Micro 309: Triplicate Mafia (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

@mod V/LA through friday

I hate blueberries, fuck those guys.

[BROseidon]

Why did you ask this question? Like, I want to know where your head was at. The reason I phrased that colloquially is because I am not attaching any value judgement to my question. I genuinely want to know.

I wish I could vote you :/

[BROseidon]

To be clear, I am proposing we more or less completely leave out cross group discussion until D2 and let each group kind of decide their own fate. This is because this will automatically put the scum at a disadvantage, I think, by keeping them from working together to influence the other groups. Any thoughts on this?

Reasons why this is a bad idea:

1) It denies us associative tells. I signed up for this game because it by-default gives me structure groups to work with, which saves me a lot of time in my scum hunting process. Being able to cross-reference the setup's structure groups with those that I'll eventually end up building naturally gives me a lot more ability to be precise early in my scum hunting. I'm also assuming that there are other people who like to scum hunt by associative tells.

2) I don't know most of the other players in this game, which means that I don't trust the scum hunting abilities of the group as a whole. Given that I'm likely dead by day 2, I'd like to have reads across the game in play so that people have that reference point. Additionally, it means that I have more ability to influence getting scum lynched in the other two groups, which increases my chances of surviving to day 2 to wreck the game.

tl;dr, doing this limits my ability to carry, and I don't trust anyone else in this game to carry because I assume incompetent until proven otherwise.

[BROseidon]

So really I say we treat like a normal day phase, garnering reads and give ourself a list to work from in the teams.

What worries me about this is that it will lead to more accidental votes, I think. I might be a little overcautious, but I'm actually really worried about people voting for players outside their groups and catching heat from the Mod for this.

This is a strange thing to be worried about.

I'm too tired/too writing a paper to discern town/scum/stupid motivation behind this. Backend will probably take care of that for me once I'm less busy.

[BROseidon]

2) I don't know most of the other players in this game, which means that I don't trust the scum hunting abilities of the group as a whole. Given that I'm likely dead by day 2, I'd like to have reads across the game in play so that people have that reference point. Additionally, it means that I have more ability to influence getting scum lynched in the other two groups, which increases my chances of surviving to day 2 to wreck the game.

And now I wish I could vote you.

New thought about the voting: If every group lynches Town, that would be a loss. If all groups have a Town vote on Town at the same time, Scum could quickhammer for a win.

Math too hard.

So is reading the opening post, apparently

[BROseidon]

First, I found your post 42 odd but wasn't sure if it was just your playstyle or alignment indicative. In particular, you saying "interesting" to BC's townread on me and the "not attaching value judgment" phrase. I like that BRO picked up on it and the way he responded felt genuine. Second, I like his point about associative tells and his confidence in his scumhunting abilities. Tonally, he comes across as somewhat frustrated that most people aren't good scumhunters. It feels very natural and not like fake bravado. Third, him pointing out that RedCoyote was worried about a rather strange thing which mirrored what I thought too. Overall, his posts feel natural and I like his tone and content.

I like you.

Are you an alt?

[BROseidon]

I haven't really looked into page 3 and the latter half of 2 yet so I don't know much about Who but I have a 65.89% townread on you, 18.67% scumread on you, and the other 15.44% in constantly in flux.

Uh...

You haven't looked at nearly 1/2 of a 4 page game with limited content?

Also, can I get a list of your completed games?

[BROseidon]

gm, our completed games together are LotR and your Large Normal, right?

Which would mean that I don't have much scope on what sorts of behavior are alignment indicative for you, since I, y'know, have barely seen your game.

You're right that me being a dick isn't alignment indicative; I'm just usually a dick ^_^

[BROseidon]

Well, look it. I can point to a game I've been involved in where townies dropped the ball on obvious rules like the one we have in this game: Polite Mafia, three people modkilled for not following the rules. Oh, by the way, unlike this game where we're given only one mistake before a modkill... in Polite Mafia we were given four mistakes before a modkill. So, yeah, I'll error on the side of player incompetence.

Okay, that contextualizes it a fair bit. I think that people being more wary about votes b/c of the way the voting mechanics are central to how day 1 plays out makes it harder to botch here than messing up capitalization in that game was.

[BROseidon]

I've completed one game, but I'm on mobile so linking is hard. It was the "Dry, Bland, and Tasteless" Mini Normal. By caledfwitch or someone along those lines.

wtf your join date is over a year ago.

Nevermind...

[BROseidon]

I am not sure yet. Do you?

I'd place a vote on this, especially given your alt-status, but I can't.

Other people in Blackfish's group, pls vote blackfish kthx.

[BROseidon]

I am not sure yet. Do you?

I'd place a vote on this, especially given your alt-status, but I can't.

Other people in Blackfish's group, pls vote blackfish kthx.

