NY 168: (GAME OVER) The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:

May not read all of game thoroughly, but probably will skim. Any hot topics or highlights lists would be welcome and appreciated.

[Aegor]

Just finished reading this trainwreck of a game.

Also, skipped over mastin's name in the dead list. If he were alive I would be pursuing her with the fiery anger of a thousand burning suns.

Not seeing any reason not to lynch Rach. Her entire posting is meh.

VOTE: Rach

Spoiler: Random posts

I really would prefer to lynch scum over a village idiot. But I doubt I'm going to get my way today.

LOL. As soon as Zek flipped Garmr was confscum based on this post alone.

I have a lot to say, especially to Mastin, but there's another major reveal coming, and I promised to hold off. I plan on voting for Pacman, though.

Did I miss something? I cannot even remember what this reveal was.

ICE 4 LIFE BITCHES

LOL

vote: Slandaar

either is fine.

vote: JKLM

This wouldn't be so bad by itself.

Fire:
Maxous
Slandaar
JKLM

Ice:
Yiley
aptil
????

Aptil is cleared of Ice-scum.

Garmr is doing the Lord's work in 581, I'm glad we see the same relationship between Maxous and JKLM. do you have an idea of teams yet? and how do you feel about Slandaar?

As is Garmr.

vote: Slandaar

woah deja vu

vote: JKLM

What the fuck is this?

vote: Desperado

This is significant, somehow, I think.

Unvote

I'm loath just to clear him on this, I guess.

Vote: Slandaar

Spoiler: Rach

No I am still trying to peg peeps in this game I dont play in a lot of large games, and it always takes me a while to figure everyone out, especially since this is multiball that makes it even more complicated.

Your post makes ZERO sense Aptil and clearly you have no clue how to read me.

Clearly you are going after low hanging fruit duh...

I think Aptil is scum. Not sure if he is hot or cold just feel he is scum.

He is going for low hanging fruit

, doing exactly what he is accusing me of, and he is less active than I am and that takes some doing with all the issues I have been dealing with.

Look at how they both jumped on me no cases no real reasons just oh she is a

low hanging fruit

and VLA then sick.

That was to Slaan.

Yes the push seems a bit overkill by Des, but my experience in playing with him is he tends to tunnel hard and often does not want to give up tunneling. So that in itself is not enough to say Des is for sure scum. Need more reasons.

Bulb I know its not super helpful and I am sorry about that but I am still playing catchup in this game.

"Don't lynch Desp! Because your reasons are not good! I know that is not helpful but believe me!"

I have some doubts about Pere too this is feeling much like scum Pere in Doctor Who.

Vote: RachMarie

I just feel underwhelmed by everything she's done in general. Plus I gotta vote somewhere that might get lynched in the next day before deadline (assuming no extension due to aptil's replacement).

Tru' 'dat.

Then push that tomorrow Bulb we do not have time and a NL is bad juju. ESPECIALLY with two potential kills a night.

Town

TSO
Bulb
PA
Slaan


Scum

Des (light read)

Pere
Aptil

That seems like an extraordinarily nice place for a scumbuddy to be placed.

I have Slaan as a town read could someone please explain their scum read on him?

However I still think Aptil and Pere are scum. Since we are waiting for Aptil's replacement,

VOTE: Pere

I been scum reading pere for ages I think his Ice scum.

What do you think now, specifically?

Looked at Desp's wagon. If someone was bussing, it was Rach.

But it seems odd that he naked voted Rach in retaliation.

Ugh.

Why would that seem odd at all?

I have a stronger scum read on Pere and Zek, however because I do have a light scum read on NJAC, I would be willing to switch to him if we get close to deadline.

Read on Pere now?

crap we are in

LYLO

One fire and One ice most likely left.

I have a town read on TSO and Bulb

Which means I think the remaining scum is Pere and NJAC.

