Newbie 1484 (Day Two)

[Hopkirk]

"But you only said something when somebody voted you": My first post of the game? The misrepping begins i see. It's pretty obvious i don't care about jarjar- he was random, you're i one i'm suspicious of for trying to trick newbies with false information.

[Bulbazak]

"But you only said something when somebody voted you": My first post of the game? The misrepping begins i see. It's pretty obvious i don't care about jarjar- he was random, you're i one i'm suspicious of for trying to trick newbies with false information.

I've been playing over a year on another mafia site. Probably around 10 or so games.


I'll

vote Hopkirk

cause if one of the helpers is bound to be scum then one us is guaranteed to voting for mafia.

This is untrue. There is an equal chance any player can be scum and that's not affected by ic/se/newbie.

Bul want to explain why you want to trick the newbies?

If you didn't care about JarJar and his vote, why did you quote it?

[Thesoctorisin]

vote: Bulb

He seems like a prat.

P.s. If my vote doesn't bold, how do I bold? Also, I am a newbie.

[JarJarDrinks]

For reference, I used the exact same speech in this game, and no one even batted an eye.

I think this is proof enough that what was said in Bulbs opening post isn't alignment indicative @ all.


Now this post on the other hand, I'm not sure I like:

Hopkirk, it's a random vote. Why are you freaking out so much over it? Is it because that JarJar accidentally nailed you, and now you're ticked at being caught for not only the wrong reason, but a very bad one?

How would he be "caught" or "nailed"? Like you said in your post, it's the RVS. None of the votes in this stage are likely to stick since there's no actual reason for them.

Do you really think he'd be mad about it as scum? Because even if he thought that I was really voting for that reason, it would obviously be explained (and it was) that roles are determined randomly.

[Bulbazak]

Now this post on the other hand, I'm not sure I like:

Hopkirk, it's a random vote. Why are you freaking out so much over it? Is it because that JarJar accidentally nailed you, and now you're ticked at being caught for not only the wrong reason, but a very bad one?

How would he be "caught" or "nailed"? Like you said in your post, it's the RVS. None of the votes in this stage are likely to stick since there's no actual reason for them.

Do you really think he'd be mad about it as scum? Because even if he thought that I was really voting for that reason, it would obviously be explained (and it was) that roles are determined randomly.

I think he's scum that misjudged the seriousness of your vote and freaked out unnecessarily. His response was not a townie one.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think he's scum that misjudged the seriousness of your vote and freaked out unnecessarily. His response was not a townie one.

Well I'm curious if he actually thinks you're scum or not.

@Hop, do you think bulb is scummy? What about the fact that he made the same post in a previous game?

[Robocopter87]

--:Vote Count:--

• Thesoctorisin [ 0 ]
  
• Docthorr [ 0 ]
  
• LessThanOriginal [ 0 ]
  
• JarJarDrinks [ 0 ]
  
• I Love Fairies [ 0 ]
  
• Number_0ne [ 0 ]
  
• Hopkirk [ 2 ] JarJarDrinks, Bulbazak
  
• catboi [ 0 ]
  
• Bulbazak [ 1 ] Thesoctorisin

Not Voting

: Docthorr, LessThanOriginal, I Love Fairies, Number_0ne, Hopkirk, catboi

Amount To Lynch

: With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch

Deadline

: 11:59PM of March 21st EST.

[Robocopter87]

I've picked up three replacements for our three unconfirmed, hopefully these three will be more responsive.

Welcome Docthorr, I Love Fairies, and Number_0ne who I ironically placed third on my list!

WELCOME THEM

[Number_0ne]

Hello everyone,

I'm Number_0ne, but just call me by whatever you want as long as I can identify that it's me you're referring to.

This is my second game on Mafiascum, although I've been playing games on other websites for about a year now.

Now, my thoughts on the current situation:

Bulbazak seems to be trying to get more information out of Hopkirk by putting pressure. However, Hopkirk's reaction is rather strange.

It seems very defensive for such a light issue. I don't see that really benefiting either faction. I don't think it's common practice on this site to lynch right out of RVS, and I don't see a reason to react to the statement so strongly right out of the bat. If that joke was going to have an effect on the game, then sure. But it was rather harmless until it was brought up. Anyways, I don't find enough reasoning to make this into a bandwagon on Hopkirk.