Why do you find it scummy that I am uncertain about whether there is scum in our group and asked LeMidget about his own reads? Why does my being an alt have anything to do with it?

It's the "I am not sure yet" that made me want to respond with immediate pressure.

[BROseidon]

Ie, the way you phrased it is off, but if you're an alt and I get wind of who you are, I can compare it to what I think is your baseline.

[BROseidon]

The Narnia Micro as well, and I think you were a hydra in something else too, I don't recall.

I like to pretend that game doesn't exist.

[BROseidon]

General Rules

7. Scum have daytalk.

Oh, hey. Look what I found. We should look at people's ISOs for character change.

Why would you expect a character change during a game if scum have day talk for, y'know, the entire time?

[BROseidon]

I have a moderately strong town read on BRO, a very strong townread on BC, and a moderately strong scum read on Formerfish. This is the group I feel most confident about. BRO, BC, thoughts about that?

I know I'm town.

I'm biasing town on RC.

null on FF.

[BROseidon]

Blackfish, for someone who's consistently pointing out where people's language in other posts makes them appear scummy, you didn't catch that that was what I latched onto in post 80.

Why is that.

[BROseidon]

The group without scum is most likely A since I have two townish reads there.

Uh...

1) The reason from your perspective should be that it's b/c you're in that group and you know that you're town (If you're town, that is).

2) Given the relatively *little* attention that group A is getting, I'd expect scum to be in there.

[BROseidon]

Blackfish, for someone who's consistently pointing out where people's language in other posts makes them appear scummy, you didn't catch that that was what I latched onto in post 80.

Why is that.

I don't think my language is "off" or "scummy."

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Compare your language with the above statement and tell me if you notice anything.

[BROseidon]

I implied 1), why should I explicitly state it? Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.

2) is a valid point, gm needs to get in here. Who seems to be steering attention away from A, you think?

It's not that you didn't state #1, but that you ascribed a different reason to it.

Not sure on point #2. It's a question of whether someone is misdirecting conversation off group A, or if someone is misdirecting conversation onto groups B and C. I need to chart some stuff more explicitly to figure this out.

[BROseidon]

BROseidon is town. Yes, I am let down by him. Yes, I expected a lot better when he said that he was going to carry the town. I didn't expect him to suspect me which is anal-shit because I am obvtown. I didn't expect him to attack me based on language. Yes, it is dumb. You know the feeling when you go out with someone for a first time with knowledge that they work for the FBI? Later on over dinner, you learn that they are a janitor? and when you felt let down, you complain "but you said you work for the FBI, waah, waahh." And then he responds that he is the janitor for the FBI. BROseidon is town.

Finals suck :/

[BROseidon]

Actually, being real about it for a second, I'm not seeing the same kind of distancing from Blackfish as from Clinton.

read 231

[BROseidon]

Blackfish, for someone who's consistently pointing out where people's language in other posts makes them appear scummy, you didn't catch that that was what I latched onto in post 80.

Why is that.

I don't think my language is "off" or "scummy."

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Compare your language with the above statement and tell me if you notice anything.

Yeah, what the hell is this Mr. BROseidon? You wanna know the difference?

Clinton didn't use a contraction. "I did not have"

I didn't use a contraction. "I don't think"

I didn't say "I did not think"

So you should actually be townreading me for this.

"I am not sure yet"

"I'm not sure"

One of those is the uncontracted form. The other is the one you used.

[BROseidon]

Not having other wagons to work with is annoying me.

{RC, GM, // Tier}

{/FF/, BC}

{Blackfish, /Who/, Midget}

scum/null/town

VOTE: FF

[BROseidon]

BROseidon is town. Yes, I am let down by him. Yes, I expected a lot better when he said that he was going to carry the town. I didn't expect him to suspect me which is anal-shit because I am obvtown. I didn't expect him to attack me based on language. Yes, it is dumb. You know the feeling when you go out with someone for a first time with knowledge that they work for the FBI? Later on over dinner, you learn that they are a janitor? and when you felt let down, you complain "but you said you work for the FBI, waah, waahh." And then he responds that he is the janitor for the FBI. BROseidon is town.

Finals suck :/

How does finals sucking explain you sucking? I may have changed my mind on you/Fish. Your reads are stupidly demarcated. The only person you are sure of is scum is me? You are null on Formerfish? Oh, give me a fucking seal to eat. You are unbelievable. Points towards you being scum.

lol, it means I had two papers do write last week that make me pull a double all-nighter, plus the 8am exam that I should be studying for write now (Doing an entire term's worth of reading in a single night is fun).

Time constraints are a thing that exist. I have them right now.

[BROseidon]

Actually, being real about it for a second, I'm not seeing the same kind of distancing from Blackfish as from Clinton.

read 231

Yes, I said I was town. Do you find it scummy?

