NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Sotty7]

Really I just have this feeling that the last scum is in the group who is saying "its the ones that didn't bus" and if that's the case get some serious conversation on which of them (by them it means which of Sotty/Thor) played the bus card.

Yeah, I haven't said that. I don't think Thor really has either.

[HighShroomish]

I think what he meant was the ones who were saying "but I was on the scum wagons! There is no way scum would do that!"

[Sotty7]

@sotty
When Chevre came under pressure early day 1 for his vote, he chickened out and unvoted in a way I thought was suspicious (387, see my post 2145).
Chevre's early game had multiple big walls that felt like IioA to me (e.g. 1118).
Bulba actively fought against Chevre being lynched (1995, 2128, 2157), even though there wasn't much of a wagon on him at that time.
emogirl's NK may not mean anything, but it may mean PJ/Chevre was nervous.
PJ's first post on joining the game and rereading was to FoS people on Chevre's [his] first wagon (2204). That one may mean nothing, but it bugs me.
I disagree with PJ's no-kill logic and think it might be scum looking to stall for night.

I intentionally ended my post with a question because I wanted people to answer it. So sotty, what is your read on PJ/Chevre?

Thanks for this.

I agree very much with the IIOA, some of your other points not so much. I'm pretty sure emo was killed for being super active town and the bulb defending, it's weak but I can maybe see it. I will agree that PJ's opening into the game was very poor and it made me much more open to his wagon especially after he went back and forth with his supposedly town emo read. I felt he was stalling for time when we were so close to the deadline, it was pretty pointless. I voted for Chevre after his terrible emo vote and I still don't like it looking back.

I am still torn a little between him and Thesp. Thesp still pushing on Kab is almost mindnumbing. I get it he is bad and we had the badness but there seem to be no arguments for why he is scum, at least nothing I have seen. What's your read on Thesp?

[Sotty7]

I think what he meant was the ones who were saying "but I was on the scum wagons! There is no way scum would do that!"

Well we weren't saying that either. I was bristling against Thor calling me useless when I haven't been. Our argument was him strictly telling me to pull my socks up and me saying "well I have limited time but I was on both scum wagons what more do you want me to do?"

Nobody used that against anyone else as a form of a scum push which is what Rainbow is claiming happened. AKA when she says:

Really I just have this feeling that the last scum is in the group who is saying "its the ones that didn't bus"

With me and Thor that never happened

[Thor665]

I will admit I frankly take PJs last post as a scum claim.

[Sotty7]

There's also a point where Brian Skies and Slandaar are big wagons with ~2 days to go. ABR moves from Slandaar to emeraldemon, which implies to me he doesn't care which of Slandaar and Brian Skies gets lynched.

This is actually a really good point and I forgot this happened. I went back and looked at emeraldemon's point in defense of the Thesp player slot in post 2348 and it got me reading back over some of the first day. It does look very much like ABR is just jumping around trying to secure any lynch that isn't his when Slandaar starts to pick him apart. He looks like he is panicking which would mean I am barking up the wrong tree with emeralemon.

[Sotty7]

I will admit I frankly take PJs last post as a scum claim.

The discouraging post or the real post before that?

[Thor665]

Actually in my infinite brilliance I read RBD's post and then applied to to PJ, so to go from a "reading and trying to provide content" to providing what RBD did with commentary about lynching PJ or Thesp...it read really bad.
I'm sleep deprived.
Ignore me!

[Rainbowdash]

Really I just have this feeling that the last scum is in the group who is saying "its the ones that didn't bus" and if that's the case get some serious conversation on which of them (by them it means which of Sotty/Thor) played the bus card.

Yeah, I haven't said that. I don't think Thor really has either.

Both of you are saying its one of me, PJ and Thesp.

We are the only three alive who didn't vote ABR (and Bulb also didn't)
PJ and I did not vote Bulb, Thesp deadline hammered him

Its pretty obvious none of us were a part of the wagons. So yes, that is exactly what you are doing. Even if you are avoiding actually saying it. Its not like you don't realize you are avoiding saying it.

Do you think zero scum voted ABR? And no scum voted Bulb until, at most, the hammer from Thesp?

[Thor665]

I can honestly say I didn't even consider it.

You also apparently think no one bussed ABR and that if any bussing happened on Bulba it was done last minute. So it's not like you're coming that far out of left field compared to us. Why do you find our stance unusual then?

[Thor665]

So yes, that is exactly what you are doing. Even if you are avoiding actually saying it.

