Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Idiotking]

Howso?

[Natirasha]

Vote Count 2.24

MafiaSSK(0):

Cabd(0):

Selkies(4):

MafiaSSK, Bert, Aronis, notscience

zMuffinMan(0):

notscience(0):

The Goodfather(1):

Selkies

Nachomamma8(0):

Bert(0):

Aronis(2):

Idiotking, Guyett

Idiotking(1):

Nachomamma8

Guyett(0):

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(3):

zMuffinMan, Cabd, The Goodfather

With eleven alive, it takes six to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2014-02-19 21:00:00)

[Aronis]

It was a basic F11 setup, with four possibilities. N0 scum attempted a kill and it was blocked, which conf a Doc in the game. So either there was a Town Doc and Cop and Scum Blocker or just the doctor. So D2 he claimed cop saying who he had investigated. So he called out his scum partner as scum and we lynched them basically confirming him. Then he was RB every night afterwords and convinced the town to lynch me and others to win.

It's unlikely which makes it the perfect scum strategy.

[Idiotking]

...Ok... so what?

[Aronis]

I thought you wanted an explanation?

[Idiotking]

Oh, sorry, I meant, how was I taking that post overboard?

[Selkies]

GoodFather Day 1

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

Speak for yourself.

dude im town this game

And apparently an easy lynch. :/

I swear to god I

will

vote you.

This is why hydras give me migraines...

Seriously, you guys are playing achingly pro-scum so far, regardless of your actual alignment. It's basically 6 pages of meaningless clutter.

Agreed, the first 6 pages were almost entirely you three: {selkies, cabd, and mafiaSSK}. Given the sheer amount of spam, it is likely one of these three is scum, out of the three, I'd say SSK is my strongest town read because of his interactions with idiotking on page 11. Specifically post 270, in response from post 261 from idiot king. And on that note,

I get a strong town vibe from idiotking. His posts seem genuine, and his desire for justified votes is not only reasonable, its downright common sense. On a similar note, I find that ross williams has a similar post style to idiotking, I hope neither of you mind that association. I also liked his thoughts on selkies in 291.

In fact, selkies is my biggest scum read: spamming pages 1-6. Conversations between hydra heads like in the quote above, orcinus slipping and posting as himself several times, seeming to look for easy lynches, etc...

so, VOTE: Selkies

here is a tentative list of other reads:
Town:
Ross williams,
idiotking

null leaning town:
Bert
katsuki (asked some dec questions, although his initlal comment about rule 6 was more similar to my interpretation than that of others)
mafiaSSK (already talked about a bit.)

null:
muffin man (his post style really throws me off)
Four Trouble (been going back and forth on their posts. Gonna stay null til I hear more)


null leaning scum:
Cabd(overactivity first 6 pages, and then suddenly disappearing. Could just actually be sick. Could be avoiding the spotlight)
Selkies,
kabooooom and kingkenny and other lurkers
aronis (seems to be attempting to blend)


on a side note, I realize not all my null leaning scum leads are likely to be scum, but I prefer to be skeptical of people until I get a clearer town read. Its safer that way than assuming everyone is town until they act scummy.

^^ This was GF's first substantive post (aside from a post supporting katsuki's comment about the voting mechanic). The stuff I didn't like about it at the time I still don't like. There's a lot of hedge to some of these reads, and his vote choice (us) looked opportunistic both for the reasoning (including parroting complaints that other players made to get us to change our posting style and frequency, but calling it scummy) and the timing: 4th on the wagon, which pushed us over the halfway mark. It's where newbscum votes often fall, especially if the player isn't super aggressive.

Cabd(overactivity first 6 pages, and then suddenly disappearing. Could just actually be sick. Could be avoiding the spotlight)

Listen up asshole, because I'm only gonna tell you this once.

