Micro 295: Cowardly Hider Mafia (Game Over)

[Ghatokaca]

Quote it.

[penguin_alien]

Don't like Xayzeck's NK spec. That with the day start vote back on Ghatokaca that he didn't back up and the switch to GiF for something that had happened when he'd first voted all adds up to Xayzeck-scum.

VOTE: Xayzeck

I believe that's L-1.

How does any of this add up to Xay scum?

I thought it looked like scum posturing in that he put his vote back on you without trying to convince anyone that it was a good vote based on the new information that was available at least with BRO's flip. He then came to the 'realization' that GiF had done something scummy. For reference, here's the post sequence:

VOTE: Ghato

I can't do ISOs right now, I'm putting my vote back where it was for now. If you have questions for me I'll get to them in about 12 hours.

Tries to see if the default Ghatokaca wagon'll take off.

What I don't get is the night kill. Why would scum kill bubba, when you could kill someone like Varsoon? I don't think people would hide behind bubba, and tbh he wasn't exactly super town.

Conversation doesn't go where he wants it to; attempted redirect.

I think scum were expecting the hiders not to hide, since it's pretty established already that hiding only helps scum. And of all the people, bubba?

I don't like how GiF just hammered Bro without hesitation though. Though I doubt scum would do something that dumb, I'll call it scummy.

VOTE: GiF

And now he notices the GiF hammer? Obviously I was wrong, but it all felt very contrived at the time.

Varsoon's hammer was crap, but I don't think there was scum motivation there in sealing a lynch on town that wasn't in danger of being derailed. I was going to suggest that we hypo-claim hiding targets in the event of hammer intent being declared to be implemented if the lynch flipped scum, but any such plans would have also helped scum in terms of information. Scum had no reason to do that, so I'll call Varsoon lousy town for it.

I still like my take on Ghatokaca's approach to BRO. I think I like Nacho coming in and engaging everyone. As scum who basically missed D2, he could wash his hands of making decisions or taking the lead if he wanted to. I might be reading too much into it, and I think I've only found scum-Nacho once in X-Men and had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. Tentatively townish.

That leaves notscience and Jessica. I tend to think only one of them is scum, given how much this game premise could have swung in our favor if we'd hit scum with room to spare. Which makes one of my town reads wrong.

Jessica felt spontaneous with the independent hydra heads posting, but I wasn't seeing the expected Marquis if they're town, for better or worse I still don't know.

notscience, what do you mean about GiF targeting you? He upgraded you, yeah, but it's pretty fuzzy, and I'd think if he'd targeted you, he'd have hinted at it in his hammer post, since he was the only one who could crumb before the hammer, since he didn't declare intent. Otherwise it's a potential waste of a hide, never mind the commuting possibilities.

More later when I have time to read D1 again. I'm pretty sure there's scum in Jessica-notscience, but the unlikelihood of them being scum together makes me not sure about the game picture.

[notscience]

Hey I have a question.

If you happen to be scum with Xay, how would your N1 play go?

1) Well yeah I'm bussing him for towncred

2) I don't really get what you mean. Who would I kill?

Probably Nacho because from my understanding he knows Xay and he's one of the group I'm terrified of as scum

The whole night action plan. Who would commute, who would kill whom, etc

Kill stays the same.

I'm a greedy motherfucker who wants all the glory so I'd probably make him kill

I see.

Although I do see what you're getting after in this question line.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon, please don't pull dumb shit like that ever again.

D:
I thought it'd flip scum and everyone would be like "Varsoon so best" and then we'd win
And with GiF dead and town I'm pretty much lost so
Gonna spend forever internally waffling before doing anything ever again.

[Cabd]

Votecount 3-1

With 5 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch or nolynch.

Not voting: All you blokes.

[notscience]

Varsoon, thoughts on D3 so far

[Jessica]

Unfortunately, I can't get my vengeance by tunneling notscience to the ground.

VOTE: Ghato

[Jessica]

Come on, you call that a tunnel?

You should be howling and screaming to the skies for people to vote me, for me to selfvote because I'm

just that scummy

Where is it?

Yo, Marquis/Hannah.

Vote me, push me for a while, whatever.

When you realize I'm town I'll be waiting to chat about the game.

Basically, if notscience were scum he could've possibly commuted during the first night because we were obviously going to hide behind him (to prevent our death flip from immediately incriminating him). Second day completely punches a hole in this theory though, had he commuted for our second hide on him we would've died, and they'd immediately win by majority. So either he completely missed the opportunity to win the game or he's just town. Unfortunately I don't thin he's the type to slip up like that as scum so I'm assuming the latter.

Ghato's immediate push on notscience seems as if he's going to work with our tunneling to just flat out end the game.

unvote

Actually I want more responses, I forgot scum can just kind of immediately hammer.

[Ghatokaca]

Hi Penguin,
I was not caught up with this game for a long time but I am on my re-read and think that you are scum. Is this the time I get revenge for you kicking my butt in ETL's Resistance?

None of your posts make any sense from what I would expect you to do as town. You are careful, cautious, and your positions are hilariously scummy. I am coming for you beware. Just wait till I finish reading the thread.

