PokeOcalypse - {GAME COMPLETE}

[orcinus_theoriginal]

and did you ask mist to challenge you in ubers?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

and did you ask mist to challenge you in ubers?

actually fuck this it doesn't even matter

you should be playing by OU rules

the fact that you circumvented it by whatever method and have the audacity to claim the win regardless is pitiful

[kdowns]

Here's a link to the banlist I'll be going by! http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/of ... t.3491371/ Blaziken is listed as banned, but he'll obviously be available for use without Speed Boost.

So as of now, all Mega Formes are allowed excluding Blaziken, Gengar, and Kangaskhan, but only one Mega on a team, of course.

Orc, I went back to see if CC had made any post about me being able to use Blaziken or not and I found this. So you can calmly just Shut the Fuck up. If you don't like it than quit. You're the only cause this huge scene. I honestly did not know and I did attempt to clarify with CC before the battle started. But we had started by the time we got a response from him.

[KingdomAces]

First turn she tried to toxic a Forretress. After that she just sat around doing nothing as Forretress set up craptons of hazards. That was before Blaziken even hit the field, so you can't say that fighting a banned Pokemon had anything to do with it.

And it's not circumventing the rules if we specifically say that Blaziken is allowed. According to OU standards, Blaziken is uber, not Speed Boost. We knew that the entire time, yet we still allowed it. Playing it in ubers was the only way this was possible. This was established before signups took place, so if there were any arguments against it they should have been taken care of then.

[kdowns]

and did you ask mist to challenge you in ubers?

[3/19/2014 11:34:30 PM] Mist7676: format ubers?
[3/19/2014 11:34:48 PM] Mist7676: or is that just so I can pick my team>
[3/19/2014 11:35:17 PM] kdowns: ...
[3/19/2014 11:35:22 PM] kdowns: I need to talk to CC real fast
[3/19/2014 11:35:28 PM] Mist7676: kk
[3/19/2014 11:37:41 PM] kdowns: The THing is. For one of my pokemon it has to be Uber for me to even use the Pokemon. That is the only problem

Mist and I discussed it because I was confused on why it wouldn't let me battle with Blaziken in OU.
But during the battle I got this.

[3/19/2014 11:36:16 PM] kdowns: CC
[3/19/2014 11:36:23 PM] kdowns: Are we supposed to do our battles in Uber?
[3/19/2014 11:36:32 PM] kdowns: Because I wouldn't be able to use Blaziken then
[3/19/2014 11:39:28 PM] Will Seamon: Use uber, I'm allowing people to use Blaziken without Speed Boost
[3/19/2014 11:39:58 PM] kdowns: Derp.
[3/19/2014 11:40:10 PM] kdowns: I uh.
[3/19/2014 11:40:15 PM] kdowns: Didn't know that part
[3/19/2014 11:40:41 PM] Will Seamon: It's all good <3
[3/19/2014 11:41:10 PM] Will Seamon: It's mainly just that Blaziken is banned mainly for Speed Boost, but then you can't use it with the Blaze ability in OU

[kdowns]

Before you say anything Orc, the battle had started before CC had responded.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i heavily doubt cuddly knew that blaziken in normal form was banned at the start of the game, because that post heavily insinuates that cuddly thought blaziken was only banned with speed boost

[Lord Mhork]

Orc you've lost. CC approved it. Why are you still fighting?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Will Seamon: It's mainly just that Blaziken is banned mainly for Speed Boost

and this supports my hypothesis exactly

blaziken is not banned mainly for speed boost. if it was, then there'd just be a complex ban like in gen 5

[Lord Mhork]

CC said kdowns could use blaziken. He said no speed boost. Kdowns oopsed. CC was ok with it.

I'm confused where your argument lies here.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

According to OU standards, Blaziken is uber, not Speed Boost. We knew that the entire time, yet we still allowed it.

have a shred of honesty. nobody knew that blaziken with blaze was uber

I'm fairly sure that Speed Boost isn't allowed on Torchic, even though other hidden abilites are available. I think I remember CC saying that in the Mish Mash Game List a while ago.