Mafia is a game. You can insult my play. You can insult my reads. You can insult my logic. But you know what you don't do? You sure as fuck don't trivialize an illness I was born with, and can cite the existence of in plenty of other places, as me abusing my honor. I get stomach acid piped up my throat daily, and I've been having that happen since the day I was born. Some days are easier, some days are harder. This past week has been a flurry of "harder" ones. Go google "Gastric reflux" and then go sit in the corner and feel like shit until you apologize.

Up until I read the last line, i was prepared to apologize.
1) I have ever played with you before, so I would have no reason or occasion to recall your illness.

2)I never said anything about your honor, but the way you responded makes me think that you have none, or more likely, thatyou are scum.


Everyones got something to bitch about in their life, the difference is not everyone uses it as a crutch. Take a tums or some fucking alka seltzer. No need to rip off my head for an observation that your activity has decreased substantially. And if you really wanted an apology, you might try in the future to be less of a dickhead

^^ This post also bugged me when it hit the thread because of how reactive it was. You can argue that Cabd was also reactive but he had the actual excuse of being ill. GF upped the ante in a way that added nothing to the game, and it stands out given his low-key play for most of the rest of the game. I find that when there's tension in a game, some scum players will look controlled and calm until they suddenly don't. This was an overreaction and I think it was a scummy overreaction.

In fact, selkies is my biggest scum read: spamming pages 1-6. Conversations between hydra heads like in the quote above, orcinus slipping and posting as himself several times, seeming to look for easy lynches, etc...

How is conversing between hydra heads scummy?

Its spam. I have never been in a hydra, but i've read that the heads of hydras can communicate with one another outside the game thread. If that is the case with you, then head to head conversations between hydra are literally spamming the thread with fluff. Scummy

How is hydra slipping scummy?

Yet again, its spam. Especially if you and your other head can talk to one another outside the thread. I don't know for sure that this is the case, but as this is my current understanding of how hydra's operate, it seems scummy to do these things. Correct me if I am wrong, and i will reconsider my read on you. @mod, can you clarify how hydras work in this game. Do they talk to one another off thread, maybe in a qt or pms, or is their only means of communication in the game thread itself?

How are we looking for easy lynches?

What is etc?

this is what I am talking about I don't know which head i'm talking to, but you may say you are looking for scum on easy lynch wagons, but you may just be looking for a convenient scapegoat to lynch dp1.

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

I'm not the head who made the observation out loud, but in many games players are familiar enough with each other to know who are likely lynchbait, who are bus-candidates if they are scum, etc. One of the places I look for scum is on the "easy lynch" wagons.

Just by the fucking way we will play our hydra how we want to play our hydra

Some hydras want to be unified. Others (like us) have two players with very distinct styles and we might not want to force ourselves into a playstyle that neither is comfortable with. That is our goddamn prerogative.

And yeah if you read any of our past games we do talk inthread a lot. We normally pull things to skype when we wanna match reads, but aside from that we sort of each do our own thing.

Also the argument that hydra slipping is scummy is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. I phone post a lot and so I don't always remind myself to switch accounts.

95% of my posts are focused on the game. The other 5% are "fluff" because I do play this game for fun. And guess what? I do have fun by having banter with fery inthread, by poking cabd. How on earth is this scum indicative?

haha, I'm not telling you how to play. That would be extremely hypocritical of me as a new member, and i don't think anything i've said can be viewed or construed as me telling you how to play. I was merely giving my reads and justifying my vote. You obviously disagree, as is your prerogative. As I've said, I am wary of hydras, and I will continue to be as long as they remain unknown to me. That may be simple minded, but i have found that skepticism is often justified in this game, especially this early in the game

Don't get me wrong, I still think you are scum, and it is not just because you are a hydra. You may have called it the stupidest thing you've seen all day, but I still think you guys unnecessarily spammed the first 1/3 of this thread. Also, I will not change my vote just because you are trying to belittle my read by saying its the stupidest thing you've heard all day. You confirmed my thought that you communicated with one another outside the thread. Just because you say you converse with one another in thread for the sake of the other players being able to differentiate between the two of you does not mean your posts are any less spam. I have gone over the first 6 pages several times now, and each time i feel more confident in this.