BTW I am just a VT bleah

so we have only one ice scum left? whew so not in LYLO

Yeah, I am so glad that you do not have to pretend to be freaked out anymore.

meh then probably I am wrong about Pere

I thought he was fire scum.

NJAC seems more icy to me

VOTE: NJAC

How does this make any sense? The pairings are 2 Fire and 4 Ice? With no PRs for the Fire?

[Aegor]

Anyone who attacks you is scum? That is what it sounds like.

his case on me is misreps and about the fact I stated I am low hanging fruit, which is something anyone who knows me knows is true.

What misreps? And I find it hard to believe you are low-hanging fruit in this game when you replaced ArcAngel on Day 1 and it is now Day 6.

And clearly he is picking me because I voted him.

Talk about a misrep.


Bulba and TSO are conftown for the moment as far as I am concerned, but Garmr was scum and I would rather clarify again.

@Mod: Do both scum teams have the same roles?

[Aegor]

@Bulba:

Misrep. I do not like people calling themselves lynchbait, but that is not the most substantial reason for voting her. First, POE basically restricts the lynch pool to myself, Pere, and Rach. Second, she would be a fire maf in all likelyhood, which means her accurate push on aptil is irrelevant. Third, her reaction to the Desp lynch was just plain bad. Fourth, I have not read the entire thread that closely so I apologize if I missed something.

And that makes her not low-hanging fruit how?

If she were actually low-hanging fruit she would be dead by definition. Unless our definitions differ.

This is a useless question, only meant to make it look as if you're trying to figure things out. Garmr has already stated that both teams are all vanilla. We have no reason to doubt him, because he was throwing the game at the time. This means that he would have been completely truthful in everything he was saying.

I agree that he could have been truthful. Why not mod-confirm it? I already said I consider you both confirmed town. Why would you not rather actually be confirmed town?

[Aegor]

So what are you waiting for; hammer me? The only possible scum are Rach, Pere, and I, as far as I can tell. Unless you can neighborize scum, but Bulba's posting as been consistently awesome.

So this game is simply a matter of deciding which one of the three of us is not scum and lynching the other two.

[Aegor]

Great. So one of Pere and I is scum. Game solved.

And an easily-fakable death post should be a null tell. I do it every single game as scum and town. Not providing one is basically a scumclaim unless the player is pissed-off town. I mean, I have no problem dying today, but Rach really should be lynched tomorrow.

[Aegor]

When I was reading through the game, I found his posts informative, incisive, and insightful. I must admit great personal bias given his strong attack on mastin, whom I expecting to flip scum given how terrible her posts were.

Are you suggesting we cast our nets wider?

[Aegor]

Bulba was the first on the Desp lynch wagon. That is some hardcore bussing right there. Other VC analysis on him is inconclusive. I am really not seeing it.

[Aegor]

I am not qualified to say. You are more than welcome to link to past games you would find useful. But he did start the Desp wagon and pressed Desp for trying to lynch Toomai before anyone else did. I mean, his interactions with Desp speak for themselves. Again, I see nothing that causes me to believe Bulba is scum even for a second. Also noteworthy is this exchange:

Back and not much to change this. Would also vote Desp.

Back and not much to change this. Would also vote Desp.

Then why don't you?

[Aegor]

VT

You

did

call her suspicious for saying she was low-hanging fruit. How am I misrepping you? Was that not a point against her?

No, I did not. You are more than welcome to quote

an explicit statement of mine

if you feel differently; I will concede then.

Low-hanging fruit are easy targets for a mislynch. That does not necessarily mean that they

will

be mislynched.

If scum consistently refuses to push a mislynch on low-hanging fruit, it seems that the fruit is not so low-hanging after all. In this case, potentiality need become reality for the definition of low-hanging to be fulfilled, otherwise we are simply making theoretical statements about how difficult it would be to lynch someone who is never actually lynched.