PEdit: Okay, I had to leave for an hour while writing this post, and in that time cxinlee apparently edited his post. This still pertains to Black Pawn though, so posting it anyway.

Oh... okay.
mmm... Blaziken is still decent with Blaze, but Torchic isn't... and Totodile is good overall...
Know what? I'm going with

Totodile

instead.

Yep, Speed Boost is banned for Torchic's evolution line, but that's the only exception.

[KingdomAces]

Anyway orc, weren't you the one gunning for Mist before the battle happened in the first place? kdowns cares more about the game than Mist did. If Mist was taking this hard, then I might have other opinions on this. Seriously though, would everyone who has already posted on the topic please stop. The only people who could possibly say something that hasn't already been said at this point are Mist and CC, arguing without them being on is going to get us nowhere.

And yes, Blaziken is banned solely for Speed Boost. Smogon specifically avoids complex bans unless absolutely necessary. Anyway, if you had a problem with this, then you should have brought it up during signups when the issue was first discussed.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i know. CC hasn't been online and i want to make my strong view on this matter perfectly clear because he has word of god and the subject is getting dropped after he gives a final decision

whether or not you want mist eliminated is entirely irrelevant. this game revolves around pokemon battles. if someone is allowed to abuse an unfair advantage in that pokemon battle then the entire game is moot

on the blaziken ban: again, if speed boost was the only reason that blaziken would be banned,

then there would be a complex ban just as we saw in generation 5

[KingdomAces]

Where in that link does it say anything about Blaziken not being banned for speed boost?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'm trying to make sense of this ban and i'll edit this post with it later

my edit in previous post still stands

edit: also, kdowns DIDN'T use blaze blaziken in his battle, did he? so this argument is rendered trivial anyways, as sb blaziken is undoubtedly and unarguably uber

[orcinus_theoriginal]

[3/19/2014 11:36:16 PM] kdowns: CC
[3/19/2014 11:36:23 PM] kdowns: Are we supposed to do our battles in Uber?
[3/19/2014 11:36:32 PM] kdowns: Because I wouldn't be able to use Blaziken then
[3/19/2014 11:39:28 PM] Will Seamon: Use uber, I'm allowing people to use Blaziken without Speed Boost
[3/19/2014 11:39:58 PM] kdowns: Derp.
[3/19/2014 11:40:10 PM] kdowns: I uh.
[3/19/2014 11:40:15 PM] kdowns: Didn't know that part
[3/19/2014 11:40:41 PM] Will Seamon: It's all good <3
[3/19/2014 11:41:10 PM] Will Seamon: It's mainly just that Blaziken is banned mainly for Speed Boost, but then you can't use it with the Blaze ability in OU

and everyone is fucking missing the point right now

REREAD THIS CONVERSATION

CC ALLOWED BLAZIKEN WITHOUT SPEED BOOST

KDOWNS USED SPEED BOOST BLAZE

so whatever mhork or kdowns spins about CC letting kdowns using blaziken is just flat out wrong

like holy shit guysss

Edit: let me just use this post to consolidate everything i've said on this subject

1) Speed boost blaziken is uber. kdowns knew this, evidenced by cuddly telling him so and the billion mentions of speed boost blaziken being banned. Kdowns used speed boost blaziken versus mist, so he has knowingly violated the rules.

whether or not blaze blaziken is uber or not is inconsequential in this specific circumstance. if kdowns is allowed to stay in the game, then that's a discussion for another day

2) The argument that "it wouldn't have changed the game" is bullshit. Mist could have had a number of ways to deal with non-speed boost blaziken. Scarf malamar was one. I don't need a second, because the glaring fact stands that

at the entrance of speed boost blaziken, the match was not decided, and so you /cannot/ say that speed boost blaziken did not change the outcome of the match

.
3) It's also bullshit because a lot of what kingdomaces and kdowns said assumes that mist will make the same decisions playing against a speed boost blaziken and against another pokemon. Why do I even have to say how wrong this is?
4) Mist was deprived of a fair battle (in a game that revolves around pokemon battle) and it completely compromises the integrity of the game letting one person break the rules, eliminate another, and get away with it. I would be absolutely fine with this (or at least, finer than I am now) if this was a judgement made to allow a "mistake" if it were in isolation. It is not.

