Open 546: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[Dry-fit]

Vote: Titus.

He always looks like scum to me.

Sweet my name is at the top of the playerlist!

[Dry-fit]

Who's your scum partner this time?

[Dry-fit]

Well this game is moving along at a good clip.

What do you feel your strongest and weakest points are?

My weakest point is that I have a hard time being influential in the town and getting my scumreads and theories accepted. I'm not to sure I have any strong points.

In other news, Zekrom is almost certainly scum, but I'm choosing not to vote there.
Discuss.

Have you played with Zekrom before?

I expect more from the legendary mastin.

I suggest you alter your expectations.

Ice Team ???

Haylen / Surye

fire team

jklash12 / ??????????

And yet your vote is on Titus.

COME ON FIRE SCUM

A part of me wants to believe that Zekrom is town trolling right now, but dude's literally claimed Ice-scum.

The narrative of the game Zekrom was presenting at the time was that Haylen/Surye were Ice scum. So he was hoping fire scum would "reveal" themselves by putting him to L-1. You have to dig a little deeper with this Zekrom guy.

No one really seems cummy so far

[Dry-fit]

I chided mastin for thinking Zekrom claimed scum.

Also I don't have any scumreads.

[Dry-fit]

@mastin: My typo rate seems to be increasing rapidly recently.

I don't agree with the reasoning behind jklash's jmo vote, bit I think his thought process is coming from a town place.

He's someone who quite easily could be town, and has an aura that overall feels town, but could easily be scum because of his attitude.

What attitude is that?

@ObsessedWithCats: So what conclusions do you draw from those thoughts?

[Dry-fit]

I think I'll go out on a limb here and vote ObsessedWithCats. I don't usually care for information instead of analysis as a tell, but 172 is going to extreme lengths to avoid taking a meaningful stance. I mean it seems to lack the intent to scumhunt you would expect. It's true that scum can put genuine effort into scumhunting in multiball, but in my experience they often don't.

Unvote. Vote: ObsessedWithCats.

I'm also having some niggling feelings about jmo.

[Dry-fit]

Yes, it's mainly a gut read but I understand Titus isn't keen on pure gut reads so I tried to explain what led me to it.

Why are you concerned about what she's keen on? She's not one of the people you have to convince.

Hi fontisian I guess I'll ask you a question so you can feel noticed. What is your overall read on me?

[Dry-fit]

in post # 238 i meant to type Dry-fit are you town ?

Yes.

Lean scum. I really didn't like the way you pressured people in post 144 and then finished up the post by saying you had no scum reads. The word choice of "no one really

seems

scummy" was also bad.

I use a lot of hedge words. It's kind of a bad habit.

Hi fontisian I guess I'll ask you a question so you can feel noticed. What is your overall read on me?

Why are you asking about yourself? Only scum care what other players think of them.

fontisian gave sort of a half-baked read on me in 213. I wanted to see if he could back it up.

Dry-fit has no scumreads. And then he has a scumread, and that scumread is for not giving decisive scumreads... oookay. Am I missing something here?

For one thing I am the site's number 1 advocate for hypocritical scumhunting. But I don't really want to go into it. But there is an actual difference in that you stated you had "noteworthy" thoughts on some players, but you drew precious few conclusions from them and only had one irrelevant question in there about mathematicians. In fact you haven't done a lot of questioning at all so far, which indicates to me a lack of curiosity about people's alignments.

[Dry-fit]

im here.. although not much has happened.

So in the like three and a half pages since you last posted, including a player replacing into a slot that hadn't posted yet, you found nothing of interest to comment on? Do you still like your jklash vote?

[Dry-fit]

You considered a Zekrom lynch solely from the pov of a scum looking to lynch the other team and left yourself an out by presenting the idea that scummy players don't get nightkilled as something unique to this setup.

Getting crosskills is extremely important for town in this setup though, since town is very weak in and of itself.

Hey dry-fit why did you ignore my post in regards to you?

It didn't seem that interesting. I said it was "out on a limb" because it wasn't particularly confident in it, and no one else had expressed any suspicion of ObsessedWithCats. Although every time I think about the way OWC is playing this game, the more I think he's scum.

Also sometimes I like to use unusual phrasing, because it's more attention grabbing and likely to get a reaction. I'm afraid my normal writing style is very dull though.

Yet, I can't agree with Mastin's reasoning for boting Surye and one of Mastin's biggest tells is basically steering the town wrong the whole game.

Is it a towntell or a scumtell?

You should know the setup, and you shouldn’t just be hoping for a vig to come along and kill someone when you’ve got the ability to vote.