I find the fact that you overemphasized and increased formality in your speech scummy as.

[BROseidon]

Because he's not acting like he does when he's Town. Generally, I'd expect TownBro to be kicking it up one side and down the other.

See the thing about finals.

[BROseidon]

I don't really know what you're going for here.

The fact that he made the same tell?

[BROseidon]

Why are you spamming the thread by breaking one post apart into 3 separate replies?

I think Blackfish is pretending to be a me-alt. I can't think of any other player who spam-posts to this degree. Combine that with the ad homs...

[BROseidon]

BF: I called you a dick and an asshole after you called people 'actual idiots'. That's such a dickish thing to say. The point where players want you out of a game for being an annoying asshole should really tell you something. No these aren't pertinent points, I just am very annoyed by you.

Grow a thicker skin.

THIS.



IS.



MAFIA.

[BROseidon]

I'm willing to cut you some slack for that, but I still don't like the nebulous nature of a lot of your posting.

What do you find "nebulous" about my posting? I think I'm being plenty clear.

[BROseidon]

This is actually a pretty good point and another reason why we probably shouldn't have allowed cross-group scumhunting.

It's fine b/c my group's probably the one without scum, and I'm one of the best players at not spiraling out of control from paranoia.

Also your read on me is shit and you should probably fix that.

[BROseidon]

I'm calling a blackfish/redcoyote scum team. Only because of their names though.

6.5/10

[BROseidon]

Also wait wtf Coyote is reading me as being in a scum team with blackfish?

Lynch it with fire kthx.

[BROseidon]

Why did you ask about BC specifically? Have you read my posts?

And I'd pair it with someone in your group {you gm // tier} over my group, which is currently {/ff/, BC}

[BROseidon]

{scum /null/ town}, in case you didn't read my first post.

[BROseidon]

He's the only one that's left in your group. I'm okay with Formerfish for right now. Yeah, I've read your posts. A whole lot of nothing. Surprise, surprise that you're ready to excuse that. I think you and Blackfish make more sense as partners than anyone else though. You two are like two peas in a pod, each throwing token, throwaway suspicions at the other. I'd also go Blackfish and goodmorning, but that seems significantly less likely.

Yes, me saying "lynch this person in that group" is obvious throwaway suspicion.

Wait...

[BROseidon]

The posts that aren't about theory tend to be pretty vague:
"this is a strange thing to be worried about"
"i'd vote this"
"phrasing is off"

I'll give you that number three is a bit vague. Any particular phrasing things you want me to go over.

The answer's probably "lack of using a contraction," since I don't remember anyone hedging this game, and those are the 2 liar tells that I catch most frequently.

[BROseidon]

Generally: Is there a person in each group that we can generally agree is Town? I feel it might be helpful for us to pare down our lynchpools further but maybe that would be too open to Scum influence?

BpC/Midget/Tier feel like universal town reads right now.

[BROseidon]

Alright, lady and gentlemen, we're running up on the deadline here. I think I want to quote one of the Mod's game rules for emphasis:

2/3 of the way through the day phase is "we're running close to deadline?"

What are you smoking, or if you're scum what are you gunning at...

[BROseidon]

It doesn't really matter what you say now since you have no say in the matter, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you wouldn't be saying the same stuff if you two were both alive come tomorrow. You can hold me to that too.

Gladly.

[BROseidon]

RC and I are two different people with two different playstyles.

I am also not convinced he's Scum.

But you need to lynch one of the two and Tier is obvtown so...

Why the fuck are you being so reserved here?

[BROseidon]

I sympathize, goodmorning. I appreciate you not stooping to Blackfish's browbeating and feeling compelled to vote on the basis of his bullying. That said, I recognize that it's practically in your best interests to cross vote me at some point (unless your prepared to try and sell me on Tierscum, which I haven't picked up on at all).

Such sympathying.

Very town.

Wait...

Question is whether RC is going for the GM lynch, trying to distance from his buddy while accepting his inevitable lynch, or some combo thereof.

[BROseidon]

FF vote me already, one of us is getting lynched out of our group.

I'm fine with going down so long as it's with RC and BF.

[BROseidon]

I sympathize, goodmorning. I appreciate you not stooping to Blackfish's browbeating and feeling compelled to vote on the basis of his bullying. That said, I recognize that it's practically in your best interests to cross vote me at some point (unless your prepared to try and sell me on Tierscum, which I haven't picked up on at all).

Such sympathying.

Very town.

Wait...

Question is whether RC is going for the GM lynch, trying to distance from his buddy while accepting his inevitable lynch, or some combo thereof.

The scumteam isn't me and Coyote, you humongous pile of whale blubber. It is you and Coyote.

Oh lol.

Is the scum team you and GM?