Add to the fact that my one vote has both hydra heads biting at me further confirms my belief that you are scum.

This is a reaction to orcinus. It looks to me like he knew that the “oooh hydra – unknown = scum” read is weak and shallow. So why not build on the case? And why not work to develop a better read. Arguably he has interacted with us more than with any other player in the game, and it's mostly because we kept up the conversation with him until he faded out during late day 1.

kinda sick and forgot about game iwll post

someday

maybe

... ... take all the time you need ...

This came after a post from him promising content of his own that he hadn't yet produced. His post wasn't delayed too long after that, but I thought it was interesting that after his “I'll catch up later post” didn't get any backwash, he jumped on Katsuki this way. This once again feels like he was using irritability that others expressed as a leaping-off-point.

I'm pretty sure it's also a proven scum meta of mine that if I'm providing concrete thoughts and cases I'm scum, so no thanks I'm not gonna do that this game haha.

so why are you an asset to the town if this is how you play? What reason should you stay in the game for. You only make conrete thoughts and cases when you're scum, so you are basically a useless townie...

Gamestate without reading the game? Damn this is gonna be a hard one.

I'd say, selkie scum is wagoned, partnerbert and selkiescum are doing all they can to get a counterwagon going but it's not working well.
Then you have a bunch of other ppl who are useless/scum. Not sure which were the ones who called me scum or a good policy lynch/jester outside of fourtrouble, but that's a really bad assessment to be making if town (who the fuck just leaves it at

"oh this jester or policy lynch is good watch me say this as I do not look for scum"

).
Actually typing this post right now I really need to go back and look (or you can do it for me <3). But yeah I at least found my scum, there are too many who aren't even scumhunting and looking for easy wagons or leaving the backdoor open

if a katsuki-wagon pops up (those are probably your selkie scumbuddies)

.

closest thing you've done that resembles scum hunting. You basically are only saying that if selkies is scum, then bert is scum too.

Oh and lets not forget you basically saying anyone who votes for me is scum. I can't ever recall hearing of a pre-meditated omgus, thats almost impressive... almost

@Katsuki, any ETA for a catchup?

Probably never. (while I'd love to say maybe, it has never happened in the 3+ yrs I've been here so)

Is this how you typically play? Not making cases, putting pressure, or even reading the thread??

How does that work out for you?

I still am suspicious of selkies, and i realize the following two things:

1 - if i am suspicious of selkies, why vote for the same person as them?
- because i have been rethinking my initial selkies read for the last few days. In that time, katsuki has done less than nothing.

2 - If i am suspicious of selkies, why am i voting for someone that is also suspicious of selkies?

- because i don't get think katsuki's read is genuine. He even admitted that he wouldn't be making concrete cases, so at best his reads are gut instinct. It feels as if he is just agreeing with what a lot of people were saying at the time, that selkies was scummy.

UNVOTE: Selkies

VOTE: Katsuki

also not a fan of bert's self-hammer threat, but i understand the tactic. I just happen to disagree with it in this case.

This vote pings for all sorts of reasons, and he obviously knew it would ping. At this point our wagon had totally collapsed, and he goes for what had to appear like low hanging fruit, even following his scum read onto the wagon. More shallow reasoning and his reason for voting Katsuki – that he had been following the crowd wrt to our wagon – was false, and actually fits his own voting behavior better than Katsuki's.

my understanding of neighborhoods is that not all members necessarily have the same affiliation.

So can the three of you really be sure of each others affiliation? I doubt that you would have outed yourselves if you were the scum team, so it is likely that 1 or more are town, but there is also no guarantee that you are all town. Is this understanding of neighborhoods correct @natirasha??