Not noticing a rule might be a null tell, but everyone should know the setup. Additionally, if you’re going to suggest specific actions to a specific role you should at the very least check whether that role exists.

This is all bad. If anything I think town would be more likely to think of killing null/troll players with a vig, since they don't have the ability to kill and so would be relying on the vig to do it. As for the second part, he may have been assuming this is a closed setup.

[Dry-fit]

Ive caught scum with it before and i wouldnt be suprised if i caught it again here. but thats okay too.

Any interest in pursuing someone else in the meantime?

And here's scum number three.

Surye, Cats and Titus.

Easy game is easy.

Same thing with scum hunting. He says he has ideas on jmo. I'm still waiting to hear those views though.

What I don't like about his is the confidence with which he's pushing this tell on you or the fact that he seems to be using it as an excuse not to do any other scumhunting. I haven't seen any change in his view of the game as the game has been progressing.

[Dry-fit]

I could see Dry-fit/Gooner much more easily than Surye/Gooner.

Oh so you have me as a scumread now? And you think my interactions with Gooner look like buddy interactions? Do tell.

I guess since the Surye wagon is the big thing now I should comment on it. A lot of Surye's posts read scummy to me on a gut level, but I haven't played with him before so I don't know how much of that is posting style. So not someone I would mind getting rid of, but not in my top tier of lynch candidates.

[Dry-fit]

Do you have a top tier? I think I've only seen you mention suspicion of OBC and maybe jmo.

Yeah my top tier is OBC and jmo. Good to know I'm being so transparent.

If the major wagon is null, you should be asking questions.

Well looking at the wagon mastin, Gooner, and Shadowcat haven't given any specific reasons for their votes. Gooner's vote seems to be a vote of convenience in that his top suspect isn't being suspected right now. mastin has had Surye as a top suspect for a while. But Shadowcat hasn't really indicated that Surye was a top suspect before the vote. So my main question is for Shodowcat: Why did you decide to go in the direction of voting Surye?

[Dry-fit]

He shouldn't claim until there's intent to hammer. And nobody better hammer without giving intent first either.

[Dry-fit]

Why shouldn't he claim now?

Because the more people claiming in a setup with only one town pr the worse it is or town. Mountainous games are very scum sided.

Okay, someone point me in the right direction. I'm so lost in this game its not even funny.

Vote OWC.

[Dry-fit]

Yeah some strange kills. Gooner was fairly obvtown really.

Vote: ObsessedWithCats.

[Dry-fit]

@Dry, how was Gooner obvtown? Why Obseessed?

I guess his play wasn't obvtown in the sense that there were several people who suspected him. But his cases looked very town. They came across as very tryhard. And once again, though scum has an incentive to legitimately scumhunt in this setup, they often don't and very rarely make it a top priority.

OWC's early posts didn't look like posts coming from someone curious about finding things out. They claimed to have significant things to say about several players, but nothing of significance actually came of it. Later their attack on Gooner for forgetting the setup was bad and came off as fake. I explained why it was bad and didn't lie OWC's response. Just repeating that there's "no excuse" for not knowing the setup, as if bad play has anything to do with alignment in that case.

@fontisian: You missed a 7th motivation. Scum sometimes make a kill because it won't leave any kind of trace whatsoever. It's a common reason scum choose the kills they do too.

So, who had a scumread on Gooner and believes that one scumteam should try to take out the other?

mala might fit this bill. I don't know whether I've convinced her that's the best way for scum to play though.

P.S. Titus #4 is definitely the best way to play it as scum.

[Dry-fit]

Gooner doesn’t know the setup or is pretending not to.

Wiki says no vig. I’d not say that’s very alignment indicative.

I can see Gooner as scum. That comment about Zekrom needing to be vigged really rubs me the wrong way both because he should have known there isn’t a vig and because if you want someone dead you should be voting them, not hoping the hypothetical vig agrees with you. I personally don’t vote on gutreads either but it’s hardly mindblowing that someone else would, and I don’t think it’s scummy unless it makes a quicklynch likely – votes give pressure which gets better reads, and might make you realise why you had that gutread.

Who-lly shit.

[Dry-fit]

Hey jmo, you're next buddy.

[Dry-fit]

jklash- Why are you asking softball questions?

@ObsessedWithCats: So what you expect me to believe is that first you correctly determined that Gooner not knowing the setup was null, then changed it to a bad scumread later? And what about there being "no excuse to not know the setup." You seemed willing to excuse Gooner when you said it wasn't alignment indicative.

