NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[emogirl123]

then through the Slandaar/emeraldemon/Brian debate her posts were kind of fluffy

Not really, I was opposed to the reasons for why Slandaar was being voted and wanted ABR dead at that instant in time. I still want ABR dead and a lot of other players dead too. Including you.

[Nobody Special]

I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

[Garmr]

A post on the end-of-day votecount:

For reference, here it is:

Vote Count 1.19

Slandaar (10) - Chevre, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies, Bulbazak, Zdenek, Matias, yessiree, Albert B. Rampage, Slandaar

Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon, emogirl123
Chevre (2) - Zekrom25, The Fonz
emeraldemon (1) - inHimshallibe
emogirl123 (1) - kabooooom

Not voting (1) - Nobody Special

With nineteen players alive, it takes ten votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One has been extended due to the replacements and is now Wednesday, 5th February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-05 20:00:00)).

Let's go over the votes on Slandaar's lynch first. Obviously mine is the first vote; I think at the time of casting it was a weak vote based primarily on a sort of active lurking but Slandaar's poor reactions to the vote strengthened my opinions on it. I'm going to affirm here that I don't think the Slandaar lynch was poorly conceptualized, but in this review I do want to look at those whose votes seem opportune or of little reason. OGML's vote is second and I think it's actually a little bit prophetic with the line "In conclusion, let's try to disingenuously dismiss all criticism out of hand", so I don't take issue with this vote either. ABR's first vote on Slandaar (he unvotes later and then revotes) is just because he is "scummy" without explanation but that's to be expected of ABR at this point isn't it? He does switch to emeraldemon quite quickly afterward but that wagon hasn't really taken off yet so I don't think it's a scummy hop. I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see. It does agree with OGML again which is so very strange and I think Zdenek is right to question it. Aegor, though initially I thought it scummy since he considers lynching Slandaar earlier in 607, actually has decent reasons in this post and 668, especially determining why Slandaar is the best choice out of the suspects. Despite walls on the same page, Brian Skies' vote is pretty reasonless; he notes how Slandaar is "pure evil" but I don't know if that necessarily indicates scum? The Bulbazak vote is reasonless within the post but in 634 he notes Slandaar's poor list construction (the one where he lists people he believes need to post and declares them as scum). I think Brian Skies' reasonless vote is at least in part remedied by transactions between the two on pages 31 and 32. ABR switches back for a second time to Slandaar and this is still not the last; what's even more disconcerting is that he says in this post that his reads are "usually right on the money" but his earlier switch from Slandaar to emeraldemon seemed quite fickle. Zdenek's vote feels right, especially since now Slandaar is all over the place and peaked with that vote switch to emeraldemon; Matias pretty much echoes these sentiments. Zekrom places a vote which I guess changes later, and it's literally reasoned by everyone else's reasons, but given what I've seen on Day 2 I'm not expecting much more. yessiree's vote is kind of pointless to include in this analysis, but for completion's sake, it actually doesn't do much in the way of reasoning, though at this point it is nearing deadline and much of the reasons have been stated and re-stated. I feel this differs from Zekrom's vote because yessiree's feels legitimate whereas Zekrom's feels like he's latching on, though these ideas are admittedly gut feels since there is so little wordage in the vote posts. I don't feel it's worth linking, but ABR switches back to make it L-1 in 929 and then Slandaar self hammers.

From the votes that were left at lynch, I think ABR's wishy-washy voting is the scummiest, but I do think most of the votes off the wagon are more fishy. I never really found Sotty7's vote reasoning for Slandaar very in-depth, and then he switches off the wagon. Zekrom's vote and switch to me before the lynch is also very scummy. emogirl also putting her vote on Brian feels scummy as well. Also Garmr barely touches the Slandaar wagon at all. As for the others, emeraldemon truly does reek of newness, and I am of mixed opinion on his vote on Brian Skies. I could totally see it as scum knowing Slandaar is not scum and thus trying to avoid flak on Day 2 but it really sort of matches emeraldemon's tone from the rest of the day. Despite it being on me, Fonz's vote wasn't really out-of-place and he declared intent to hammer. inHim, kabooooom, and Nobody Special's votes don't really bother me because they were either reading up / away, which could be scum excuses but I doubt it.

So for a concise list ( ) The end-of-day vote count makes me think Sotty7, ABR, emogirl123, Zekrom25, and Garmr are suspicious, in that order.