I am not sure I'll be able to get my revenge because Jessica feels town as fuck and have just voted and unvoted us so you could still win but I sure as hell am going to try!

~ F-16

[Varsoon]

@jess: How would you have died if Notsci commuted on N2?
I think i'm reading wrong
my thoughts are a poop

[Katarina LeBlanc]

If I hid behind Notscience had he not commuted we would've died. That death, along with their regular nightkill means that the game.

There is no reason for scum

not

to commute because a Hider getting on them would mean them winning.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

err no reason for scum to commute* euahsufhaseifrh.

Just. He's town.

Okay.

[Jessica]

If I hid behind Notscience had he not commuted we would've died. That death, along with their regular nightkill means that the game.

There is no reason for scum

not

to commute because a Hider getting on them would mean them winning.

err no reason for scum to commute* euahsufhaseifrh.

Just. He's town.

Okay.

Hydra slip

[notscience]

It's fucking stupid that I had to be checked by two hiders 3 times before you all realize I'm town >.>

[penguin_alien]

Hi F-16,

I'm pretty sure you're town here as per my theory on your approach to BRO day one, so I'd rather you didn't mislynch me here as a substitute for not managing it in 264. I'm planning to run through some double ISOs tomorrow, see what I'm missing in terms of possible scum teams, because people aren't making sense in isolation. Tonight I'm not going to have the energy though, sorry.

I've read Jessica's post a few times and still don't follow their logic. I'm inclined to think that they're town for being so unclear, but I want to evaluate a notscience-Varsoon scum team to see if that makes this game make sense or if I'm misreading one of you hydras.

--PA

P-edit: I think I follow Jessica's logic, but I'm also not sure why anyone would risk hiding last night at all, which makes me suspicious. This got weird again.

[Jessica]

I am highly doubting that notscience is scum in any matter.

Also it was the Marquis head that told me to hide, I didn't really object because I only figured out that we were in LyLo early on today. If you want me to be completely honest, I was planning on voting notscience because I figured he'd commute twice, but then someone brought up LyLo and that possibility was just completely gone.

[Jessica]

Well, it could be possible that he

did

commute not knowing the game would end if someone visited him, but that's just wishing for incompetence on his side.

[notscience]

I'm a hider btw

Haven't hidden

Don't intend to

[Varsoon]

If I hid behind Notscience had he not commuted we would've died. That death, along with their regular nightkill means that the game.

There is no reason for scum

not

to commute because a Hider getting on them would mean them winning.

You're not thinking about this enough.
Scum wouldn't be guaranteed a win because if they hit a hiding hider, they'd have a no-kill.
It makes sense then that in a 2-man scum team, a strong play would be one person hiding and one person killing, especially at this point in the game, since going into MyLo/LyLo with others claiming "Oh hey I hid on him and didn't die, conftown I guess" is

exactly

what scum want to survive.

I'm fucking exasperated. There's no useful info to gain out of claiming a surviving hide on a player. Scum can fake it, scum can commute, so on and so forth.
It. Isn't. Reliable.

So, instead, let's actually play the game. You know, where we look at posts, read vote counts, analyze everything that's ACTUALLY IN THE GAME FOR EVERYONE TO SEE AND CANNOT BE ALTERED. Because that's what playing mafia is. That's how people should play mafia. PRs and fake-claims and all that shit muddy the purity of what GOOD PLAYERS can achieve in a vanilla setting. We could spend eons wifoming shit that's not capable of confirmation until post-game, or we could actually, you know, play the damn game at hand.

[Jessica]

or I could be right.

I'm playing to the mechanics as I see fit, not how you want to vanilla it. I'd prefer taking it from my theory rather than going balls deep into vanilla because from my point of view I can see a 2/3 chance of lynching scum just due to mechanics and that sounds swell to me. Not to mention I can analyze who I want to read judging from their reaction to how I hid behind notsci and take into account partnerships.

You might play the game

your

way but I play the game mine. Mafia is only as linear as you want it to be.

[notscience]

Varsoon is still town

[Jessica]

Also you're completely missing the point of the theme. There is a reason that this isn't vanilla, and that's because we're given a tool that may or may not benefit the town from using it. In this situation, we used it both nights on notscience so that our flip would speak louder than our case.

I'd like to assume that given the nature of the game, scum were given the option of commuting as a tool to pressure hiders with WIFOM. That pressure is being applied by Penguin now.

If we analyze her recent posts, she feels that Ghato is strong town and believes that there is scum between notscience and our hydra. If you're going to PoE this, then that would leave Varsoon as her out as a scumpartner. Why is she not pressure Varsoon?

[notscience]

Because that brings his attention onto her, obvi

why is noone questioning my action choices

[Varsoon]

You can play that way, but you run too much risk of losing the game -for the rest of us- by assuming from unreliable info only you might or might not have.

I've already explained the entire mechanic is too easy to be manipulated by scum.


Notsci, what action choices?
No-hide?
Cus I haven't hidden all game either.

[notscience]

Yeah

It was a mixture of not crumbing and sheeping a townread