do remind me of his wall on Brian Skies's meta which Falcon called out in Mentor/Mentee 254. Nacho isn't usually this verbose? He's talking out of his you-know-where maybe, but I won't interrupt his walls while he is in his charming world of charming people. CRAZY THEORY: He knows this is the Nacho we all want to say, and so he is overdoing that aspect of his ID.

That would ^ be where my paranoia is.

Also, Llamarble trumps Norlkaz big time. Sorry dude. You should just switch back to Llamarble because I listen to you more on Llamarble anyway.

[Bert]

I'm fine with a casso wagon.

vote casso

Why

[Casso the King of Seals]

The post is alarming because the primary purpose seems to be showing us how much work Nacho is doing.
His descriptions are too detailed for a notes-to-self post but too mashed-together for a persuasive post.

Purposes of large masturbatory reads lists are for me to get as much work done as possible while I still have a laptop at my disposal, to explain some reads, to solidify positions enough where I can push with confidence. I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.

Vote: Desperado

I feel pretty confident in Desperado/SAD scum and probably scum in Muffin/SSK.

[Cephrir]

See I have concerns about cephrir and I'm trying to decide exactly what it is.

The reads of the wagon are indeed consistent with his earlier reads, but it's exactly that sentence DOMO highlighted that pings something.

It's almost as if he had already determined how town the wagon was rather than the main thing being on a wagon should be, that you think the person is scum.
Yes you were asked for opinions of the players on that wagon, but you seemed to introduce whether the wagon was acceptably town enough.

I'm gonna scrutinise the arguement you had with SAD in a bit more detail to settle my mind on a few things, for now though I would rather the SAD wagon stays parked rather than accelerated.

Nah bro, I def think he's scum too. Outside chance of just retarded, but, probably scum. You can see that from when I originally voted him in the first place even if my reasons were kind of shitty.

This post is in a way rather unsettling.
Nothing to do with the admittance you voted of very weak ground, we have all done that, but ore with how calm you are with me.
Your tone in this game is strong aggression when challenged and essentially I posted something negative about you. Maybe I have you read wrong but you position here is interesting.

As a side note guys I am again having to go v/la for family matters, will return to this when I'm back hopefully by Sunday.

The difference being that I don't think you're scum and am not mad at you.

TOWN ANGELS:

Pieguyn - A couple observations I have from the scumgames that I skimmed is that pie :effort: level here is very impressive compared to his :effort: level elsewhere, and his pushes on players here seem much more thorough than they did in any of his other scumgames. Early townread on goodmorning is a bit strange (as in I don't see the basis of it whatsoever), especially since it's one of the pie's top tier townreads; he didn't have any weird townreads like this in Marketplace. I agree with him that the strong tilt against our slot is something unlikely to come from Pieguyn-scum, and his theories of various scumteams sometimes get a little conspiracy theory but they seem very genuine (see: Casso-Cephrir team based on timing, Casso-Sakura team based on D1 and how he got people to talk about the Casso-Sakura possibility after he thought of it); they all seem like unlikely angles for scumpieguyn to push so fervently, especially when he hasn't demonstrated the ability to fervently push easier targets in the past. I also like a lot of his "I expect you would pick on on this" language, seems fairly genuine. The big thing is how absolutely out of his mind he would have to be playing in order to be scum right now, which is why I'm upgrading him at the moment.

feel much more comfortable upgrading pieguyn than I do the other two simply because pie's scumgame has a much smaller range than the other two have, and I simply can't see pie going from two games where generally he got scared to drive his pushes through pretty quickly and never came close to hitting the genuine notes he's hitting here to his play in this game. Even based on his push on Sakura alone here compared to Touhou uPick is town town town.

I'm gonna take your word on this for now because I have vivid recollections of being miserably bad at meta.

[Cephrir]

The post is alarming because the primary purpose seems to be showing us how much work Nacho is doing.
His descriptions are too detailed for a notes-to-self post but too mashed-together for a persuasive post.

Purposes of large masturbatory reads lists are for me to get as much work done as possible while I still have a laptop at my disposal, to explain some reads, to solidify positions enough where I can push with confidence. I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.

[Bert]

I'm gonna take your word on this for now because I have vivid recollections of being miserably bad at meta.

Ceph is downplaying how un-bad he is at meta. What Kaze would say is "have a little more faith in yourself"

[Cephrir]

Did you read my attempt at meta in hardboiled? It was really pathetic. I said something like "I guess he makes longer posts as scum???" or something equally wimpy. You don't count, that's from direct personal experience.

[geists]

OK in all seriousness, yes Nacho's walls do remind me of his wall on Brian Skies's meta which Falcon called out in Mentor/Mentee 254. Nacho isn't usually this verbose? He's talking out of his you-know-where maybe, but I won't interrupt his walls while he is in his charming world of charming people. CRAZY THEORY: He knows this is the Nacho we all want to say, and so he is overdoing that aspect of his ID.