And this is obviouslly silly, because by your vote you're indicating that both of us could be town, and even if your reads are 100% at least one of us is town - so at least one town player is "avoiding saying it?"



But, yeah, the serious question is above.

[Rainbowdash]

You also apparently think no one bussed ABR and that if any bussing happened on Bulba it was done last minute. So it's not like you're coming that far out of left field compared to us. Why do you find our stance unusual then?

Actually I have the group of Thesp/Thor/Sotty/PJ as pretty tight as to who I think is most likely scum. Really I would zero problem with a Thor or Sotty lynch today at all. You two are completely ignoring any other player though, to a point that overly concerns me. It feel more of a goal oriented than logic oriented approach to lynching, which is frustrating because one of you have to be town here. Only reason I am voting Thesp is that he was on Bulb until my wagon took off where he bailed before the resigned return mixed with I know its going to be pointless to try and argue that you or Sotty is scum today. Feels a lot like scum who was bussing then suddenly saw a chance for a deadline mislynch. He is probably the slightest of leads over the other three for who I think is scum (something like 30-20-20-20 breakdown with whats left getting broken down between the last players)

While I want to get players who I think will be around late if needed to start thinking about it, I know now is not the time and place to try and push the game in a new direction.

[Thor665]

What's your Sotty case?

Also, how does your Thesp case work in relation to Emerald's 'Garmr wuz town' case discussed by me and him and later re-hashed when I made a town case for Emerald?

[Huntress]

Vote Count 5.3

petroleumjelly (4) - Thor665, emeraldemon, kabooooom, Aegor
Thesp (2) - inHimshallibe, Rainbowdash
Aegor (1) - HighShroomish
Rainbowdash (1) - Thesp

Not voting (2) - petroleumjelly, Sotty7

With ten players alive, it takes six votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Five is Monday, 14th April 20.00 BST, (in (expired on 2014-04-14 19:00:00)).

[kabooooom]

HS, i don't think anyone's going to vote aegor. You meet to vote from those wagon formed!

[kabooooom]

Need*

[Aegor]

Only reason I am voting Thesp is that he was on Bulb until my wagon took off where he bailed before the resigned return mixed with I know its going to be pointless to try and argue that you or Sotty is scum today

That was really questionable, and he only ever explained that switch after harshly pressed by me this game day. Reviewing Garmr, he is meh and he had a really bad non-case against me early on.

Still want to lynch PJ. Would be fine with Thesp lynch. HS also needs to die.

[Sotty7]

I can honestly say I didn't even consider it.

You also apparently think no one bussed ABR and that if any bussing happened on Bulba it was done last minute. So it's not like you're coming that far out of left field compared to us. Why do you find our stance unusual then?

I also hadn't consider it either. Which is why I hadn't brought it up. I don't really want to say either way that no scum would never buss or would buss because it could happen either way. I'm looking more at behavior than voting record because I don't want to get caught in a trap of my own making.

Ignoring every other player? Are you even reading today because that is blatantly not true.

[Thesp]

Thesp still pushing on Kab is almost mindnumbing. I get it he is bad and we had the badness but there seem to be no arguments for why he is scum, at least nothing I have seen.

I am getting a bit numb from repeating it. See quotes in spoiler.

Spoiler: Thesp's arguments on kabooooom

In my readthrough when I hit kabooooom's Post 1751, I immediately thought "kabooooom is lurkerscum. Holy crap.". His activity has been sparse and only seems to pop up to look useful rather than to be useful. Even his ABR vote was crap and forced. I wasn't comfortable with how he requested the modkill on DisCode for inactivity (which came across differently than Aegor's did). He's got all the hallmarks of scum who got kicked in the pants overnight to post more. (I'm hesitant to even bring that up, because I

don't

want to disincentivize activity. The particular nature of this uptick feels like this to me, though.)

I don't think it's out of the question that both wagons were on scum. In a game like this where we've almost certainly got fewer scum around (the total number bandied about has been 3, which seems reasonable to me), and there's not a lot of scum that can push a "counter-wagon" to try to divert a scum lynch. Heck, ABR and kabooooom vote for each other, and here is the most they say about each other all Day 3:

ABR and kabooooom Day 3 commentary on each other, unabridged

Vote: kabooooom

^Why kab is a better lynch than ABR, although both are acceptable.

and how is that post the reason i m a better lynch then ABR?

vote:ABR

Neither are super-eager to push any sort of pressure on the other. If they are both scum (which seems reasonably possible), they either both have to push another case (possibly even together?) to create a viable "counter-wagon". With only probably one other scumbuddy out there (who probably really wants to keep their hands clean of all of it), that doesn't give them a lot of chance of diverting the wagons. Can you imagine the storm that would pop up if the two leading wagonees both voted for someone else,

especially

if at least one of those wagonees turns out to be scum?