A lot of stating the obvious here, which I'd consider newbie-null in a more charitable mood.

This was his last post on day 1, iirc. He had no influence at all over the actual lynch.

Day 2 up next. It shouldn't take as long.

[Selkies]

I still like Katsuki for town.

Something to note- the wagons are tri-voting. (ie they're voting eachother in a triangle).

I like Katsuki for town.

Why was this something to note? What's the significance of this voting pattern?

[Selkies]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

Could you at least explain this vote?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

is this supposed to mean that you jumped on the selkies wagon simply because she upset you by saying 'you stupid fucker'??

its like 5 am now, but i am all caught up. i am gonna try to post a list of reads tomorrow after work

i voted for katsuke yesterday, and it seems like his/her scummy behavior has not stopped with a new dp.

VOTE: Katsuki

I hope there is a better explanation for your vote other than ^ that post in reply to aronis.

Goodfather's a solid wagon, although I want to see him say something in response to the wagons. It's hard to pinpoint any of his posts as townie-looking or scumhunting.

Ffery has been extremely meh this game, which is not a good sign.

Katsuki feels like the person scum came into today wanting to mislynch - hence the rampant "OMG Katsuki is scum" comments coming out at the start of today - a darn easy mislynch too. The way Goodfather joined that wagon looked bad and unreal.

The point is most of GF's posts have been centered around "oh, this is what I understand about neighborhoods,' or "Ffery doesn't post enough in this game, therefore is scum," or "Katsuki is scum because he/she isn't scumhunting." That's what the bulk of his posts come down to, and that's not really enough for me in terms of contribution.

Vote: The Goodfather

There, I talked myself into doing something other than being lazy, and moving my vote

You liked this vote at the time. What changed?

[Selkies]

I'll talk about the first quote in that post later.

[Bert]

What changed is you started voting him and I've thought you're scum all along.

[Bert]

I went off Ross after I saw you on the wagon, and switched to Aronis on D1 last minute. Then, when IK started telling me he/she thought I was trying to force a NL with a few hours left, and then notscience came in and said he preferred Ross rather than Aronis whom he had voted earlier, I caved and voted who you voted...and then Ross flipped town (surprise).

[Selkies]

What changed is you started voting him and I've thought you're scum all along.

Thought experiment. Assume for I dunno 5 minutes that I'm town or that I'm not in the game at all. Now, what's your actual opinion of GF's play?

I went off Ross after I saw you on the wagon, and switched to Aronis on D1 last minute. Then, when IK started telling me he/she thought I was trying to force a NL with a few hours left, and then notscience came in and said he preferred Ross rather than Aronis whom he had voted earlier, I caved and voted who you voted...and then Ross flipped town (surprise).

And your following me at that point when you were calling me scum and saying you'd start with your vote on me today gave me a really bad feeling about the lynch. I got over it. I don't know why you voted that way, but half the time in this game (and in other games we've played) I don't get why you're voting who you're voting, because you move your vote places that don't agree at all with your stances.

[Bert]

Well, I said that in 1526 too. If I'm tunneled onto you and you aren't showing signs of really becoming engaged and getting on with it (like before your case on GF - which came 13 days late following your vote which was empty before), then of course I'm going to say I'm going to vote you D2 to see what you do.

Opinion of GF's play is scum, and I think I've explained while a while back, but I'll have to find it. He hasn't been here active much for most of D2.

[Selkies]

And we make sense as groupscum. :/

[Bert]

I said I think GF's scum under the condition that I assumed for a minute that you are town.

[Selkies]

I said I think GF's scum under the condition that I assumed for a minute that you are town.

Actually no, you implied that you have a separate scum read of him, or had one.

[Bert]

Yes, I did have a separate one on him before I developed one on you solidly. But I went away from him as a priority after seeing you push him.

[Bert]

Earlier separate read beforehand (evidence):

Spoiler:

SSK or Goodfather, ideally for me. What do you think of Goodfather?