I don't want everyone to end up tunneling, so I'll direct my vote elsewhere.

Vote: LessThanOriginal

[I Love Fairies]

I haven't actually played a Mafia game before, but I did skim over a Mafia game over the forum that I used to visit fairly often. Personally, I really liked Day 1, and I thought it was the most important Day. Past Day 1, all interaction between players is influenced by what lynch was chosen, and what Night Actions were recorded. Day 1 is different, because there is no information to base anything on, it's harder for mafia to disassociate themselves with each other because they have extra information and no other information to use as a backdrop for fake activity.

In the one game that I read, Day 1, a player acted much like Bulbazak did, and a player acted much like Hopkirk is. The player that acted EXACTLY like Bulbazak turned out to be scum, and the player acting like Hopkirk turned out to be a vigilante.

As Day 1 is often a random vote, any evidence, no matter how trivial is important. That possibly trivial evidence makes the lynch pattern less random. As a result, I feel that Bulbazak is slightly more likely to be scum than any other player thus far. Keep in mind, depending on how many scum there are, this may still be in the neighborhood of just 40% likelihood of being scum over 33%.

However, I will hold off on voting because I didn't actually check to see how many votes he has. I'd rather drag out Day as long as possible so we can get as much interaction with him as possible and so we can allow others to add as much input as they wish.

While this is not a vote, count this as an intent to vote.

[I Love Fairies]

I'm an idiot. I totally skimmed over the vote count.

vote:Bulba

[Bulbazak]

In the one game that I read, Day 1, a player acted much like Bulbazak did, and a player acted much like Hopkirk is. The player that acted EXACTLY like Bulbazak turned out to be scum, and the player acting like Hopkirk turned out to be a vigilante.

Define how I'm acting. Define how Hopkirk is acting. Also, there are no vigs in Newbie games.

[I Love Fairies]

Whether or not there is a vig in the game is irrelevant to my point. My point was that the player in that game that you are emulating turned out to be scum.

I'm not entirely sure how I'd define how you're acting, but I guess the closest thing I can define it as is...trying to hard? What I mean is that the pressure you're applying to Hopkirk is over extravagant and it is obviously serving very little purpose. I see your behavior as more of a way to attempt to establish town cred for pressuring someone.

Hopkirk is mostly just acting in an OMGUS manner. As in, he's entirely defensive and isn't putting as much pressure on you as you are on him. While I don't really consider the vast majority of his pressure to be valid (I really don't think your first posts here indicate you as scum or town). An OMGUS from a new player who has probably even less knowledge of the game than I do makes me think that he's town. New town players from what I've observed get a lot more frustrated than new scum, veteran scum, or veteran town.

[Bulbazak]

My point was that the player in that game that you are emulating turned out to be scum.

I'm not emulating anyone. This is how I play.

I'm not entirely sure how I'd define how you're acting, but I guess the closest thing I can define it as is...trying to hard? What I mean is that the pressure you're applying to Hopkirk is over extravagant and it is obviously serving very little purpose. I see your behavior as more of a way to attempt to establish town cred for pressuring someone.

So...you think I'm scum because I'm aggressive? Playstyle is not alignment indicative. If you think my aggression is bad, you haven't seen anything yet.

Hopkirk is mostly just acting in an OMGUS manner. As in, he's entirely defensive and isn't putting as much pressure on you as you are on him. While I don't really consider the vast majority of his pressure to be valid (I really don't think your first posts here indicate you as scum or town). An OMGUS from a new player who has probably even less knowledge of the game than I do makes me think that he's town. New town players from what I've observed get a lot more frustrated than new scum, veteran scum, or veteran town.

Hopkirk is an SE, which means that he is not a new player and has at least 3 games of experience on the site, potentially more given his July 2013 join date. Does that change your opinion any?

[I Love Fairies]

Emulate was the wrong word to use. Your behavior, however, is reminiscent of the player from the game I observed.

I'm not saying that I think you're scum because of aggression. I'm just thinking that the aggressiveness might be exaggerated and/or badly motivated (as in, scum motivated).

I was under the impression that all of us were new besides yourself. I may need to go back and read. Yes, my opinion is altered with my newfound knowledge that he is not new. :p

Once I have access to my computer again (shouldn't be too long, an hour or so) I'll reread the thread, look at your behavior and Kirk's behavior and more accurately align my analysis with the available information.

