NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Thor665]

Oooh, and Thor's meta case is *backwards relevant* with all his claims about ABR's scum and town meta.
Also, at the point Thor replaced in and defended ABR people were TRYING TO TELL THOR HOW ANTI-TOWN ABR WAS and during that period Thor had a stron ABR town defense...then, as Thor experience ABR himself he realized people were dumb and ABR wasn't being anti-town at all, and then Thor started to call him scum.

It's such a non-logical and scummy setup with no seeming sense to it at all, it must be a lulz bus!

[Aegor]

V/LA until the end of the weekend

[Rainbowdash]

Also, Thor was voting ABR at the end of Day 2, almost as though he was figuring out ABR was scum.

You were voting Aegor at the end of D2. The day you jokey voted ABR to start then soft defended him the rest of the day. Not the day you called him scum for meta, when the wagon stalled went elsewhere and avoided rebooting the wagon until the last moment.

Again. How come at the start of D3 you call him scum on meta but were not at the end of D2.

What changed there? You keep saying what the meta was but you continue to dodge the question of why you didn't attack him for it until after the D2 lynch. You are avoiding answering something really important. Or you are claiming you just made up the meta attack? I cant really follow all of your post. It seems like a scattershot of borderline claiming trust tells, self meta and frustration with ABR.

[Bulbazak]

This, combined with the other shit Bulba has been saying this game, I'm going to

reward his bad play

by assuming that he isn't capable of any better play until Chevre hangs.

I feel as if I'm being set up, but I'm not sure how.

Bulbazak is a tricky one for me, some of his stuff I really like, but I do think his reads have been strangely unwavering, his top two scumreads still seem to be emogirl and garmr [discode], which hasn't changed since page 6 or something. That kind of stickiness can be a pretty strong scumtell.

I haven't seen anything that makes me doubt my scumread on them.

@Bulba - battle me with words, I want your thoughts on the gamestate.

There are too many people I want to kill, and not all of them are scum.

Does anyone have thoughts on High Shroomish?

He's town based on the ABR flip.

That's not the only thing. There is a reason why Chevre was placed at L-1 on Day 1 which was lost. Everything about Chevre is scum.

So, are you scum as well, since you were placed at L-1 on d1 too?

If I think someone is impossible to read, then I usually just try to make them dead to spare me the headache.

This actually explains why you've gone on a Bulba voting spree as of late.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 4.8

Aegor (3) - emeraldemon, Bulbazak, kabooooom
kabooooom (3) - Rainbowdash, Thesp, Aegor
Bulbazak (2) - inHimshallibe, Sotty7
Chevre (1) - emogirl123
Rainbowdash (1) - Thor665
Thor665 (1) - HighShroomish

Not voting (1) - Chevre

With twelve players alive, it takes seven votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Four is Thursday, 27th March 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-03-27 20:00:00)).

Note:

Aegor is V/LA until the end of the weekend.
Looking for a replacement for Chevre, unless he posts before I can find one.

[Thor665]

You were voting Aegor at the end of D2. The day you jokey voted ABR to start then soft defended him the rest of the day. Not the day you called him scum for meta, when the wagon stalled went elsewhere and avoided rebooting the wagon until the last moment.

Only according to the Mod's incorrect vote count.
Here's my actual last post of that Day;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5701664
The very next page has a vote count reflecting me as voting Aegor, I will agree - but if you want to actually read what I'm saying and doing you should iso me, not the Mod.

Again. How come at the start of D3 you call him scum on meta but were not at the end of D2.

Because you're isoing the Mod and not me.

What changed there? You keep saying what the meta was but you continue to dodge the question of why you didn't attack him for it until after the D2 lynch. You are avoiding answering something really important. Or you are claiming you just made up the meta attack? I cant really follow all of your post. It seems like a scattershot of borderline claiming trust tells, self meta and frustration with ABR.

Y'know, this is funny, because even if you think my attitude suddenly shifted on a player between end of Day 2 and start of Day 3 - it's shockingly anti-town what you're doing and there are shockingly more obvious answers to your question than "Thor is derp scum with derp bus"
And I think you know this.
And that's why you're scum.