I could see a <Goodfather, SSK, Ross> pool. I don't really feel like Goodfather has been scumhunting - his last posts have said a lot but haven't added much. I thought the initial case he had on Selkies' postcount being less as scum - I thought that case was misguided town.

Speaking of opportunistic votes (as an opportunistic voter myself), Ross's Vote and then Unvote of Aronis both came at awkward times and with little explanation (the vote) or "I'm scared of a derphammer" comments (the unvote).

Unvote: Aronis

IdiotKing, were you aware you just put him at -1 without mentioning it? Are you hoping he'll just "accidently" end up lynched?

I can get behind this little Aronis wagon

VOTE: Aronis

Anyways, Goodfather hasn't done anything remotely useful-looking lately, and the vote on Katsuki (and then going back to lurking) is not looking promising. And SSK has disappeared - shocker!

[Selkies]

Yes, I did have a separate one on him before I developed one on you solidly. But I went away from him as a priority after seeing you push him.

Ok.

I'm going to finish my day 2 stuff and then I'm basically going to ignore you for the rest of the game day. You can make what you will of my opinion on GF.

[Bert]

Sounds good. GF wagon will probably work if you push it and appear to believe in it...

Your case on GF is decent, but for some reason you delayed everything with apathy until 2 days prior to deadline when you ended up at Lynch -1.

[Selkies]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

Could you at least explain this vote?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

is this supposed to mean that you jumped on the selkies wagon simply because she upset you by saying 'you stupid fucker'??

its like 5 am now, but i am all caught up. i am gonna try to post a list of reads tomorrow after work

i voted for katsuke yesterday, and it seems like his/her scummy behavior has not stopped with a new dp.

VOTE: Katsuki

I hope there is a better explanation for your vote other than ^ that post in reply to aronis.

This was his beginning stance of day 2. No comment the two competing wagons that ended in Ross' lynch at the end of the day. Nothing about the huge discussion of my meta and the NK choice. 2 flips and another wagon on us, and none of it appears to have affected his take from day 1.

His next significant post was his reads list. I asked him some questions about the list here:

So I am gonna be busy taking care of family stuff irl for the next day or two, so i thought i'd post now before i won't have a chance to. Seems like i have a wagon on me, and it seems like its nobody's fault but mine for not being particularly active this game. I don't wanna to be lynched today, so here a breakdown of how i see the game so far:

1. MafiaSSK* - 135 ( seemingly blindly accepts a case on katsuki), 166 (another blind acceptance of a selkies lynch), 231 (gets convinced by selkies of a muffin lynch) 236 and 914 (defends aronis the first time, then jumps on the lynch)

over 100 plus posts with almost no content, multiple vote shifts with little to no justification except for blindly accepting other arguments. 270 is the only semblance of scumhunting

SSK is one of my scum reads

2. Cabd - town; seems to be scumhunting in earnest

3. Selkies(fferyllt+orcinus_theoriginal) - null; not sure about selkies. Still adjusting to hydras

4. zMuffinMan - null leaning town; his playstyle is very foreign to me, a lot of his posts lack justification, but it seems as if he reserves his reasoning for posts like 590. out of the three in the neighborhood, he is 2nd most likely to be town imo (after IK and before aronis)

6. notscience King Kenny - null leaning town; this read is a lot my read on bert. Their posts, also kinda like nachos are more conversational than i am used to. i am also thrown off by the whole in thread qt thing they have going on.

7. The Goodfather** - town

8. Nachomamma8 kabooooom - like bert and NS, i am getting a mostly null vibe, but i am leaning scum just because that was how i read his slot while kaboooom was playing.

9. Bert Karlos4 - same as not science, null leaning town

11. Aronis** - scum (most likely scum in the neighborhood). He has changed his votes almost 10 times, altogether voting for 6 or 7 different people, with little to no reasoning each time. seems to just hop on whatever wagon is convenient

12. Idiotking* - like his playstyle, and i think he is the most likely town in the neighborhood

13. Katsuki* - scum - seems to be trying to skate by without doing anything. Maybe his meta, but if this is his town game, he is not an asset to our game at all

those are my thoughts.