[BROseidon]

you can tell me, I won't tell

[BROseidon]

The BRO, BF, Red agreeance there bothers me, it seems like BF and Red are just following along with BRO's being fine with being lynched. Like sheep or something

I'm always fine with being lynched if I'm a VT and think the rest of the town can close out the game w/o me. Probably why my mislynch rate is as high as it is...

[BROseidon]

I've been traveling, finally have a break.

I'm on vacation this week, traveling a lot, but thankfully this game isn't too long. I want to do a full reread to decide what I want, but I'm pretty much sold on {RC, GM} {Who, BC}, with the currently stronger scum reads on the left.

[BROseidon]

Your join date is 2008?

[BROseidon]

[BROseidon]

Guess who has an hour at the Toledo Airport.

This guy.

Time to reread.

Also the RC unvote makes no sense, especially without a vote onto GM.

[BROseidon]

Wow nobody took positions in this game for a really long time.

I hate all of you.

[BROseidon]

So really I say we treat like a normal day phase, garnering reads and give ourself a list to work from in the teams.

What worries me about this is that it will lead to more accidental votes, I think. I might be a little overcautious, but I'm

actually really

worried about people voting for players outside their groups and catching heat from the Mod for this.

Don't like.

[BROseidon]

Leaving this here:

Why did you ask this question? Like, I want to know where your head was at. The reason I phrased that colloquially is because I am not attaching any value judgement to my question. I genuinely want to know.

I wish I could vote you :/

[BROseidon]

2) I don't know most of the other players in this game, which means that I don't trust the scum hunting abilities of the group as a whole. Given that I'm likely dead by day 2, I'd like to have reads across the game in play so that people have that reference point. Additionally, it means that I have more ability to influence getting scum lynched in the other two groups, which increases my chances of surviving to day 2 to wreck the game.

And now I wish I could vote you.

New thought about the voting: If every group lynches Town, that would be a loss. If all groups have a Town vote on Town at the same time, Scum could quickhammer for a win.

Maybe a townslip?

[BROseidon]

My reads:

RedCoyote - Null
TierShift - town
LeMidget - town
BROseidon - null
BipolarChemist - null
goodmorning - town
Blackfish - scum
Formerfish - null

bad list is bad.

Also liking BC a lot less on reread :/

[BROseidon]

On 279 for when I come back.

[BROseidon]

Sorry for not finishing my reread yet. Been traveling and such.

Gonna try to finish it Sunday/Monday and place my vote by then.

[BROseidon]

Reading more now.

Given that scum have day talk, there's 100% scum b/w Who and RC. If the team were BC and GM, they'd have worked out a time to quickhammer by now (from a not-me POV you can throw me into that group).

[BROseidon]

VOTE: RC

GM if you're scum gg.

[BROseidon]

Hey RC,

how do you feel about gm being conftown?

[BROseidon]

Won't get to this tonight. Will get to it over the next few days.

[BROseidon]

Prod received. Just haven't gotten to this yet.

Although I'm concerned that neither of you have either...

[BROseidon]

I haven't done my read-through yet, but I have reasons to think both of you are scum.

With you, I didn't like you as much as I did day 1 when I was re-reading yesterday. I noticed some behavior that could have come from a scum position, particularly with how you interacted with blackfish (I don't remember the exact details, but it was a lot of the stuff with you criticizing his disposition towards the game). Additionally, you hammered very quickly yesterday, which could have been scum-you seeing that your buddy was going down and trying to cut off discussion as to prevent yourself from slipping up.

With Who, I don't remember a lot of what he did. That could imply a cross-bus intended to let the other carry in LyLo. This would additionally make sense if Who told RC about his recent scum win over town-me in UPick mafia. Additionally, I early-townread you, and I don't give scum early town reads that often (my rate of doing it is well below 1/game at this point).

[BROseidon]

I believe you early town read both of us, at least in 260.

That list has Who in the null category.

[BROseidon]

Gonna try to get to it tonight lol

[BROseidon]

I feel like a dick for putting this off so long.

Gonna do my full reread tomorrow. Will drop a vote when I'm done.

[BROseidon]

Doing my reread now. Will drop a vote at the end of it. Was thinking scum would just vote me to dictate my vote, but it looks like that isn't happening :/

I'm just gonna say that posts 8-10 are fucking hilarious regardless of whether they were foreshadowing or not.

[BROseidon]

Just checking up on one more thing before I place my vote...

[BROseidon]

VOTE: Who

[BROseidon]

Ugh, I suck.

Shouldn't have done that last reread. Was gonna vote BC before I did it :/

[BROseidon]

Also I'm still miffed about that day 1 tier lynch. RC was obvscum :/

[BROseidon]

BRO is a good ally to have. He's one of those people that seems to have a gift at getting people to read him as town.

^So false.

My strength is usually in my reads, not my towniness.