Micro 303: Tarot uPick - Game Over!

[orcinus_theoriginal]

ald i have at null but i want to put him somewhere

points of interest: no vote, scumread on me that's based on a misrep and no vote to follow

vla though so that's kinda dull

[Perpetual Nonsense]

yeah null

i guess ill go look at tier-dra, tip and the natirasha hydra

deadline's in 4 days i see

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i think TIP is scum but give me another day and i can be sure

have you relooked at cabd yet?

[Medea the Alien]

Well when you two are done with playtime, I'll hang out... tomorrow. It's late and sleep n shit. Penguin'll be up though.

[Perpetual Nonsense]

im looking at his push on u yeah

[Nazarene]

We are still here. May do a quick re-read.

This Head of the Hydra's top picks for lynches today are TIP and PN. I am actually leaning TIP at the moment because I feel like if we do not rid ourselves of his cancerous presence he will infect the game beyond salvation.

-A

[Perpetual Nonsense]

before it slips my mind (i'll look at kagami in the meantime)

can we also just agree that naz should claim their hated mechanic

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1.10

Medea the Alien - 2 (Garruk Relentless, orcinus_theoriginal)
kagami - 2 (TheIrishPope , Perpetual Nonsense)
Perpetual Nonsense - 2 (Nazarene, GuyInFreezer)
orcinus_theoriginal - 2 (Medea the Alien, aldusskel)
TheIrishPope - 2 (kagami, Medea the Alien)
orcinus_theoriginal - 1 (alduskkel)

Deadline March 14, 11:59 PM US Eastern Time (GMT-4)

Not voting: Nobody!

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Nightfall is in (expired on 2014-03-14 20:59:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Perpetual Nonsense]

PN went from a vote they weren't interested in supporting (GIF) to Kagami for the lolz, to mindless sheeping a fake day cop. Likely scum.

Nazarene-wise, the bravado of 'of course we were going to push Medea' is absurd, but isn't likely from scum. Seeing as our town flip would make them look pretty bad for saying this at all. Much easier as scum just to pretend you believed the gambit and hop on quietly. Likely town.

Orcinus needs to catch up, yet has no problem putting down an L-1 vote on a clear gambit.

He can stay on our scum list even in the face of TIP's utter uselessness.

low effort play can appear scummy re: the read on PN, so I can see that I guess.

On the other hand -> Bolded is a weak point without flips. Saying this is worse than Nazarene because "Nazarene's bravado is too absurd for scum" is a complete non-reason. Well, hard to believe.

it really looks like this reads list was made just to draw attention away from all the attention brought onto them by Garruk's fakeclaim gambit.

there is no tip-toeing around it. the bottom line is it was NOT a clear gambit. that's why they're called gambits. I know because I believed Nat was telling the truth. So this position they're taking doesn't make that much sense.

[Perpetual Nonsense]

lol TIP hasn't done anything in this game...........no idea about him tbh. blank, so a toss-up. i won't cry if he's lynched, but whatevs.

Bert usually shows at least a grain of town motivation.

Die.

it took you that many days to realize that i wasnt posting?

they don't seem cohesive, which means nothing really.

I would only be willing to lynch Kag today if we lynch TIP tomorrow if Kag flips town. Discuss.

-A

how about an urgency and desire in finding the right person today to lynch?? *shrug*

Dammit we were just wanting to push for medea.

Seems like we just got mad skills.

If this is fake imma come over to murica and kick nati in the balls.

-Tier

ok i take back what i said about this post. this is probably town, in a throwaway comment kinda way. so town. and my position actually comes from meta and Tier's spotless clean play in Mistakes uPick past game (sorry im using meta).

[Medea the Alien]

For the fun between Garruk and Medea, for now happy to move Medea to town, even though I wasn't quite satisfied with the back-and-forth.

What weren't you satisfied with? As I think I've made clear, I'd like to get maximum value out of this, and it's already helped persuade me of town-Nazarene and likely town-Garruk. Scum reads have only solidified, but I'll take the definitive impact on town reads.

I'm not sure I've ever played with Bert outside of marathon/skype Mafia, but doesn't he usually town it up when he's town?