They remind me of this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5175588

We were both up all night working on our walls for that game.

[DOMO]

I'm fine with a casso wagon.

vote casso

Why

Why SAD? You didn't seem to question my vote when it was there, why question it now?

[Bert]

I liked your SAD vote. I actually haven't read the past 18 pages, but I'm talking because I didn't feel like prod dodging today.

[DOMO]

Similarities - Muffin lazy in both.
Differences are based mostly on context; in that game, he was replacing into a game with an absolutely massive Day 1, lots of loud obnoxious people floating around, town was already ridiculously town and the slot he replaced into was ridiculously town already. Here, he replaced in fairly early, there weren't so many obnoxious and loud people (just a bunch of loud people), and his slot was at a point where it needed to look town in order to narrow down options more. I will also note he got a hell of a lot more engaged a lot quicker in FEA (122 posts in 12 days there, 52 posts in 15 days here), which doesn't make sense because I can imagine this would be a game he would be more excited to get into.

This is what I dislike most in the recent casso muffin exchange. Casso is building pressure on muffin by comparing his meta to one of his town games, pointing out that as town he was very quick to get involved. Muffin argues this is due to xmas/site probems, and casso argues back that it doesn't seem to have effected anyone else. Well actually it did. Compare my d1 activity to today. The site problems and timing are absolutely the reason I was not thoroughly up to date on d1. Casso using this in a meta argument is pretty horrible. The two situations he's comparing are imo uncomparable, and both nacho and thor should know better. This I think is scum trying to build a mislynch.

[Norlkaz]

I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.

"As scum my play looks more like thus and so" is on my list of statements that come more often from scum than town.

[Cephrir]

I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.

"As scum my play looks more like thus and so" is on my list of statements that come more often from scum than town.

Said the shining beacon of towniness

[DOMO]

Nork is above you ceph in my list of towniness.

[Cephrir]

bro that's harsh

i'm hurt

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Vote: Desperado

I feel pretty confident in Desperado/SAD scum and probably scum in Muffin/SSK.

...

Why would you not stick to the larger wagon then?

I mean I'm all happy your voting someone I think is scum (and the unvoting me is a bonus ) but like it makes no sense from you PoV?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

[quote="In post 4378, Cephrir"][/quote]
The fact that, I assume, mafia interests you yet you must resort to childish techniques at the first sight of a debate instead of replying to my post sadness me. But I still feel you bro.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ser Arthur Dayne - Initial read on Tammy is kind of weird (Tammy is highly town unless she can emulate her usual town aggressiveness): SAD hasn't played with Tammy for a while, sure, but I'm fairly sure he played with her on Westeros longer than anyone else in the game, so the bit of paranoia that she could fake what she showed here seemed disingenuous.

When I played with her, her scum game was kinda crap and whenever she showed that kind of emotion meant she's town. However, I haven't played with her in at least 6 months, likely closer to a year. People change their playstyles, and she could've easily developed the ability to fake that kind of rage as scum *shrug*

His push on pie is weird and not really representative of what pie was doing (and I don't like his backtrack when he goes from "pie is doing zero scumhunting" to "his scumreads are fake/he's tunneling"). Him pushing pie pretty strongly and going "meh, can't get a read on you" was strange but probably not alignment indicative, and his later pushes on Muffin/us where he votes us then doesn't comment on the vote at all both feel weird (I think I read something about him explaining the reasons he did this somewhere).

Yes, I sometimes vote without much of a reason. Yes, I vote a lot without putting a one liner. Again, as I've probably stated somewhere, it means I either really don't have something to add other than just agreeing with people, I just want to add my vote as a pressure, or I want to get a reaction out of someone.

I'm still weirded about by his defense of SSK on the basis of being not good information; I like that he was so honest about the associative tell thing (yeah, it was a lie all along), but I'm not really sure what he was supposed to defend himself with as scum and that honestly doesn't look so great when his initial reaction was to lie about it, which would be for SAD-town.

I've already stated that I didn't want the mafiassk wagon to go through because there were better wagons. Plus, I may have exaggerated a few things here and there about my feelings towards the wagon, but I still thought it was a crap wagon because it was information-less. I just exaggerated the fact I don't really care about informational wagons that much *shrug*.

His switch on SSK also seems like an odd position to take; he doesn't seem to be getting boxed in by POE and I don't follow his case on SSK today, so the newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic. I like his snark, and I'm inclined to believe him when he says he wouldn't kill Tammy because he joined this game to play for her, but it's not enough for a townread.

Are you serious? I've already admitted that I think the claim by mafiassk was really weird, plus when domo claimed that just strengthened my suspicions. The "newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic"? Are you serious. Go back and read the posts of this day. You'll note that I was one of the very first people that indicated suspicion of his claim. I can't really see how you see that as opportunistic.