[Bulbazak]

I was under the impression that all of us were new besides yourself. I may need to go back and read. Yes, my opinion is altered with my newfound knowledge that he is not new. :p

Hopkirk, Catboi, and myself are all not new players.

[I Love Fairies]

Good to know, thank you.

[Hopkirk]

26- Because I was telling him you were lying to him.
29- I have clearly said I don’t care about jar jar. I care about YOU for giving misinformation to newbies.
30- I am now because he’s ignored a direct question 5ish times. Making the same post in and previous game then linking to it… he can do that as scum, if he thinks it worked last time it takes away the risk for him in rvs this time (he hoped).
33- You REALLY haven’t read my posts have you, since that’s not even what I’m asking him about.
36- Bulb trying to straw man faries by picking an unimportant point and pretending it’s crucial to what she’s saying.
37- That’s not what an omgus is and he isn’t pressuring me at all… Btw I’ve played 20ish games on/off site.

One last time (6th time I think) or there’s a vote going on bulb until he does answer.

Why do you say this “Because one of my helper monkeys is bound to be scum.” Aka lie to new players in the middle of two paragraphs on how to play. A new player reading that would believe it to be true- as it’s in the “how to play” part thus it appears as a deliberate attempt to trick them- explain yourself.
Furthermore why do you keep acting like I’m talking about jarjar. I have been only talking about YOU.

[I Love Fairies]

I've just gone through the thread again and I'm now not so certain about Bulba's alignment. As it stands now, I see 2 townies arguing with each other. However, I will not unvote as nothing either of you has said has led me to believe you are town either, putting everyone at an equal footing of 22% chance of being scum (2scum/9players).

We have a considerable amount of time left in Day (the game I observed had 48 hour Days, 24 hour Nights) so I see no reason to rush votes too much. If I see Bulba gaining any more votes than he currently has, I will probably unvote.

Hopkirk:
33 - This attitude is where I'm getting the OMGUS feel from. I understand the frustration, but I'm also aware that frustration of that manner (especially when no one will listen even if CERTAIN about something) begins to result in less logical arguments and more emotional ones. While perhaps not the correct definition of OMGUS, I don't have another term to say that arguments are closer to emotion than they are logical.
36 - I wouldn't say strawman, perhaps a complete disregard or misunderstanding of my posts, but not straw man. However, I'm mostly just going off semantics here, your point stands. I'm still trying to determine if the possible misunderstanding of my posts is intentional or not (I'm weird, I write in a weird manner, I think in a weird way, and I have serious issues communicating my thoughts, so misunderstandings happen to me on an alarmingly regular basis).
37 - I view the current situation as pressure. Perhaps not a directly logical pressure, but how I see it, Bulba is intentionally ignoring parts of your arguments and leaving out information in his posts to wear you down psychologically.

To be honest, I kind of just...skipped that portion of his post. I didn't think much of it and perceived it as a joke. However, basing an argument or trying to use my viewpoint as evidence is folly because I tend to look at things in a different way than others (for good or worse, usually both).


On a side note: I enjoy this game already.

[I Love Fairies]

Well, it is 3:00am and it does not seem as though anything more of note will happen tonight, so I'm off to bed. Unfortunately, as a college student with a bizarre schedule, I really don't know if I will have time to post tomorrow. It's possible that I'll have all of tomorrow to post. My point is that you should probably not read into any random disappearances from me.

[Docthorr]

Aloha,
[History] I don't have much experience. I have watched some games on twitch which made me look for forum mafia. I found this site and tried it. Something came up during my first game, so I had to be replaced out. So technically this is my first game. And adding on the ic/se scum. Both the IC and a SE were scum in that game.[/history]
I'm from the Netherlands living with CET. This probably means I'm gonna miss some conversations.

VOTE: number_0ne
Trying to trick us by saying he is number one but using a 0.

(I'm on my phone and just woke up. I will do a reread once I get up and maybe change my vote, but for now...I posted something. Hooray for me.)

[JarJarDrinks]

One last time (6th time I think) or there’s a vote going on bulb until he does answer.

Why do you say this “Because one of my helper monkeys is bound to be scum.” Aka lie to new players in the middle of two paragraphs on how to play. A new player reading that would believe it to be true- as it’s in the “how to play” part thus it appears as a deliberate attempt to trick them- explain yourself.