In asking this, I assume you think he hasn't towned it up. Is your read on them currently the absence of a town read or an actual scum read? With reasons, please.

i really didn't like cabd's push on me

he's normally much lazier in the early game and doesn't do shit

he got off his ass to misread me??

and now that read dissipated?

weird man

Alert: we still think you're scum. We'd just rather vote for TIP who also seems reasonably likely to flip scum and apparently isn't going to do anything useful. You LOLhopped a clear reaction test with little thought beyond dealing with it as inconspicuously as possible, but you dealt with it. That TIP strolled in afterwards and didn't even acknowledge it happened is inexcusable. Hence the vote. Although I suspect Cabd would be happy to wrest our vote back to you.

gaiden thinks that kagami is scum for refusing to vote medea, that is his scumread

When Kagami posted we were at L-1. The way the above reads to me is more like Gaiden is insistent that Kagami is scum and is pointing out anything he can think of that might stick to explain the read. Kagami questioning the claim at all seems town to me. Unless Kagami is scum with Garruk, scum should have wanted the fake wagon on us to go through, especially when they can blame someone else for it the next day. Only way that doesn't work is with a Kagami-Garruk scum team who decided to sacrifice one of their own to see us dead. Which, I realize Cabd is scary, but the idea of scum queuing up for a 1:1 trade in a game of this size is absurd. Even if it made the other one come out smelling like roses, it's a very tunnely theory and I'd have expected Kagami to react more definitively in that case.

Garruk's dodging the question of what they got out of it/wanted to get out of it and claiming to still want us dead with zero explanation is admittedly bad. But the Kagami wagon is still worse, and Garruk only works with Kagami-scum, so I'll just ask again: Garruk, please discuss your own gambit. With something other than lyncher invocations, please and thank you.

--PA

P-edit: PN, you may not have known it was a clear gambit, but we knew it was and scum knew it was barring a set-up with a third party, unlikely in a Micro. As such I'm comfortable analyzing the reactions in terms of how town and scum were likely to behave. More in my next post, as I think this deserves more than a P-edit.

[Perpetual Nonsense]

Garruk only works with Kagami-scum, so I'll just ask again:

so you see the timing of the fakeclaim (when Kagami was at lynch -1) as more than purely coincidental?

[Medea the Alien]

PN went from a vote they weren't interested in supporting (GIF) to Kagami for the lolz, to mindless sheeping a fake day cop. Likely scum.

Nazarene-wise, the bravado of 'of course we were going to push Medea' is absurd, but isn't likely from scum. Seeing as our town flip would make them look pretty bad for saying this at all. Much easier as scum just to pretend you believed the gambit and hop on quietly. Likely town.

Orcinus needs to catch up, yet has no problem putting down an L-1 vote on a clear gambit.

He can stay on our scum list even in the face of TIP's utter uselessness.

low effort play can appear scummy re: the read on PN, so I can see that I guess.

On the other hand -> Bolded is a weak point without flips. Saying this is worse than Nazarene because "Nazarene's bravado is too absurd for scum" is a complete non-reason. Well, hard to believe.

it really looks like this reads list was made just to draw attention away from all the attention brought onto them by Garruk's fakeclaim gambit.

there is no tip-toeing around it. the bottom line is it was NOT a clear gambit. that's why they're called gambits. I know because I believed Nat was telling the truth. So this position they're taking doesn't make that much sense.

To elaborate: your approach to our wagon was scummy. You didn't show any interest in thinking beyond having an apparent result fall into your lap. You wanted other people to hop on to obscure your own easy jump, and you didn't consider anything about the claim before or after doing so. It's scum opting not to look a gift horse in the mouth as far as I can tell.

So according to you, what happens if Kagami had hammered like you wanted and our town flip is out there? Who's going to get the most attention after Garruk? The one who avoided standing out or the one who cheerleaded the lynch? Probably the one who claimed to have a scum read on us all along and who would have been directly proven wrong? Sounds like a pretty good piece of bait for a follow-up lynch if I'm right about Garruk being town.

And if you think my discussing the claim and the wagon and continuing to pester Garruk to talk about it is trying to draw attention away from it, I just...don't even know what game you're reading.

As far as it being a gambit, I think you should consider that almost half the player list knew it was a gambit. Us, Garruk, and the scum, assuming Garruk is indeed town. Again, third party considerations screw with this, but for a Micro odds of a third party being in play are low. Do you truly believe that it was only town reacting there? If not, scum reacted as well, and trying to figure out how to separate out that group is quite useful.

Garruk only works with Kagami-scum, so I'll just ask again:

so you see the timing of the fakeclaim (when Kagami was at lynch -1) as more than purely coincidental?

Not necessarily. If Garruk is scum, the only reason they have to disrupt that L-1 wagon is to save a buddy. Letting the wagon play out with Garruk-scum and Kagami-town likely nets scum information if Kagami is forced to claim upon hammer intent. Which, on this player list, seems quite feasible. So either scum gets Kagami hammered or they learn her role. Both good things in a Garruk-scum/Kagami-town scenario. Therefore the only benefit to Garruk-scum is if Kagami is a partner.

On the other hand, if Garruk-town has a strong townread on Kagami, that would be a good reason to time the fakeclaim for that point. Shake up a crappy wagon. But they were voting Kagami before moving to us, so I don't think that's a good explanation.