[Dry-fit]

@Shadowcat: What do you think of jmo's "scumhunting" so far this game?

[Dry-fit]

It looks like OWC has disappeared in shame. We can finish lynching them at any time.

[Dry-fit]

Okay I'll be able to post regularly again now.

So it looks like Edosurist is another wagon analysis player. Great.

This game needs Haylen to get away from the Shadowcat distraction and vote OWC again. We can sort Shadowcat later. Edo or whoever else wants to can finish them off then.

[Dry-fit]

@Dryfit, wagon analysis is good but needs to be closed off with specific player analysis. Why do you not like it? Why is Shadowcat a distraction?

Because you can create just about any narrative you want around vote counts. And players get stuck on the mindset of "there must be x scum off the wagon" and such and get thrown way off. Shadowcat is a distraction because they're not getting lynched today and OWC is superobvscumneedstodienow.

Titus: Four reasons.
1. Only asking me for my read of him was when I first came into the game.
2. Constant tunneling on OWC, while ignoring his other scumread.
3. Obsession with the idea that scum are hunting for other scum with their kills.

In post 512, Dry-fit wrote:Yeah some strange kills. Gooner was fairly obvtown really.

Vote: ObsessedWithCats.


4. The "Gooner was fairly obvtown really" line when he said nothing of the sort while Gooner was under pressure.

I'd be willing to switch to pisskop after the way he tried to whip up conflict and create a false dichotomy.

1. I just wanted to engage you somehow, and the most interesting thing about your posts to me was that you gave kind of a half-read on me. I wanted to explore that.
2. I only have one vote at a time and we can only lynch one person each day. No one is particularly interested in pushing jmo. jmo hasn't been posting much new content.
3. How is that scummy? That's my view of this setup. You can look at any of the fire and ice games I've played and see the same kind of talk.
4. Giving town reads isn't always the best thing especially when that player isn't under much pressure, as Gooner never was.

And him flipping out over a null read becoming a nullscum read.

No. It's for correctly calling an action null and later calling the

same action

scummy later for awful reasons, which I pointed out to them and they didn't give a satisfactory response.

Its going to bother me if I don't say it, but why is scum killing a 'fairly obvtown' player a weird thing?

It's not in general I suppose but Gooner had no real influence in the town so he didn't seem like he should be a high priority kill. It's pretty clear from this that pisskop isn't OWC's buddy though.

If ObsessedWithCats is still alive by Night four I will SCREAM AT ALL OF YOU POSTGAME.

[Dry-fit]

Shit I just did a big post and it got eaten.

Whatever. Scum is probably OWC/jmo/Shodowcat/????

Last scum probably isn't fontisian.

[Dry-fit]

Unfortunately I don't have time to say more, but pisskop and I are the only viable lynches so

Unvote. Vote: pisskop.

[Dry-fit]

Vote: ObsessedWithCats.

Can't wait to hear what jmo has to say now that jklash is dead.

[Dry-fit]

My other big scumread is still jmo.

I don't really know who I wouldn't want to lynch. Fontisian and jklash were by big townreads and they're dead. There are only two people other than me who are town so it's kind of hard to find them.

[Dry-fit]

Dry-fit, you have to pick someone you don't want to lynch for my reads gathering exercise.

Why did you ignore the fact I pretty much called you icescum?

If I had to pick someone I guess it would be you.

If you want to draw conclusions from nightkill analysis I don't know how much I can convince you you're wrong. I will say that as I've said my philosophy is that scum should be aiming for scum in this setup, so I wouldn't have killed fontisian. You can believe me on that or not but it can get pretty wifommy.

[Dry-fit]

kay, scum is in obsessed with cats and Dry-fit. Id call them partners.

So we have proof here that jmo hasn't been reading the thread. As if that wasn't obvious already.

Since you guys want to know why I suspected jmo in the first place, it was his case on jklash. He just gave reasoning that wasn't open to interpretation, because it was about something jklash objectively did(unvoted without revoting), and then he disengaged from the game. It's the epitome of scum giving a reason for a vote to meet their town-looking obligation and leaving it at that. People have asked why I haven't said a lot about others. It's because no one here has looked particularly town(outside fontisian) and OWC and jmo have stood out as the scummiest by far. And they just. Won't. Freaking. Die.

My gut is saying that Haylen should be the play here... Someone tell me why that's wrong other than Haylen.

I am having a difficult time seeing Haylen as town here.

Dry-fit, we really have to get scum today IMO so ignoring one part doesn't make much sense. What do you think of Shadowcat and Haylen?