Common sense tells us we're looking at even scum teams. Simple setup spec tells us we're likely looking at a low power game, meaning all vanilla teams. Also, this is a question that the mod will

never answer

. It's only purpose is to make you look good by asking it. Also, what's with the conf. town question? It almost sounds threatening. Also, as TSO said, I'm not conf. town.

This line of questioning is simply over if your only argument is to a motivation that only I know. I was simply confused about how Garmr could be completely 100% certain that the neighborizer is town. And that question clearly did not make me look good, and although I am a terrible player, surely you are not claiming that I am so naïve as to believe that asking such a question will gain me any towncred at all.

[Aegor]

Oh, that's right. You didn't

say

it. You implied it. With emotes. That way when someone called you out, you could say, "I never

said

that. Misrep!", because calling misrep makes you look like a victim, and therefore, townier.

That is complete BS. I am sorry that you are incapable of restricting your reading to what is posted, but that is not my problem. Surely I can comment on something without it being a reason to think someone is town or scum.

I never said that scum refuse to push such a mislynch.

Until they do, it makes no sense to label something low-hanging fruit. The fact that it is low-hanging can only be validated

ex post facto

.

What happens in the case of low-hanging fruit not being lynched is that some town players noticed what was going on and called the lynch out for what it was. You never see a claim that X is low-hanging fruit after the fact, only during the push. If the term was only reserved for those who got lynched, this wouldn't be the case.

Players did not; Rach stated it several times. Anyway, this discussion is inane and semantic and no longer helpful IMO, having revealed everything it is going to.
And yet Rach claimed that she was low-hanging fruit

[Aegor]

Which is immaterial because that scum was Ice and the remaining scum is almost certainly Fire. What am I missing, again?

[Aegor]

So you're just dismissing all low-hanging fruit discussions, because it's multiball? "Well, it doesn't count because there are 2 scum teams." How does that negate the scum tell? If that slot was still alive, and we were trying to figure out who was scum, would you still dismiss the low-hanging fruit argument because of multiball? What other arguments would you dismiss? Should we even bother scumhunting as usual, or is it a moot point because of "multiball"?

What the fuck are you talking about? The fact that the case on Rach came from scum is irrelevant

because the other faction has an incentive to lynch scum, too

. Going after low-hanging fruit is not a scumtell to me, and even if it were, it STILL does not apply here because the both factions are trying to KILL EACH OTHER.

That is such a huge straw man I just cannot even understand what you are doing. I never said that Rach was scum because she labeled herself low-hanging fruit. Never once did I even suggest that argument. And the fact that the person pushing for her lynch was scum is irrelevant because it is a multiball game. If you can demonstrate that aptil thought that Rach was town and not scum, go right ahead. I will concede. But unless you can do that, the fact that a scumball from the

other team, the win condition of which requires the extermination of all opposing scum

, was the one pushing her lynch is irrelevant to me.

[Aegor]

Well, that was sad.

I recommend that we discuss, post reads, post recommendations for lynching, and then No Lynch and decide tomorrow.

[Aegor]

We should lynch today. No lynching is not going to change anything. I'll be dead, and town will be left with Rach, PV, and yourself. There's no reason to drag this out to a day when there will be the same decision with 1 less person.

I think you assume your death at night too easily. I am not strongly opposed to lynching today, but I am not assuming you will be the NK either.

[Aegor]

i.e. there may actually be information acquired via the NK.

[Aegor]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Aegor]

Right, but if we do all the discussion today and come to a consensus, we can just act on that consensus tomorrow. You have no guarantee that you will die tonight. And even if you do, you will have posted your reads and would-be vote. Unless you are worried that the scum will somehow manipulate himself out of a planned lynch tomorrow, or you have more nefarious motives for pushing a lynch with as many players in the game as possible.

[Aegor]

Rach and Pere for me, Rach marginally more likely than Pere.

[Aegor]

Anything else to discuss today? Or should we NL? Or just lynch me? I do not really care at this point, tbh.

[Aegor]

V/LA until the end of the weekend

[Aegor]

What kind of nonsense is this? T S O had a townread on PV, therefore I must be scum?