Ok, this line of questioning is pretty terrible. He linked to a previous game where he did the same thing. Therefore if you are trying to accuse him of purposefully misleading noobs because he's scum and wants to make them vote for the SE guys, your argument falls flat.


And I dont understand saying "there’s a vote going on bulb until he does answer". He did answer in post 14. He said he didnt mislead. What more do you want?

See it's a loaded question. You're basically asking: Why did you purposefully lie?

Explain to me what type of answer he could possible give to that question that would make him anything but scum. The fact that you're not voting him doesn't make sense. You're not asking him if he did purposefully mislead. You're asking him why he did it. And if you've already decided that he did, then there's no answer that should make you think he isn't scum.

[Hopkirk]

One last time (6th time I think) or there’s a vote going on bulb until he does answer.

Why do you say this “Because one of my helper monkeys is bound to be scum.” Aka lie to new players in the middle of two paragraphs on how to play. A new player reading that would believe it to be true- as it’s in the “how to play” part thus it appears as a deliberate attempt to trick them- explain yourself.

Ok, this line of questioning is pretty terrible. He linked to a previous game where he did the same thing. Therefore if you are trying to accuse him of purposefully misleading noobs because he's scum and wants to make them vote for the SE guys, your argument falls flat.


And I dont understand saying "there’s a vote going on bulb until he does answer". He did answer in post 14. He said he didnt mislead. What more do you want?

See it's a loaded question. You're basically asking: Why did you purposefully lie?

Explain to me what type of answer he could possible give to that question that would make him anything but scum. The fact that you're not voting him doesn't make sense. You're not asking him if he did purposefully mislead. You're asking him why he did it. And if you've already decided that he did, then there's no answer that should make you think he isn't scum.

1.) IT was successful for him last time. He’s arguing doing it again makes him the same allignemnt as last time. I say it means nothing as if he’s scum he would be saying it so he could self-meta later/now.
2.) “He said he didn’t mislead”… he did though; see the point I’m trying to make?
3.) I’m asking why he chose to say it in the middle of his intro post in a position that makes it appear a fact. Then he lies about it despite proof being there…

It could just be a bad IC tell though rather than a scumtell but it seems scummy to me.

Faries seems too bogged down in %s and stats rather than what’s actually going on, that’s feeling off too.

[Bulbazak]

26- Because I was telling him you were lying to him.

I was not lying to him. I am strictly forbidden as an IC to lie about game theory. So you're essentially saying that I purposefully broke the rules just to win, although all evidence points to the contrary.

29- I have clearly said I don’t care about jar jar. I care about YOU for giving misinformation to newbies.

Except you only cared when JarJar copied my joke reasoning in his random vote.

Making the same post in and previous game then linking to it… he can do that as scum, if he thinks it worked last time it takes away the risk for him in rvs this time (he hoped).

I copied the same post, because I'm lazy and didn't feel like writing a new one. You're right that the post doesn't make me town, but it doesn't make me scum. In actuality, it's a null action.

36- Bulb trying to straw man faries by picking an unimportant point and pretending it’s crucial to what she’s saying.

Except that wasn't the most important part of MY post either. I was just informing her that there were no vigs in Newbie games, me being the IC and all.

Why do you say this “Because one of my helper monkeys is bound to be scum.” Aka lie to new players in the middle of two paragraphs on how to play. A new player reading that would believe it to be true- as it’s in the “how to play” part thus it appears as a deliberate attempt to trick them- explain yourself.

I just got done talking about RVS, then I made a break from that paragraph for my actual RVS vote to show them how it's done. If you'd notice, the vote and reasoning (which is non-serious) are grouped together away from everything else. I don't think anybody in their right mind would have thought that was serious, and if they did, all they'd have to do is ask, and I would have clarified it.

P-edit: I see you posturing Hopkirk. Stop being so obv. scum.

[I Love Fairies]

Mmmm, I'm not really bogged down on the numerical side of this. My use of percents, probability, and statistics allows me to less than randomly vote on people if I'm uncertain. I feel math is a very integral part of this game and while it's not true statistics, how people act change what % trust I put them at. Beyond that, I understand the situation, but I'm not very good at writing out my thoughts, and numbers let me communicate my general idea more than me trying to blunder about with explanations.

Bulba, what do you mean by "posturing"?