Wow that was a horrible,horrible, horrible post. So your scum reads list is who ever wasn't voting sland except ABR who is the flavor of the day. Are you just being lazy or even trying at all. Also you seem to be scum reading the brian skies wagon when he had done nothing nothing deserving of a town read.

I will note your passive defense of brian skies with your silent chainsawing

Also me and sland have a thing if we have scum read each other we only poke at each other never really put a full case on. If he has a town read on me he will only respond with playful quotes if I'm poking at him. Through If I stop poking at him and we have a mutual scum read we will work in tandem to get it lynched like theFast and furious game

Catching up on the rest of the thread because I don't know if I have it in me to do yessiree analysis tonight:

Thor665: Basically, I feel like if you don't read Day 1 before starting Day 2, aren't you essentially starting on Day 1 again? Day 1 in all its Fortune gives town a sense of how everyone is playing and posting, plus a plethora of votes and reasons. That feels condescending to say because I find it so simple.

Matias, continuing this thread of thought, why replace in if you're not going to read? I understand you're trying to be helpful, but not re-reading just means you aren't being helpful to the fullest you can be IMO.

Returning to Thor, Fonz's recap from my perspective at least points out why Day 1 is so important, because I find it so incredibly skewed. My initial reasoning for my emogirl vote is that I found her suspicious plus her lynch would be rife with information. I do realize in retrospect that the initial post lacks on why I thought she was suspicious. Additionally, as I did get close to lynch I reread the whole thread and posted a wall-summary of my thoughts in case I was lynched, and in that summary I clarify that I find emogirl so suspicious because of her playstyle and use of terminology (she said she was purposefully "towntelling", for example). I feel that post is responsible for the wagon dying down. Finally--and this is the thing I was disgruntled with most--at the conclusion of that wall I voted Slandaar, making my vote the first. Not exactly the proudest fact, but it's the truth. I also don't see my and emogirl's wagons as opposed as he does. But of course, I realize that Fonz's post for you is a personal perspective, and once again I do think that it comes from a town player.

In that catchup post, Fonz mentions how emogirl wagon supporters have forgotten about her, and I think there are multiple reasons:
a) most of the suspicion stemmed from her playstyle rather than actual scummy things, but also
b) I reiterate that after her wagon's death she did sort of disappear, and then through the Slandaar/emeraldemon/Brian debate her posts were kind of fluffy (she referenced, out of the blue, an essay on synergy?). I think this is scummy.

I Zdenek's points on Sotty7.

Here's another post that has interactions with thor/brian skies replacement. This looks like to me that his trying to push his scum buddy do something he want, it seems like coaching 101. I'll give you some advice on that through Thor scum game is top notch but when you jump on him like that it must frustrate him a little inside.
He also give matias a harsher tone making it look like he threw that in there so his thor interactions wouldn't be noticed.

And finally another reason for trying to push for people off the wagon is because the majority of the scum team is probably crammed on it.











Also Side note Bulba has lost his town read

[Zdenek]

I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

That's not really what's happening. I'm interested in how Thor is thinking.

[Garmr]

I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

That's not really what's happening. I'm interested in how Thor is thinking.

Man brian skies played a shit scum game how will i save this slot -Thor

[Aegor]

why is ABR a good vote other than poor play, bad voting, etc

Unvote, vote Slandaar

regardless you still voted against town

Vote: ABR

Cannot believe that more people are not voting Zekrom25.

VOTE: Zekrom25

This has to go now before it becomes an issue later in the game. Would also be willing to lynch ABR for similar reasons.

That being said, Fonz's wall against NS and ABR is quite compelling.

[Matias]

Chevre, just for the record, I make an attempt to read. You cant expect me to know EVERYTHING thats happened up to this point though. Cut me some slack.

Also, I happen to be going through a lot of real life shit right now. I'm pretty beat down in all of my games right now.

[Sotty7]

emo what do you think of Zekrom now?

Don't know. I find players like Zekrom to be terribly hard to read. Maestro is always scum.

You were pretty convinced he was scum in this game, but then you kinda drifted away from that. Would you still lynch the slot?

A NS vote is extremely tempting but at this point I'm looking to see his reaction to all this. He is really the type of player I would vig night 0 if given the chance, but his voting has been weak so far this game so it could be worth the pursuit.

On that note, Sotty was a fan of my The Goodfather vote and voted Slaandar, so that criticism of hers seems fabricated.