Bottom line, I think they decided to do something, and given how much they were winging it such that they flubbed their own plan I think it's more likely they didn't think about the lay of the land as a whole in their timing.

--PA

[Perpetual Nonsense]

people daycop people in micro...

we as scum in 260 X-Men wihch you were in, we dayrolecopped Venny. it's possible

let's say a cop gets a guilty and says he is being serious. it's custom to just follow them. it's lazy, but how is it necessarily scummy? it's confirmed scum unless that person is lying. the only time ive seen nat gambit is as faux masons with notscience in a past game Mini 1526. This one didn't even make sense for nat-scum. Like in a "are you insane" way in which you guys got put at lynch -1 and he didn't do anythign to stop that from happening.

i didnt expect that coming from nat, and it actually makes sense for him to cop you if he's town daycop cos you guys can be a threat if scum.

we cheerleaded the lynch, we hopped on, of course we'll get attention - attention ONLY if a town flip comes out. Even if a scum flip comes out, we can be accused of bussing for a guilty verdict if Garruk doesn't come clean. i dont get what point you are trying to make

[Perpetual Nonsense]

i will concede that the jump on kagami cos someone called them playing to their scum meta was really lazy and scummy, however.

[Medea the Alien]

There's a difference between how you hopped on with a minimum of fuss and Nazarene jumping on while crowing about how they knew we were oh-so-scummy. You have the easy 'follow the cop' excuse without commitment, Nazarene commits to believing the result for their own reasons. Harder to back out of one than the other.

I agree that it (mostly) didn't make sense for Nati-scum. Doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for Nati-town. And yeah, they carried it on really close to the point of no return, but they really only got one shot at this. May as well maximize it.

Reacting to a claimed daycop guilty...I'd be looking for a trajectory that indicated the claimed daycop would use their investigation as claimed. I might voice my support of the lynch while seeing where people moved in the aftermath of the claim, since I know I'm town after all; seeing who jumped would be more informative on account of the 'gimmie' nature of the wagon. I might demand a full claim from the daycop given the low chances of a multiple shot daycop in a Micro. I might try to find and interrogate other people who had reads on the investigated slot. There's a lot to be done beyond 'hop on wagon' and I saw none of that from you.

--PA

[Perpetual Nonsense]

I might try to find and interrogate other people who had reads on the investigated slot. There's a lot to be done beyond 'hop on wagon' and I saw none of that from you.

have you played with Gaiden before? because I have a hard time believing you'd expect all of that from him, if you have actually played with him before...

[Perpetual Nonsense]

also i have a hard time you'd expect that from me, but i didn't catch up until this night, so....

[Medea the Alien]

I modded a game Gaiden was in. IIRC he was Goo, which, um, doesn't give me much of a sense of how he'd play in a more normal game. I don't expect all of that from both of you, but let's face it: this is a Micro game, most likely two scum. You think you have one scum handed to you gift-wrapped. You aren't going to do anything to knock out the last scum? Instead you try to hurry up the wagon. Let's say Nati hadn't slipped up/retracted it. Do you really think there was a chance we wouldn't have been lynched? If not, why the giant hurry to pressure Kagami into hammering?

--PA

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Alert: we still think you're scum. We'd just rather vote for TIP who also seems reasonably likely to flip scum and apparently isn't going to do anything useful. You LOLhopped a clear reaction test with little thought beyond dealing with it as inconspicuously as possible, but you dealt with it. That TIP strolled in afterwards and didn't even acknowledge it happened is inexcusable. Hence the vote. Although I suspect Cabd would be happy to wrest our vote back to you.

why do you think i am scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

like if you're actually scumreading me for willing to l-1 on a gambit, you are so off your game

[Perpetual Nonsense]

gaiden posts one-liners and generally lurks a lot, and barely posts. he has a hammer fetish. he doesn't usually give reasoning. Cabd should know this, and i'm appalled he hasn't mentioned this to you in your discussions??

i wasnt there to pressure kagami into hammering, and i havent addressed kagami in this game directly at all. so ill let gaiden answer that

[Perpetual Nonsense]

VOTE: Medea the Alien

i have a hard time believing you have no idea how Gaiden normally plays.

[Garruk Relentless]

Medea.

I think you're town.

But I still need you lynched.

Because role. I have a passive ability that only activates upon your death. I'm not claiming what my role is though. Taking it to the goddamn grave there.

I had to choose a player to tether to pre-game, I chose you.

[Garruk Relentless]

If Bert's leading the Collective, it's scum.
If Gaiden is, it's town.

orcinus is in limbo.

Aegor's probtown.
Kagami is scum--I didn't really want to disband that wagon, actually, but c'est la vie.

TIP's a designated mislynch.