Mist got /eliminated/ because kdowns cheated. If people actually think this is OK, you need to go back to the door and find where you lost your sense of fair play.

5) kdowns shouldn't be allowed to rematch mist because it sets up a precedent where people can knowingly (because kdowns absolutely knowingly broke the rules, he KNEW that speed boost blaziken was banned) fuck up their team to be outside OU guidelines, whereby scouting the opponent's team. If you are into competitive pokemon, the winner of Smogon Tour 9 won the finals when his opponent loaded the wrong team because of an alleged bug (so it wasn't even intentional like this one). This. Same. Argument. Was. Made. To. Disallow. Rematches.

EDIT:

from the tournament director that year
--
As disappointing as it is for something like that to happen (DestinyUnknown loaded a NU team instead of an OU team), forcing DestinyUnknown and gr8astard to start over would set a terrible precedent (DestinyUnknown got to see gr8astard's team).

Congratulations gr8astard!

[Candillan]

i'd just like to take this moment to note that Scope Lens Focus Energy Draco Meteor Kingdra is hilariously fun to use.

[Lord Mhork]

Dude. Kdowns oopsed. CC said it was fine

And stop fucking sending me PMs. I don't need your shit. Do it again and I'll see you DQed for harassment.

[KingdomAces]

I agree with orc in that CC did not specifically say using speed boost Blaziken was fine. There was no way that CC could know that's what was happening based on that conversation.

The main thing I disagree with here is that the argument that the battle wasn't over by the time Speed Boost activated. And you can't use Scarf Malamar as evidence, because Malamar was very clearly not scarfed, since it used toxic and protect. I agree that rematches should not be allowed, but if both Mist and kdowns posted their sets, I see no reason why two unconnected parties could try to figure out if the battle was already over by that point using the sets that they actually had in the battle.

The other main question here is

does Mist actually want kdowns to be DQ'ed?

If that answer is no, then this entire argument is pointless anyway.

Also:

i'd just like to take this moment to note that Scope Lens Focus Energy Draco Meteor Kingdra is hilariously fun to use.

QFT.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

kdowns started cheating on turn 5.

jinx could've psychic'd on turn 6

even if malamar wasn't scarfed, it again using some sets can outspeed blaziken naturally (depending on what set blaziken was). It could then do the required amount of damage on turn 9 or on turn 11


and since i bothered posting to answer KA's question

kdowns loses, speed boost blaze

I talked about it with CC. Because I didn't know.

going back to this, this is just a blatant lie since we saw the skype convo. I have no idea why any of you are defending kdowns.

[Lord Mhork]

Because he's right. He's not lying. You're trying to get him DQed for bullshit reasons, likely because you fear you'll lose to him.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

[3/19/2014 11:39:28 PM] Will Seamon: Use uber, I'm allowing people to use Blaziken without Speed Boost
[3/19/2014 11:39:58 PM] kdowns: Derp.
[3/19/2014 11:40:10 PM] kdowns: I uh.
[3/19/2014 11:40:15 PM] kdowns: Didn't know that part
[3/19/2014 11:40:41 PM] Will Seamon: It's all good <3
[3/19/2014 11:41:10 PM] Will Seamon: It's mainly just that Blaziken is banned mainly for Speed Boost, but then you can't use it with the Blaze ability in OU

kdowns

didn't

know

?

?

?

is that so?

look i honestly don't care about kdowns. i almost hope that i'll lose to someone in this game because as it stands i strongly doubt that i will.

it bugs me like fuck that you people are standing up for a lying cheater who just ruined the game for someone else

[Lord Mhork]

It doesn't look like he's lying. It looks like a simple mistake. He didn't need to 'cheat' to beat mist. It makes no sense to think he orchestrated an elaborate setup to take advantage of her. You're just making a big deal out of literally nothing.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

And I don't need to cheat to beat any of you so I'm justified using Kyogre every match right

[Xalxe]

CC can unlock the thread when he comes back. When I start getting reports I think everyone needs to calm down.