@Bulba - talk me through these waves of scum whom you must lynch. Just names with maybe a one liner for why they're scum would be a great starting point for me.

Also, though this toes the line of ongoing, it's not like I'm trying to lynch you everywhere. I've done anything but. I actually just got a nice chance to read you across multiple games, which I think helps my ability to read people (is it helping you with me? I always hope someone will someday prove capable of doing so because I'd just love to have the conversation - but I apparently remain pretty opaque for the most part...albeit, I'll admit I strive quite diligently to be so, but that's really a lot of the fun for the game when scum...the only fun, really.)

[Thor665]

And, actually, I suppose the vote count is correct, but only because InHim was the actual hammer.

[Thesp]

It is now past the hour, meaning that somewhere the date has become tomorrow.
Sheep?

Ha! Thinking about it, I'm less interested at the moment. I would consider it if the wagon were bigger, but I have no interest in further splitting wagons when the kabooooom wagon is tied for the largest (albeit at 3), and you're the only one on RainbowDash right now.

I'm not interested in a Thor665 lynch today. I still don't see Aegor as scum at all.

---

To emeraldemon, Bulbazak, and kabooooom (the current Aegor voters):

What would your second vote choice be?

[inHimshallibe]

Looking back through votes, Sotty gets to be town yay. She was on ABR and didn't jump to NS.

[Thor665]

Ha! Thinking about it, I'm less interested at the moment. I would consider it if the wagon were bigger, but I have no interest in further splitting wagons when the kabooooom wagon is tied for the largest (albeit at 3), and you're the only one on RainbowDash right now.

Besides maybe Chevre, no one who is not voting Aegor has expressed particular desire to lynch Aegor. Many of them have expressed town reads on Aegor. That wagon is dead and is too silly to notice it yet.

The Kabooom wagon currently has at least one person on it (Rainbow the scum) who is calling Kabooom possible town, and is toying around with voting me because I'm spotting how scummy she is.

Highshroomish is probably town so when he actually tries to explain the case he's agreeing with and realizes how it doesn't make sense I think his vote will be back in play, and probably even back in play and available for Rainbow.

A two vote wagon at this stage is pretty potent.
You have indicated possible belief in Kabooom town.
You are still voting a counterwagon to scum.
It is still near the start of the phase.

What the hell are you doing and thinking right now?

[inHimshallibe]

Vote Count 3.5

Albert B. Rampage (6) - Thor665, Sotty7, inHimshallibe, Aegor, HighShroomish, Zdenek

I like all of the above for town (yes, Aegor too), for now. Highest likelihood of bus imo is Thor, Aegor, HS, Sotty. It's a weird stance for me because I certainly think Thor is more town than Aegor, I give him more credit for being able to play this as a bussing scum, just based on his reputation as a good player.

kabooooom (3) - Albert B. Rampage, Rainbowdash, Chevre
Aegor (2) - emeraldemon, Bulbazak
Bulbazak (1) - Nero Cain

Not voting (3) - kabooooom, DisCode, Matias

Obviously I have my stance on Bulba, but I'd consider voting any of the above were we getting down to the wire.

Bulbazak
emeraldemon
Rbd
DisCode
Thesp
kab
Chevre
emogirl

Looks like my preferred order, yep.

[inHimshallibe]

Someone remind me why emerald is town. Or was it emogirl that everyone thought was town, in which case carry on.

[Thesp]

Ha! Thinking about it, I'm less interested at the moment. I would consider it if the wagon were bigger, but I have no interest in further splitting wagons when the kabooooom wagon is tied for the largest (albeit at 3), and you're the only one on RainbowDash right now.

Besides maybe Chevre, no one who is not voting Aegor has expressed particular desire to lynch Aegor. Many of them have expressed town reads on Aegor. That wagon is dead and is too silly to notice it yet.

The Kabooom wagon currently has at least one person on it (Rainbow the scum) who is calling Kabooom possible town, and is toying around with voting me because I'm spotting how scummy she is.

Highshroomish is probably town so when he actually tries to explain the case he's agreeing with and realizes how it doesn't make sense I think his vote will be back in play, and probably even back in play and available for Rainbow.