You also have votes on Aegor, emeraldemon and ABR that are all pretty terrible. Why are you pushing on ABR today and not emeraldemon? What do you think of Fonz #985? I just see you jumping from place to place with relative easy and no real conviction with any of your votes. You ask questions but I don't feel any pressure from you. Combined this with my earlier scum read of your slot before you replaced in and I'm not liking it much at all

Vote: Zdenek

Sadly, it is well within ABR's meta to...well, flat out lie to make a case when he is town.

You don't think that NS's play is within his meta?

Defend with a deflection back. Have you played with ABR before? Your probe on Thor can be flipped and applied to you.

[Sotty7]

I still need to take a look at bulb and again I skimmed over Chreve but I will take a look at those couple of posts as well.

[Thor665]

I'm just curious why you would defend ABR using the argument that he's playing within his meta, but do the same for NS.

Because the ABR wagon felt bad - the NS one doesn't.
Again, I don't feel like I've been subtle in my thoughts here, I came around pretty quick to not liking the ABR wagon, and I felt my transition was rather super obvious when it happened.
Conversely, why are you so worried about the NS wagon, but are totally fine with the ABR one?

Thor665: Basically, I feel like if you don't read Day 1 before starting Day 2, aren't you essentially starting on Day 1 again? Day 1 in all its Fortune gives town a sense of how everyone is playing and posting, plus a plethora of votes and reasons. That feels condescending to say because I find it so simple.

So...what you think I might miss is "a sense of how everyone is playing and posting" which is something I can get from, y'know, asking people their takes on Day 1 (which, amusingly, already has people disagreeing about how Day 1 went down - which is pro town to have discussion about) and also I miss "votes and reasons" which, if I need to, I can iso those specific bits out later if wanted.

So...yes, I think my method has validity in how I'm doing it.

Were there any big events that you think I missed? I mean, not like generic "Sense" events but "these three posts" type events? Anything you think might really affect my read of one or more players? I'd read that stuff, if you can dial it in. What do you think, of import, happened Day 1?

My initial reasoning for my emogirl vote is that I found her suspicious plus her lynch would be rife with information.

Is she still a good lynch now?

In that catchup post, Fonz mentions how emogirl wagon supporters have forgotten about her, and I think there are multiple reasons:
a) most of the suspicion stemmed from her playstyle rather than actual scummy things, but also
b) I reiterate that after her wagon's death she did sort of disappear, and then through the Slandaar/emeraldemon/Brian debate her posts were kind of fluffy (she referenced, out of the blue, an essay on synergy?). I think this is scummy.

a) That seems a bad reason to suspect someone.
b) So you're saying she avoided discussing the main wagons?

@Emogirl - I note that you disagree with Chevre - can you quote me a moment or two of you discussing the main wagons once you were no longer the focus?

I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

That's not really what the discussion is about.

What is your read on Chevre?

Thor scum game is top notch but when you jump on him like that it must frustrate him a little inside.

Why must that frustrate me to have my scumbuddy jump on me? I'm pretty sure part of my usual commentary to scumbuddies is 'feel free to bus me' so I'm curious why you think this.

[Zekrom] has to go now before it becomes an issue later in the game. Would also be willing to lynch ABR for similar reasons.

That being said, Fonz's wall against NS and ABR is quite compelling.

So, you are willing to lynch Zekrom or ABR for the same reasons?
Also, Fonz's wall against ABR is compelling.
...why wouldn't you vote ABR right now? Why are you voting Zekrom first?

Unvote: Nobody Special
Vote: Aegor

Serious vote.

[Nobody Special]

I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

That's not really what the discussion is about.

What is your read on Chevre?

Ineffectual town.

[Zdenek]

You also have votes on Aegor, emeraldemon and ABR that are all pretty terrible. Why are you pushing on ABR today and not emeraldemon? What do you think of Fonz #985?

So, what's your read on Aegor, you haven't given one yet, and what is your current read on ABR?

I'm voting on ABR today for the reason that I gave recently and because I felt like pushing a wagon to see what would come of it.

Fonz's 985 is fine, but less relevant to what I'm thinking about than Thor's 1016.

Defend with a deflection back. Have you played with ABR before? Your probe on Thor can be flipped and applied to you.