[Aegor]

That is not how it works.

[Aegor]

Are we even playing the same games? Or are you in a parallel universe where you are compelled to view literally everything I ever do as scummy, no matter how divorced from this reality your perceptions are?

[Aegor]

This is funny coming from the guy who said he didn't care if he got lynched.

I really do not. I do, however, want to be lynched with dignity, which would include being lynched for non-ridiculous reasons. Is that too much to ask?

Yet, you get 1 vote on you, and you suddenly pop back in the thread and freak out

I did not freak out. Why are you such a pathological liar?

and try to cast doubt on PV.

I am not casting doubt on PV. I am simply saying that he is not conftown. How are those two things the same in your mind?

Were our suspicions really that surprising to you, even though we stated them earlier on the same page?

No, which is why I was not surprised.

Or is it now that there is a vote on you, the prospect of you losing is so much more real?

IDC. I replaced into this game very late. I lose regardless of alignment if I am lynched today, so I think you three should just make a decision already. Just do not base that decision on an erroneous understanding of the roles. That being said, I would recommend lynching scum, not me. And I am still in favor of a no lynch.

[Aegor]

Rach, there is no need. The Wiki on Neighborizer is here. The role by definition does not involve guarantee of alignment, otherwise it is a Masonizer or some such. You are more than welcome to ask the mod for clarification if you are still uncertain.

[Aegor]

Out of curiosity, is that purely PoE, or do you have some affirmative reason for thinking my slot scum?

[Aegor]

...

[Aegor]

Re-reading

[Aegor]

Slowly. May not get back to it today. May end up skimming or just ISOing you two.

I hope I am not the only one doing anything.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Bulbazak

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:

[Aegor]

Will explain tomorrow when I actually post. I have been ignoring this game due to length-induced paralysis.

Mod: I am fine with the new deadline

[Aegor]

IDK about my vote-unvote; I was playing my wildcard and hoping for some reactions after the unvote. Then I realized that it was a terrible idea in every way. And I did not even get any reaction, so it was a total bust.

Anyway, Rach kill makes no sense to me when Bulba was available, but whatever. Analysis is pointless.

I am still leaning Pere. His vote on Desp in 1081 is not particularly impressive, and his follow-up on Rach is bizarrely slow. Any elucidation on that from him would be helpful.

I was suspected by everyone yesterday, so I am happy to address anything or answer questions. I obviously cannot answer for NJAC.

[Aegor]

Bulba has posted elsewhere, so PV is confscum for me.

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Aegor]

GG PV

[Aegor]

I didn't. I did not kill anyone because I am not scum.

[Aegor]

I didn't. I did not kill anyone because I am not scum.

Well, you're lynched and Bulba said he's not scum. And I'm not.

@Bulba-

why the trolling? If not, then

Aegor

, why the trolling?

PV

, why the trolling?

[Aegor]

I am still definitely town.

[Aegor]

Sorry Fire team. I know my NK was unorthodox, but after my case on Rach did not really gain any steam, and after Bulba insisted he would be NKed, I decided to take a risk. I guess I miscalculated how much PV actually suspected Rach.

[Aegor]

If I am understanding you correct, then my original assessment was right. I discerned that swinging a lynch on Rach with you, she, and I in lylo would be difficult given NJAC's history, so I tried to take advantage of the WIFOm of Bulb surviving. Killing you would ahve made no sense because Bulb was not going to vote for Rach anyway and Rach rightly thought I was off.

[Aegor]

If I am understanding you correct, then my original assessment was right. I discerned that swinging a lynch on Rach with you, she, and I in lylo would be difficult given NJAC's history, so I tried to take advantage of the WIFOm of Bulb surviving. Killing you would ahve made no sense because Bulb was not going to vote for Rach anyway and Rach rightly thought I was off.

It almost worked.

I know. Bummer. It was a bit hard to influence the game when I replaced in so late...