If you forced me to tell you who I thought the other two scum are, it would be them.

I don't like Shdowcat's interactions with jmo. Not a bit. And mala hasn't been her usual self in her interactions with me. Normally she talks a lot about meta. But she has a scumread on me now but hasn't related it at all to past meta with me, which doesn't fit with her town play.(I've never seen her as scum) I think the nightkills also feel like they're coming from a Shadowcat mindset. Don't know if I could explain that though.

Haylen is just kind of weird. What bothers me a bit is what seems like an inconsistency with their read on me. First they read me as town:

My strongest townread right now is Dry-Fit. I'm not explaining why because it helps scum and he's not under attack. Mild town on Titus and Cats.

But later when I'm being wagonned to the point of almost being lynched she says nothing about this. I would think that would be the time to bring it up. The only thing they say about it is this:

Because apparently every one of my thoughts needs stating here, let it be known: I consider Dryfit suspicious for not claiming at L-1.

It doesn't seem consistent with having a strong townread on me earlier.

In addition I think he's leaning too hard on a very thin case on me.

lol. It's probably the strongest case I've ever made. The fact that I can't get you lynched almost makes me want to quit mafia. I said my weakness is leading the town and getting my suspects lynched, and boy has that happened this game.

[Dry-fit]

1) What don't you like about our interactions with jmo?

Because you have a no good dirty townread on him for no good reason.

2) That would be because Mala didn't write those posts.

Well ok you guys haven't been signing your posts much so since your slot suspects me I suspected some of that was from her. mala did show suspicion of me at least once though. It's still weird that mala hasn't talked about my meta since she's seen me play this setup three times and she's a very meta heavy player.

3) I'm trying to recall if I've ever been in a game with you but I don't think I have, so where are you coming from with that last point?

If you mean the point about the nightkills I don't know how well I can explain it. Some of them are very strange, and I feel like both of you are players who would make off the wall nightkill choices.

Welcome to the game dice. I'm sorry to tell you but there's virtually no chance of Titus getting lynched today. Try somewhere else.

[Dry-fit]

Because you have a no good dirty townread on him for no good reason.

But we don't have a town read on him. Where are you getting that from?

Well regardless of your current read these are the things you've said about jmo that bother me:

JMO tunnels. I think maybe more affliated with his town game than scum game.

@Shadowcat: What do you think of jmo's "scumhunting" so far this game?

Very limited, but it doesn't look fake.

Welcome to the game dice. I'm sorry to tell you but there's virtually no chance of Titus getting lynched today. Try somewhere else.

Why is there no chance? I disagree with that.

Well that's my sense of where the town stands at the moment.

But my point here really is WHY IS NO ONE TRYING TO ACTIVELY READ US. Like why is Titus, Jmo and Dry NOT TRYING TO REACH OUT TO US.

As I'm sure you know I've devoted my time this game to extreme tunneling. Plus trying to read mala is blah and trying to read hydras is also blah.

I'm so fucking lost that it actually makes me sad to see how lost I am in terms of trying to figure out whos scum.

What's wrong with voting OWC?

Scum would have been divided between the Dryfit and Pisskop wagons BUT, I think JMO needs a looking into. He sticks out like a sore thumb being the lone person to vote elsewhere. As scum, I used to deliberately avoid the major wagons at lynch time, obviously he is not me but I see it as something worth looking into. If I'm killed tonight, look at the possibility that the scum on the same faction may have split themselves between those wagons to distance from each other.

Keep in mind that jmo had been v/la for quite a few days when the pisskop lynch occurred.

[Dry-fit]

Btw mala's whole "oh I have no idea who is scum" thing when there are four scum in a seven player game? Super fake.

[Dry-fit]

ObsessedWithCats has been lynched Day 3! They were a

Fire Mafia Goon

.

Night 3 starts now. All night actions must be submitted by (expired on 2014-03-17 21:00:00).

jmo16mla was brought to a cavern deep underground and submerged in magma. He was an

Ice Mafia Goon

.

lolololololololol

If this is some sort of super-MYLO where we have to No Lynch, I would like to request that we still use the day for discussion and content. I'm sick right now and need all the help I can get when it comes to figuring out who the last town is.

We absolutely

have

to no lynch here. There might be an argument or trying to lynch a townie but I don't know. I don't know what the benefit of dragging out the day is here because the outcome of the game is completely up to the scum at this point.

[Dry-fit]

Vote: 3dicerolling.

[Dry-fit]

He volunteered. Don't think about it too much just sheep it.

[Dry-fit]