I am gonna try to post more in the next couple of days, but i may be busy.

How did you develop a read on kaboooom?

What's the basis for your pushing us to scum to null? You haven't changed the reasoning at all from what I can tell.

What's the basis for your notsci town lean? You've described stuff about his style of play, but there's nothing about what's alignment indicative to it. And how the hell can you characterize bert's play as similar to notsci's in any meaningful way?

They reason why I asked about his kaboooom read is because he's scumreading Nacho on the basis of having developed a scum read on kaboooom.


I want to know where in this:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

he found the data to develop a scum read, especially since his other reads have been so influenced by other players' irritabilities.

The other two reads I asked about, I don't want to say why at this time.

I agree with the ssk lynch. I said so in my post post 1297

It also looks like my vote on katsuki is not doing much. A lot of people have said they would policy lynch katsuki, but no one has acted on it

UNVOTE: katsuki

VOTE: SSK

In this post, he gives up on the katsuki wagon. He's acknowledging most of the lynch sentiment there was policy, but he said he was reading katsuki as scum. The easy flip here to another scum read feels off, mostly because if he genuinely thought Katsuki was scum, "oh well, policy lynch not happening is a bad reason to drop the push.

i'm willing to say that you shouldn't replace out either even tho you have a scum read on me. I just want people to be participative and actively giving reads and justification. I am still new to this game so im sure I can only do so much, but it sounds like you could be a great asset to the town if you wanted to be.

And here it looks like the scum read has completely disappeared. He's unvoted SSK, and now the question is where to next?

with aronis' vote on selkies, both he and selkies are l-3. We've got like 3 days to figure out what to do this dp. If we can't decide by then nati will take a random shot to figure out who is lynched.

As of now bert, both nacho's vote for IK and ffery/selkies vote on me are not accomplishing anything.

I am inclined to say that SSK should targeted by the cop tonight. Ideally it would be a rolecop so we can verify his claim without having to kill him in case he is not bs with his claim

Assumption of a cop could be knowledge-based, but it could also be that wherever he plays elsewhere utilizes cop roles extensively. I've played games on sites where a cop (and a godfather) were basically givens in most games.

why are you confident in GF as scum, ffery

what has he done, and why havent you pushed that case if you believe enough to recommend he be vigged

You guys were lynching me without orcinus around to make his case for Aronis or IK. If we are getting lynched today I hope you'll give us both time to post well formed last thoughts.

doesn't look like you're gonna die today. Why not answer berts question? I would like you to elaborate on your read on me as well selkies/ffery/orc whoever i am talking to

And as I mentioned earlier, this post, asking for my read and ending it with a "whoever I'm talking to" felt discrediting.

[Bert]

Guyett have you caught up with the game yet

[Guyett]

nope haven't even started reading. I've been busy all weekend but I should have time today.

[The Goodfather]

You guys keep criticizing my reads because they are largely based on analyzing playstyle... maybe that is a valid reason to criticize reads for experienced players like you who have played with one another. i am not only new to the site i am new to mafia as a game. less than 2 months playing. I have no meta knowledge of any of you, so I'm not sure what else i should be basing my reads on. Playstyle incorporates many aspects of the game: number of posts, content of posts, voting analysis, reads lists, cases made, etc.

I am also even unfamiliar with roles in this game, so i have had no experience with hydras or neighborhoods in any of my experience. I apologize if that takes some getting used to.

I have been playing 5 games since i joined, and i had to drop out of one of them because i was unable to keep up with the thread and i let that game slip. I'm sorry if my posts lead you all to believe i'm scum, but i have been trying to contribute. I will endeavor to do more. Thats all i can promise right now.