I think there's a reasonable chance that the majority of players (most of whom are town) were right about both wagons yesterday. If this weren't an all-vanilla setup, I might be less sure of that.

Is there anyone who thinks kabooooom is town? Someone give me any reason, any reason at all to think he's town. There are so many players who have given me reasons to think they are town, many of whom have semi-wagons on them right now. Yet kabooooom has given me no reasons to think he's town, and has given several reasons to think he's scum. The apathy towards him is mind-numbing, and enables his play. Yeesh.

VCA Findings:

• kab on both scum wagons and neither town wagon. Towncred, unless one posits that he is newbscum who overvalues bussing and not being on mislynches.

I think the timing and nature of his votes are incredibly suspect. I'd check them in context, and I'd be curious to hear what you think of them there.

kabooooom

:
There is nothing he has done which has been useful, and his votes have generally been bad. He lurks until his name is called, and he's all over the map. He plays when and how it's convenient, and nothing more. He needs to die.

On thop of

that

, I can come up with

at least

one reason for every player in the game as to why they might be town,

except

for kabooooom. I don't understand the resistance to even pondering him as scum. Now you're welcome to disagree with me that these points are scummy, but to say no reasons have been presented is forgetful at best, and disingenuous at worst.

---

Only reason I am voting Thesp is that he was on Bulb until my wagon took off where he bailed before the resigned return mixed with I know its going to be pointless to try and argue that you or Sotty is scum today

That was really questionable, and he only ever explained that switch after harshly pressed by me this game day. Reviewing Garmr, he is meh and he had a really bad non-case against me early on.

Still want to lynch PJ. Would be fine with Thesp lynch. HS also needs to die.

I thought I was pretty clear throughout all of yesterday that I wanted to make sure there was a lynch, and that Bulbazak was 4th on the list of people I wanted to lynch (and RainbowDash was 3rd). Was that unclear? I do agree that my vote lynching Bulbazak nets me zero towncred.

---

RainbowDash & inHimshallibe, do you think Bulbazak was bussing Garmr throughout the game? They butted heads on a number of occasions, and based on context clues, Bulbazak seems to have given a pretty voluminous case on why he thought Garmr was scum (in the posts that were eaten in the great OM NO of '014).

[Thesp]

And HighShroomish, can you explain the Aegor vote? It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[Thor665]

And now that you have?

I thought your answer was useful in ascertaining you better. (Sorry if I don't have anything big and grand for you on this point.)

So did it look organic or not to you, and also do you think it makes him look town or not?

[Thesp]

And now that you have?

I thought your answer was useful in ascertaining you better. (Sorry if I don't have anything big and grand for you on this point.)

So did it look organic or not to you, and also do you think it makes him look town or not?

Sorry I missed your inquiry. I didn't think it looked organic in my re-read yesterday, but I haven't gone back and read it with the lens you suggested. (If it came down to needing to decide on voting for him, I would, but we're a long ways from that.) I wasn't convinced that the ABR vote made him look town because I

didn't

feel organic, but he really pushed hard on Bulbazak, and coupled with that, makes him off the table for a vote from me anytime soon.

[Thor665]

Why doesn't it feel organic to you?

[Thesp]

Why doesn't it feel organic to you?

He defended ABR pretty hard throughout D1 & D2, and defends ABR in post 1579 & 1580 opening on D3. Pushes Bulbazak and casts doubt on Sotty7 in 1581 (specifically for voting ABR and pushing someone else). Votes ABR in next post on 1617 with no explanation.

...however...

In researching this post, I just noticed that in between 1581 and 1617 is the Great OM NOM of '014. So, inHimshallibe may have had some further discussion I'm not privy to in those lost posts. So, his shift may entirely have been organic. Nevermind on my part - I don't think there's a lot I can learn on that at all now.

(Again, inHimshallibe is not on the table anytime soon, as he was pushing pretty hard on Bulbazak too before it was cool.)

[Thor665]

I really feel like all of your commentary shouldn't just be taking him off the table "anytime soon" but rather simply off the table.
Listen to yourself - you're saying he was hard defending ABR...and then quick reversed suddenly?

Like...seriously, what do you think his scum plan was there? "Have to defend ABR, must protect him, watch as I crush Thor's case...oh, Thor has a case? IMMEDIATE BUS!"
I don't even understand the motivation you're pegging him with here.
Clarify?