A two vote wagon at this stage is pretty potent.
You have indicated possible belief in Kabooom town.
You are still voting a counterwagon to scum.
It is still near the start of the phase.

What the hell are you doing and thinking right now?

I'm actually going to cite RainbowDash's thought process from last page here:

Im seriously mulling over just saying Thor is scum here and kab is town who is just generally lurky/useless. Always feels odd when you are convincing yourself you are wrong like this.

I don't agree with the content here, but I totally understand this sentiment, because I have been going back and forth like this for the entirety of my play here (several whole days!). I see players who are crazy-scummy, but see a few very strong town-tells that change my mind entirely. Then I wonder if they're really town-tells. Ad infinitum.

I still think there's a good chance kabooooom is scum. I have also acknowledged that kabooooom was an alternate wagon to scum, but I thought I'd explained how there's a good chance (especially in this particular style of game) why that's less disconcerting to me. That is to say, for it actually to be a

counterwagon

rather than the town running up two scum players, I'd have to have some realistic belief that scum are concertedly pushing kabooooom in place of ABR. The strongest possibility does indeed come in the form of RainbowDash, yet quixotically I think the robust strength which RainbowDash pushed makes it less likely it's scum-motivated.

Yes, I think both kabooooom and RainbowDash are decent possibilities for scum, and simultaneously I doubt they are scum together. I don't know what else I can say about that.

(As an aside, what do you mean "It is still near the start of the phase"?)

[Thor665]

That is to say, for it actually to be a

counterwagon

rather than the town running up two scum players, I'd have to have some realistic belief that scum are concertedly pushing kabooooom in place of ABR. The strongest possibility does indeed come in the form of RainbowDash, yet quixotically I think the robust strength which RainbowDash pushed makes it less likely it's scum-motivated.

Yes, I think both kabooooom and RainbowDash are decent possibilities for scum, and simultaneously I doubt they are scum together. I don't know what else I can say about that.

Code: Select all

[b]Unvote: Kabooom
Vote: Rainbowdash

?

(As an aside, what do you mean "It is still near the start of the phase"?)

We have like seven days - give me a couple of them if you "need the wagon to be bigger"
Hint: your vote move will help make it bigger in more ways than one.

Someone remind me why emerald is town. Or was it emogirl that everyone thought was town, in which case carry on.

I think they're both town.

My case on Emerald is one of those vague "look at his iso" type deals. I would state that he is clearly scumhunting, seems to ask pointed and reasonable questions, and draws conclusions that make logical sense off the answers he gets. He has expressed pro-town consideration, issued pro-town warnings, and encouraged pro-town activities.

Can you remind me why he's not town?
Because I am not only missing it, I've been missing it for multiple phases.
I don't see any case there at all.

[inHimshallibe]

Eh, emerald can be town, especially if Bulba's scum.

Thesp is worrying me, feels dodgy.

[emogirl123]

Thor, I don't like it when players undermine my reads. Especially when they are aware that my reads are correct. Rectify this please.

[Thor665]

I haven't read Day 1.

You should.

I won't.

So tell me the case that I won't read otherwise.

Heck, I'll accept a link too. I'm adaptable.

I may even be willing to do the legwork if you tell me which player made a good presentation of the case - though I may get snarky(er) over it.

Rectify this you talker in non-sequiturs you.

[Thor665]

Thor, I don't like it when players undermine my reads. Especially when they are aware that my reads are correct. Rectify this please.

Emogirl, I don't like it when players don't pay attention to the flow of a conversation. Especially when they should be aware that, in th econversation, I'm ruddy attempting to work with them. Rectify this please.

[emogirl123]

Here is my interpretation of what happened: I call you scum because you lead the most anti-town wagon of the day, you say that I'm flailing about and you don't wish to sheep me because of it, then you admit that you lead the most anti-town wagon of the day and state that there are scum voting for Aegor.

Am I missing anything?

[emogirl123]

I really think you should give me some recognition for stopping the

Aegor gambit

which you claim to have started, and immediately calling you scum for your vote. How you reached the conclusion that I was flailing for you starting this wagon, I assume was for the purposes of undermining my reads.