I wasn't being attacked, so I wasn't defending, and that accusation is bullshit.
I'm okay with my probe on Thor being able to be turned around, I'm not sure why you think that is relevant at all.

Conversely, why are you so worried about the NS wagon, but are totally fine with the ABR one?

I'm not worried about that NS wagon, I'm worried about you.

[Zdenek]

Also, Fonz's wall against ABR is compelling.

What?

Albert was on every major wagon except Brian's. He jumped the first two, but started the Slandaar and Emerald wagons and is now imho being scapegoated for them.

or are you reading something else?

[Garmr]

[quote="In

Thor scum game is top notch but when you jump on him like that it must frustrate him a little inside.

Why must that frustrate me to have my scumbuddy jump on me? I'm pretty sure part of my usual commentary to scumbuddies is 'feel free to bus me' so I'm curious why you think this.

When I refer to jump I mean his smothering you with buddy tells (passive chainsawing of your wagon,coaching ). It's pretty obvious he isn't bussing.

[Thor665]

Ineffectual town.

Why town?

Also, Fonz's wall against ABR is compelling.

What?

Albert was on every major wagon except Brian's. He jumped the first two, but started the Slandaar and Emerald wagons and is now imho being scapegoated for them.

or are you reading something else?

Why are you skimming the game?

When I refer to jump I mean his smothering you with buddy tells (passive chainsawing of your wagon,coaching ). It's pretty obvious he isn't bussing.

Why would that bother me?

[Aegor]

So, you are willing to lynch Zekrom or ABR for the same reasons?

No; similar reasons. I think zekrom is scum and would rather he be eliminated now because my limited meta on him suggests that his posts will absolutely not provide any material for solid reads in the future. Similar reasoning can be applied to ABR.

Also, Fonz's wall against ABR is compelling.
...why wouldn't you vote ABR right now? Why are you voting Zekrom first?

What the fuck kind of question is this? I find zekrom more scummy and I want him gone with more urgency than I want ABR gone. Why would I be compelled to vote someone just because I find a case on that player compelling, thereby ignoring all other cases and my own reads on all other players?

Serious

Terribad vote.

FTFY

[Zdenek]

Why are you skimming the game?

I ISO'd The Fonz. I seriously have no idea what post you are referring to.

[Zdenek]

I see, it's about Aegor. Well he can tell me what post he is referring to as well.

[Zdenek]

Actually, since I know that there isn't one, he doesn't have to bother.

[Thor665]

I find zekrom more scummy and I want him gone with more urgency than I want ABR gone.

Why?
Your posts seemed to express equality between them though mentioned that someone else's commentary was favorable to you, and that was about ABR, so why do you believe the less supported wagon should go first, and why did you vote it over an ABR wagon?

Why are you skimming the game?

I ISO'd The Fonz. I seriously have no idea what post you are referring to.

How about you read the post you're quoting me from again, and then answer why you're skimming the game.
Especially if you want me to believe you're town.

[Aegor]

What do I need to do?

[Aegor]

Your posts seemed to express equality between them though mentioned that someone else's commentary was favorable to you,

The fact that I voted for zekrom tells those who are not brain-dead that I do not view the two players as equally deserving of imminent expulsion from the game.

and that was about ABR, so why do you believe the less supported wagon should go first, and why did you vote it over an ABR wagon?

I really do not give a shit which wagon has more votes unless deadline is looming and I want a lynch. I already told you why zekrom got my vote over ABR.

[Zdenek]

How about you read the post you're quoting me from again, and then answer why you're skimming the game.

Already done.
I'm not skimming, but I asked you about the post, since you asked Aegor about voting ABR.

[Thor665]

The fact that I voted for zekrom tells those who are not brain-dead that I do not view the two players as equally deserving of imminent expulsion from the game.

It certainly suggests that you might have had a reason, even if you seem unable to express it - yes.
I'm just looking to have it expressed.

I already told you why zekrom got my vote over ABR.

Well...you said you wanted him lynched with more urgency. But that should be part of the conclusion. you think he's more likely scum, therefore you want him lynched more.
I'm curious how you got to the 'more likely scum' part - clarify?

[Thor665]

How about you read the post you're quoting me from again, and then answer why you're skimming the game.

Already done.
I'm not skimming, but I asked you about the post, since you asked Aegor about voting ABR.

I don't think your question to me suggests you read my post that you're complaining about.
It suggests you skimmed it. If you read it fully - why did you ask me what you asked me?