[emeraldemon]

Blar this thread moves so fast

That's not the only thing. There is a reason why Chevre was placed at L-1 on Day 1 which was lost.

What was that reason, I haven't read Day 1.

emogirl never answered this, but I will because Chevre is still on my scum list and I'm curious what people think.

Chevre's Day 1 vote on emogirl 311 made some people uncofortable. When Chevre started getting pressure he unvoted 387 in a way that made even more people (myself included) think scum. The biggest pusher on that wagon was probably Fonz[=Tebow], see 334 and 491.

[emeraldemon]

ABR's scumflip strongly suggests Bulbascum. I'll go into more detail when I don't have to clean before friends get here for the weekend.

inHim, I don't think you ever explained this. How does ABR's scumflip implicate Bulba?

I think this is about where I'm at right now:

TOWN
Thor655
Sotty7
HighShroomish
Discode
inHimshallibe
emogirl
Bulbazak
Rainbowdash
kabooom
Chevre
Aegor
SCUM

[Thor665]

Here is my interpretation of what happened: I call you scum because you lead the most anti-town wagon of the day, you say that I'm flailing about and you don't wish to sheep me because of it, then you admit that you lead the most anti-town wagon of the day and state that there are scum voting for Aegor.

Am I missing anything?

Well...yes. Or, rather maybe to be more explicit, you're adding a lot of things that have no justification to be added. Allow me to offer my tale of the tape;

Emo calls me scum because she doesn't like the Aegor wagon.
She then says that part of the reason it is bad is because I'm calling him scummy for self voting.
I never said that.
I call *that* flailing, because making up stuff is derpy and bad.
I note that people who make up things for their cases are not people I like to sheep.
I never denied leading a wagon on Aegor, I also disagree it was anti-town to do so.
Emo proves she doesn't understand what baiting is.
Emo continues to avoid discussing much, and also doesn't bother taking accountability onto herself for making up things I said, and actually indicates it's *my problem* for suggesting she is not the best case maker because of this.



So...yeah.

Would you kindly vote Rainbow now?

emogirl never answered this, but I will because Chevre is still on my scum list and I'm curious what people think.

Chevre's Day 1 vote on emogirl 311 made some people uncofortable. When Chevre started getting pressure he unvoted 387 in a way that made even more people (myself included) think scum. The biggest pusher on that wagon was probably Fonz[=Tebow], see 334 and 491.

The unvote was awkwardly justified and went nowhere. That's not a bad root for a case.
I had no issue with his initial vote, but that's basically meaningless to this point.

TOWN
Thor655
Sotty7
HighShroomish
Discode
inHimshallibe
emogirl
Bulbazak
Rainbowdash
kabooom
Chevre
Aegor
SCUM

Your Aegor read is probably bad, and certainly unwise for today.
The Emo read is okay as long as she is in a 'town' section of the list. I don't see justification for having her and Rainbow too close together though.

Why do you suspect both Kaboom (the counter) and Aegor (the flail beast) over Rainbow?
Can you talk me through the Aegor suspicion, specifically? I can sorta grok a Kaboom case at this juncture, I disagree with it, but I can grok it. But to be tearing after Aegor? What's the case? I don't recall anyone making one except for me, and I openly admitted mine was done with a limited perception to it, and wasn't good. So...where's the fire with him?

Also, could you look at what Rainbow did yesterday. I don't think that reads very clean considering what we know about ABR's alignment now.

[emogirl123]

She then says that part of the reason it is bad is because I'm calling him scummy for self voting.
I never said that.

Me neither. I said you are scum for starting a wagon on Aegor. I said people are voting for Aegor because of his attitude, and I am saying that you are scum because you are taking advantage of his attitude by throwing a case for him when I assumed you are better than that.

Thor is also scum.

The secret to this read is the way Thor is handling Bulba v Aegor. I view certain players as more capable than others based on their meta and Thor has disappointed me greatly with his choices here. Of course this is very unconventional or most would call bullshit. Doesn't change Thor being scum.

I never made a direct reference to your case. Read my posts again. I voted you because you voted Aegor, plain and simple.

[emogirl123]

I'm kind of busy tonight, so let's talk about this tomorrow.